anti gun crybabies... inside:

[Grapesoda]

here you can go about this a feel superior to everybody

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55...ealed.html.csp

-glad somebody gives a fuck about our kids

More than 150 Utah teachers and school workers took time off from their winter breaks Thursday to attend a free class on how to carry concealed weapons and respond to mass violence such as the recent shooting in a Connecticut school.

It?s a course that?s been offered to Utah educators for more than a decade, but Thursday it attracted about 10 times as many people as usual, said Clark Aposhian, an instructor with Fairwarning Training and a chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, which hosted the class with OPSGEAR. Aposhian said organizers had to turn away about 40 or 50 people for lack of space.

He credited the course?s sudden popularity to increased media attention on the class and its timing, coming just weeks after a gunman?s massacre at a Newtown, Conn., elementary school killed 20 children and six adults.

Aposhian said parents and school employees in Utah and across the nation felt "utterly helpless" when they saw the tragedy that unfolded in Newtown.

"We want to give school employees one more option to protect themselves and their students," Aposhian said of the class, which went over the basics of how to respond to an attack, carrying concealed weapons and applying for concealed weapon permits.

"You?re never going to get all the mentally and criminally insane people off the streets, and you?re never going to be able to disarm all the criminals, so logically what do you do?"

Utah is one of two states that already allows concealed weapons permit holders to carry firearms on school grounds. The other state is Kansas.

The class came about a week after the National Rifle Association called for armed police officers in every school, and at least one Utah lawmaker, Rep. Curt Oda, R-Clearfield, asserted that more armed teachers would make classrooms safer.

Those positions have garnered much controversy in Utah and across the country. The nation?s two largest teachers unions, the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association, have said that arming educators won?t improve school safety and that "guns have no place in our schools." The groups have instead called for a renewed focus on bullying prevention, mental health services and gun control.

But educators who packed a conference room at the Maverik Center on Thursday had a decidedly different view.

"When you are in a building full of kids all day anything can happen," said Kelli Stebbins, a technology teacher at East Midvale Elementary. She said it?s not realistic to think that a attack like the one in Connecticut couldn?t happen here.

"It can happen, and it will happen, and I?d rather be on the prepared side than the not-prepared side," Stebbins said.

Richard Summers, a sixth-grade teacher at Copper Hills Elementary in Magna, said after the shooting some of his students asked him what he would have done in that situation. He said he would have given his life to help them. Several of those who died in Connecticut were educators protecting their students.

"Certainly the incident in Connecticut," Summers said, "makes us want to be aware and know what to do."

Rachel Bateman, a fourth-grade teacher at Early Light Academy in South Jordan, said she also attended the class because she wanted to be prepared. Part of the course included instruction in awareness and other ways to respond to classroom attacks, such as gouging an attacker?s eyes, choking an attacker and how to hide.

Bateman said she hadn?t yet decided Thursday whether she would want to carry a gun in the classroom.

"I want to be able to protect my kids, my students, and people in the building, but on the other hand, different variables come with concealing a weapon," Bateman said, noting she might be worried, for example, that a student would feel a gun while hugging her.

[StickyGreen]

[AutumnBH]

[xNetworx]

Her vagoo looks like a catcher's mitt

[georgeyw]

No idea what the following means in english :

"here you can go about this a feel superior to everybody "

[wehateporn]

I would like to see all guns including the ones in warzones to be converted into Quasar guns, then we can all have a giant game...every day!

[livexxx]

LOL, start the stockpile this is now a media campaign

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by AutumnBH

much better than the dead horse

[sandman!]

:thum bsup

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

here you can go about this a feel superior to everybody

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55...ealed.html.csp

-glad somebody gives a fuck about our kids

You are missing a large number of issues here.

1) Teachers with guns

Do you really want your kid's teacher's to be packing a firearm when they are with them? My kid's teacher is twenty-four years old and all of ninety-five pounds soaking wet... She can't hurt a fucking fly no less fire a handgun at a range. What is she gonna do - Strap a handgun to her thigh under her dress while she plays jump rope with the kids on the playground?

What happens when one of those teachers has their firearm unsupervised for more than moment and an eight year old kid picks it up and thinks it's a toy and shoots his classmate dead?

My kid's school has twenty-six teachers. Does that mean my child is going to be surrounded by twenty-six handguns eight hours a day? Do the math here... You put twenty-six guns onto a campus and an accident will happen, someone's kid will get shot, the school district will be sued, the teacher will loose their job (because in addition to all of their job responsibilities we now require them to be law enforcement officers), and that will be only the start of the problem.

I'm sorry, I don't want my child surrounded by firearms on a daily basis by people untrained to handle it.

2) Last Resort

Arming teachers and tell them to protect school kids after the shooting has stopped is too late. The bullets have already started to fly and people are already dead. It's too late. Instead, the goal here should be to stop these people from getting firearms.

Anyone can get a firearm at this point. You can't get a fucking driver's license without a test, and you have register your car every year, but with a firearm anyone can get one....

3) Only protecting schools

Great, let's say we arm all teachers with firearms. Awesome. That's not going to protect malls. Or churches. Or government offices.

Basically you want to surround school children daily with untrained teachers who have dangerous loaded firearms and expect them to handle a tactical situation AFTER the shots have already been fired? That's called desperation.

[onwebcam]

And in other news

In January, Senator Feinstein will introduce a bill to stop the sale, transfer, importation and manufacturing of military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition feeding devices.


Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
120 specifically-named firearms;
Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one or more military characteristics; and
Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.
Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test;
Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test; and
Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans.
Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.
Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment;
Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes; and
Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons.
Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
Background check of owner and any transferee;
Type and serial number of the firearm;
Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration.

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/publ...ssault-weapons

[buzzard]

No Shit, Great post Grapesoda..!

[buzzard]

At least somebody gets it

[MrMaxwell]

God damn everyone is fucking stupid in this country these days

[grumpy]

what if one of the teachers looses it?

[xenigo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You are missing a large number of issues here.

1) Teachers with guns

Do you really want your kid's teacher's to be packing a firearm when they are with them? My kid's teacher is twenty-four years old and all of ninety-five pounds soaking wet... She can't hurt a fucking fly no less fire a handgun at a range. What is she gonna do - Strap a handgun to her thigh under her dress while she plays jump rope with the kids on the playground?

What happens when one of those teachers has their firearm unsupervised for more than moment and an eight year old kid picks it up and thinks it's a toy and shoots his classmate dead?

My kid's school has twenty-six teachers. Does that mean my child is going to be surrounded by twenty-six handguns eight hours a day? Do the math here... You put twenty-six guns onto a campus and an accident will happen, someone's kid will get shot, the school district will be sued, the teacher will loose their job (because in addition to all of their job responsibilities we now require them to be law enforcement officers), and that will be only the start of the problem.

I'm sorry, I don't want my child surrounded by firearms on a daily basis by people untrained to handle it.

2) Last Resort

Arming teachers and tell them to protect school kids after the shooting has stopped is too late. The bullets have already started to fly and people are already dead. It's too late. Instead, the goal here should be to stop these people from getting firearms.

Anyone can get a firearm at this point. You can't get a fucking driver's license without a test, and you have register your car every year, but with a firearm anyone can get one....

3) Only protecting schools

Great, let's say we arm all teachers with firearms. Awesome. That's not going to protect malls. Or churches. Or government offices.

Basically you want to surround school children daily with untrained teachers who have dangerous loaded firearms and expect them to handle a tactical situation AFTER the shots have already been fired? That's called desperation.

Thumbs up... QFT.

[Dirty F]

If your country needs teachers with guns it's time to leave that country.

[v4 media]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

"You?re never going to get all the mentally and criminally insane people off the streets, and you?re never going to be able to disarm all the criminals, so logically what do you do?"

What do you do?
Not use a red font on a grey background, sent my eyes dodgy.

[Jakke PNG]

The US is fucked already. You've had the open guns policy for too long, it's now too late to regulate it when everyone already has a gun.

[Eyeball]

So if i want to go to a school and shoot some kids i don't even need to take a weapon. I can just take the one off the geeky teacher when i get there.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by AutumnBH

That is exactly how I would hunt humans should the day ever come and I snap. Silent and deadly.

[MPGdevil]

Originally Posted by grumpy

what if one of the teachers looses it?

Obviously go one step further and arm the kids.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by MPGdevil

Obviously go one step further and arm the kids.

Unfortunately, I can see that coming not too far down the road.

Gun Lovers:

Arming Teachers is INSANE.
Placing Armed guards at every school is INSANE!
Selling ridiculous firearms to people without proper registration is INSANE!
Making super-sized magazines available is INSANE!!!!!!

It's ok if you are a gun lover - I get it - everyone gets it. This is not the point. What is the point is that the NRA is filling you with fear and throws around words like Freedoms and second amendment rights, and is SELLING YOU on BUYING MORE GUNS. The NRA is just as responsible for the death of those poor kids as the shooter is, especially after the offensive comments that the NRA spokesperson made last week.

[Scott McD]

[Harmon]

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You are missing a large number of issues here.

1) Teachers with guns

Do you really want your kid's teacher's to be packing a firearm when they are with them? My kid's teacher is twenty-four years old and all of ninety-five pounds soaking wet... She can't hurt a fucking fly no less fire a handgun at a range. What is she gonna do - Strap a handgun to her thigh under her dress while she plays jump rope with the kids on the playground?

What happens when one of those teachers has their firearm unsupervised for more than moment and an eight year old kid picks it up and thinks it's a toy and shoots his classmate dead?

My kid's school has twenty-six teachers. Does that mean my child is going to be surrounded by twenty-six handguns eight hours a day? Do the math here... You put twenty-six guns onto a campus and an accident will happen, someone's kid will get shot, the school district will be sued, the teacher will loose their job (because in addition to all of their job responsibilities we now require them to be law enforcement officers), and that will be only the start of the problem.

I'm sorry, I don't want my child surrounded by firearms on a daily basis by people untrained to handle it.

2) Last Resort

Arming teachers and tell them to protect school kids after the shooting has stopped is too late. The bullets have already started to fly and people are already dead. It's too late. Instead, the goal here should be to stop these people from getting firearms.

Anyone can get a firearm at this point. You can't get a fucking driver's license without a test, and you have register your car every year, but with a firearm anyone can get one....

3) Only protecting schools

Great, let's say we arm all teachers with firearms. Awesome. That's not going to protect malls. Or churches. Or government offices.

Basically you want to surround school children daily with untrained teachers who have dangerous loaded firearms and expect them to handle a tactical situation AFTER the shots have already been fired? That's called desperation.

Richard we all wish that the situation wasn't like it is, BUT the cat is out of the bag... other than the men in black picking all the guns up in the middle of the night and then making us forget we ever had guns this isn't going away... and seriously, why not put guns in the hands of qualified people and 24 years olds? 24 year olds have been serving in the military with guns, well since they've had guns... remember? how old were you when you served and did you have a gun?

and no one is talking about arming all the teachers and you know it... you're being 'reactionary' we are talking about making a real life decision to protect our children, and taking action to follow through on the decision. this isn't about pie in the sky.... Jewish schools in the LA area are armed... ever hear any problems about that?

which brings me to this point: why not hire qualified teachers?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by v4 media

What do you do?
Not use a red font on a grey background, sent my eyes dodgy.

yeah, red text on black does that to me

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by grumpy

what if one of the teachers looses it?

what if a teacher looses it and brings a gun to school from home and kills all the kids... what if a meteor falls on the school and kills everybody?

[Dirty F]

You just know how fucked up the American society is when people think it's a good thing to arm teachers.
They completely lost it in that 3rd world country.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by **********

Unfortunately, I can see that coming not too far down the road.

Gun Lovers:

Arming Teachers is INSANE.
Placing Armed guards at every school is INSANE!
Selling ridiculous firearms to people without proper registration is INSANE!
Making super-sized magazines available is INSANE!!!!!!

It's ok if you are a gun lover - I get it - everyone gets it. This is not the point. What is the point is that the NRA is filling you with fear and throws around words like Freedoms and second amendment rights, and is SELLING YOU on BUYING MORE GUNS. The NRA is just as responsible for the death of those poor kids as the shooter is, especially after the offensive comments that the NRA spokesperson made last week.

please come live in the real world with us.... driving a jet into a tall building is insane... let's deal with real life and not how we wish it would be. I'm not a gun lover any more than I'm a pliers lover... yes I have pliers and yes I have a gun.... ? neither is any of your business or your concern.

actually I don't like guns and really do not care to handle mine, but I do and I will when I need to. so what..

the person responsible for those kids death is the fuck who killed them and possibly his mother for raising such a creepy piece of shit... let's ban mothers... or at least regulate the shit out of them... that's as realistic as your point of view I think.

guns should be regulated, crazy fucks should be locked up and in a perfect world they would be BUT hey! I don't live in a perfect world.... not really sure where you live.

and I'm pretty sure that kid put out plenty of OBVIOUS symptoms before he went down to the school and stated killing people... why was that allowed?

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

...and you in Finland with your heavy regulated firearm policies did not stop Kauhajoki school shooting massacre now did it?

true, but that was infinitely rare and isn't exactly an epidemic there is it?


I don't think anyone is pushing for arming all teachers are they? I think they are suggesting having some faculty carrying, ones who are comfortable/experienced with fire arms. Even having an armed security guard would probably make more sense than that though. The question is if anyone will feel that their kids are safer or worse off.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

You just know how fucked up the American society is when people think it's a good thing to arm teachers.
They completely lost it in that 3rd world country.

you know you would be living in a Nazi Dream World right now if Americans didn't have gun culture... how about a nice big thank you?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

true, but that was infinitely rare and isn't exactly an epidemic there is it?


I don't think anyone is pushing for arming all teachers are they? I think they are suggesting having some faculty carrying, ones who are comfortable/experienced with fire arms. Even having an armed security guard would probably make more sense than that though. The question is if anyone will feel that their kids are safer or worse off.

great stuff and I think sensationalizing in the press is plays a hand in starting the epidemic. but the press has a vested interest in gun murders on several levels...

the more murders and the younger the murdered the better the story and the more fear the better the ratings. the better the ratings the more money. and also the press get's to 'decry' gun violence and once again have great news stories... it's a win/win for the press...

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

you know you would be living in a Nazi Dream World right now if Americans didn't have gun culture... how about a nice big thank you?

With comments like this you always know who the dumb American rednecks in the thread are.

[Jakke PNG]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

...and you in Finland with your heavy regulated firearm policies did not stop Kauhajoki school shooting massacre now did it?

We don't have heavily regulated firearm policies. We have more (legal) guns per capita than you.
We're fucked too..

What a great defence you had though, not trying to defend your own point but try to attack others. Nice.

[Choopa Phil]

[tony286]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

[/url]

Great you want to pay for it? Also he is the fucking president of the united states of america.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

Richard we all wish that the situation wasn't like it is, BUT the cat is out of the bag... other than the men in black picking all the guns up in the middle of the night and then making us forget we ever had guns this isn't going away... and seriously, why not put guns in the hands of qualified people and 24 years olds? 24 year olds have been serving in the military with guns, well since they've had guns... remember? how old were you when you served and did you have a gun?

and no one is talking about arming all the teachers and you know it... you're being 'reactionary' we are talking about making a real life decision to protect our children, and taking action to follow through on the decision. this isn't about pie in the sky.... Jewish schools in the LA area are armed... ever hear any problems about that?

which brings me to this point: why not hire qualified teachers?

People bitch about paying for just a regular teacher. What do you think it costs to hire a teacher who is also a swat team member? Also those skills if not practiced all the time go away.

[pimpmaster9000]

guns/no guns...does not make a difference...

america is a violent place and its government is failing at governing its own territory...the value of human life is degraded...the US army bombs the shit out of places and it makes it "OK" to kill under a good "Excuse"..."support our troops" means support murder and bombing...I am not going in to who is right or wrong in US wars for "Freedom" I am just pointing out the "support the killing" mindset...soldiers kill, good or bad they kill...its what they do...the US makes them "cool"

another problem related to this is that it makes it "more OK" to kill certain types of people (arabs/muslims/blacks/communists/"insurgents"...) but you are a cultural melting pot...you are all multi colored...if one side starts to devalue the life of another, then soon the other side will start doing the same...its the allmighty law of action and equal opposite reaction...

the gun culture is another problem...they want to limit to one firearm per month man that is so insane..one gun per month?!?!? you either understand the insanity of this or you are beyond help...automatic weapons??? how about hand grenades? ...are you humans or klingons? how do you need more than one gun in a life time??? does it spoil? ...

there is no helping this...it will escalate until you change your entire culture...and this will not happen any time soon...TV shows and movies glorify murder and so do video games...society is degenerating and being "bad" is now "cool"...

more and more people are poor because the US economy is going down the shitter because of insane taxes and outsourcing and the US corporate government and wasteful spending on bullshit...

im sad to say that I expect school shootings to increase in morbid "popularity", after they arm the fuck out of schools train stations and theaters and all other public places somebody will poison the water or make a chemical weapon...

the USA needs to fix its society and not pretend that more or less guns will change anything...just my 2cents LOL

[ajrocks]

Sounds like a sound idea, if you operate on a school ground mentality.

[J. Falcon]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

you know you would be living in a Nazi Dream World right now if Americans didn't have gun culture... how about a nice big thank you?

Wow, what a stupid fucking thing to say.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

you know you would be living in a Nazi Dream World right now if Americans didn't have gun culture... how about a nice big thank you?

i didnt know that in the US the soldiers have to bring their own guns

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

With comments like this you always know who the dumb American rednecks in the thread are.

and you can thanks dumb America rednecks as well... most of the causalities in battle are southern men... so how about a big thank you, while sit there and have the freedom to sell porn online

[nico-t]

Jesus christ. Armed teachers.

America sounds more and more like a nice place to live.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by tony286

Great you want to pay for it? Also he is the fucking president of the united states of america.

hummmm.. his kids have more right to live than my kids? and BTW I do pay for that

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i didnt know that in the US the soldiers have to bring their own guns

okay next time you guys get fucked up we'll stay home... I wish indirectly is was the peace movement after WWI that helped produce WWII, look it up. schools were forced to put anti war sentiment in text books as well as trying to place the suffering on both sides not just the French side but the German soldiers as well. Hitler did not have the military strength to take on France and his generals begged him not to attack France.... France lost in what... 3 weeks or some shit? the French had been betrayed by their intellectual class and the media... the young men had no will to defend their homes, their family's and their sovereign country.

you were brought up the same way I guess, which is fine if you don't live in a dangerous world like we do. peace is better than war, yes. unfortunately only a strong military allows peace.

as far as guns go, yes guns are dangerous BUT crazy people are more dangerous. maybe you should consider not blaming the tool and start looking at the carpenter?

[Tom_PM]

Sure seems to be a lot of talk about guns for such a non-gun related problem.
If the problem is mentally unstable people and not guns then lets see a list of reasons why all schools should hire professionals in talking down suicidal nuts. After all, even if they didn't have a gun they'd break into a school and attack with an alligator, so lets go to the source of the problem.

[grumpy]

i am pro putting (unarmed ) guards at schools and other public places. But the gun control thing has become to complicated. We need better regulations and learn to be more social. Its an attitude problem.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Sure seems to be a lot of talk about guns for such a non-gun related problem.
If the problem is mentally unstable people and not guns then lets see a list of reasons why all schools should hire professionals in talking down suicidal nuts. After all, even if they didn't have a gun they'd break into a school and attack with an alligator, so lets go to the source of the problem.

the gun issue is a much better political platform than crazy people, the problem is a giant civil rights nightmare when you start going after whack-jobs.

pretty sure more people are killed by alcohol than guns every year and we sure can't ban that, been tried didn't work. same with cars... can't really ban cars...