IRS: We Targeted Conservative, Tea Party Groups With Extra Scrutiny

[wehateporn]

The IRS is a weapon which the Bankers use to fight their enemies

http://www.businessinsider.com/irs-t...vatives-2013-5

"The Internal Revenue Service admitted Friday to targeting conservative and Tea Party groups with additional scrutiny during the 2012 campaign, the Associated Press first reported.

IRS spokesperson Lois Lerner said at a conference in Washington that the agency apologized for the special emphasis and scrutiny in applications for tax-exempt status.

According to the AP, she said that organizations containing the words "Tea Party" or "patriot" were targeted for additional review, blaming that on "low-level" workers in Ohio.

Here is the full statement the IRS released later:

Between 2010 and 2012, the IRS saw the number of applications for section 501(c)(4) status double. As a result, local career employees in Cincinnati sought to centralize work and assign cases to designated employees in an effort to promote consistency and quality. This approach has worked in other areas. However, the IRS recognizes we should have done a better job of handling the influx of advocacy applications.

While centralizing cases for consistency made sense, the way we initially centralized them did not. Mistakes were made initially, but they were in no way due to any political or partisan rationale. We fixed the situation last year and have made significant progress in moving the centralized cases through our system. To date, more than half of the cases have been approved or withdrawn.

It is important to recognize that all centralized applications received the same, even-handed treatment, and the majority of cases centralized were not based on a specific name. In addition, new procedures also were implemented last year to ensure that these mistakes won?t be made in the future. The IRS also stresses that our employees - all career civil servants -- will continue to be guided by tax law and not partisan issues.

In a conference call later Friday with reporters, the IRS reiterated that it was not engaging in any political attacks by targeting groups with "Tea Party" and "patriot." But it couldn't point to other non-conservative or political-sounding words."

More here http://www.businessinsider.com/irs-t...vatives-2013-5

[L-Pink]

Heads need to roll for actions like this.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Heads need to roll for actions like this.

For sure, but the people right at the top can't be moved, this is what they use the IRS for, that's why they make so many rules so as they can take anyone down who they choose to

[blackmonsters]

Wow!

You mean a group that named itself after the Boston Tea Party which was a revolt
agaist paying taxes got looked at by the IRS?

Holly shit! Doesn't the IRS know that names don't mean anything?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Wow!

You mean a group that named itself after the Boston Tea Party which was a revolt
agaist paying taxes got looked at by the IRS?

Holly shit! Doesn't the IRS know that names don't mean anything?

I bet the very same people whom are outraged about the IRS looking at Tea Party groups also expect the FBI to better profile Muslims and Islamist Mosques.

They are the typical types that think that the world is their cupcake but no one else can have any.

[EddyTheDog]

It must be different in the US - The tax collectors and the banks would not be doing each other favors here...

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by crockett

I bet the very same people whom are outraged about the IRS looking at Tea Party groups also expect the FBI to better profile Muslims and Islamist Mosques.

They are the typical types that think that the world is their cupcake but no one else can have any.

So you are against the IRS putting extra pressure on a group that is vocal against the current administration?

[Rochard]

These groups are nothing more than non profit organizations to funnel money to political candidates without having to give out information about their donors.

[_Richard_]

she said that organizations containing the words "Tea Party" or "patriot" were targeted for additional review, blaming that on "low-level" workers in Ohio.

how to make a bad situation worse?

[Fat Panda]

this is sickening shit

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by EddyTheDog

It must be different in the US - The tax collectors and the banks would not be doing each other favors here...

it's no different here, that part was gibberjabber added by the op for dramatic sensationalism on an otherwise boring topic.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

it's no different here, that part was gibberjabber added by the op for dramatic sensationalism on an otherwise boring topic.

so you're saying kennedy didn't start using the IRS to go after his enemies?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so you're saying kennedy didn't start using the IRS to go after his enemies?

what the fuck are you rattling off about? that's what you read out of my reply re: the irs and the banks are in cahoots?

srsly? rly i mean really? really really?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

So you are against the IRS putting extra pressure on a group that is vocal against the current administration?

No, I'm against morons that think they will not be profiled when they act like idiots. painting big targets on their backs.

Would you bitch if the cops "profiled" a guy that had 420 stickers all over his car while driving around a nice neighborhood blaring gang banger music? Would you bitch if you were about to get on a plane and the guy behind you was checked by airport security because his wife was with him wearing a berka?

Of course you wouldn't.

The IRS is just like the cops, FBI or whom ever.. They look for signs as reason to audit. You paint a target on your back you are likely going to be audited.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

what the fuck are you rattling off about? that's what you read out of my reply re: the irs and the banks are in cahoots?

srsly? rly i mean really? really really?

ill do this real slow:

you were referring to this:

The IRS is a weapon which the Bankers use to fight their enemies

while responding with:

it's no different here, that part was gibberjabber added by the op for dramatic sensationalism on an otherwise boring topic.

when the powers that be have been using the IRS as a weapon for the past 50 years, and with that logic, the entire time it's been in existence.

still confused?

[wehateporn]

- Rothschild's UN Agenda matched up with the Democrat Agenda

- Rothschild owns the Federal Reserve

- IRS is Federal Reserve Collection/Enforcement Agency

- Rothschild uses IRS to attack enemies


When Obama became president 10 Rothschild agents were put into place i.e. Rhodes Scholars



Rothschild Agents Take 10 Key
American Free Press


"Six former Rhodes Scholars (educated at Oxford University in Britain) and four others associated with the London School of Economics are serving in key posts in the Obama administration. That's not good."

Our greatest founding father and first president, George Washington, probably wouldn't be ready to celebrate his birthday on Feb. 22 if he were alive today. Having led the 13 colonies to independence from the British Empire in 1783, following the course of a difficult eight-year struggle by those freedom-loving American colonists who followed him, Washington (who lived from 1732 to 1799) would most assuredly be appalled to see that the liberties achieved from the American Revolution are now being flagrantly defied by a number of figures who populate the upper ranks of the administration of Barack Obama.

Six former Rhodes Scholars (educated at Oxford University in Britain) and four others associated with the London School of Economics are serving in key posts in the Obama administration. That's not good.

Top: Rice, McFaul, Kagan, Slaughter, and Wolin
Bottom: Emanuel, Summers, Orszag, Rouse, and Sutphen

Here are 10 of the key "British"-that is, Rothschild -operatives now ensconced in the Obama administration (more can be expected):

Susan Rice - ambassador to the UN; Michael McFaul - head of the Russian desk at the National Security Council; Elena Kagan - solicitor general of the United States; Anne-Marie Slaughter - State Department policy planning staff; Neal S.Wolin - deputy counsel to the president for economic policy; Ezekial Emanuel - senior counselor at the White House Office of Management and Budget on health care policy; Lawrence Summers - head of the National Economic Council; Peter Orszag - director of the Office of Management and Budget; Peter Rouse - senior advisor to the president; Mona Sutphen - deputy chief of the White House staff.

The truth about the Rhodes Scholarships is not known to the average American who is constantly told by the mass media that Rhodes Scholars (such as former President Bill Clinton) are among "the best and the brightest."

The Rhodes Scholarships-awarded to Americans and students from other former British colonies-are funded by a trust set up by 19th Century British imperial figure Cecil Rhodes, whose intent was to indoctrinate these scholars with the theme that the American colonies should be reunited with the British Empire and that they should work through "public service" to achieve that goal. But Rhodes wasn't just some rich madcap dreamer. His ventures were underwritten by the international Rothschild dynasty operating from the financial district in London known as "The City"-the banking center of the Rothschild controlled British empire that also includes the London School of Economics.

So now a clique of internationalists trained in the idea of extinguishing American independence are ensconced in the Obama administration.

And another Rhodes Scholar, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, is widely touted as the great Grand Old Party candidate to "take back the White House" in 2012. Jindal doesn't offer "change." He-like the other globalists in the Obama administration-is part of the problem.

All of this is not a "conspiracy theory." Rather, these facts are well known to those familiar with what the Rhodes scholarships are really about."

[dyna mo]

jesus, richard, give it a break. you can and do try and spin EVERY comment you can.

no wonder people around here always talk shit about you. i tried to give you room, i even had an exchange with you about that a while back.

but jeez dude. knock it off man. try and find the middle ground once or twice, it's always there. choice is your's.

until then, you can spin other's comments till you're dizzy(ier) than usual and peeps will keep replying to you with replies like this.

[dyna mo]

see what i mean? the irs/bank connection is the rothchilds!

jesus fucking christ that's a classic.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

jesus, richard, give it a break. you can and do try and spin EVERY comment you can.

no wonder people around here always talk shit about you. i tried to give you room, i even had an exchange with you about that a while back.

but jeez dude. knock it off man. try and find the middle ground once or twice, it's always there. choice is your's.

until then, you can spin other's comments till you're dizzy(ier) than usual and peeps will keep replying to you with replies like this.

spin comments? you said the comment was sensationalist, whereas it's provable fact

btw:



im happy you joined the woman haters club, the 'i don't like what you say, so i hope you die in an airplane' club.. great minds, yes?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by crockett

No, I'm against morons that think they will not be profiled when they act like idiots. painting big targets on their backs.

Would you bitch if the cops "profiled" a guy that had 420 stickers all over his car while driving around a nice neighborhood blaring gang banger music? Would you bitch if you were about to get on a plane and the guy behind you was checked by airport security because his wife was with him wearing a berka?

Of course you wouldn't.

The IRS is just like the cops, FBI or whom ever.. They look for signs as reason to audit. You paint a target on your back you are likely going to be audited.

The Tea Party had rallies that were peaceful and they had a simple goal, adhere to the constitution, stop wasteful spending and reduce the national debt.

Your analogy of the car playing gang banger music is flawed, that breaks local noise ordinances and the cops should deal with that because is disturbs the peace, the Tea Party is only putting questions to the present administration and is admittedly being targeted thru use of the IRS.

The present administration is targeting groups against their agenda, period, this is political subjugation

[dyna mo]

typical gfy exchange with richard

1st person: scientist prove 2+2 = 4

richrad: so you are saying we didn't land on the moon, yes?

1st person: wtf just happened?

[_Richard_]

and yet you can't defend your own statement?

[Barefootsies]

When are they going to target Vendzilla?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The Tea Party had rallies that were peaceful and they had a simple goal, adhere to the constitution, stop wasteful spending and reduce the national debt.

Your analogy of the car playing gang banger music is flawed, that breaks local noise ordinances and the cops should deal with that because is disturbs the peace, the Tea Party is only putting questions to the present administration and is admittedly being targeted thru use of the IRS.

The present administration is targeting groups against their agenda, period, this is political subjugation

Yea the Tea Party had peaceful rallies.. Umm hey so did OWS and the cops sure as hell abused their power with them. The Tea Party was filled with racist old hags and new world order loons.

Aside from that I'm sick of seeing the right abuse the system to get what they want then crying like little babies soon as it happens to them. Want to get treated fairly, then quit trying to constantly abuse the system.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by crockett

Yea the Tea Party had peaceful rallies.. Umm hey so did OWS and the cops sure as hell abused their power with them. The Tea Party was filled with racist old hags and new world order loons.

Aside from that I'm sick of seeing the right abuse the system to get what they want then crying like little babies soon as it happens to them. Want to get treated fairly, then quit trying to constantly abuse the system.

tea party is weird cause there is so many 'groups' within it.. for one side, that group was heavily funded by the Koch brothers etc

[baddog]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

what the fuck are you rattling off about? that's what you read out of my reply re: the irs and the banks are in cahoots?

srsly? rly i mean really? really really?

You were warned.

Originally Posted by crockett

. . . . . Umm hey so did OWS and the cops sure as hell abused their power with them.

Wrong.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by baddog

You were warned.




Wrong.

whew, so true.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

tea party is weird cause there is so many 'groups' within it.. for one side, that group was heavily funded by the Koch brothers etc

Of course it was.. Tea Party was created for Big Tobacco by the Koch brothers. It's no conspiracy theory it's been proven as fact.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/conten...50815.abstract

The Tea Party was nothing but an underhand attempt to manipulate the public by big business. They simply used the sheep to push their message. Of course the IRS was going to check them out and now we have to act as if "oh my".

[crockett]

Originally Posted by baddog

Wrong.

This officer strongly disagrees with your opinion..



OWS was filled with weirdos and loons as well but I sure as hell remember it being a common thing for Tea Party supporters to bash them.. Calling them criminals and deadbeats and saying they deserved what they got when the police acted like this.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

I bet the very same people whom are outraged about the IRS looking at Tea Party groups also expect the FBI to better profile Muslims and Islamist Mosques.

They are the typical types that think that the world is their cupcake but no one else can have any.

crockett, you don't ever seemed to be too worried about what the govt. does.

Me? I'm not a bit surprised by crap that the U.S. Gov. pulls on it's people.
In the end they are a bunch of corrupt lifetime politicians whose only interest is their power. And history (including every Congress and President right up to & including the current one) shows that our govt. does the most shady and nasty things to it's own citizens and people around the world.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by crockett

This officer strongly disagrees with your opinion..

And I disagree with your definition of peaceful rallies. One group had permits; the other did not. Can you guess which is which?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by crockett

Yea the Tea Party had peaceful rallies.. Umm hey so did OWS and the cops sure as hell abused their power with them. The Tea Party was filled with racist old hags and new world order loons.

Aside from that I'm sick of seeing the right abuse the system to get what they want then crying like little babies soon as it happens to them. Want to get treated fairly, then quit trying to constantly abuse the system.

I read the study a college student did about the claims of racism against the Tea Party and it turned out false and most of the signs that people saw stating racist quotes were actually liberals trying to put a bad face on the Tea Party.

Where did they cry like little babies? They were protesting because of they believed the country is going in the wrong direction, do you think all those people shouldn't have a voice? When the GOP gets back in power, should the liberals be silenced?

The abuse you talk about is being used by the present administration using the IRS to hurt people that spoke up, it's wrong.

Believe it or not, there are people in this world that thinks the constitution is what we should be following, that we should have a balanced budget, that we shouldn't have a healthcare law with over 20,000 pages of regulations, that the patriot act should be stricken from the books. That we shouldn't be sending drones into countries that we are not at war with.

Funny thing is Obama is the one that released this, most think it's because he wants to take some of the pressure off the whole Benghanzi screw up

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by baddog

You were warned.




Wrong.

you're always so friendly in person.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

crockett, you don't ever seemed to be too worried about what the govt. does.

Me? I'm not a bit surprised by crap that the U.S. Gov. pulls on it's people.
In the end they are a bunch of corrupt lifetime politicians whose only interest is their power. And history (including every Congress and President right up to & including the current one) shows that our govt. does the most shady and nasty things to it's own citizens and people around the world.

No I'm just tired of the right constantly abusing it's powers and using the govt as a way to force their believes on the population and then turning around crying when the same thing happens to them.

Seems when the shoe gets put on the other foot they don't seem to like it but it's sure fine and dandy when they do it.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by crockett

Of course it was.. Tea Party was created for Big Tobacco by the Koch brothers. It's no conspiracy theory it's been proven as fact.

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/conten...50815.abstract

The Tea Party was nothing but an underhand attempt to manipulate the public by big business. They simply used the sheep to push their message. Of course the IRS was going to check them out and now we have to act as if "oh my".

yea, but did it start like that? or was it an honest creation by republican voters to 'fix the party'

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by baddog

And I disagree with your definition of peaceful rallies. One group had permits; the other did not. Can you guess which is which?

permits? you need a permit for your bill of rights to apply?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

yea, but did it start like that? or was it an honest creation by republican voters to 'fix the party'

This is the too long didn't read version.. This was a study on the Tea Party by the American Cancer Inatute that linked the founding groups of the Tea Party, (Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks) to big Tobacco.

It was never grass roots .. It wasn't hijacked it was straight up founded by the Koch Bros for Big Tobacco as a anti corporate tax movement..

Abstract
Background The Tea Party, which gained prominence in the USA in 2009, advocates limited government and low taxes. Tea Party organisations, particularly Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, oppose smoke-free laws and tobacco taxes.

Methods We used the Legacy Tobacco Documents Library, the Wayback Machine, Google, LexisNexis, the Center for Media and Democracy and the Center for Responsive Politics (opensecrets.org) to examine the tobacco companies’ connections to the Tea Party.

Results Starting in the 1980s, tobacco companies worked to create the appearance of broad opposition to tobacco control policies by attempting to create a grassroots smokers’ rights movement. Simultaneously, they funded and worked through third-party groups, such as Citizens for a Sound Economy, the predecessor of AFP and FreedomWorks, to accomplish their economic and political agenda. There has been continuity of some key players, strategies and messages from these groups to Tea Party organisations. As of 2012, the Tea Party was beginning to spread internationally.

Conclusions Rather than being a purely grassroots movement that spontaneously developed in 2009, the Tea Party has developed over time, in part through decades of work by the tobacco industry and other corporate interests. It is important for tobacco control advocates in the USA and internationally, to anticipate and counter Tea Party opposition to tobacco control policies and ensure that policymakers, the media and the public understand the longstanding connection between the tobacco industry, the Tea Party and its associated organisations.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

No I'm just tired of the right constantly abusing it's powers and using the govt as a way to force their believes on the population and then turning around crying when the same thing happens to them.

Seems when the shoe gets put on the other foot they don't seem to like it but it's sure fine and dandy when they do it.

crockett, you can change the word "right" to "left" and it's all the same thing.
That's what I'm saying.

They are all corrupt politicians and all do whatever it takes to keep their power. People getting caught up in the fantasy game they created of "right vs. left" is what allows them to continue to do it.

This thread is an excellent example. EVERYBODY should be outraged that the Govt ORDERED the IRS to go after certain people.
It wasn't the IRS determining that these people needed to be targeted...the order came from outside the agency.

Liberals and conservatives should all be outraged at this and demanding answers.

But our Machiavellian politicians know how to play it. And instead of a discussion on what actually happened...it's just another round of arguing about how "bad" the Tea Party or the OWS or Koch Brothers or George Soros are.

NONE of them are in the same league of "bad" as the Govt. is. Yet, we are once again giving the feds a free pass and arguing amongst ourselves.

Gotta admit it's pure genius on the govt.'s part.
Looks like they can pretty much get away with doing anything...and by keeping the people divided into 2 camps, one side will always let it slide and defend the govt. action.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by crockett

No I'm just tired of the right constantly abusing it's powers and using the govt as a way to force their believes on the population and then turning around crying when the same thing happens to them.

Seems when the shoe gets put on the other foot they don't seem to like it but it's sure fine and dandy when they do it.

Dems have been in control since 2006

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The Tea Party had rallies that were peaceful and they had a simple goal, adhere to the constitution, stop wasteful spending and reduce the national debt.

Awesome.

And the IRS is tasked with finding people who abuse non profit status for personal gain - or political gain. They targeted a new group of non profits, which makes sense. The IRS most likely targets groups that are new or have a history of abuse.

All of these groups - be it Tea Party, Republican, or Democrat - are just fronts for channelling money to campaigns without having to list donors. All of these groups should be targeted by the IRS and investigated.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Dems have been in control since 2006

and the Republicans have abused the filibuster to grind any sort of progress to a halt.

You don't have to have the white house to abuse the system and it goes way fucking beyond DC.

Republicans have been gerrymandering the elections drawing and redrawing district lines in many key states such as Florida trying to steal elections. When I lived in Daytona I never moved but I voted in 3 different districts due to gerrymandering.

Abortion, Gay rights.. ect..ect.. All are ways the Right tries to force it's views and ideals on the majority.

Fucking creationism is being taught in PUBLIC schools.. Need I really say more?

As far as I'm concerned the Right is at war with this country. I no longer have any tolerance for them. I don't give the Left a free pass, I don't agree with their stance on immigration, taxes and overly strict gun control as well as various other things but at least they don't try to take my freedom away and force religious ideology on me.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Gotta admit it's pure genius on the govt.'s part.
Looks like they can pretty much get away with doing anything...and by keeping the people divided into 2 camps, one side will always let it slide and defend the govt. action.

genius on the government part, or big business?

it's funny how every conversation focuses on 'government'; when really these are just paid actors doing a job

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

genius on the government part, or big business?

it's funny how every conversation focuses on 'government'; when really these are just paid actors doing a job

That is only your opinion. You have absolutely no way of knowing what is going on (neither do I)

All I know for a fact is: I've seen the govt. take DOWN some big businesses when it wanted to. And only the govt. can make laws that regulate or don't regulate big business.
I vote for govt. officials. Not big business managers.

So in my OPINION, it's the crooks in Washington (and local govts) who are to blame.

The "big business" guys are only doing what they should be doing: trying to gain a competitive edge.

That is NOT what our govt. officials are supposed to be doing. But yet, there they are with their greasy hands out to collect as much money as they can.

Do I think "big business" is the real power? Nope. But again, that's just my opinion.
I base it on the fact that so many people spend tens of millions of dollars to get elected to Congress...which pays $174,000 a year.

Think about that.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Robbie

That is only your opinion. You have absolutely no way of knowing what is going on (neither do I)

All I know for a fact is: I've seen the govt. take DOWN some big businesses when it wanted to. And only the govt. can make laws that regulate or don't regulate big business.
I vote for govt. officials. Not big business managers.

So in my OPINION, it's the crooks in Washington (and local govts) who are to blame.

The "big business" guys are only doing what they should be doing: trying to gain a competitive edge.

That is NOT what our govt. officials are supposed to be doing. But yet, there they are with their greasy hands out to collect as much money as they can.

Do I think "big business" is the real power? Nope. But again, that's just my opinion.
I base it on the fact that so many people spend tens of millions of dollars to get elected to Congress...which pays $174,000 a year.

Think about that.

with that logic, wouldn't everything be an opinion?

enron is a great example of 'big business just trying to get the edge'.. yet that state is almost broken due to the amount of deregulation that occurred

would this still be the fault of just the state-level government?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by crockett

and the Republicans have abused the filibuster to grind any sort of progress to a halt.

You don't have to have the white house to abuse the system and it goes way fucking beyond DC.

Republicans have been gerrymandering the elections drawing and redrawing district lines in many key states such as Florida trying to steal elections. When I lived in Daytona I never moved but I voted in 3 different districts due to gerrymandering.

Abortion, Gay rights.. ect..ect.. All are ways the Right tries to force it's views and ideals on the majority.

Fucking creationism is being taught in PUBLIC schools.. Need I really say more?

As far as I'm concerned the Right is at war with this country. I no longer have any tolerance for them. I don't give the Left a free pass, I don't agree with their stance on immigration, taxes and overly strict gun control as well as various other things but at least they don't try to take my freedom away and force religious ideology on me.

Reagan voiced against the Briggs initiative backing Harvey Milk

Abortion shouldn't be part of either parties strategy, it should be controlled by the states.

Redrawing districts has been done by both parties

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by crockett

and the Republicans have abused the filibuster to grind any sort of progress to a halt.

You don't have to have the white house to abuse the system and it goes way fucking beyond DC.

Republicans have been gerrymandering the elections drawing and redrawing district lines in many key states such as Florida trying to steal elections. When I lived in Daytona I never moved but I voted in 3 different districts due to gerrymandering.

Abortion, Gay rights.. ect..ect.. All are ways the Right tries to force it's views and ideals on the majority.

Fucking creationism is being taught in PUBLIC schools.. Need I really say more?

As far as I'm concerned the Right is at war with this country. I no longer have any tolerance for them. I don't give the Left a free pass, I don't agree with their stance on immigration, taxes and overly strict gun control as well as various other things but at least they don't try to take my freedom away and force religious ideology on me.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

with that logic, wouldn't everything be an opinion?

enron is a great example of 'big business just trying to get the edge'.. yet that state is almost broken due to the amount of deregulation that occurred

would this still be the fault of just the state-level government?

No, just a FACT that two guys like us with no inside knowledge of the subject can only speculate (opinion)

And as you know...opinions are like assholes, everybody has one & they all stink.

As for the decades old Enron subject...YES, it is the politicians who TOOK the money and allowed that company to do things that were dangerous.

Dude...you can only buy what is for sale. The politicians JOB isn't to be for sale. But that is what they are doing.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Robbie

No, just a FACT that two guys like us with no inside knowledge of the subject can only speculate (opinion)

And as you know...opinions are like assholes, everybody has one & they all stink.

As for the decades old Enron subject...YES, it is the politicians who TOOK the money and allowed that company to do things that were dangerous.

Dude...you can only buy what is for sale. The politicians JOB isn't to be for sale. But that is what they are doing.

the.. subject of government?

anyways, i agreed with what you said about divide and conquer.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

the.. subject of government?

anyways, i agreed with what you said about divide and conquer.

Yeah, the subject of the shady behind closed doors illegal deals that politicians do every day with the highest bidder. We have no way of knowing what is going on. We only see the results.

And your perspective is that it's "Big Business" who is at fault.
Mine is that it's the Govt. with all the power and they sell their power to the highest bidder.

In the end, we all get fucked...I'm just surprised at how successful the govt. has gotten at manipulating the population.
Back in the 1960's/early 1970's people protested against our govt.

Now...nothing. Hell, the media (who are supposed to be the watchdogs of govt.) haven't even shown any inclination to do what was once referred to as "investigative journalism".

These days they just go to the press room, get a copy of the official White House statements...and report it as fact.

Instead of "embedding" with the troops in Iraq and scrambling to be the biggest ass kisser to the White House so they could get the "good" assigned "embeddment"...they should have been investigating the Bush admin's claims that there were "Weapons Of Mass Destruction".

After that embarrassment, I would think they would have straightened up. But no...they continue to NOT do their job with the Obama administration.

The govt. seems to have it all wrapped up from my point of view.

Nobody is questioning them or holding them accountable. The media doesn't. And the people argue amongst themselves (like we are doing).

Textbook example of misdirection. Penn & Teller couldn't do it any better.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Awesome.

And the IRS is tasked with finding people who abuse non profit status for personal gain - or political gain. They targeted a new group of non profits, which makes sense. The IRS most likely targets groups that are new or have a history of abuse.

All of these groups - be it Tea Party, Republican, or Democrat - are just fronts for channelling money to campaigns without having to list donors. All of these groups should be targeted by the IRS and investigated.

Then let them target non profit status, not the Tea Party. It as a whole should not be targeted solely because they spoke up against what they believed was wrong by the people they are speaking up against.

No one should be targeted for speaking up