Self defense - GoFuckYourself.com

Mutt · 07-11-2013, 09:39 PM

The Zimmerman case got me thinking about the defense of 'self defense'.

If I'm at the grocery store and some douchebag pushes me and cuts in front of me at the checkout, i'm pissed, he pays for his groceries and exits, 2 minutes later I exit the store and he's there and i say to him 'you're an asshole' and he replies 'fuck off crybaby' and i walk over and get in his face, one of us pushes the other and we start wrestling/punching, pretty much a mutual agreement to fight and as we're wrestling he gets the upper hand on me and has me on the ground and is punching my face, if I have a gun and can get to it I can shoot him? that's self defense?

that is insane if true - one person could think to himself as he's getting his face punched in 'this guy is stronger than me and he's going to keep punching my face in and hell he could cause my brain to hemmorhage, oh my god i'm gonna die' and another person, one who is tougher or stupider has probably been in fights before and all he's worried about is how bad his face is going to be messed up, it doesn't enter his mind that the beating he's taking could kill him.

how many physical altercations without weapons happen a year, probably tens of thousands, and how many deaths result from those type of altercations? probably a very small percentage.

Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon Martin saw his gun and was going for it - and why he grabbed it before Martin could get it and used it. I believe Zimmerman's story except that part, I think he was getting beaten in a fist fight with a teenager, possibly panicked and grabbed his gun and shot the kid. I don't believe it was self defense.

TheSquealer · 07-11-2013, 09:41 PM

The laws and definitions vary from state to state. There is no blanket "yes" or "no" answer. Regardless of the hypotheticals, you still have to argue your case in court.

Some states make it very easy to shoot people. Texas is one for example. You might recall the hooker that got shot for walking out with 150.00 of the clients money and the guy got off.

Rochard · 07-11-2013, 10:10 PM

There is no single answer.

I am a former Marine, so my definition of self defense means the other person is armed with some kind of weapon that can create "great bodily harm".

Sorry, but you shouldn't be able to use deadly force when someone punches you. That's overkill. And killing.

TCLGirls · 07-11-2013, 10:17 PM

Usually the initial aggressor (physical) loses the defense of "self defense". So in your scenario, it would need to be determined who actually initiated the physical portion of the confrontation.

venus · 07-11-2013, 11:46 PM

when I took my concealed weapons course, and Arizona is a no retreat state, all this is, or is suppose to be explained to you. Not everyone is the same size, if Mike Tyson comes up to you and says he is gonna beat you to death with his bear hands, and you feel that he is capable of it, and assaults you, then you have every legal right to defend your self with deadly force. You can be all macho and go toe to toe with him, the result will probably be he wins, and with his size and strength, he may be able to kill or seriously injure you just by punching you...
but if some little guy says that to you and you and bigger and stronger, you would have less of a case of using deadly force if all you had to do was push him down and he runs away.

now if a girl is walking to her car and a bunch of guys surround her, and she feels they are going to harm her, she has the right to pull her stuff and open up on them.

the thing is to use common sense, if someone hits you and walks away, they are no longer a threat, you call the police.. It was also made really clear, that if you start something with someone, you better not pull out your gun. You cannot start an altercation and then assume you can just pull out a gun if it does not go your way. A gun is for self defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

There is no single answer.

I am a former Marine, so my definition of self defense means the other person is armed with some kind of weapon that can create "great bodily harm".

Sorry, but you shouldn't be able to use deadly force when someone punches you. That's overkill. And killing.

mromro · 07-12-2013, 08:00 AM

My friend got punched once and almost died.

TheSquealer · 07-12-2013, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mromro

My friend got punched once and almost died.

Yeah, this is why if you lay a hand on someone, you go to jail almost anywhere in the US... with no if's and's or buts. It's true in Dutch Harbor Alaska just as much as its true in some swamp villiage in Louisiana.

Clearly the law everywhere has a very harsh view of physical assault

Juicy D. Links · 07-12-2013, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Yeah, this is why if you lay a hand on someone, you go to jail almost anywhere in the US... with no if's and's or buts. It's true in Dutch Harbor Alaska just as much as its true in some swamp villiage in Louisiana.

Clearly the law everywhere has a very harsh view of physical assault

that "depends"............. it can be "harassment" .... depends on how much you got fucked up....

dyna mo · 07-12-2013, 08:07 AM

any of you homos touch me, and i'll kill you.

TheSquealer · 07-12-2013, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

that "depends"............. it can be "harassment" .... depends on how much you got fucked up....

I'm not aware of someone punching someone else in the face and it being called harassment in any state or city. If thats true, i want to live there. I'd be "harassing" people all day long.

L-Pink · 07-12-2013, 08:12 AM

5ft.-10, 175 pounds …… The average size of a Navy Seal team member.

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Juicy D. Links · 07-12-2013, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I'm not aware of someone punching someone else in the face and it being called harassment in any state or city. If thats true, i want to live there. I'd be "harassing" people all day long.

Day after Hurricane Sandy in NY I got punched once guy got in car then took off , we had plates and so forth and witnesss...

Maybe it was just because of the chaos at the time of the hurricane but my options were limited and I was taken to ER and given stitches and the works...

It was classic road rage incident and since he didnt hit my car at the Intersection and took off there was no "hit n run" to consider...

L-Pink · 07-12-2013, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicy D. Links

Day after Hurricane Sandy in NY I got punched once guy got in car then took off

NY version of "tag, you're it?"

.

Juicy D. Links · 07-12-2013, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

NY version of "tag, you're it?"

.

dyna mo · 07-12-2013, 08:24 AM

the only self-defense that's important to me is my home defense. got that covered. on the streets, i walk away, never confrontational. i think i've realized nothing on the streets, in the grocery store, etc, is important enough to become emotionally invested in.

nothing to argue, by all means, you first. :-) but i do keep my head on a swivel.

bronco67 · 07-12-2013, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

The Zimmerman case got me thinking about the defense of 'self defense'.

If I'm at the grocery store and some douchebag pushes me and cuts in front of me at the checkout, i'm pissed, he pays for his groceries and exits, 2 minutes later I exit the store and he's there and i say to him 'you're an asshole' and he replies 'fuck off crybaby' and i walk over and get in his face, one of us pushes the other and we start wrestling/punching, pretty much a mutual agreement to fight and as we're wrestling he gets the upper hand on me and has me on the ground and is punching my face, if I have a gun and can get to it I can shoot him? that's self defense?

that is insane if true - one person could think to himself as he's getting his face punched in 'this guy is stronger than me and he's going to keep punching my face in and hell he could cause my brain to hemmorhage, oh my god i'm gonna die' and another person, one who is tougher or stupider has probably been in fights before and all he's worried about is how bad his face is going to be messed up, it doesn't enter his mind that the beating he's taking could kill him.

how many physical altercations without weapons happen a year, probably tens of thousands, and how many deaths result from those type of altercations? probably a very small percentage.

Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon Martin saw his gun and was going for it - and why he grabbed it before Martin could get it and used it. I believe Zimmerman's story except that part, I think he was getting beaten in a fist fight with a teenager, possibly panicked and grabbed his gun and shot the kid. I don't believe it was self defense.

This is why the defense attorney's closing statement has asked the jury to be careful when using common sense in their decision. He literally said that.

What you just said is common sense. You shouldn't be able to shoot someone if you're losing a fistfight. ESPECIALLY if you're the one who seeked out the fight in the first place.

The decision to put Zimmerman in prison is common sense. But he'll walk because legally he should be able to squeak by...as long as the jurors don't apply common sense.

George Zimmerman is like a lot of people who carry guns. They're scared of what might happen out there in the big, scary world -- and deep down they're just itching for a chance to be a hero and shoot some bad guy.

07-11-2013, 09:39 PM	#1
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	Self defense The Zimmerman case got me thinking about the defense of 'self defense'. If I'm at the grocery store and some douchebag pushes me and cuts in front of me at the checkout, i'm pissed, he pays for his groceries and exits, 2 minutes later I exit the store and he's there and i say to him 'you're an asshole' and he replies 'fuck off crybaby' and i walk over and get in his face, one of us pushes the other and we start wrestling/punching, pretty much a mutual agreement to fight and as we're wrestling he gets the upper hand on me and has me on the ground and is punching my face, if I have a gun and can get to it I can shoot him? that's self defense? that is insane if true - one person could think to himself as he's getting his face punched in 'this guy is stronger than me and he's going to keep punching my face in and hell he could cause my brain to hemmorhage, oh my god i'm gonna die' and another person, one who is tougher or stupider has probably been in fights before and all he's worried about is how bad his face is going to be messed up, it doesn't enter his mind that the beating he's taking could kill him. how many physical altercations without weapons happen a year, probably tens of thousands, and how many deaths result from those type of altercations? probably a very small percentage. Zimmerman's story is that Trayvon Martin saw his gun and was going for it - and why he grabbed it before Martin could get it and used it. I believe Zimmerman's story except that part, I think he was getting beaten in a fist fight with a teenager, possibly panicked and grabbed his gun and shot the kid. I don't believe it was self defense. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

07-11-2013, 09:41 PM	#2
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,158	The laws and definitions vary from state to state. There is no blanket "yes" or "no" answer. Regardless of the hypotheticals, you still have to argue your case in court. Some states make it very easy to shoot people. Texas is one for example. You might recall the hooker that got shot for walking out with 150.00 of the clients money and the guy got off. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard Last edited by TheSquealer; 07-11-2013 at 09:44 PM..

07-11-2013, 10:10 PM	#3
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,707	There is no single answer. I am a former Marine, so my definition of self defense means the other person is armed with some kind of weapon that can create "great bodily harm". Sorry, but you shouldn't be able to use deadly force when someone punches you. That's overkill. And killing. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

07-11-2013, 10:17 PM	#4
TCLGirls Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: California Posts: 3,068	Usually the initial aggressor (physical) loses the defense of "self defense". So in your scenario, it would need to be determined who actually initiated the physical portion of the confrontation.

07-12-2013, 08:00 AM	#6
mromro So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 770	My friend got punched once and almost died.

07-12-2013, 08:07 AM	#9
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,906	any of you homos touch me, and i'll kill you.

07-12-2013, 08:12 AM	#11
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	5ft.-10, 175 pounds …… The average size of a Navy Seal team member. .

07-12-2013, 08:24 AM	#15
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 64,906	the only self-defense that's important to me is my home defense. got that covered. on the streets, i walk away, never confrontational. i think i've realized nothing on the streets, in the grocery store, etc, is important enough to become emotionally invested in. nothing to argue, by all means, you first. :-) but i do keep my head on a swivel.