DynaMo - Was it the Keto diet you was/are doing?

[Si]

DynaMo - Was it the Keto diet you was/are doing?

I was just reading about the Paleo diet, which is apparently similar, but a bit more strict? I don't know, they both sound interesting though.

Just wondering if you're still on it, how's it going etc?

I done my first near 18 hour fast yesterday, totally by accident haha.

[dyna mo]

yup, it's a stricter atkins eating plan, or atkins is a less strict keto diet. not sure which came 1st.

but i am not on that any longer, i like my energy from carbs, i'm not sure keto is sustainable longterm though, unless as treatment for children with epilepsy, i believe. and i did it to cut fat.

i am fasting daily though, typically 14-16 hour fast every day.

that's based on th protocols set-up by http://www.leangains.com/

and also an xcllnt e-book eat stop eat http://www.eatstopeat.com/

tons and tons of benefits to eating only 1-2x/day within a 6 hour window.

i'm not too eperienced with the paleo diet though.

[Dankasaur]

Keto is sustainable long term. I know a few guys who have been doing it for years. If you're doing it for weight loss, you just are a little more strict on your carb intake, otherwise if you just want to maintain, you can relax and probably do like 30-40g of carbs to keep in ketosis.

Anyone new to Keto I highly recommend reading the following:

http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto
http://cavemanketo.com/keto-meal-plan/

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Dankasaur

Keto is sustainable long term. I know a few guys who have been doing it for years. If you're doing it for weight loss, you just are a little more strict on your carb intake, otherwise if you just want to maintain, you can relax and probably do like 30-40g of carbs to keep in ketosis.

Anyone new to Keto I highly recommend reading the following:

http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto
http://cavemanketo.com/keto-meal-plan/

i agree with this, i'll peek at those links too, always good to brush up.

for me, sustainable means doable. it's extremely difficult (for me) to stay in ketosis over time. which means someone like me is constantly popping in and out of ketosis, not fun. ugh actually!

30-40 g carbs is right on the edge of where most people dip into ketosis, for me, i had to maintain <20g carbs. i believe i recall that the keto ledge is anywhere between 20g and 80g carbs. peeps have to figure out where they are on that.

[Si]

Thanks guys! Got some reading to do

I didn't even notice before, but if I avoid an evening snack, then I do quite easily fast for 16 hours a day. Probably why I was slim, now I'm getting the spare tire

[PR_Glen]

paleo is much more easier than keto, but keto is 3 times as effective. both work for fat loss.

I lost almost 40lbs in just over a month when i first started keto which was like 15% of my body weight, I was only minimally active at the time so it can work on its own, but doing it with exercise intertwined again is more efficient and better for overall health obviously.

I have been doing keto and a few variations for almost a year now with steady success. I have been going heavy in the gym in recent months so I have had to mix in some carb loads a long the way but keto in between has curbed any significant fat gains for sure.

few tips:

-do your own reading, lots of myths kicking around on the subject. this is helpful http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/
-keep well hydrated, low carb diets make you yield much less water so drink lots and often.
-keep magnesium levels up. they can be effected with an unbalanced diet so lots of greens and seeds will help with that along with others.

[Bryan G]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yup, it's a stricter atkins eating plan, or atkins is a less strict keto diet. not sure which came 1st.

but i am not on that any longer, i like my energy from carbs, i'm not sure keto is sustainable longterm though, unless as treatment for children with epilepsy, i believe. and i did it to cut fat.

i am fasting daily though, typically 14-16 hour fast every day.

that's based on th protocols set-up by http://www.leangains.com/

and also an xcllnt e-book eat stop eat http://www.eatstopeat.com/

tons and tons of benefits to eating only 1-2x/day within a 6 hour window.

i'm not too eperienced with the paleo diet though.

So you only eat twice a day? like 12pm and 7pm or so?

[baddog]

I never gave it much thought, but if fasting can be done daily, I guess I fast 12-15 hours a day, every day.

[Si]

Originally Posted by baddog

I never gave it much thought, but if fasting can be done daily, I guess I fast 12-15 hours a day, every day.

I'm doing about 15 hours per day anyway, yesterday I skipped lunch and done about a 20 hour fast without even noticing or planning to do it.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Si

Thanks guys! Got some reading to do

I didn't even notice before, but if I avoid an evening snack, then I do quite easily fast for 16 hours a day. Probably why I was slim, now I'm getting the spare tire

fasting is a large part of my success too, i don't normally do the extremes that dyna is doing but i still have a big fasting window in there.

It's not a matter if you eat late at night or not. I ate around midnight last night.. but i'm not eating again until about 1pm or so today. that still gives me a 13 hour window. It's a preference thing. Some HAVE to eat later in the night, others HAVE to eat breakfast. You can do either if that window is still there, just can't do both ;)

[Dankasaur]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i agree with this, i'll peek at those links too, always good to brush up.

for me, sustainable means doable. it's extremely difficult (for me) to stay in ketosis over time. which means someone like me is constantly popping in and out of ketosis, not fun. ugh actually!

30-40 g carbs is right on the edge of where most people dip into ketosis, for me, i had to maintain <20g carbs. i believe i recall that the keto ledge is anywhere between 20g and 80g carbs. peeps have to figure out where they are on that.

The boys in r/keto told me that 20g is strict and most can maintain ketosis with 50g or less.. Just have to see what's best for you I guess.

I lost 45 pounds when I was on Keto and recently got back on because I had to stop as I was losing weight so fast my tuxedo at my friends wedding wouldn't have fit me if I hadn't taken a break from it. Now I'm back on and yesterday was my first day... I hadn't completely quit, I just wasn't in ketosis anymore when I "stopped" so I did gain some weight back but managed to drop some of it back off.

I had started it a month before having to quit (for the 2nd time and first time doing it properly) and I was at 320 pounds, dropped to 285 then took my hiatus and went back to 310 but this morning after a nice dump I weighed 292, so going back on is good for me. Need to get down about 80ish more pounds and I'll be happy.

[96ukssob]

I did this diet a few years back and lost a ton of weight really quick.

Some good and bad things about the diet, but if you enjoy meat, bacon, fish, nuts and oil, this will work for you... mostly all carbs are out the window except for ones that come from veggies like spinach, etc.

I had some headaches and always bad breath with this diet, but at the same time, I did drop weight fast but my sweat smelled.

If you don't plan to workout a LOT then don't bother or you'll waste a shit load of money

[Si]

Originally Posted by Dankasaur

but this morning after a nice dump I weighed 292, so going back on is good for me.

LMAO!

Enjoying this thread, I also read of some people doing a caloric version of fasting aswell. Is it the 5/2 diet? Something like that, anyway you eat normal for 5 days, then 2 days of only 500 calories (or something along them lines).

I'm going to give it a shot anyway, just doing the research first, will have to start on a Sunday according to Paleo stuff I've read, which is actually my usual "pig out" day of the week, a big lunch and an un-healthy hot dog, burger etc in the evening.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Bryan G

So you only eat twice a day? like 12pm and 7pm or so?

yes, i try to get my last meal in by 8 and the 1st one in no earlier than 12-1.

Originally Posted by baddog

I never gave it much thought, but if fasting can be done daily, I guess I fast 12-15 hours a day, every day.

that's what i realized too, for me, it's basically skipping breakfast, something i always read was a no-no but i'm enjoying some serious health benefits from it. blood sugars in particular, staying lean is an added bonus.

[Si]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

that's what i realized too, for me, it's basically skipping breakfast, something i always read was a no-no but i'm enjoying some serious health benefits from it. blood sugars in particular, staying lean is an added bonus.

I've never eaten breakfast, unless I've been on holiday and it's included or whatever. So That's pretty easy for me

I'm on about 15 hours now. When you say it, you think "I couldn't not eat for 15 hours!" but then sleep counts and makes it a lot less in reality.

[Choopa Phil]

Id love to try intermitten fasting but its damn near impossible to eat my caloric intake in the feeding window i'd have. Roughly how many cals are you taking in daily?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Si

I've never eaten breakfast, unless I've been on holiday and it's included or whatever. So That's pretty easy for me

I'm on about 15 hours now. When you say it, you think "I couldn't not eat for 15 hours!" but then sleep counts and makes it a lot less in reality.

i'm with you, if i can sleep through something like that, all the better!

i did struggle with it initially though, i've had the 6 meals a day plan hammered into my brain for decades.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

Id love to try intermitten fasting but its damn near impossible to eat my caloric intake in the feeding window i'd have. Roughly how many cals are you taking in daily?

it's actually a blast to stuff your face with gobs of calories in 1 meal and know you are still within your daily amount. very satisfying.

i'm hovering aroung 1800 cals/day. somedays i will eat that all in 1 meal and then go pass out!

i think you're around 5-6k cals/day? dude, you could gorge!!

[Choopa Phil]

Right now 3200-3500 trying to stay on the leaner side, once fall hits I will be up around 4500 again...i think 5k is a little over kill looking back, I gained way too much fat.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

Right now 3200-3500 trying to stay on the leaner side, once fall hits I will be up around 4500 again...i think 5k is a little over kill looking back, I gained way too much fat.

gotcha, also, leangains goes into detail on training in a fasted state, i thought you might find that interesting.

http://www.leangains.com/2010/05/ear...-training.html

oops, sorry here is the link i meant to include


Fasted Training Boosts Muscle Growth?

http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fas...le-growth.html

[Choopa Phil]

so what would be a good protocol to follow if training in the PM? I am very interested to try this, just unsure how to fit 3500 cals of clean foods in my belly in 8 hours time...I guess its shouldnt be that hard right?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

so what would be a good protocol to follow if training in the PM? I am very interested to try this, just unsure how to fit 3500 cals of clean foods in my belly in 8 hours time...I guess its shouldnt be that hard right?

based on lg, i'd eat the most of those cals post-workout, maybe break fast with 1/3 of those cals, train later in the day with some bcaa's prior, then load up the rest.

that would be super easy, you'd have some hunger pangs initially but that's just your brain and meal memory fucking with you.

[Choopa Phil]

I dont think i can do 3500 cals between 8pm and 12am though, thats my concern.

[Harmon]

Fasting isn't good. You people are idiots. It's simple.

Small snacks/meals (ALL DAY EVERY FEW HOURS) (not fucking cupcakes and beers, fatty) and move around. Don't sit there with your dick in your hand sipping juiced avocados. MOVE. Take a walk, go to the store - go to a gym.

Your body is like a furnace. You need to feed it just enough to not burn the fucking joint down. Atkin's diet is for dipshits that know NOTHING about how the human body works.

Oh yeah, Atkins died of a heart attack

[Dankasaur]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Oh yeah, Atkins died of a heart attack

Harmon I like you, so take this with a grain of salt but.. Most people who say this, know nothing about the diet, or dieting in general... I've talked to a nutritionist and my doctor and both have advised this diet is great and urged me to partake in it.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Fasting isn't good. You people are idiots. It's simple.

Small snacks/meals (ALL DAY EVERY FEW HOURS) (not fucking cupcakes and beers, fatty) and move around. Don't sit there with your dick in your hand sipping juiced avocados. MOVE. Take a walk, go to the store - go to a gym.

Your body is like a furnace. You need to feed it just enough to not burn the fucking joint down. Atkin's diet is for dipshits that know NOTHING about how the human body works.

Oh yeah, Atkins died of a heart attack

harmon, take this anyway you want.

On April 8, 2003, at age 72, a day after a major snowstorm in New York, Dr Robert Atkins slipped on an icy pavement, suffering severe head trauma. He spent nine days in intensive care before dying on April 17, 2003, from complications from his head injury.




there's no reason to split meals up, that's a myth created by supplement companies to sell you more food.


either way, i can look at my own blood panels and see how much healthier i am due to fasting.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Choopa Phil

I dont think i can do 3500 cals between 8pm and 12am though, thats my concern.

easy as shit if you do carb backloads after workouts. I was doing 4500 to 5000 cals a day with those and stayed pretty lean. Getting carbs from non gluten bases worked best though, gluten tends to make me more bloated and takes a few days to go down.

for the record i don't recommend backloads to anyone who don't go hard and heavy with weights in the gym.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Fasting isn't good. You people are idiots. It's simple.

Small snacks/meals (ALL DAY EVERY FEW HOURS) (not fucking cupcakes and beers, fatty) and move around. Don't sit there with your dick in your hand sipping juiced avocados. MOVE. Take a walk, go to the store - go to a gym.

Your body is like a furnace. You need to feed it just enough to not burn the fucking joint down. Atkin's diet is for dipshits that know NOTHING about how the human body works.

Oh yeah, Atkins died of a heart attack

nah this is pure bs man. My health markers are better than ever with this diet and fasting.

feeding it often and 'raising the metabolism' is the myth. NOBODY can burn fat with their insulin running high all day, that is a physical impossibility. And quite frankly, 'go to a gym' is a young mans bitch, its not as simple as that. Plenty of fat people doing it wrong perpetually for years in every gym out there.

[Harmon]

Maybe if he wasn't so fat he wouldn't have slipped on ice. Fact of the matter is? He had heart attacks. Blame it on what you want, but personally I wouldn't take the advice of some fat FUCK telling me what to do while he has heart attacks.

Morons.

[Si]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Maybe if he wasn't so fat he wouldn't have slipped on ice. Fact of the matter is? He had heart attacks.

I'd blame that on, more than likely eating steak and eggs too much.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

that's what i realized too, for me, it's basically skipping breakfast, something i always read was a no-no but i'm enjoying some serious health benefits from it. blood sugars in particular, staying lean is an added bonus.

What is funny is that up until 3 years ago, I rarely ate breakfast; YOU changed that and now I rarely miss breakfast.



Now my routine is that I usually do have 3 meals a day.

The breakfast above between 8:30 and 9:30

Around 2:00




Around 6:00 PM

[dyna mo]

wow, that looks good i can smell that grill!

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by baddog

What is funny is that up until 3 years ago, I rarely ate breakfast; YOU changed that and now I rarely miss breakfast.

it's funny sometimes how things go, i learned a ton about breakfast due to trying to develop tc. I do think breaking fast is important, and loading up on nutrients at that meal is wise, i just bumped that meal further out into the day. as you prolly know, breakfast is more about eating the 1st meal after a prolonged time without eating rather than just being the meal eaten in the a.m.

[Si]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

it's funny sometimes how things go, i learned a ton about breakfast due to trying to develop tc.

Is that your product? Looks tasty!

I've been thinking about getting out of adult for a while and doing some lifestyle type work, this change of diet and learning nutrition (which I've been trying to do for 5 years now) could be just the change I need.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Si

Is that your product? Looks tasty!

I've been thinking about getting out of adult for a while and doing some lifestyle type work, this change of diet and learning nutrition (which I've been trying to do for 5 years now) could be just the change I need.

yeah, i formulated that. it didn't take off but i did learn a lot.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yeah, i formulated that. it didn't take off but i did learn a lot.

Not sure why it didn't; I love the stuff. I hate it when I run out and have to wait to mix up some more.

[Si]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yeah, i formulated that. it didn't take off but i did learn a lot.

Oh right cool! Shame it didn't take off.

[Spike D]

Those interested in Intermittent Fasting, there is a lot of info in this thread on Bodybuilding.com

Intermittent Fasting

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by baddog

Not sure why it didn't; I love the stuff. I hate it when I run out and have to wait to mix up some more.

Originally Posted by Si

Oh right cool! Shame it didn't take off.

i gave it a solid shot but the big prob was trying to bootstrap a new cereal in a crowded space. these sorts of product need a lot of eyeballs on em to even think about traction. i gave away 1 ton, literally, not near enough.
came very close to snagging a shelf spot at whole foods but they changed their policy on local products in the middle of that so i wasn't able to close the deal, would have been a game changer but that's the risk of starting your own biz, as we all know. also had some private matters that i needed to focus on.

[Si]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i gave it a solid shot but the big prob was trying to bootstrap a new cereal in a crowded space. these sorts of product need a lot of eyeballs on em to even think about traction. i gave away 1 ton, literally, not near enough.
came very close to snagging a shelf spot at whole foods but they changed their policy on local products in the middle of that so i wasn't able to close the deal, would have been a game changer but that's the risk of starting your own biz, as we all know. also had some private matters that i needed to focus on.

Think you might be able to push it some more? Perhaps put a site up for it, maybe Amazon, Ebay, etc?

Or, perhaps try and market it again to more local food stores, Rather than the big boys? Local makets perhaps?

Failing that, go on Shark Tank I've seen a few health foods go through Dragon's Den shows and end up in stores.

[Bman]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i gave it a solid shot but the big prob was trying to bootstrap a new cereal in a crowded space. these sorts of product need a lot of eyeballs on em to even think about traction. i gave away 1 ton, literally, not near enough.
came very close to snagging a shelf spot at whole foods but they changed their policy on local products in the middle of that so i wasn't able to close the deal, would have been a game changer but that's the risk of starting your own biz, as we all know. also had some private matters that i needed to focus on.

Bro...you still do that?
website?

[CPA37710T]

I've personally tried many diets, and i can tell you something:

carbs
fats
proteins

are all needed, do not supress just eat in moderation and plan your meals... carbs and fats pre workout or inmediate post workout, greens and proteins after that.

It has worked for me, there's so many other ways, but the regular eating works well if you dont eat in excess

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Si

Think you might be able to push it some more? Perhaps put a site up for it, maybe Amazon, Ebay, etc?

Or, perhaps try and market it again to more local food stores, Rather than the big boys? Local makets perhaps?

Failing that, go on Shark Tank I've seen a few health foods go through Dragon's Den shows and end up in stores.

Originally Posted by Bman

Bro...you still do that?
website?

naw, one of the stumbling blocks was my porner resume, hard to sell food after slinging porn. they all want to know my nutritional experience and background, etc, i brought in a certified nutritionist to try and be a face to the product but entities still want to know who the owner is, etc. also had some traction with the military and a school district, but again, the resume, i've been in porn for ~14 years now.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by Si

DynaMo - Was it the Keto diet you was/are doing?

I was just reading about the Paleo diet, which is apparently similar, but a bit more strict? I don't know, they both sound interesting though.

Just wondering if you're still on it, how's it going etc?

I done my first near 18 hour fast yesterday, totally by accident haha.

There are some important things to understand about ketogenic diets.

1) Lessened muscle catabolism for energy. This is why it was popularized outside of medicine in bodybuilding in the 50s. With a normal calorie restricted diet, a significant % of muscle loss will be lean muscle mass. In fact the loss of lean muscle mass, could account for up to 40 or 50% of the weight loss. Ketogenic diets began outside of medicine as a "Fish and Water" diet. Of course no one knew why it worked or understood the physiology behind it.. they just understood that it did work.

This is also a common claim of HCG diets. Thats because an HCG diet is nothing more than a ketogenic diet and the HCG has been proven time and time again to play zero role in weight loss and fat metabolism.

2) Stable moods and energy levels. Once you've gotten past your brain / body adapting to a new full time energy source, you will no longer combat fluctuating blood sugar levels, fluctuating energy levels etc. You will generally feel good, have energy most of the time - assuming you are well rested, dealing with stress well and so on.

3) Resetting insulin production and regulation. This is critical for overweight people who tend to quickly drift towards insulin resistance.

4) No cravings. No hunger. Hunger is an extremely complex thing in humans that involves quite a few different mechanisms in different areas of the body working together. However, a primary driver is insulin levels and related feedback loops. No insulin, no blood sugar fluctuations and a constant source of energy (dietart protein/fats, stored fats) - means no hunger and no cravings. What one might experience are more psychological and habitual rather than physiological.

This is critical to anyone who fights hunger and cravings while dieting (also regulated to a great extent by what you eat regardless). Without the concern of muscle loss and the lack of energy not being an issue and having no real hunger and cravings and using stored fat as a primary source of energy, you can basically starve yourself with no real ill effect other than the concerns over vitamins and minerals. So I often reduce my caloric intake to 500 a day and it does not affect my ability to do cardio, play sports etc as my body is not relying to diet for energy.


I can't really comment on the paleo diet. been ages since i've read anything about it. All diets are just different ways of restricting calories. In a nutshell, increasing protein, decreasing carb intake (notably simple carbs, and not those from fibrous veggies etc) and eating fat is going to minimize hunger/cravings which are primarily driven by fluctuating blood sugar/insulin. The net result is that its easier to maintain with diminished hunger/cravings and feeling more sated more often. So if it works for you and you don't have concerns about energy levels/recovery etc, then its really irrelevant what diet you stick to as long as its working for you.

All diets are different ways of restricting calories as far as weight loss is concerned. You just need to find what works for you. If you are mixing strenuous physical activity in the mix... then that requires a great deal of consideration and planning.

For the record, i don't believe Atkins created anything at all other than the products he marketed. The so called "Atkins Diet" is a term coined by the media as far as I recall. He was a good marketer and PR person for his books and products.. but didn't discover or create anything that directly relates to Ketogenic diets. He basically discovered ketogenic diets and loved meat and found it to be a great way for him to lose weight maintain. It had no relation to him being a doctor, medical research etc. In fact, he was pretty open about the fact that when this all became mainstream, there was still no real understanding of why exactly weight loss was occurring... only speculation. Much of that speculation was also proven to be wrong - such as the idea that the body simply wasn't metabolizing dietary fats or some % of whats consumed while in ketosis etc. Countless studies later, its understood that first and foremost, people who eat more diets higher in proteins tend to eat less overall calories. I believe that all he really did that could be considered something unique that he "created" was creating a maintenance phase - where more carbs are introduced into the diet for the long term. My point is more that he really contributed nothing to the understanding of ketogenic diets.

The best authority that I am aware of on Ketogenic diets is Lyle McDonnald and he's written several books and done amazingly exhaustive research on the topic for well over a decade now.

[Si]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

naw, one of the stumbling blocks was my porner resume, hard to sell food after slinging porn. they all want to know my nutritional experience and background, etc, i brought in a certified nutritionist to try and be a face to the product but entities still want to know who the owner is, etc. also had some traction with the military and a school district, but again, the resume, i've been in porn for ~14 years now.

Change your resume?

That's a shame man, it looks like you put a lot of work into it. Baddog seems to enjoy it, so it must be nice, I've seen enough pics of the things he likes to eat and drink on here to know he's got good taste buds

[Bman]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

naw, one of the stumbling blocks was my porner resume, hard to sell food after slinging porn. they all want to know my nutritional experience and background, etc, i brought in a certified nutritionist to try and be a face to the product but entities still want to know who the owner is, etc. also had some traction with the military and a school district, but again, the resume, i've been in porn for ~14 years now.

really?
What would people say to you?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

.

The best authority that I am aware of on Ketogenic diets is Lyle McDonnald and he's written several books and done amazingly exhaustive research on the topic for well over a decade now.

i have a copy of this and agree, it's comprehensive, actually somewhat easy to read, technical though. wow, $60! i should sell mine for $58

Originally Posted by Si

Change your resume?

That's a shame man, it looks like you put a lot of work into it. Baddog seems to enjoy it, so it must be nice, I've seen enough pics of the things he likes to eat and drink on here to know he's got good taste buds

bd knows how to mix it up to make it tasty! it did get commented on as being not unlike birdseed.

you know, i prolly would have just let things ride as they were and see what happens, had the med/personal issues that really made me have to stop everything i was doing.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Bman

really?
What would people say to you?

it ultimately boiled down to not having a background in nutrition at all. the cereal was designed to be the most nutritional dense cereal you could eat. 4 tablespoons = your daily micronutrients/vita/minerals/aminos/anti-oxidants, everthing and all 100% natural. mix it with yogurt and it's a complete meal.

peeps were befuddled a non-nutritionist could do that or would even attempt to do that actually. hell, i did it for me, i got tired of the vitamins game.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Si

That's a shame man, it looks like you put a lot of work into it. Baddog seems to enjoy it, so it must be nice, I've seen enough pics of the things he likes to eat and drink on here to know he's got good taste buds

Well, to be honest, the bird seed itself is not all that tasty until you mix it in with some Greek yogurt then allow the seeds to soften a little. The reason I have been eating it for three years is what it does for me; both how I feel and the nutritional benefits it has.

It keeps me quite "regular."

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Oh yeah, Atkins died of a heart attack

Atkins died from head injuries sustained from hitting his head on the sidewalk after slipping on the ice outside of his residence.