Chicago's gun ban is doing great at stopping gun violence

[onwebcam]

Chicago reaches 500 homicides with fatal shooting

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-reache...145951769.html

The criminals sure a scared of the law and putting down their guns.

[StickyGreen]

[sandman!]

[tobe87]

That's why I moved!

[L-Pink]

And Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

[sandman!]

not for long

courts already thru out the concealed weapons ban gave the state 6 months to redo shit.

technically right now anyone can carry in IL

since you cant get arrested based on a law thats been overturned

Originally Posted by L-Pink

And Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation.

[acrylix]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Chicago reaches 500 homicides with fatal shooting

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-reache...145951769.html

The criminals sure a scared of the law and putting down their guns.

As I said in another thread:

Even factoring in that guns laws are less tight in surrounding states, you still might expect the strict Illinois, and even stricter Chicago laws, to at least put a damper on the murder rate there. Yet they hit 500 homicides this year.

A shining example of success which the rest of the country should follow?

[Phoenix]

surely gun laws are not the reason for such violence...how can you seriously post that?

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

surely gun laws are not the reason for such violence...how can you seriously post that?

Because gun laws aren't stopping it.

[AdultPornMasta]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Chicago reaches 500 homicides with fatal shooting

http://news.yahoo.com/chicago-reache...145951769.html

The criminals sure a scared of the law and putting down their guns.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by StickyGreen

good motto, bad picture

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

surely gun laws are not the reason for such violence...how can you seriously post that?

500 gun deaths DESPITE a strict gun policy was his point. Laws don't stop criminals.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

500 gun deaths DESPITE a strict gun policy was his point. Laws don't stop criminals.

yes im aware...but pointing fingers back and forth across the aisle wont solve it.

the reason there is such violence is surely a societal issue and not whether or not there are laws revolving around guns.

[brassmonkey]

its not the guns! its family structure!

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

the reason there is such violence is surely a societal issue and not whether or not there are laws revolving around guns.

? Exactly, well stated.

.

[Voodoo]

You can't regulate criminals with laws.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Because gun laws aren't stopping it.

great thinking!

Homicides in Chicago
1990-2012
1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 433
2012: 500(to date) and that isn't just guns BTW, homicide actually doesn't mean 'killed with gun' just so you know for future reference

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

500 gun deaths DESPITE a strict gun policy was his point. Laws don't stop criminals.

not gun deaths... deaths from homicide.. big difference

[Rochard]

I love playing with the numbers!

Oh my god, five hundred homicides! How horrible is that?

But... Crime is down?

The city's homicide toll has made headlines around the world, a fact that is proving a challenge to Mayor Rahm Emanuel. The total, however is nowhere near the record 790 recorded in 1974.

Emanuel said he's proud of milestones the police department has achieved toward cutting the crime rate.

Crime is down 9 percent overall, the largest drop on record, he said. Emanuel noted the city has torn down 200 buildings in a campaign to eliminate hangouts for criminals. He added that crime this month dropped 30 percent from 2011, one of the biggest declines on record.

The city's homicide rate has been declining for about two decades. In the early 1990s, Chicago recorded 900 homicides a year. Since 2004, the rate has been lower than 500 every year except 2008.

Compared to other major U.S. cities, Chicago's homicide rate is still high, the Chicago Tribune reported.

New York, which has more than twice the Chicago population, had 339 homicides through Oct. 21, a drop of nearly 20 percent from a year ago. Los Angeles reported 238 homicides through Oct. 20, a dip of 1 percent.

(source)

So let me see if I understand this correctly... Homicides are down from a high of 900 a year to 500 a year (and less) due to gun laws. So gun laws do work!

[Tom_PM]

It is funny how some people consistently cry that guns are not the problem with gun violence, and then when there's high instances of gun violence they claim the gun laws are useless. I thought guns weren't the problem anyway? If you tried sticking to your argument you might make some headway bro's.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I love playing with the numbers!

Oh my god, five hundred homicides! How horrible is that?

But... Crime is down?


(source)

So let me see if I understand this correctly... Homicides are down from a high of 900 a year to 500 a year (and less) due to gun laws. So gun laws do work!

what's the evidence that's it's gun laws? could tougher prison sentences. that will drop crime rates as well.

[TrustedJ]

Looking at the numbers, I would say that the gun laws work. Assuming that there aren't other factors involved.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

what's the evidence that's it's gun laws? could tougher prison sentences. that will drop crime rates as well.

This is a thread fail. "Chicago has strict gun laws and has 500 homicides" but the truth is over all crime is on a downward trend in Chicago. Homicides have gone down from a high point of 943 per year, compared to 500 this year. Seems to be working to me.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

what's the evidence that's it's gun laws? could tougher prison sentences. that will drop crime rates as well.

Not to mention the mob running/killing things back in those days. Still do pretty much just not out in the open as then.

[BIGTYMER]

Who cares about 500 gangbangers? Let them kill each other.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is a thread fail. "Chicago has strict gun laws and has 500 homicides" but the truth is over all crime is on a downward trend in Chicago. Homicides have gone down from a high point of 943 per year, compared to 500 this year. Seems to be working to me.

because its false hope. just like the tsa bullshit

[scottybuzz]

lol

@

thread fail

[BIGTYMER]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

great thinking!

Homicides in Chicago
1990-2012
1990: 851
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 855
1994: 931
1995: 828
1996: 796
1997: 761
1998: 704
1999: 643
2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 433
2012: 500(to date) and that isn't just guns BTW, homicide actually doesn't mean 'killed with gun' just so you know for future reference

[k0nr4d]

I'm interested in hearing a rebuttle for this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

I'm in Poland, which has very strict gun control. You have to pass psychological exams, when applying for a license you have to give reason you want it (if it's self defense, you need a letter from the police that your life is realistictally in danger IE you are a mafia informant or something to that effect), etc. All in all it's hard as fuck. As you can see on this chart the firearm murder rate is 0.02 murders per 100000 people per year. Now remember, Poland was a battleground during WW2 as you could imagine there was quite alot of guns here over the years. Hell, they found a 500kg bomb a couple of hundred meters from my house.

In the US, the firearm murder rate is 3.7 murders per 100k people per year.

So based on this - one could arrive at the conclusion that since guns are saving lives in the states according to the gun supporters, the US has 185x the murderers that Poland does per capita? That sounds like a *TERRIBLE* place to live.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by BIGTYMER

pls put a population graph against that if you want a better idea of the TRUTH

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

I'm interested in hearing a rebuttle for this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

I'm in Poland, which has very strict gun control. You have to pass psychological exams, when applying for a license you have to give reason you want it (if it's self defense, you need a letter from the police that your life is realistictally in danger IE you are a mafia informant or something to that effect), etc. All in all it's hard as fuck. As you can see on this chart the firearm murder rate is 0.02 murders per 100000 people per year. Now remember, Poland was a battleground during WW2 as you could imagine there was quite alot of guns here over the years. Hell, they found a 500kg bomb a couple of hundred meters from my house.

In the US, the firearm murder rate is 3.7 murders per 100k people per year.

So based on this - one could arrive at the conclusion that since guns are saving lives in the states according to the gun supporters, the US has 185x the murderers that Poland does per capita? That sounds like a *TERRIBLE* place to live.

one of the reasons for that is a history of 'overthrowing the government and starting wars' in east euro that really hasn't happened in the USA so the gov here has been a lot more liberal on guns ownership + many or the US concepts of guns are from a time when there was much open territory.

for instance my great grandfather had to wear a gun in the field while plowing and tending animals. and a large amount of those gun killings are 'minority's' that we as American's are not allowed to mention, in fact I would say most of the gun murders are in fact just that.

"For example, San Mateo County, California had a population of approximately 707,000 and 17 homicides in 2001. Six of these 17 homicides took place in poor East Palo Alto, which had a population of roughly 30,000. So, while East Palo Alto accounted for a mere 4.2% of the population, about one-third of the homicides took place there."

here is this I found:

Poland’s murder rate one of lowest in EU

With 1.29 murders per 100,000 people Poland has one of the lowest homicide rate in the European Union, according to the Eurostat statistical office.

---this is a bit different than 0.02 per 100,000 that you have put up

Lithuania is the murder center of the EU, with nine homicides yearly for every 100,000 inhabitants, (that's 9.0 per 100,000 just in case which is more than double the stats you posted for the US)

followed by Estonia and Luxembourg, Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic and Finland.

Austria has the lowest homicide rate at 0.67.

Lithuanian and Estonian commentators say that most homicides are perpetrated at home and usually are the result of alcohol abuse, while generally the streets of cities are very safe.

here ya go:


UNODC murder rates most recent year

Africa 17.0 169,105
Americas 15.4 144,595
Asia 3.1 127,120
Europe 3.5 24,025
Oceania 2.9 1,180
World 6.9 466,078


North America, including Canada:
Northern America 3.9 13,558 Americas

Eastern Europe counting Poland:
Eastern Europe 6.4 19,072 Europe

you might want to a do a bit of research before you start putting up 'so called statistics'

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is a thread fail. "Chicago has strict gun laws and has 500 homicides" but the truth is over all crime is on a downward trend in Chicago. Homicides have gone down from a high point of 943 per year, compared to 500 this year. Seems to be working to me.

not really seeing anything tougher than other areas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...tates_by_state

more guns. less crime
http://www.datamasher.org/mash-ups/c...-gun-ownership

and this is really great
http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

one of the reasons for that is a history of 'overthrowing the government and starting wars' in east euro that really hasn't happened in the USA so the gov here has been a lot more liberal on guns ownership + many or the US concepts of guns are from a time when there was much open territory.

for instance my great grandfather had to wear a gun in the field while plowing and tending animals. and a large amount of those gun killings are 'minority's' that we as American's are not allowed to mention, in fact I would say most of the gun murders are in fact just that.

"For example, San Mateo County, California had a population of approximately 707,000 and 17 homicides in 2001. Six of these 17 homicides took place in poor East Palo Alto, which had a population of roughly 30,000. So, while East Palo Alto accounted for a mere 4.2% of the population, about one-third of the homicides took place there."

here is this I found:

Poland?s murder rate one of lowest in EU

With 1.29 murders per 100,000 people Poland has one of the lowest homicide rate in the European Union, according to the Eurostat statistical office.

---this is a bit different than 0.02 per 100,000 that you have put up

Lithuania is the murder center of the EU, with nine homicides yearly for every 100,000 inhabitants, (that's 9.0 per 100,000 just in case which is more than double the stats you posted for the US)

followed by Estonia and Luxembourg, Belgium, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic and Finland.

Austria has the lowest homicide rate at 0.67.

Lithuanian and Estonian commentators say that most homicides are perpetrated at home and usually are the result of alcohol abuse, while generally the streets of cities are very safe.

here ya go:


UNODC murder rates most recent year

Africa 17.0 169,105
Americas 15.4 144,595
Asia 3.1 127,120
Europe 3.5 24,025
Oceania 2.9 1,180
World 6.9 466,078


North America, including Canada:
Northern America 3.9 13,558 Americas

Eastern Europe counting Poland:
Eastern Europe 6.4 19,072 Europe

you might want to a do a bit of research before you start putting of 'so called statistics'

You shouldn't jump to the conclusion that I didn't do any research - I even asked for a rebuttle at the start so we could have an intelligent discussion and not a OMG GUNS ARE BAD VS WTF GUNS ARE AWESOME arguement. The article I posted shows firearm homicides, not homicides. I did also look up the overall homicide rate before I posted and yes I did find poland was around 1/100k and US was around 4/100k or something like that. You also shouldn't compare all of eastern europe to all of north amerca either, because there is like 10 countries that are counted into eastern europes all with different laws and different gun availability. It's comparing apples to oranges...different parts of eastern europe are literally MILES apart in terms of economic and social differences. My comparison was of strictly two countries with strictly two different philosophies on guns.

That being said, my point was to argue "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". It was to illustrate that gun control = less people getting killed by firearms, not that less people get murdered (which 4 to 1 per capital is still a HUGE difference). When my kid goes to school, i'm not gonna have it at the back of my head that the place will get shot up. I can stroll through the darkest alley in the shittiest part of town, and at worst i'll get my ass kicked but I certainly won't get shot. If my house gets broken into, the burglers almost certainly won't have guns. I'm not saying "if you abolish all guns in the US immediately, the problem will be fixed". I'm saying that progressively more gun control over the course of the next 20 to 30 years WILL make a difference. Criminals aren't always criminals forever, and the harder you make it for new criminals to get guns in the long run the gun murders will go down. Think back to how many people you probably knew in highscool that were selling weed and now have regular jobs and families.

[BIGTYMER]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

pls put a population graph against that if you want a better idea of the TRUTH

Indeed. Here you go.

Population


Prison Population

[seeandsee]

stats not droping now

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

You shouldn't jump to the conclusion that I didn't do any research - I even asked for a rebuttle at the start so we could have an intelligent discussion and not a OMG GUNS ARE BAD VS WTF GUNS ARE AWESOME arguement. The article I posted shows firearm homicides, not homicides. I did also look up the overall homicide rate before I posted and yes I did find poland was around 1/100k and US was around 4/100k or something like that. You also shouldn't compare all of eastern europe to all of north amerca either, because there is like 10 countries that are counted into eastern europes all with different laws and different gun availability. It's comparing apples to oranges...different parts of eastern europe are literally MILES apart in terms of economic and social differences. My comparison was of strictly two countries with strictly two different philosophies on guns.

That being said, my point was to argue "Guns don't kill people, people kill people". It was to illustrate that gun control = less people getting killed by firearms, not that less people get murdered (which 4 to 1 per capital is still a HUGE difference). When my kid goes to school, i'm not gonna have it at the back of my head that the place will get shot up. I can stroll through the darkest alley in the shittiest part of town, and at worst i'll get my ass kicked but I certainly won't get shot. If my house gets broken into, the burglers almost certainly won't have guns. I'm not saying "if you abolish all guns in the US immediately, the problem will be fixed". I'm saying that progressively more gun control over the course of the next 20 to 30 years WILL make a difference. Criminals aren't always criminals forever, and the harder you make it for new criminals to get guns in the long run the gun murders will go down. Think back to how many people you probably knew in highscool that were selling weed and now have regular jobs and families.

my apologies America has become a very cold hard place

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by BIGTYMER

Indeed. Here you go.

Population


Prison Population

yes and one of the reasons crime is dropping IS the huge prison population.. prison does deter crime, if nothing else because the fuck ups are in prison

[Freaky_Akula]

In Britain's specific case, gun killings have not fallen since the introduction of the handgun ban: http://azizonomics.com/2012/12/28/gu...ol-in-britain/

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Seriously? ..what about the firearm deaths in Poland from let's say 1939-1945. That would be about 6 million deaths per-35,000,000 polish population. A 1-5.8 chance of getting killed when the total firearm deaths in America since birth? Revolutionary war, the Civil war, and firearm homicides for the last 229 years, under a million.

You have to realize that pollock jokes were invented because you poles weren't known for you making good decisions or conclusions right?

The data is from 2009 for the US and 2010 for PL - recent data which gives a very valid comparison of modern society. You're now comparing the firearms deaths of a country full of concentration camps trying to exterminate an entire race of people during a war in which it was invaded by germany and russia from two different sides 70 years ago and i'm the one drawing bad conclusions?

If we're goign to be making comparisons like that, then Poland has been around in some form (Kingdom of Poland) for 1000 years so why don't we count in the lack of firearm deaths in the region during the 500-600 years before they were invented? You're comparing deaths by 200 year old muskets to rifles, gas chambers, tanks and god knows what else.

[slapass]

The murder rate might be up this year after a many year down trend based on the recent gun law changes in that city. It is easier to carry now.

[Antonio]

Murder rate per capita

Poland - 13th from a total of 27 (I think) EU countries, so that's hardly "one of the lowest" rates in the EU

As for the US - they have more guns than ever and murder rate that is about half of what it used to 15 or so years ago. It looks like they are doing something right over there.

[BIGTYMER]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

yes and one of the reasons crime is dropping IS the huge prison population.. prison does deter crime, if nothing else because the fuck ups are in prison

No doubt about it.

Gun laws only hurt the honest people.

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by Antonio

Murder rate per capita

Poland - 13th from a total of 27 (I think) EU countries, so that's hardly "one of the lowest" rates in the EU

As for the US - they have more guns than ever and murder rate that is about half of what it used to 15 or so years ago. It looks like they are doing something right over there.

Exactly.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by BIGTYMER

No doubt about it.

Gun laws only hurt the honest people.

yeah like insurance and Medicare fraud

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

This is what gets me about Euro-trash. No problem pointing fingers, but when they point back they go to pieces. You'll counter by taking a fragment of what I wrote and then base a direction from this miss information to base a faulty reply. I said Poles, NOT those who died in concentration camps etc. Don't try to hide behind the dead jew card.

You completely and totally miss the point. Would you rather have 100 million die in 2 world wars in 25 years with severe gun control, or have under a million in 229 years?

That's what I hate about `muricans. Convinced their view is right and resorting to calling people stupid and euro trash when if don't agree with them. You're right - Gun control won't work in the US. I disagree with your views, and you immediately become aggressive and combative calling me names and implying everyone in my country is stupid rather then trying to convince me diplomatically to your point of view... Who was pointing fingers? I was trying to have an intelligent discussion as I wrote in my first post. I show recent statistics on firearm homicides, and you start comparing the murders that happened in poland in ww2 to the murders in all the history of the US. Of course there was more then during the civil war - there were tanks, planes, landmines, handgranades, rifles, machine guns, etc. Technology made killing more efficient. We're not in ww2, we're not in the civil war, we're not in medieval times - we're here and it's now. WW2 wasn't exactly Poland's idea, and the number of deaths here had nothing to do with Poland's policy on firearms at that time.

The world is a different place then it was 200 or even 50 years ago. You aren't being invaded, you aren't trying to get your independance from the british, you have a far more populated/colonized country where you no longer have to worry about wolves and bears ripping your children to shreds when they are playing outside and not every man, woman and child needs a collection of assault rifle to protect their home.

Whatever though - how about we just agree to disagree and instead of resorting to name calling?

[buzzard]

Wonder how many of those 'homicides' were caused by government employees.
Ban guns from government.