question for shooters using video cameras

[Grapesoda]

I figure a bunch of DSLR video shooters will pop in this thread and tell me how fucking awesome it is to dick around with a DLSR for video... no, I use a 'video camera' as weird as that might sound... seriously how strange it that? using a video camera to shoot video..???

I'm using the sony ax2000... was shooting at a 60th now at 125th on the shutter... thoughts? input???

[fitzmulti]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

I figure a bunch of DSLR video shooters will pop in this thread and tell me how fucking awesome it is to dick around with a DLSR for video... no, I use a 'video camera' as weird as that might sound... seriously how strange it that? using a video camera to shoot video..???

I'm using the sony ax2000... was shooting at a 60th now at 125th on the shutter... thoughts? input???

People tell me the same, and mayyyyyyyyybe I am just going to have to let it grow on me, but I much prefer using my "true" video camera.

The Canon 7D I have rocks photos...and the 2 - 3 videos I have done look good, but certainly I have yet to really test it, or more accurately, test myself with it. But, just like when I transitioned away from film to digital...this may take a little bit of "want to do".
;-)

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by fitzmulti

People tell me the same, and mayyyyyyyyybe I am just going to have to let it grow on me, but I much prefer using my "true" video camera.

The Canon 7D I have rocks photos...and the 2 - 3 videos I have done look good, but certainly I have yet to really test it, or more accurately, test myself with it. But, just like when I transitioned away from film to digital...this may take a little bit of "want to do".
;-)

no interest at all in DSLR video, in fact the membership I shoot for wants focus across the frame... knowing what the members want goes a long way in figuring out what and how to shoot.... so shutter speed on your vid cam?

I went from film to digital in June or July 2001

[pgmorin]

I like my nikon d7100 for pictures but I use a video camera for video since it more easy to zoom and move with.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by pgmorin

I like my nikon d7100 for pictures but I use a video camera for video since it more easy to zoom and move with.

and the shutter speed on the vid cam?

[fitzmulti]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

no interest at all in DSLR video, in fact the membership I shoot for wants focus across the frame... knowing what the members want goes a long way in figuring out what and how to shoot.... so shutter speed on your vid cam?

I went from film to digital in June or July 2001

That's about the time I gradually began to go digital...
SS on video can vary greatly should I want, but the general setting I use is 1/100.

[dyna mo]

i'd like to participate in this thread in but i am not near as experienced as the folks in here, so bear with me.



i too use a video cam for shooting video, i really don't get the emphasis on what's out of focus in porn these days. everything should be in focus.

but i have been planning on putting my dslr on a tripod with the wide angle lens @ f11+ to get the entire scene to try and grab an extra angle, i will be trying that on my shoot this week.

anyhoo, i shoot at 60fps and 1/60th shutter. the 180 degree shutter rule. not sure if it's required with modern day video cameras but i figured it was a good starting point for me.

[Grapesoda]

Isn't 125th 180 deg of 60p?

[dyna mo]

i thought matching frame rate to shutter speed achieved 180 degrees, maybe i misunderstood what i read about it. again, i'm inexperienced with video.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i thought matching frame rate to shutter speed achieved 180 degrees, maybe i misunderstood what i read about it. again, i'm inexperienced with video.

think it's double or at least I thought I understood dean c to say that when I asked him about it

[dyna mo]

well, i am definitely wrong about it then. :-) lol

[dyna mo]

yeah, i think i jumbled up the rule, i found this

As a rule of thumb, you want the denominator of your shutter speed to be approximately double the number of frames per second that you are recording. In other words, if you are recording at 30 frames per second, you want your shutter speed to be 1/60th of a second.

i even checked my vid cam just now and i have it set at 60 & 60, i'm going to change the shutter speed to 125.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

yeah, i think i jumbled up the rule, i found this



i even checked my vid cam just now and i have it set at 60 & 60, i'm going to change the shutter speed to 125.

if you do you will lose 1 stop of ambient light, along rising the contrast with deeper shadows...

'Conventional Wisdom would tell you that you should normally always aim for a shutter speed of approximately twice the frame rate for natural looking motion.

This “rule” is often referred to as the “180 degree shutter rule” and has it’s roots in film cameras where the physical shape of the shutter is a half circle. The action of exposing the frame and then feeding the film through the gate would equate to a full revolution of the shutter; so half a revolution is spent exposing the film (open shutter) and the other half feeding the film, hence the term “180 degree” shutter.'

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

if you do you will lose 1 stop of ambient light, along rising the contrast with deeper shadows...

i like that!

did you change your frame rate when you upped your shutter speed to 125? what prompted the change?

[NaughtyRob]

I have no desire to shoot video with my DSLR but if a client ordered it I would.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i like that!

did you change your frame rate when you upped your shutter speed to 125? what prompted the change?

fumbling on the fucking buttons when shooting I shoot at 60i

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

fumbling on the fucking buttons when shooting I shoot at 60i

i think that's how the wheel was discovered.

interlaced eh....why no p?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i think that's how the wheel was discovered.

interlaced eh....why no p?

been shooting the same since day 1... it works... I learn a trick to make money and leave it alone until I'm forced to learn something else... this isn't an interesting hobby for me... it's a demanding job with tight budgets...

[Bman]

rule of thumb is 2 x shutter rate for frame rate
30 fps = shutter of 60
24 fps= 48
60 fps= 120

so yeah it would be the closest so 125

these are just minimums.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

been shooting the same since day 1... it works... I learn a trick to make money and leave it alone until I'm forced to learn something else... this isn't an interesting hobby for me... it's a demanding job with tight budgets...

right on, just curious, not critical.

[Bman]

all of the comes from film cameras...before you needed the shutter to be quick enough to get a sharp image. you were dealing with film stocks that needed tremendous amounts of light and so this was way more of an issue of getting everything right.
today just look in your camera. if doesnt look good then change it.

you use 60i to capture fast motion objects or if you wanted to slow down the motion in post after(as it has 2 x more frames so you get better transitions between the frames)
30p is good for regular stuff and you essentially need less light because your shutter is set to 60. plus the picture is progressive and not interlaced.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Bman

all of the comes from film cameras...before you needed the shutter to be quick enough to get a sharp image. you were dealing with film stocks that needed tremendous amounts of light and so this was way more of an issue of getting everything right.
today just look in your camera. if doesnt look good then change it.

you would use 60i to capture fast motion objects or if you wanted to slow down the motion in post after(as it has 2 x more frames so you get better transitions between the frames)
30p is good for regular stuff and you essentially need less light because your shutter is set to 60. plus the picture is progressive and not interlaced.

i'm going to try 30/60 too, thx. although, it seems like shooting at 60 gives more options in post re: slow mo....

glad i jumped in here! thanks folks.

[eipstudios]

Anybody shooting with Canon XF105 or Sony PMW-100 XDCAM? Thinking of buying one of these.

[Bman]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i'm going to try 30/60 too, thx. although, it seems like shooting at 60 gives more options in post re: slow mo....

glad i jumped in here! thanks folks.

just for what it is worth, I did a test with another video shooter about a month ago.
We used 2 dslr (nikon and canon) and a Canon 1920 x 1080 video camera.
Used 24 frames, 60, and 30....used all the cameras to shoot a couple scenes.

after getting the footage rendered out on the time line and color corrected...we were hard pressed to tell the difference between the footage other then the depth of field control from the dslr.


I have been so busy I have not been able to get the finished scenes to see what the finished product looks like but I assume it will be pretty close to tell you the truth

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Bman

just for what it is worth, I did a test with another video shooter about a month ago.
We used 2 dslr (nikon and canon) and a Canon 1920 x 1080 video camera.
Used 24 frames, 60, and 30....used all the cameras to shoot a couple scenes.

after getting the footage rendered out on the time line and color corrected...we were hard pressed to tell the difference between the footage other then the depth of field control from the dslr.


I have been so busy I have not been able to get the finished scenes to see what the finished product looks like but I assume it will be pretty close to tell you the truth

i am so glad you mention this, i mentioned earlier that i am going to try putting my dslr on tripod and just capturing a wide angle view while i shoot the handheld, but i was concerned about the footage matching up. i'm hoping to deal with the focus issue and dof by using my wide angle @ f11 or soon the dslr, goal being everything should be in focus regardless. but it is full frame, and this is a great example of where an aps-c sensor dslr would work easier i bet.

/plan

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Bman

just for what it is worth, I did a test with another video shooter about a month ago.
We used 2 dslr (nikon and canon) and a Canon 1920 x 1080 video camera.
Used 24 frames, 60, and 30....used all the cameras to shoot a couple scenes.

after getting the footage rendered out on the time line and color corrected...we were hard pressed to tell the difference between the footage other then the depth of field control from the dslr.


I have been so busy I have not been able to get the finished scenes to see what the finished product looks like but I assume it will be pretty close to tell you the truth

the difference will be stutter in the movement with the lower frame rates...

[Bman]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the difference will be stutter in the movement with the lower frame rates...

yes ...will be good to see the test edited together using the different angles.
and what the eye actually picks up and doesnt and what looks the best.
Of course thats all gonna depend on the individual though

[Bman]

btw..how is that came anyways? why you for that one over the xd?

[Jim_Gunn]

The Sony EX-1 is my main HD video camera, which I love for the resolution the 1/2" chips provide, as opposed to the 1/3rd inch chips most prosumer cameras have. I personally stick to 30 fps and 1/60th shutter speed as a general rule. People are used to viewing video on tv or online shot with a relatively limited number of common frame rates and shutter speeds depending on whether it's NTSC or PAL or some special kind of shots that get slo-moed in post.

If you mess with them too much they tend to look weird in my opinion, like one of those old time herky jerky movies from 1910. It's even worse if just slightly off as it tends to give the effect of something wrong that they can't quite put their finger on.

I also loathe interlaced video at this stage of the game. It's old technology that's been largely supplanted by progressive video cameras that shoot progressive footage that's mostly shown on progressive tvs and computer monitors in most households nowadays. It also has the drawback of forcing the editor to go through the extra step of de-interlacing the footage upon capture, on the timeline or on output to avoid jaggies on fast motion or striped patterns.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Bman

yes ...will be good to see the test edited together using the different angles.
and what the eye actually picks up and doesnt and what looks the best.
Of course thats all gonna depend on the individual though

depends on camera pan I think, and how fast they pan is...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

It also has the drawback of forcing the editor to go through the extra step of de-interlacing the footage upon capture, on the timeline or on output to avoid jaggies on fast motion or striped patterns.

only on a mac... ..

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Bman

btw..how is that came anyways? why you for that one over the xd?

the ax2000 is great, easy to use camera... have the sonly wide adaptor as well .. great combo..

[Oracle Porn]

you think your $3.5k camera is worth shooting content with?
DSLR give much better results, as much as you hate adapting. There's a reason why the best latest sites use DSLR, your attitude just leaves you behind.
It's porn, it's low budget (compared to mainstream), so you can't shoot with a "decent" video camera.... your $3.5k is better spent with a DSLR.

[fitzmulti]

Originally Posted by NaughtyRob

I have no desire to shoot video with my DSLR but if a client ordered it I would.

Exactly, that was the only time(s) I have done it...

[shimmy2]

dslr for 3yrs now problem free no broken dv tape mechanisms etc. manual focus during pov takes practice though

[candyflip]

Mine is set at 48, but I'm shooting at 24.97fps

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Oracle Porn

you think your $3.5k camera is worth shooting content with?
DSLR give much better results, as much as you hate adapting. There's a reason why the best latest sites use DSLR, your attitude just leaves you behind.
It's porn, it's low budget (compared to mainstream), so you can't shoot with a "decent" video camera.... your $3.5k is better spent with a DSLR.

wow...! you're right!! why would I spend 20 minutes shooting a video with a video camera when I could spend 3 hours shooting a video with a DLSR???? boy, am I a total dumb ass

[Oracle Porn]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

wow...! you're right!! why would I spend 20 minutes shooting a video with a video camera when I could spend 3 hours shooting a video with a DLSR???? boy, am I a total dumb ass

just setup a webcam and fuck your models like this...someone will bust a nut anyway.

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by Oracle Porn

you think your $3.5k camera is worth shooting content with?
DSLR give much better results, as much as you hate adapting. There's a reason why the best latest sites use DSLR, your attitude just leaves you behind.
It's porn, it's low budget (compared to mainstream), so you can't shoot with a "decent" video camera.... your $3.5k is better spent with a DSLR.

It's painfully obvious that you're clueless.

[dyna mo]

i can think of 8-10 massive sites off the top of my head that haven't fallen for the dslr hype and continue shooting video with a video camera and stills with a dslr, just as the devices were intended to be used.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i can think of 8-10 massive sites off the top of my head that haven't fallen for the dslr hype and continue shooting video with a video camera and stills with a dslr, just as the devices were intended to be used.

many people don't care for the shallow DOF, many owners don't care for the 'premium cost' of shooting with DSLR

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Oracle Porn

just setup a webcam and fuck your models like this...someone will bust a nut anyway.

this might seem strange to you with your life experiences.... I actually know what the fuck I'm doing

BTW that's Regan...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

many people don't care for the shallow DOF, many owners don't care for the 'premium cost' of shooting with DSLR

as a porn surfer, i can't stand it. they don't know what they're doing. + i've noticed many shooters keep their dslr autofocus on auto, so the cam will focus on the closest object to the screen, i.e, a girls foot is in focus but her pussy/ass/face are not. nor do many seem to take into account what the actual dof is for a particular fstop/focal distance.

i will never understand putting an emphasis on what's NOT in focus.

[fitzmulti]

In a TOTALLY unrelated issue...
I just did a twitter authorization thing where they have a CAPTCHA-like thing.
And the two words were:
Grape Soda
No lie!

[Bman]

Originally Posted by Oracle Porn

you think your $3.5k camera is worth shooting content with?
DSLR give much better results, as much as you hate adapting. There's a reason why the best latest sites use DSLR, your attitude just leaves you behind.
It's porn, it's low budget (compared to mainstream), so you can't shoot with a "decent" video camera.... your $3.5k is better spent with a DSLR.

a little misguided they shoot the same only you have a little more control over depth of field with the lenses on a dslr.

however for the most part you have a lot of limitations such as manual focus, camera control and button control manipulation.

Normally most guys use the dslr on a tripod and so you have to spend a lot more time shooting the scene. prob 3x more.

you could conceivably get close to the exact same thing with a Video Camera with manual control of the lens if it were on a tripod too.


All things being equal it has more to do with the operator then anything.

[Jay-Rock]

Leave it at 60 and forget about it. Stay in 30p its best for internet content.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock

Leave it at 60 and forget about it. Stay in 30p its best for internet content.

might try that... shoot 60i now and 60th

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Bman

a little misguided they shoot the same only you have a little more control over depth of field with the lenses on a dslr.

however for the most part you have a lot of limitations such as manual focus, camera control and button control manipulation.

Normally most guys use the dslr on a tripod and so you have to spend a lot more time shooting the scene. prob 3x more.

you could conceivably get close to the exact same thing with a Video Camera with manual control of the lens if it were on a tripod too.


All things being equal it has more to do with the operator then anything.

pretty much I guess... I shoot handheld on the fly... not even gonna mess with DSLR unless they pay me to ..

[NaughtyRob]

LOL is he still around? He may have fucked more girls than Ron Jeremy!

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

BTW that's Regan...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

wow...! you're right!! why would I spend 20 minutes shooting a video with a video camera when I could spend 3 hours shooting a video with a DLSR???? boy, am I a total dumb ass

Hey Grapesoda....I switched over to my Canon EOS 5D MK 3 about a year ago.

I have my Panasonic HPX 170 HD vid camera gathering mothballs now.

There is no comparison in quality. And the only thing you need to do to have clear focus across the field is use a high F stop on the DSLR.

I shoot video in Aperture Priority mode. Set the F stop up super high. Then you can use the "Auto Focus" to bring the shutter speed to where it needs to be to compensate.
Then you are in focus. And there is no depth of field.

And between the lens and the DSLR chips...it will absolutely blow the vid cam away.

As an added bonus...you only need to have one camera on you. Switch it to Camera mode to shoot your stills. Then switch to Video mode to shoot the video.

This is shot with Canon 5D Mk3 with the settings the way I just described using nothing but the normal light in my bedroom (keep in mind it's already edited and compressed, the raw footage is even crisper):

The video is 3:51 long. Other than stopping to talk about dialogue...it took no time to shoot at all. I think we walked in the room and it was completed in about 6 minutes total.

No lighting set up, took about 2 seconds to focus. Just super easy.

And the "blacks" are really black. Which makes the contrast and coloring so much better than what any prosumer vid cam can ever achieve.

The only way to get to that quality would be to drop some serious, serious money on a RED...

Anyway, just wanted to chime in. A lot of "shooters" act all mysterious about shooting video with a DSLR.

But if you use one for just a few minutes you figure out how incredibly simple it is. And when I am shooting a real scene with it and using my kino flo lighting and taking my time to really get the shots...it's just fantastic.