Is it 'Ukraine' or 'The Ukraine'?

[Mutt]

When I was young people would say 'The people down the street are from the Ukraine' - is it more common now to 'they are from Ukraine'?

what about Czech Republic - is it The Czech Republic or just Czech Republic? I even hear people saying 'He's from Czech' which sounds funny, it would be like saying 'He's from American'

[PR_Glen]

sounds common to me, kinda like The Congo.

The South Of France bothers me though, I have a feeling nobody calls it that there.. at least nobody i know who lives there.. hehe

[Barry-xlovecam]

A friend of mine from the UK lived in Ukraine for a while -- "The" is not included in the country's name -- he corrected me often.

Someone from Olso is not a citizen of The Norway.

However, Joe from the United States city of Chicago is an American citizen

If you hail from Amsterdam you are living in The Netherlands ...

[jigg]

Ukraina... no The

[MaDalton]

Czech Republic/Česká republika

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Republic

[crockett]

I dated a girl from there and they always referred to it as Ukraine.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Mutt

When I was young people would say 'The people down the street are from the Ukraine' - is it more common now to 'they are from Ukraine'?

what about Czech Republic - is it The Czech Republic or just Czech Republic? I even hear people saying 'He's from Czech' which sounds funny, it would be like saying 'He's from American'

before the civil war it was 'those united stated' after the civil war it became 'the united states'

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

A friend of mine from the UK lived in Ukraine for a while -- "The" is not included in the country's name -- he corrected me often.

Someone from Olso is not a citizen of The Norway.

However, Joe from the United States city of Chicago is an American citizen

If you hail from Amsterdam you are living in The Netherlands ...

If we are going to have a thread about questions

Barry why do you always have that weird spacing in your posts?

[TheDA]

I've always, and probably will always call it The Ukraine, but it is wrong. It should simply be Ukraine.

[Manfap]

Could have come about when it was part of the USSR. so The Ukraine was the area.

[O MARINA]

Originally Posted by Mutt

When I was young people would say 'The people down the street are from the Ukraine' - is it more common now to 'they are from Ukraine'?

Never heard anyone refer to it with "the".
Just pronounce it "Ykraeena".

[scarlettcontent]

either are OK

[AndrewX]

Originally Posted by O MARINA

Never heard anyone refer to it with "the".
Just pronounce it "Ykraeena".

Ooh-kra-eena. The Y is the cirillic U.

[O MARINA]

Originally Posted by AndrewX

Ooh-kra-eena. The Y is the cirillic U.

Yeah, exactly

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Shap

If we are going to have a thread about questions

Barry why do you always have that weird spacing in your posts?

I despise uniformity ;)

[erikwil]

The Ukraine is incorrect, but everyone outside Ukraine says it. Prettiest girls in the world by the way

[oppoten]

Originally Posted by Manfap

Could have come about when it was part of the USSR. so The Ukraine was the area.

I think this is the reason. I've seen Russians put "the" in front of many words when writing English, where an English speaker wouldn't say it.

Might also be an independence thing, Ukrainians saying Ukraine because Russians said "the Ukraine". Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[Si]

Originally Posted by O MARINA

Never heard anyone refer to it with "the".
Just pronounce it "Ykraeena".

Originally Posted by O MARINA

Yeah, exactly

You're a Ukrainian girl? I had a good Ukrainian friend before, he told me all your dirty words . I couldn't type a single one properly, but my pronunciation would make you wet.

The only country I know that has the word "The" in the true name, is L'Espana, AKA The Spain.

[DiamonMike]

Ukraina is already articulated.No need for 'the'

[just a punk]

Course Ukraine as a country name must be used without "the". The etymology of this name is rooting from the old Russian language which means outskirts of the country ("Okraina" -> "Ukraina"). Since it was a western part of Russian Empire.

[Mutt]

The use of the article relates to the time before independence in 1991, when Ukraine was a republic of the Soviet Union known as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, she says. Since then, it should be merely Ukraine.

There is no definite article in the Ukrainian or Russian languages and there is another theory why it crept into the English language.

Those who called it "the Ukraine" in English must have known that the word meant "borderland", says Anatoly Liberman, a professor at the University of Minnesota with a specialism in etymology. So they referred to it as "the borderland".

"After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukrainians probably decided that the article denigrated their country [by identifying it as a part of Russia] and abolished 'the' while speaking English, so now it is simply Ukraine.

"That's why the Ukraine suddenly lost its article in the last 20 years, it's a sort of linguistic independence in Europe, it's hugely symbolic."

The Germans still use it but the English-speaking world has largely stopped using it.

[Mutt]

This I believe is why in the West it was referred to as THE UKRAINE

"When the Soviet Union annexed Ukraine into the USSR, they found that Ukrainians were exceptionally patriotic and indpendent. To quell potential revolution, Russia deported the wealthy and middle class Ukrainians to Siberia, relocated Russians to Ukrain, and began referring to Ukraine as a region of Russia, even though it was still a separate country. The sole purpose of this move was to try to take away Ukraine's individual identity from the rest of the world.

Hence, we (English speakers) always heard the Russians refer to Ukraine as a region, and we simply accepted this in our ignorance of Ukraine and Russia's history."


Makes sense - the Russians wanted it to be referred to as a region of Russia the same way Americans call the middle states, 'THE MIDWEST', and Canadians call the Atlantic provinces 'THE MARITIMES'.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Mutt

"After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukrainians probably decided that the article denigrated their country [by identifying it as a part of Russia] and abolished 'the' while speaking English, so now it is simply Ukraine.

This is what I just told above.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Makes sense - the Russians wanted it to be referred to as a region of Russia the same way Americans call the middle states, 'THE MIDWEST', and Canadians call the Atlantic provinces 'THE MARITIMES'.

Ukraine was a part of Russian Empire for 100's of years, so it wasn't annexed by Soviet Union. It just became a part of Soviet Union as any other regions of Czarist Russia

[thumbuilderic]

Wow. I learned something today. Thanks for posting the reference to Anatoly. I'll have to amend my methods. (I think I might have been referring to it with the article.)

[Manfap]

Originally Posted by Si

The only country I know that has the word "The" in the true name, is L'Espana, AKA The Spain.

Really.. 40 million+ people who live here get it wrong then.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Ukraine was a part of Russian Empire for 100's of years, so it wasn't annexed by Soviet Union. It just became a part of Soviet Union as any other regions of Czarist Russia

That is correct. My maternal grandparents we from the Czarist Russia Ukraine. My grandfather was drafted for life into the Czar's Army, he was a blacksmith -- he deserted the Czar's army conscription for life and came to America with his wife. That was about 1895 and long before the Bolshevik revolution.

[livexxx]

When in doubt about countries I normally get a map out.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Ukraine was a part of Russian Empire for 100's of years, so it wasn't annexed by Soviet Union. It just became a part of Soviet Union as any other regions of Czarist Russia

Not by choice.

"A chaotic period of incessant warfare ensued, with internationally recognized establishment of independent Ukrainian People's Republic. Independent Ukraine emerged from its own civil war. Then Soviet aggression and the Ukrainian?Soviet War followed, which resulted in Soviet victory. Ukrainian People's Republic was occupied and a puppet state called Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was created. On December 30, 1922 it became one of the founding republics of the Soviet Union. The Soviet government was hostile to Ukrainian language and Ukrainian culture; there were mass repressions of Ukrainian poets, historians and linguists. Then there was a genocide of Ukrainians: millions of people starved to death in 1932 and 1933 in the Holodomor. After the 1939 invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany and Soviet Union, the Ukrainian SSR's territory was enlarged westward. During World War II the Ukrainian Insurgent Army tried to reestablish Ukrainian independence and fought against both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. But in 1941 Ukraine was occupied by Nazi Germany, being liberated in 1944. In 1945, the Ukrainian SSR became one of the founding members of the United Nations.[12] In 1954 it expanded to the south with the transfer of the Crimean Peninsula."

Ukranians and Russians are descendants of the Rus people and there's a debate whether the Rus were Vikings from Scandinavia or Slavs.

This description points to them being blonde Norsemen.

Ahmad ibn Fadlan, an Arab traveler during the 10th century, provided one of the earliest written descriptions of the Rus': "They are as tall as a date palm, blond and ruddy, so that they do not need to wear a tunic nor a cloak; rather the men among them wear garments that only cover half of his body and leaves one of his hands free."[

[pornmasta]

«В Украине» или «на Украине» ?

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by pornmasta

«В Украине» или «на Украине» ?

https://translate.google.com/?client...en&sa=N&tab=wT

"Ukraine" or "Ukraine"?

Google for the win note the 'на' is omitted

[Si]

Originally Posted by Manfap

Really.. 40 million+ people who live here get it wrong then.

I forgot my [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Si

I forgot my [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags.

So why was it a sarcasm to sat that Spain's official name is The Spain?

[Supz]

is it 'The United States of America' or USA

[klinton]

Originally Posted by Si

The only country I know that has the word "The" in the true name, is L'Espana, AKA The Spain.

first time I heard about it......

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Supz

is it 'The United States of America' or USA

The United States of America, or the (with or without the the) USA
Capital T is in the county's formal title?

I am from the USA
not I from USA
He is a USA citizen
not he USA citizen
I am visiting the United States
not I am visiting United States

Depends on the use of the words/acronym in a sentence ...

[Sid70]

There is no 'the' in the country name.
I hear 'the Ukraine' mostly from English speakers.
Guess they just think if they live in The UK then it must
be The Uk(raine)...

When asked why don't you say The Russia or the France they cant explain it.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

The United States of America, or the (with or without the the) USA
Capital T is in the county's formal title?

I am from the USA
not I from USA
He is a USA citizen
not he USA citizen
I am visiting the United States
not I am visiting United States

Depends on the use of the words/acronym in a sentence ...

If you leave 'America' only for the country name would you refer to it as The America?
Probably not, same about Ukraine.

I would accept 'in the country of Ukraine' but in Ukraine.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by pornmasta

«В Украине» или «на Украине» ?

В Украине.

На Украине - это по-старому.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Not by choice.

"A chaotic period of incessant warfare ensued, with internationally recognized establishment of independent Ukrainian People's Republic. Independent Ukraine emerged from its own civil war. Then Soviet aggression and the Ukrainian?Soviet War followed, which resulted in Soviet victory. Ukrainian People's Republic was occupied and a puppet state called Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic was created. On December 30, 1922 it became one of the founding republics of the Soviet Union. The Soviet government was hostile to Ukrainian language and Ukrainian culture; there were mass repressions of Ukrainian poets, historians and linguists. Then there was a genocide of Ukrainians: millions of people starved to death in 1932 and 1933 in the Holodomor. After the 1939 invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany and Soviet Union, the Ukrainian SSR's territory was enlarged westward. During World War II the Ukrainian Insurgent Army tried to reestablish Ukrainian independence and fought against both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. But in 1941 Ukraine was occupied by Nazi Germany, being liberated in 1944. In 1945, the Ukrainian SSR became one of the founding members of the United Nations.[12] In 1954 it expanded to the south with the transfer of the Crimean Peninsula."

Yeah. We suffered a lot.
PayPal me $100 to somehow cover the loss.
Thanks.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by cyberseo

this is what i just told above.

Там, где справа обведено ОКРАИНА - самая ебанутая Украина, точнее УРКАина.

[Sid70]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Course Ukraine as a country name must be used without "the". The etymology of this name is rooting from the old Russian language which means outskirts of the country ("Okraina" -> "Ukraina"). Since it was a western part of Russian Empire.

Since it was a western part of THE Russian Empire.

[Si]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

So why was it a sarcasm to sat that Spain's official name is The Spain?

Originally Posted by klinton

first time I heard about it......

Have you ever spoken to Spanish people who use the term? I used to work with a guy from Madrid who would say it all the time, "In The Spain,.....".

[lucas131]

the united states of czech republic ... madalton was right!

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Mutt

There is no definite article in the Ukrainian or Russian languages

Natasha, get moose and squirrel

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Sid70

Yeah. We suffered a lot.
PayPal me $100 to somehow cover the loss.
Thanks.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Sid70

There is no 'the' in the country name.
I hear 'the Ukraine' mostly from English speakers.
Guess they just think if they live in The UK then it must
be The Uk(raine)...

When asked why don't you say The Russia or the France they cant explain it.

It's very simple. The articles are not implemented to names. E.g.: John (not the John), Adidas (not the Adidas), America (not the America) etc. Ukraine is the country name too, while the United States of America and the United Kingdom are not

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by sid70

В Украине.

На Украине - это по-старому.

Неправда. В Русском языке: НА УКРАИНЕ (см. любой толковый словарь русского языка, хоть царских времен, хоть современный). И только так. В других языках может быть как-то иначе.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Sid70

Since it was a western part of THE Russian Empire.

Yes, that's correct.

[GregE]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Not by choice.

"A chaotic period of incessant warfare ensued, with internationally recognized establishment of independent Ukrainian People's Republic. Independent Ukraine emerged from its own civil war. Then Soviet aggression and the Ukrainian?Soviet War followed, which resulted in Soviet victory.

The Ukrainian People's Republic even had a small airforce during it's brief existence.