a question about gun laws and regulation:

[Grapesoda]

seems to me that the issue with guns is human, not inanimate objects. the reality is that a gun is an INANIMATE OBJECT. really no way around that one... correct?

in other words guns are NOT coming alive, stalking people then killing them. do you agree with that?

so here the government and concerned people are trying to heavily regulate and in some extreme cases banning guns... correct? for the actions of a small minority of emotionally and mentally balanced individuals, correct?

so what about heavily regulating cars over drunk drivers.... isn't that just the exact same issue?

a small minority of emotionally and mentally unbalance people killing others with inanimate objects?

discuss...

[ThunderBalls]

Nuclear bombs are inanimate objects. Should everyone on the planet be allowed to have those too?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by ThunderBalls

Nuclear bombs are inanimate objects. Should everyone on the planet be allowed to have those too?

brilliant analytical mind you have there...

[L-Pink]

A large percentage of both auto and firearm injuries/deaths are committed by repeat offenders. Habitual drunks and habitual criminals. Solve this obvious problem before coming after and legislating against ordinary citizens.


.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

A large percentage of both auto and firearm injuries/deaths are committed by repeat offenders. Habitual drunks and habitual criminals. Solve this obvious problem before coming after and legislating against ordinary citizens.


.

very good point however that would take an actual solution which isn't really politically expedient, and really doesn't jive with the common narrative

[mikesouth]

On this we agree GS

If you think the war on drugs is a success yer gonna love the war on guns

[ThunderBalls]

[Rochard]

We have zero protections in place when it comes to firearms. None.

I have a friend of mine who suffers from Hydrocephalus. He has had a dozen brain surgeries in the past twenty years, is partially mentally retarded, is on a dozen different medications because of his "headaches" and diabetes, and has been seeing a therapist for depression for the past ten years - two failed marriages, two kids who live in a foreign country that he never sees, constantly broke, unable to work, no friends.... And no one questioned anything when he went and bought an AR15.

How is that possible?

Then now that he has the firepower no one wants to go to the local police department and say anything. I've had this discussion with his family. No one wants to call the local police and say "He's depressed and on tons of medication and might be a problem" - No one wants the police to show up at his doorstep to interview him and potentially list him as being a "threat to society" or locking him up in a mental ward. Everyone is just hoping he doesn't do anything to hurt anyone.

This scares the piss out of me. I honestly believe there are a lot of people who live on the edge of society, giving off the appearance that they are "perfectly normal" when in truth they barely have the IQ required to function as an adult. They are partially retarded, and some of them are armed. What's even worse is that we allow these people to drive - my friend john has had four accidents in three years (more than I've had my entire life!) and says "Not my fault they hit me".

How many people live in society acting like they are perfectly normal but aren't. A local friend of mine has a kid who is partially retarded. He lives in an assisted living facility, but has a real job. He is not allowed to drive. He seems like a nice kid - he's twenty-one or so - and we were all surprised when he got a girlfriend. We were even more surprised when he beat the crap out of her for no reason. Imagine if he was armed - and there is nothing stopping him from buying a firearm.

With driving, if you have a problem with driving while intoxicated we will take away your driver's license. That's common sense. If you have a problem with drugs or drinking, you shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm. At the same time, if you have a problem with violence, a temper, or any mental health issues, you shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm.

Common sense.

The NRA fucked us. After that school shooting their only response was "guards in schools". Nothing about expanding background requirements to include mental health issues. The end result is CT is about to pass a law that will punish gun owners.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We have zero protections in place when it comes to firearms. None.

I have a friend of mine who suffers from Hydrocephalus. He has had a dozen brain surgeries in the past twenty years, is partially mentally retarded, is on a dozen different medications because of his "headaches" and diabetes, and has been seeing a therapist for depression for the past ten years - two failed marriages, two kids who live in a foreign country that he never sees, constantly broke, unable to work, no friends.... And no one questioned anything when he went and bought an AR15.

How is that possible?

I agree and yet the politicians insist on punishing the innocent...

Then now that he has the firepower no one wants to go to the local police department and say anything. I've had this discussion with his family. No one wants to call the local police and say "He's depressed and on tons of medication and might be a problem" - No one wants the police to show up at his doorstep to interview him and potentially list him as being a "threat to society" or locking him up in a mental ward. Everyone is just hoping he doesn't do anything to hurt anyone.

This scares the piss out of me. I honestly believe there are a lot of people who live on the edge of society, giving off the appearance that they are "perfectly normal" when in truth they barely have the IQ required to function as an adult. They are partially retarded, and some of them are armed. What's even worse is that we allow these people to drive - my friend john has had four accidents in three years (more than I've had my entire life!) and says "Not my fault they hit me".

why don't you get involved? say something to someone who can do something?

How many people live in society acting like they are perfectly normal but aren't. A local friend of mine has a kid who is partially retarded. He lives in an assisted living facility, but has a real job. He is not allowed to drive. He seems like a nice kid - he's twenty-one or so - and we were all surprised when he got a girlfriend. We were even more surprised when he beat the crap out of her for no reason. Imagine if he was armed - and there is nothing stopping him from buying a firearm.

With driving, if you have a problem with driving while intoxicated we will take away your driver's license. That's common sense. If you have a problem with drugs or drinking, you shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm. At the same time, if you have a problem with violence, a temper, or any mental health issues, you shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm.

Common sense.

yes politicians get more votes pretending to resolve issues than actually resolving issues... gun murder is a HUMAN issue not a MECHANICAL issue yet no one wants to deal with the problem in a reality based way

The NRA fucked us. After that school shooting their only response was "guards in schools". Nothing about expanding background requirements to include mental health issues. The end result is CT is about to pass a law that will punish gun owners.

well not so sure about getting fucked by them Richard. it was pointed out that ex cops could do the job and it would be cheaper than trying to implement harsher gun regulations that won't actually be effective anyway HOEWEVER the real issue to me, is blaming inanimate object for human behavior and then trying to legislate that away. it's complete bullshit. like saying are pedophiles working in porn to pass regulations to try and put us out of business when we both know the pedophiles are in church's, schools and other areas with access to children... there are no kinds in porn, hence no pedophiles.

another example is rape in Islamic countries. she is a woman and no man was there so I raped her. I had no choice...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

why don't you get involved? say something to someone who can do something?

Get involved and do what? The only thing we can do is make a comment to the local police. At that point they would have to assess his mental health - which might require an over night stay at the local hospital. They might take his firearms away from him - he has a Glock and an AR15 - or they might decide he needs to be living in assisted living or worse.

No matter what happens, I've lost a friend. The mother is 89 years old and say she just says "Oh, that's John being John" and in the mean he decorates his house like a fourteen year old. His brothers and sisters don't want to face the chance of him being institutionalized.

My friend is really sad, and he's gotten a lot worse in the past ten years. He used to be able to hide his issues but he can't any longer. Any discussion past who the President is and he's lost. If you ask him about North Korea he'll have no clue, and when you ask him about 9/11 he'll say "that's sad" but couldn't tell you airplanes were involved. He has a 50/50 chance of remembering what day of the week it is. His brain shut down in the 1970s and that's all he'll ever know. Any time he gets confused, he'll talk about his ex-wife and his kids - whom has hasn't seen in ten years.

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

well not so sure about getting fucked by them Richard. it was pointed out that ex cops could do the job and it would be cheaper than trying to implement harsher gun regulations that won't actually be effective anyway HOEWEVER the real issue to me, is blaming inanimate object for human behavior and then trying to legislate that away. it's complete bullshit.

Not at all. Instead of even having a discussion about mental health or new guns, they only said "guards in schools". No discussion about who is going to pay for this, the dangers of having kids surrounded by armed guards, or the fact that during school shootings where guards are present it doesn't change anything.

They had armed guards at Columbine, spent a fortune for them, and at the end of day it failed to help in any way.

There was no chance of any discussion coming out of the NRA. At the very least we can all agree that people with mental health issues should be restricted from having firearms, but the NRA refused to even discuss it. Now the government is going to do what it wants without any input from the NRA.

The NRA used to be about gun safety. Now the NRA gets it's money from the gun industry. They are less interested in gun safety, and much more interested in putting armed guards in school - more training, more guns, and more people being paid to carry guns. Win win for the NRA.

[Robbie]

Rochard you said we have no "protection" against firearms.

I think GrapeSoda is pointing out that we don't NEED protection against a gun. We need protection against CRIMINALS.

And criminals will get a gun anytime they want one no matter what the law is...they are criminals.

As I keep saying...if our society has decided that we should disarm the population, then Congress should repeal the 2nd Amendment. That's part of their job.

In the meantime you have politicians trying to get face time on t.v. by enacting gun laws that will eventually be found to be unconstitutional in the end.

So just change the constitution.

Personally I don't care one way or another...except that until they change the 2nd Amendment they are infringing on my rights because of the actions of 1/100000000 of 1% of crazy people and criminals.

[Grapesoda]

nor the mentally ill Robbie... the politicians keep blaming inanimate objects

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Get involved and do what? The only thing we can do is make a comment to the local police. At that point they would have to assess his mental health - which might require an over night stay at the local hospital. They might take his firearms away from him - he has a Glock and an AR15 - or they might decide he needs to be living in assisted living or worse.

No matter what happens, I've lost a friend. The mother is 89 years old and say she just says "Oh, that's John being John" and in the mean he decorates his house like a fourteen year old. His brothers and sisters don't want to face the chance of him being institutionalized.

My friend is really sad, and he's gotten a lot worse in the past ten years. He used to be able to hide his issues but he can't any longer. Any discussion past who the President is and he's lost. If you ask him about North Korea he'll have no clue, and when you ask him about 9/11 he'll say "that's sad" but couldn't tell you airplanes were involved. He has a 50/50 chance of remembering what day of the week it is. His brain shut down in the 1970s and that's all he'll ever know. Any time he gets confused, he'll talk about his ex-wife and his kids - whom has hasn't seen in ten years.



Not at all. Instead of even having a discussion about mental health or new guns, they only said "guards in schools". No discussion about who is going to pay for this, the dangers of having kids surrounded by armed guards, or the fact that during school shootings where guards are present it doesn't change anything.

They had armed guards at Columbine, spent a fortune for them, and at the end of day it failed to help in any way.

There was no chance of any discussion coming out of the NRA. At the very least we can all agree that people with mental health issues should be restricted from having firearms, but the NRA refused to even discuss it. Now the government is going to do what it wants without any input from the NRA.

The NRA used to be about gun safety. Now the NRA gets it's money from the gun industry. They are less interested in gun safety, and much more interested in putting armed guards in school - more training, more guns, and more people being paid to carry guns. Win win for the NRA.

pretty sure the NRA suggested better screening..

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

brilliant analytical mind you have there...

In fact he does ... you are the stupid one , repeating these idiotic talking points of the NRA ....

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

In fact he does ... you are the stupid one , repeating these idiotic talking points of the NRA ....

so it was the atomics bomb fault that it was dropped or was it that since there was an a bomb we had to use it well because....


let's take a quick look at your analytical mind while you're here: 'you are the stupid' and 'idiotic talking points' I bet your bank account is humming dude, with a razor sharp mind like yours, I bet you're setting the world on fire... and hopefully they'll NEVER let you have a fucking gun

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I think GrapeSoda is pointing out that we don't NEED protection against a gun. We need protection against CRIMINALS.

Before that we need protection from the mentally ill. This is where the problem is. Shooters become a criminal the moment they shoot someone. However, they are mentally ill long before then.

Originally Posted by Robbie

And criminals will get a gun anytime they want one no matter what the law is...they are criminals.

Yet the crime rate - always historically higher than most cities - continues to enact more laws and watches the crime rate come down.

Originally Posted by Robbie

As I keep saying...if our society has decided that we should disarm the population, then Congress should repeal the 2nd Amendment. That's part of their job.

Perhaps we should discuss this.

I honestly believe that when the 2nd Amendment was written, firearms were a requirement. Law enforcement was spotty at best, and there was no such thing as animal control. We also didn't have a military, and relied on the militia to protect our country and our government.

None of these reasons exist any more. Law enforcement is a short phone call away, we don't worry much about cougars and bears, and we have the strongest military in the world. At the same time, violent crime in the United States continues to fall.

Originally Posted by Robbie

In the meantime you have politicians trying to get face time on t.v. by enacting gun laws that will eventually be found to be unconstitutional in the end.

This is what politicians do.

And this a part of the problem - not just with firearms but in general. Instead of being proactive, they wait until something happens then over react.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Personally I don't care one way or another...except that until they change the 2nd Amendment they are infringing on my rights because of the actions of 1/100000000 of 1% of crazy people and criminals.

I have firearms but if the government took them away in the morning I would quickly get over it.

Honestly, I am much more concerned about people's driving habits than firearms. The odds of some jack ass hitting me "by accident" is 100%, while the odds of someone invading my house are like .000006%.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Honestly, I am much more concerned about people's driving habits than firearms. The odds of some jack ass hitting me "by accident" is 100%, while the odds of someone invading my house are like .000006%.

Yep, getting killed in an automobile dwarfs everything else statistics-wise.

But being concerned about it is a waste of time. Just like it's a waste of time being concerned about gun control or where lightning might strike, etc.

We can try to make things better of course, but govt. always seems to overreach and use tragedies to their advantage to pursue agendas that we don't even know about.

My personal feeling is that people should worry more about their own behavior...and law enforcement should be used to arrest someone after they do a crime.

All this stuff of trying to predict crimes and stop them ahead of time reminds me of that movie "Minority Report".
Preemptive moves rarely work out the way people intend. (just look at the Iraq war for instance).

I say...IF somebody kills somebody, THEN arrest them and hold that person responsible for what he did. Right now it seems to me that there is a line of thinking that is heading towards trying to preemptively stop crimes before they happen.

I don't think that will work, and the end result will be even more govt. control over our lives. (which is why I say just repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it IF that's what our society has decided needs to be done).

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep, getting killed in an automobile dwarfs everything else statistics-wise.

The politically correct term "distracted driving" is bullshit. No one needs to use a cell phone/text while driving. If anything needs regulated it's the use of electronics in an automobile when attention should be focused on driving.

.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

The politically correct term "distracted driving" is bullshit. No one needs to use a cell phone/text while driving. If anything needs regulated it's the use of electronics in an automobile when attention should be focused on driving.

.

Yeah, but auto accidents have always been huge. Doesn't matter if you're distracted or not. Since I was a kid the roads have been dangerous and that was long before cellphones. That's just the way it is when you are driving a hunk of metal at high speeds. Shit happens.

They already have laws against using your cell phone in the car (at least here they do). But what's next? Hell, I've almost had a wreck changing the station on my radio before. I've also swerved around a little bit when I forgot to put my seat belt on and had to try to put it on while driving.

Stupid shit just happens. We try to avoid it the best we can.

Of course the govt. takes these laws (like seatbelts and cellphones in cars) and turns them into revenue streams. That's when it all goes south.

[Rochard]

Guns don't kill people, children do:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...695_story.html

That's got to suck...

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We have zero protections in place when it comes to firearms. None.

I have a friend of mine who suffers from Hydrocephalus. He has had a dozen brain surgeries in the past twenty years, is partially mentally retarded, is on a dozen different medications because of his "headaches" and diabetes, and has been seeing a therapist for depression for the past ten years - two failed marriages, two kids who live in a foreign country that he never sees, constantly broke, unable to work, no friends.... And no one questioned anything when he went and bought an AR15.

Bullshit.

Form 4473, Section 12, paragraph F.

If anybody is responsible for him owning a gun, it's the people who know he shouldn't and fail to report it.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yep, getting killed in an automobile dwarfs everything else statistics-wise.

depends on lifestyle Robbie, just like gun violence, other than random whack jobs and mass shootings...

But being concerned about it is a waste of time. Just like it's a waste of time being concerned about gun control or where lightning might strike, etc.

We can try to make things better of course, but govt. always seems to overreach and use tragedies to their advantage to pursue agendas that we don't even know about.

I'm almost of the belief that the need to be a politician is a mental illness. think about it, the 'need' to dominate and control other...and most politicians are sociopathic as well as dishonest as the day is long from what I can tell...

My personal feeling is that people should worry more about their own behavior...and law enforcement should be used to arrest someone after they do a crime.

All this stuff of trying to predict crimes and stop them ahead of time reminds me of that movie "Minority Report".
Preemptive moves rarely work out the way people intend. (just look at the Iraq war for instance).

pretty sure there is no mandate in the police agency's to protect, only to enforce. you'll notice the cops are now referred to as 'law enforcement' these days... the 'peace officer' days are long gone... kinda like bums are now homeless and illegals are now undocumented...

just as the days of 'personal responsibility are long gone with the influx of minority culture in modern society changing the perspectives to 'you owe me and you'll will take care of me and I demand respect' which replaced the personal responsibility that earlier generations were founded on.

I say...IF somebody kills somebody, THEN arrest them and hold that person responsible for what he did. Right now it seems to me that there is a line of thinking that is heading towards trying to preemptively stop crimes before they happen.

I don't think that will work, and the end result will be even more govt. control over our lives. (which is why I say just repeal the 2nd amendment and be done with it IF that's what our society has decided needs to be done).

one day I was messing around online and I came across last meals of executed prisoners... and one thing that really stood out to me was that in ALMOST every case of a death penalty, the condemned man had been in prison for man slaughter and had been released.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

so it was the atomics bomb fault that it was dropped or was it that since there was an a bomb we had to use it well because....

So why do they want to prevent Iran, NK, Venezuela, Cuba, etc ( all your dangerous ennemies ) from having nukes ??? Should not be a problem .. nukes are inert objects ...

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

let's take a quick look at your analytical mind while you're here: 'you are the stupid' and 'idiotic talking points' I bet your bank account is humming dude, with a razor sharp mind like yours, I bet you're setting the world on fire... and hopefully they'll NEVER let you have a fucking gun

.. don`t even try to go there ... some people here saw some of my bank accounts balances ... aside from my real estate holdings ...

To piss you off more, I will be vacationing in Cuba in 2 weeks ... as my 3 weeks in Florida ( feb-march) were pretty awfull due to lousy weather ...

You should get back to work , rent is coming soon ...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

So why do they want to prevent Iran, NK, Venezuela, Cuba, etc ( all your dangerous ennemies ) from having nukes ??? Should not be a problem .. nukes are inert objects ...




.. don`t even try to go there ... some people here saw some of my bank accounts balances ... aside from my real estate holdings ...

To piss you off more, I will be vacationing in Cuba in 2 weeks ... as my 3 weeks in Florida ( feb-march) were pretty awfull due to lousy weather ...

You should get back to work , rent is coming soon ...

doesn't matter to me what you do or where go... what you have and what you don't.. . you seriously think your that special that I give a fuck about you, other than wishing you the best? your might want to consider professional help 'bro' and from the 2 post in this thread I can 'see' that you certainly have an average at best thought process