TOOL Frontman Sounds Off On Illegal Downloading, Music Industry

[xxxjay]

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.asp...sitemID=185308

[StickyGreen]

Tool frontman is a tool...

[L-Pink]

Nice article Jay ….

Maynard: "There's a disconnect between people not buying music and not understanding why [bands] go away. There are people who are like monkeys in a cage just hitting the coke button. They don't really get that for [musicians and artists] to do these things, they have to fund them. They have to have something to pay the rent."

.

[Verbal]

You have to be dead not to love Tool or A Perfect Circle. That being said, I don't really care what singers have to say when they're not singing.

[PR_Glen]

don't bands make 95% of their money from touring anyway?

speaking of which i finally saw them live in detroit and they played 8 long songs all new except for stink fist and left without an encore.. bravo..

in their defence i'm sure they are better to see indoors..

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

don't bands make 95% of their money from touring anyway?

speaking of which i finally saw them live in detroit and they played 8 long songs all new except for stink fist and left without an encore.. bravo..

in their defence i'm sure they are better to see indoors..

Pink Floyd sold more than 50 million "albums" that's a lot of money there.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Nice article Jay ?.

Maynard: "There's a disconnect between people not buying music and not understanding why [bands] go away. There are people who are like monkeys in a cage just hitting the coke button. They don't really get that for [musicians and artists] to do these things, they have to fund them. They have to have something to pay the rent."

.

I liked that one too.

[Rochard]

I don't think anything has changed really. I still remember buying blank cassettes and recording music directly off the radio - crappy, but that was how we did things then. For a while that problem went away with CDs - Then could rip a song and then put it online for thousands of people to grab.

[kane]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

don't bands make 95% of their money from touring anyway?

speaking of which i finally saw them live in detroit and they played 8 long songs all new except for stink fist and left without an encore.. bravo..

in their defence i'm sure they are better to see indoors..

It depends. Some bands, well many bands, have bad deals and they make very little off of the record sales partially because the labels spend a lot of money promoting them and that money all comes out of the artists royalties. That said, a band also gets performance royalties for having songs played on the radio or on services like Spotify and Pandora. They also can make money selling merchandise and licensing their music for things like ringtones, but for many bands touring is the big source of income especially if they are a well-known, popular band that can sell out big venues at prices that are pretty high.

If you are a big, well-known band then you can get a big advance for recording an album. For example many years ago right after Dude Looks Like a Lady hit for Aerosmith they signed a four album deal worth $50 million dollars. They knew they would likely never see a penny of royalties but they got $12.5 million up front per record then went on the road and made bank so they likely cared less about record sales.

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

don't bands make 95% of their money from touring anyway?

speaking of which i finally saw them live in detroit and they played 8 long songs all new except for stink fist and left without an encore.. bravo..

in their defence i'm sure they are better to see indoors..

Huh? They played 8 new songs? From their upcoming album? That's hard to believe. Are you sure? Any youtube links?

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by kane

It depends. Some bands, well many bands, have bad deals and they make very little off of the record sales partially because the labels spend a lot of money promoting them and that money all comes out of the artists royalties. That said, a band also gets performance royalties for having songs played on the radio or on services like Spotify and Pandora. They also can make money selling merchandise and licensing their music for things like ringtones, but for many bands touring is the big source of income especially if they are a well-known, popular band that can sell out big venues at prices that are pretty high.

If you are a big, well-known band then you can get a big advance for recording an album. For example many years ago right after Dude Looks Like a Lady hit for Aerosmith they signed a four album deal worth $50 million dollars. They knew they would likely never see a penny of royalties but they got $12.5 million up front per record then went on the road and made bank so they likely cared less about record sales.

It's definitely in how well the band spends that advance. The old system was rigged against bands, probably still is, for making money off actual disc sales. But money is in commercials, licensing for tv and film and other outlets as you mentioned.

I think the problems younger bands face, the ones doing it themselves, are by "fans" who spread the music around in places the band does not intend. Sure, band may give away a certain amount for free, but they have to pay the bills at the end of the day. Its like the asshats giving away entire videos away in our business. And people wonder why revenue streams are trickling down to nothing.

Great interview with Maynard. Every musician wannabe should check it for reality.

[The Ghost]

He's rather straight forward in the article.


Thanks for sharing it and i'm a big fan of Tool. One of the best bands i've seen live.

[NaughtyRob]

Tool fucking rocks. Period.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

It's definitely in how well the band spends that advance. The old system was rigged against bands, probably still is, for making money off actual disc sales. But money is in commercials, licensing for tv and film and other outlets as you mentioned.

I think the problems younger bands face, the ones doing it themselves, are by "fans" who spread the music around in places the band does not intend. Sure, band may give away a certain amount for free, but they have to pay the bills at the end of the day. Its like the asshats giving away entire videos away in our business. And people wonder why revenue streams are trickling down to nothing.

Great interview with Maynard. Every musician wannabe should check it for reality.

For sure. In all record label cases it comes down to the contract. If a band is in a position of power they can demand certain things and might make more off of records sales where other newer bands will not.

These days we are seeing more and more 360 deals. Labels are signing new acts and the contracts are forcing the bands to give the labels a piece of all of their income from touring, merch, licensing etc. It is a sign of the times.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by NaughtyRob

Tool fucking rocks. Period.

Amen on that...



Danny is one of the few people I truly feel short next to.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kane

For sure. In all record label cases it comes down to the contract. If a band is in a position of power they can demand certain things and might make more off of records sales where other newer bands will not.

These days we are seeing more and more 360 deals. Labels are signing new acts and the contracts are forcing the bands to give the labels a piece of all of their income from touring, merch, licensing etc. It is a sign of the times.

That has always been going on. That is nothing new.

[Some Guy]

Maynard is fucking brilliant. Tool's easily one of the best bands of the last two decades.

[Far-L]

Should've paid closer attention to the Grateful Dead business model...

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Should've paid closer attention to the Grateful Dead business model...

Write shitty music, make your shows a traveling drug carnival? That's all they really did. Sure that made a shitload of money, but they still suck.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Write shitty music, make your shows a traveling drug carnival? That's all they really did. Sure that made a shitload of money, but they still suck.

Guess your bands should've paid closer attention too.

Here you go, no need to thank me...

You have already amused me enough that I should be thanking you for your drug carnival comment, or am I the only one that finds that laughably ironic?

From the description:

"The Grateful Dead broke almost every rule in the music industry book. They encouraged their fans to record shows and trade tapes; they built a mailing list and sold concert tickets directly to fans; and they built their business model on live concerts, not album sales. By cultivating a dedicated, active community, collaborating with their audience to co-create the Deadhead lifestyle, and giving away "freemium" content, the Dead pioneered many social media and inbound marketing concepts successfully used by businesses across all industries today."

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Guess your bands should've paid closer attention too.

Here you go, no need to thank me...

You have already amused me enough that I should be thanking you for your drug carnival comment, or am I the only one that finds that laughably ironic?

From the description:

"The Grateful Dead broke almost every rule in the music industry book. They encouraged their fans to record shows and trade tapes; they built a mailing list and sold concert tickets directly to fans; and they built their business model on live concerts, not album sales. By cultivating a dedicated, active community, collaborating with their audience to co-create the Deadhead lifestyle, and giving away "freemium" content, the Dead pioneered many social media and inbound marketing concepts successfully used by businesses across all industries today."

That was a different time, plus the dead didn't have any albums woth buying, but I would go to their shows to score drugs...

Oh yeah...



SLAYER!!!

[VamosNicholas]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Maynard is fucking brilliant. Tool's easily one of the best bands of the last two decades.

That's not exactly saying very much considering 90% of the music from the past 2 decades is terrible. Not a fan of tool, but I definitely feel like people are downloading so much music simply because they can, not because they actually like the artists.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by VamosNicholas

That's not exactly saying very much considering 90% of the music from the past 2 decades is terrible. Not a fan of tool, but I definitely feel like people are downloading so much music simply because they can, not because they actually like the artists.

I'm sure people will do the same with Bluebird Films

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by VamosNicholas

That's not exactly saying very much considering 90% of the music from the past 2 decades is terrible.

Good point. Especially the music from the last decade. Good lord.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

Good point. Especially the music from the last decade. Good lord.

I have to agree, I don't like most newer music, but maybe it would would not have taken a nosedive if bands actually had an intensive to pursue their craft.

[madm1k3]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Amen on that...



Danny is one of the few people I truly feel short next to.

Danny Carey is fucking amazing!!!

I have seen Tool live 6 times and I still get amazed at how he can be so fucking good and make it look so effort less. I love how he brings the drummer from an opening act up on stage and has a drum off, fucking awesome!

Maynard is right, unfortunatley bands have suffered from illegal downloading but at the same time there is not a lot of music worth paying for these days.

[kane]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

I have to agree, I don't like most newer music, but maybe it would would not have taken a nosedive if bands actually had an intensive to pursue their craft.

This is a great point. It wasn't too long ago that a label would sign a band and develop them. they would give them 2-3 albums to see if they could find a voice and build an audience. Because of this a lot of good bands had time to become very good or great bands. These days if your first single isn't a hit they toss you aside and move on.

[Some Guy]

There's still some good music out there but it's hard to find thanks to radio stations and music channels only playing whiny punk/pop, shitty rap, dubstep, techno, or some talentless lip-syncing whore. Today's music scene is in bad shape.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Some Guy

There's still some good music out there but it's hard to find thanks to radio stations and music channels only playing whiny punk/pop, shitty rap, dubstep, techno, or some talentless lip-syncing whore. Today's music scene is in bad shape.

These days like 90% of the radio stations are all owned by the same 2 companies. If they like a song it gets played to death everywhere, but breaking into the radio and getting on it is very difficult.

[Some Guy]

Very true, unfortunately.

[mechanicvirus]

Cool story, tool sucks. prove me wrong by collecting links and putting effort into this.

[Matt 26z]

Downloading has definitely sucked cash out of music. Let's say 15 million people in the US alone downloaded material from 6 albums per year that they otherwise would have purchased. At $15 per CD that's $13.5 Billion in retail sales over that 10 year period.

But at the same time concert ticket prices have doubled. So has the pricetag on everything at the merch stand. And concerts have far more people at them than they did 15 years ago.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kane

This is a great point. It wasn't too long ago that a label would sign a band and develop them. they would give them 2-3 albums to see if they could find a voice and build an audience. Because of this a lot of good bands had time to become very good or great bands. These days if your first single isn't a hit they toss you aside and move on.

I agree with this 100%. If you like the band or not, I'll use Rush as an example. They didn't have a "hit" album to 2012 and that was their 4th release.

If it was today the wouldn't have even made it to "Caress of Steel" (which I rather like)

But, the label stuck it out till "Moving Pictures"...can you imagine how many private jets, houses, eight-balls, and golf courses that thing bought and that was just for the suits? LOL

Digital piracy ruins art. It's a fact.

[Some Guy]

Originally Posted by mechanicvirus

Cool story, tool sucks. prove me wrong by collecting links and putting effort into this.

I wish I could find the HD version of this but it was pulled from YouTube.

Maynard's cerebral lyrics, combined with the mesmeric musicianship of his band members, makes Tool undoubtedly one of the best bands of all time.

[PornDiscounts-V]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Nice article Jay ?.

Maynard: "There's a disconnect between people not buying music and not understanding why [bands] go away. There are people who are like monkeys in a cage just hitting the coke button. They don't really get that for [musicians and artists] to do these things, they have to fund them. They have to have something to pay the rent."

.

Can't torrent a concert... I mean you could, but seriously.

Concerts are where the money is made. Unless the band owns their songs. Which 98% don't.

[kane]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

I agree with this 100%. If you like the band or not, I'll use Rush as an example. They didn't have a "hit" album to 2012 and that was their 4th release.

If it was today the wouldn't have even made it to "Caress of Steel" (which I rather like)

But, the label stuck it out till "Moving Pictures"...can you imagine how many private jets, houses, eight-balls, and golf courses that thing bought and that was just for the suits? LOL

Digital piracy ruins art. It's a fact.

Very true. Another example would be Pink Floyd. They had a small following in England and got some local support at first, but nothing major until their 3rd or 4th album and even those weren't big hits at first. They have sold a lot of copies since as fans discovered them later, but at first they were pretty obscure. In today's market they would have been dumped (if they had even gotten signed) and we would have never had The Wall or Dark Side of the Moon.

[AdultKing]

As things stand right now the marvel of instant distribution is leading to the destruction of quality production because too many people believe it is their right not to pay for what they consume.

People come up with all sorts of justifications as in it's crap anyway, it's too expensive, the corporates just rip bands off anyway (so I will too), the list of excuses and justifications is endless.

In a digital world, original content needs to be valued and penalties for theft of digital content need to be enough to deter that theft, the alternative is that we'll completely lose investment in production as there will be no incentive to produce.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by kane

For sure. In all record label cases it comes down to the contract. If a band is in a position of power they can demand certain things and might make more off of records sales where other newer bands will not.

These days we are seeing more and more 360 deals. Labels are signing new acts and the contracts are forcing the bands to give the labels a piece of all of their income from touring, merch, licensing etc. It is a sign of the times.

I have a new record out on Matador. No, BS. Came out in December. We were lucky enough to do it old school. We're one of the few who can work radio and the press. Too many are willing to get high and have the record company bang them a good one. If I had to sign a 360 deal I would skip label entirely. Just like movie studios they have a thousand ways not to pay you. I just wish free downloaders would make the differentiation between true indy and major label indy.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

I have a new record out on Matador. No, BS. Came out in December. We were lucky enough to do it old school. We're one of the few who can work radio and the press. Too many are willing to get high and have the record company bang them a good one. If I had to sign a 360 deal I would skip label entirely. Just like movie studios they have a thousand ways not to pay you. I just wish free downloaders would make the differentiation between true indy and major label indy.

Congrats on the record. So you were able to get it on the radio? If so that is a major accomplishment.

So many people think, "I'll just download the music and when I like it I'll be a fan of theirs and I will go see them live or support them some other way." Of course they never do so in the end they have the band's music and the band has nothing in return.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by kane

Congrats on the record. So you were able to get it on the radio? If so that is a major accomplishment.

So many people think, "I'll just download the music and when I like it I'll be a fan of theirs and I will go see them live or support them some other way." Of course they never do so in the end they have the band's music and the band has nothing in return.

Thanks. We are getting it to a network of stations we know. I've been dealing with some since the 80's. Its the truth about not supporting via lame disconnect excuse. "I'm with ya bro."

They seem to have the same disconnect with talent vs ability. I watched about 5 mins of American Idol last week and almost wet my pants with laughter. contestants weren't laughing though. Starting to warm up to Minaj, as a character anyway.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Thanks. We are getting it to a network of stations we know. I've been dealing with some since the 80's. Its the truth about not supporting via lame disconnect excuse. "I'm with ya bro."

They seem to have the same disconnect with talent vs ability. I watched about 5 mins of American Idol last week and almost wet my pants with laughter. contestants weren't laughing though. Starting to warm up to Minaj, as a character anyway.

I think American Idol is a perfect example of how fickle the music fans are. Only a few of the winners of that show have gone on to have big careers. A handful of them have had decent careers, but most of them just disappear. You would think that being on the highest rated TV show out there for several weeks during which time they collect potentially hundreds of thousands of Twitter followers and Facebook fans would help launch your career, but by the time the show ends and they put out an album most of the fans have either moved on to the next show, listen to the first single and don't like it so they move on or just download the album and be done with it and those people fade away.

[BlackCrayon]

maynard put the music industry into perspective best with this song



really though, the music industry has to reinvent itself somehow. the internet is a double edged sword. it gives so much easier access to discovering new bands and getting exposure for new bands very cheaply but at the same time record sales become more and more a thing of the past. the album is now just another promotional tool to sell merch and concert tickets but is that really enough? it doesn't seem so by what artists are saying.

as for the physical disconnect. i totally agree. in highschool when i'd buy an album i'd spend all kinds of time looking at every bit of the booklet, the artwork, etc. tool was one of the bands who really put a lot into it. i think bands need to create websites or apps or something for albums to replace that experience. imagine what you can do with that over a booklet, the possibilities are endless.

[kane]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

maynard put the music industry into perspective best with this song



really though, the music industry has to reinvent itself somehow. the internet is a double edged sword. it gives so much easier access to discovering new bands and getting exposure for new bands very cheaply but at the same time record sales become more and more a thing of the past. the album is now just another promotional tool to sell merch and concert tickets but is that really enough? it doesn't seem so by what artists are saying.

as for the physical disconnect. i totally agree. in highschool when i'd buy an album i'd spend all kinds of time looking at every bit of the booklet, the artwork, etc. tool was one of the bands who really put a lot into it. i think bands need to create websites or apps or something for albums to replace that experience. imagine what you can do with that over a booklet, the possibilities are endless.

to me Rick Rubin said it best. He is angry because the record industry used to be in the business of selling art then they changed and now they sell a product. They need to get back to selling art again. These days people are as worried about buying a pop stars clothes from their clothing line or their perfume or other crap and it no longer about the music.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

I have a new record out on Matador. No, BS. Came out in December. We were lucky enough to do it old school. We're one of the few who can work radio and the press. Too many are willing to get high and have the record company bang them a good one. If I had to sign a 360 deal I would skip label entirely. Just like movie studios they have a thousand ways not to pay you. I just wish free downloaders would make the differentiation between true indy and major label indy.

What's the name of the band??

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by kane

to me Rick Rubin said it best. He is angry because the record industry used to be in the business of selling art then they changed and now they sell a product. They need to get back to selling art again. These days people are as worried about buying a pop stars clothes from their clothing line or their perfume or other crap and it no longer about the music.

its a good point but there have always been shitty sell out pop music purely made to sell loads of crap to people. i guess the difference now is that bands who are only interested in the music are now suffering because record sales aren't cutting it anymore and the suits of the music industry don't want to invest in these types anymore since shitty pop music has so many more venues to sell stuff than bands like tool. its about the music for these bands but they also want to make a 'living' (which is far beyond a living for you or me). ok, sure but will it stop artists from wanting to make art if they make only one million instead of ten? ideally, it shouldn't.

[Godsmack]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

maynard put the music industry into perspective best with this song



really though, the music industry has to reinvent itself somehow. the internet is a double edged sword. it gives so much easier access to discovering new bands and getting exposure for new bands very cheaply but at the same time record sales become more and more a thing of the past. the album is now just another promotional tool to sell merch and concert tickets but is that really enough? it doesn't seem so by what artists are saying.

as for the physical disconnect. i totally agree. in highschool when i'd buy an album i'd spend all kinds of time looking at every bit of the booklet, the artwork, etc. tool was one of the bands who really put a lot into it. i think bands need to create websites or apps or something for albums to replace that experience. imagine what you can do with that over a booklet, the possibilities are endless.

God, i love this track.. Love TOOL!

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kane

Very true. Another example would be Pink Floyd. They had a small following in England and got some local support at first, but nothing major until their 3rd or 4th album and even those weren't big hits at first. They have sold a lot of copies since as fans discovered them later, but at first they were pretty obscure. In today's market they would have been dumped (if they had even gotten signed) and we would have never had The Wall or Dark Side of the Moon.

Quoted for truth. And they did so many great albums after, but had they not had their "Dark Side" they wouldn't even be a footnote in rock history.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

That was a different time, plus the dead didn't have any albums woth buying, but I would go to their shows to score drugs...

Oh yeah...

Granted, the Dead may not have had albums that were commercial, or music you didn't like, but so what? That isn't the point. The point is they figured out how to make money in spite of it and outside the control of what the labels did. They owned their music. They worked community. They made money. It was not just working because of "the times".

Tim Armstrong from Rancid told me himself how he admired their biz model and sought to emulate it, and he explained how Fat records drew inspiration from the Dead biz model. He said a lot of old school American punks liked the Dead for their "fuck you" approach to the record industry.

Perry Farrell and Eddie Vetter both drew upon it and acknowledged the biz model as a source of inspiration. Pearl Jam hasn't done a hit song in years but they continue to sell out shows and thrive on selling their live stuff. Phish - don't even get me started. I don't like any of the tunes they write yet they figured it out. Vampire Weekend... and the list goes on...

Can you go to a Tool show and walk out with a live recording of it?

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Can you go to a Tool show and walk out with a live recording of it?

Unless it was a board mix I wouldn't want one. It's true, there are ways to game the game. Looks a Fat Mike and NOFX. I have a lot of respect for them. They beat the system, but I'm sure they wouldn't back digital piracy.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Granted, the Dead may not have had albums that were commercial, or music you didn't like, but so what? That isn't the point. The point is they figured out how to make money in spite of it and outside the control of what the labels did. They owned their music. They worked community. They made money. It was not just working because of "the times".

Tim Armstrong from Rancid told me himself how he admired their biz model and sought to emulate it, and he explained how Fat records drew inspiration from the Dead biz model. He said a lot of old school American punks liked the Dead for their "fuck you" approach to the record industry.

Perry Farrell and Eddie Vetter both drew upon it and acknowledged the biz model as a source of inspiration. Pearl Jam hasn't done a hit song in years but they continue to sell out shows and thrive on selling their live stuff. Phish - don't even get me started. I don't like any of the tunes they write yet they figured it out. Vampire Weekend... and the list goes on...

Can you go to a Tool show and walk out with a live recording of it?

In any industry there are always those that survive and thrive outside of the industry standard. They do things differently and are successful at it. The Dead struck a chord with certain people and were able to create a counterculture movement around themselves. Other bands have followed that idea with varying degrees of success. An example would be Blues Traveler. They built a fan base touring and putting out records on an indie label for years before they ever had a hit song.

You could make the argument that Pearl Jam doesn't really fall into the same category. They didn't build slowly from the ground up, they did it in reverse. They exploded on the scene and went from being an unknown band to the biggest band in the world almost overnight. They then worked hard to develop a grass roots fan base and treat those fans well. They used the less is more tactic. Instead of inundating their fans with products to buy they offered next to nothing. Instead of trying to sell fan club members a dozen different things they gave them free music and the ability to get concert tickets early and at reduced prices. When the huge fame disappeared those core fans stuck around. It also doesn't hurt that they are one of the best live bands you will ever see.

What I am getting at is that for every Grateful Dead, Phish, Blues Traveler etc out there there are dozens, if not hundreds of bands who have tried to do the same thing and failed. Large scale success in the music business is something that is nearly impossible. Just because a marketing tactic worked for one band does not mean it will work for all of them. Think of it like this. McDonald's is one of the biggest companies in the world. They got there by selling burgers and serving the food to you quickly. Does this mean if I open a place that sells burgers and I serve them to you quickly that I will have success? Not at all. Often times it is as simple as being in the right place at the right time with the right song.