So I know how much you guys love trayvon martin

[xholly]

Really cant work out why this was such a big deal in America. How could anyone seriously say profiling does not work, basically the whole of marketing relies on it. Seems they were both shit stains to me and Martin probably had only a few more years to go before he would be going to jail anyway.

Musical artists Macklemore & Ryan Lewis took a moment to honor Trayvon Martin at the American Music Awards Sunday night.

While accepting an award for favorite rap/hip-hop album, Macklemore quoted Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., before speaking out about slain Florida teen, Trayvon Martin.

?Due to the fact that we are in Florida tonight accepting this award, I want to acknowledge Trayvon Martin and the hundreds and hundreds of kids each year that are dying due to racial profiling and the violence that follows it,? Macklemore, whose given name is Ben Haggarty, said. ?This is really happening. These are our friends, our neighbors, our peers, and our fans, and it?s time that we look out for the youth and fight against racism and the laws that protect it.?

The musical duo have been known for promoting social justice on divisive issues in the past. The song ?Same Love,? a top hit off their award winning album, The Heist, openly addresses homophobia and supports marriage equality. Macklemore has criticized hip hop culture for misogyny as well.

Shortly after George Zimmerman was acquitted of all charges in the shooting death of the 17-year-old Martin, civil rights leaders renewed their call for a Justice Department investigation into whether or not the shooting warranted civil rights charges against Zimmerman, with many concerned that he might have racially profiled the teenager. According to a recent Washington Post report, the Justice Department is expected to announce its findings in that investigation soon.

http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/...trayvon-martin

[candyflip]

These two seem like they always have to have some current cause to champion.

Racial profiling is in the news these past few weeks.

[xholly]

Originally Posted by candyflip

These two seem like they always have to have some current cause to champion.

Racial profiling is in the news these past few weeks.

ahh never heard of them but they are going straight to my mental mangina basket

[sandman!]

who gives a fuck what some random artist thinks lol

[mineistaken]

Thug peace of shit Martin, who was looking to rob some houses on the day he was shot while beating Zimmy to death, was definitely useless waste of space.
Anyone who loves him is waste of space as well.

[xholly]

Originally Posted by sandman!

who gives a fuck what some random artist thinks lol

some girl posted it on my facebook feed and it was full of dumbass comments that I couldnt reply to. Ive seen thread after thread here about it so figured it would create discussion.

[xholly]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Thug peace of shit Martin, who was looking to rob some houses on the day he was shot while beating Zimmy to death, was definitely useless waste of space.
Anyone who loves him is waste of space as well.

So many die and are murdered every day... I feel a vague sense of altruism for all but is there a reason I should care more about this death than others?

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by xholly

is there a reason I should care more about this death than others?

You should care even less for the death of this criminal thug. Many good people die every day.

[whOaKemosabe]

calling brassdonkey

[kane]

Originally Posted by xholly

Really cant work out why this was such a big deal in America. How could anyone seriously say profiling does not work, basically the whole of marketing relies on it. Seems they were both shit stains to me and Martin probably had only a few more years to go before he would be going to jail anyway.





http://www.msnbc.com/politicsnation/...trayvon-martin

It works, but would you want to be put under suspicion just because you fit a certain profile?

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by kane

It works, but would you want to be put under suspicion just because you fit a certain profile?

Why not? If it works I am good with this "sacrifice" for greater good.

[kane]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Why not? If it works I am good with this "sacrifice" for greater good.

So this is likely a fairly radical version, but it might be fairly accurate of what could happen.

Say you happen to fit the profile of a person who is more likely to shoplift from a store. You have never stolen anything in your life and wouldn't shoplift from a store, but every you store you walk into you get pulled aside, frisked and questioned about your purchases before you leave. How long until this starts to bother you?

[SilentKnight]

There's no such thing as racial profiling.

It's called 'an educated guess'.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

There's no such thing as racial profiling.

It's called 'an educated guess'.

Gotta agree.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by kane

So this is likely a fairly radical version, but it might be fairly accurate of what could happen.

Say you happen to fit the profile of a person who is more likely to shoplift from a store. You have never stolen anything in your life and wouldn't shoplift from a store, but every you store you walk into you get pulled aside, frisked and questioned about your purchases before you leave. How long until this starts to bother you?

Pretty quickly, but I don't think it happens every time. Maybe once in 20 times? Once in 50 times?

[kane]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Pretty quickly, but I don't think it happens every time. Maybe once in 20 times? Once in 50 times?

That is likely because racial profiling is not technically allowed in most instances. If it were the norm and it was completely legal and encouraged it would likely happen much more often.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by kane

That is likely because racial profiling is not technically allowed in most instances. If it were the norm and it was completely legal and encouraged it would likely happen much more often.

I doubt its actually racial profiling, rather than educated guess like guys above pointed out. If you are white and look suspicious/sketchy you would be profiled as well. Race is just part of profiling procedure.

[kane]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

I doubt its actually racial profiling, rather than educated guess like guys above pointed out. If you are white and look suspicious/sketchy you would be profiled as well. Race is just part of profiling procedure.

It is more of an overall profile in most cases, but racial profiling is very real. A friend of mine is black and moved to a small town that is almost completely white and the first two months she was pulled over four times. Every time it was for something lame, she was never cited and it was clear that she was driving while black.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by kane

It is more of an overall profile in most cases, but racial profiling is very real. A friend of mine is black and moved to a small town that is almost completely white and the first two months she was pulled over four times. Every time it was for something lame, she was never cited and it was clear that she was driving while black.

Simple. Cops do random pulls all the time. By statistics random black driver has better chances of breaking some law than random white driver. Its not like cops do not pull over white guys for same bullshit reasons.

Its like when you walk at night, one sidewalk two black people, another sidewalk two white people. If you are smart you would go towards white people. And its nothing wrong, its educated choice. Correct profiling. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.

By the way add to the fact that she was black in white town. I would bet my money if white person drove in all black town he/she would be pulled off more often than average person from that town as well. So add that into account as well...

[Best-In-BC]

Originally Posted by sandman!

who gives a fuck what some random artist thinks lol

I support kicking the shit outta people following you around who are not cops .

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by Best-In-BC

I support kicking the shit outta people following you around who are not cops .

Yeah, look how well it turned out for Trayvon.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Best-In-BC

I support kicking the shit outta people following you around who are not cops .

From your posts about the matter I formed an opinion that you are one of those liberal polit correct pussies (or towards that direction). I doubt this kind of person would actually support smashing someone's head into pavement just because someone noticed you doing something shady and started to follow you in good faith (to prevent crime you were up to).

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

There's no such thing as racial profiling.

It's called 'an educated guess'.

Exactly. Based on valid statistics.

[kane]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Simple. Cops do random pulls all the time. By statistics random black driver has better chances of breaking some law than random white driver. Its not like cops do not pull over white guys for same bullshit reasons.

Its like when you walk at night, one sidewalk two black people, another sidewalk two white people. If you are smart you would go towards white people. And its nothing wrong, its educated choice. Correct profiling. Absolutely nothing wrong with it.

By the way add to the fact that she was black in white town. I would bet my money if white person drove in all black town he/she would be pulled off more often than average person from that town as well. So add that into account as well...

Which kind of makes my point that much of profiling is racially motivated.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by kane

So this is likely a fairly radical version, but it might be fairly accurate of what could happen.

Say you happen to fit the profile of a person who is more likely to shoplift from a store. You have never stolen anything in your life and wouldn't shoplift from a store, but every you store you walk into you get pulled aside, frisked and questioned about your purchases before you leave. How long until this starts to bother you?

Let's say you walk into that same store to buy some apples. But you notice a large number of apples visible in the bin are bruised, rotten and generally poor quality.

Do you dig down to the bottom of the bin in hopes of finding a few good ones?

Be honest.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by kane

Which kind of makes my point that much of profiling is racially motivated.

And which also makes point about educated guess or higher chances that person of certain race would fit the bill.
And I already said that race is part of profiling, and that is nothing wrong with that. Why frisk one person if you can frisk another if you know that another is higher chance of fitting the bill. Simple as that, but again - its not only race, sketchy white person would be more likely to be profiles in the store than decent looking black.

[kane]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

And which also makes point about educated guess or higher chances that person of certain race would fit the bill.
And I already said that race is part of profiling, and that is nothing wrong with that. Why frisk one person if you can frisk another if you know that another is higher chance of fitting the bill. Simple as that, but again - its not only race, sketchy white person would be more likely to be profiles in the store than decent looking black.

I guess to me it is all a slippery slope. Once it starts who knows where it stops. I don't want to live somewhere where the police might be able to stop, question and search me just because I look a certain way. I know it already happens, but if it were allowed and encouraged I think it would be much worse.

[kane]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Let's say you walk into that same store to buy some apples. But you notice a large number of apples visible in the bin are bruised, rotten and generally poor quality.

Do you dig down to the bottom of the bin in hopes of finding a few good ones?

Be honest.

Of course I would, but that is not profiling. That is simply seeing that one is damaged and one is not. If there is one guy pointing a gun at me and another guy just standing there looking at me it is not profiling to assume that the guy pointing the gun at me is more likely to rob me.

Profiling would be if I looked at the apples and assumed that the ones with a slightly longer stem were better simply because they had a longer stem or that the ones on the bottom of the bin were better simply because they were on the bottom of the bin.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by kane

I guess to me it is all a slippery slope. Once it starts who knows where it stops. I don't want to live somewhere where the police might be able to stop, question and search me just because I look a certain way. I know it already happens, but if it were allowed and encouraged I think it would be much worse.

So you are for no stops at all even if somebody is clearly up for no good?
Stops must happen, frisks must happen. And if one person has lets say 0.0001% chance of fitting the bill and another 0.0002% chance than obviously they have to stop the second one. Sorry that all other things being equal (eg both looking same sketchy or same average or same decent) it has to be the black guy. you simply can not choose smaller chances over bigger chances. And there is nothing wrong with that at all.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by kane

Profiling would be if I looked at the apples and assumed that the ones with a slightly longer stem were better simply because they had a longer stem

Would you have valid statistics to back that fact up? Because profiling has. Thats the very point - you back your profiling with valid statistics.

[kane]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

So you are for no stops at all even if somebody is clearly up for no good?
Stops must happen, frisks must happen. And if one person has lets say 0.0001% chance of fitting the bill and another 0.0002% chance than obviously they have to stop the second one. Sorry that all other things being equal (eg both looking same sketchy or same average or same decent) it has to be the black guy. you simply can not choose smaller chances over bigger chances. And there is nothing wrong with that at all.

I just prefer to wait until someone actually commits a crime or is clearly in the act of committing a crime before shaking them down.

I don't want to be pulled over and have myself and my car searched because I happen to have long hair and some profile might say that guys with long hair are more likely to have drugs on them than guys with short hair.

There is a difference between profiling and actually clearly seeing that someone is up to no good.

If a guy is walking down the street and he is going into people's yards and looking in windows that could look suspicious and it might be reasonable for the police to stop and talk to this guy. If a guy is walking down the sidewalk listening to some music and not bothering anyone he shouldn't be stopped no matter what race, creed, color or hue he might be.

[xholly]

Originally Posted by kane

Profiling would be if I looked at the apples and assumed that the ones with a slightly longer stem were better simply because they had a longer stem or that the ones on the bottom of the bin were better simply because they were on the bottom of the bin.

So if you worked as an apple quality control enforcer and had seen statistics showing that the apples with shorter stems were 5 times more likely to contain a worm even though there are of course many fine and delicious shorter stemmed apples.

Wouldnt it be your professional duty ro examine the shorter stemmed ones a little more closely?

In subtle ways and sometimes not so subtle you judge and are judged by every person you see and meet. Its the way humans operate and being wary of the guy dressed up like a gangster pumping rap music out of his car in the hood.. well profiling such characters and avoiding them can actually increase your life expectancy

[kane]

Originally Posted by xholly

So if you worked as an apple quality control enforcer and had seen statistics showing that the apples with shorter stems were 5 times more likely to contain a worm even though there are of course many fine and delicious shorter stemmed apples.

Wouldnt it be your professional duty ro examine the shorter stemmed ones a little more closely?

In subtle ways and sometimes not so subtle you judge and are judged by every person you see and meet. Its the way humans operate and being wary of the guy dressed up like a gangster pumping rap music out of his car in the hood.. well profiling such characters and avoiding them can actually increase your life expectancy

You can't really compare apples to people.

Call me crazy. I don't want to live in a society where I can be stopped, questioned and possibly searched or detained by the police simply because of the way I look on the off chance that it might make the crime rate drop by some tiny fraction.

[xholly]

Originally Posted by kane

You can't really compare apples to people.

Call me crazy. I don't want to live in a society where I can be stopped, questioned and possibly searched or detained by the police simply because of the way I look on the off chance that it might make the crime rate drop by some tiny fraction.

you can be stopped, questioned and possibly searched for a thousand different reasons or maybe no reason at all. In the real world the image you present to society actually matters an race is just one of a hundred factors we use to sum up a person and not necessarily the most significant. Is this first impression always right?? of course not.

wanna dress like a thug/gangster because you think its a cool look then don't be surprised when people react or assume you are one. It is of course the image of yourself that you are choosing to send to the world.

[kane]

Originally Posted by xholly

you can be stopped, questioned and possibly searched for a thousand different reasons or maybe no reason at all. In the real world the image you present to society actually matters an race is just one of a hundred factors we use to sum up a person and not necessarily the most significant. Is this first impression always right?? of course not.

wanna dress like a thug/gangster because you think its a cool look then don't be surprised when people react or assume you are one. It is of course the image of yourself that you are choosing to send to the world.

You are correct. There are a ton of reason the police and stop and question me. There is no reason to give them any more.

[dyna mo]

macklemore, saving gays and blacks.

what a tard.

[winter_]

Originally Posted by xholly

Really cant work out why this was such a big deal in America. How could anyone seriously say profiling does not work, basically the whole of marketing relies on it. Seems they were both shit stains to me and Martin probably had only a few more years to go before he would be going to jail anyway.

its a big deal to a media who is too stupid to realise they are dividing an entire world.

now zimmerman has stayed in the news with speeding tickets and domestic violence but why? because the media can't let it go and the zimmerman/martin scandal is still a rich lemon with more juice to be squeezed out of before the event doesn't make money anymore is left in history then we look back fifty years later and nothing has changed with race relations.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Pretty quickly, but I don't think it happens every time. Maybe once in 20 times? Once in 50 times?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lace-work.html
Convenience store worker sues Florida police for racial profiling after they stopped him 258 times for trespassing at his JOB
Earl Sampson, 28, says he was searched more than 100 times, jailed 56 times and arrested 62 times
He and his boss, Alex Saleh, are planning to sue the city of Miami Gardens and its police department for racial profiling and illegally stopping and searching citizens
The shop owner said he has more than two dozen surveillance videos to support his case
Footage shows Sampson being harassed by police officers while he’s at work, sometimes two to three times a day, by the same officers, without any justified cause


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2lknVr6sZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[tony286]

Originally Posted by winter_

its a big deal to a media who is too stupid to realise they are dividing an entire world.

now zimmerman has stayed in the news with speeding tickets and domestic violence but why? because the media can't let it go and the zimmerman/martin scandal is still a rich lemon with more juice to be squeezed out of before the event doesn't make money anymore is left in history then we look back fifty years later and nothing has changed with race relations.

I think its more because Zim is a piece of shit with a long history of being a piece of shit. A truly honorable guy wouldnt of fucked the lawyers that saved his life, blow the money that was donated for his defense, domestic violence with his ex wife then his ex girlfriend. Keeping telling yourself Trayvon was a thug. lol

[Black All Through]

Originally Posted by sandman!

who gives a fuck what some random artist thinks lol

[Best-In-BC]

Originally Posted by escorpio

Yeah, look how well it turned out for Trayvon.

Id rather die defending my self from a psycho like how he acted, and I will teach my kids not to bow to shit heads like that and they got a crazy fucking dad to deal with shits like that too and Ill always be one phone call away.

[arock10]

Well first off the trayvon/Zimmerman case should've been an issue of gun control. No gun, no one dead.

Second, read up on nyc's stop and frisk and just how useless it was. And how many more white people got busted % wise. And how many non white people got searched over and over and over. Nothing like being violated repeatedly because you aren't white.

[Best-In-BC]

Originally Posted by arock10

Nothing like being violated repeatedly because you aren't white.

Thank god Im Canadian! well.. and White.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

I would bet my money if white person drove in all black town he/she would be pulled off

I need to start visiting black towns - if the puller-offers are women, anyway.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by xholly

you can be stopped, questioned and possibly searched for a thousand different reasons or maybe no reason at all. In the real world the image you present to society actually matters an race is just one of a hundred factors we use to sum up a person and not necessarily the most significant. Is this first impression always right?? of course not.

wanna dress like a thug/gangster because you think its a cool look then don't be surprised when people react or assume you are one. It is of course the image of yourself that you are choosing to send to the world.

yes.. image does say a lot

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by Best-In-BC

Id rather die defending my self from a psycho like how he acted, and I will teach my kids not to bow to shit heads like that and they got a crazy fucking dad to deal with shits like that too and Ill always be one phone call away.

Don't cry like a bitch when your kids end up like Trayvon.

[Tom_PM]

I'm busy so I'm not going to make this long.

If you know factually that a short stemmed apple has more worms then you are not profiling based on the stem length. You would only me profiling based on stem length if it was a random check of apples and you chose more short stems for no other reason than them having a short stem. Get it?

Zimmerman did not even need to racially profile Martin and that's why it's just a giant fail to call it racial profiling. Everything that moron Zimmerman said to cops and 911 operators screamed CRIMINAL profiling. He thought he was a CRIMINAL casing the houses even though cops disagreed completely with him on that point, the fact is that he thought he was a "fucking punk" and one of "these assholes that always get away". That doesn't say RACE even a little bit. He profiled him as a CRIMINAL. For which there was ZERO evidence or proof, and the cops said IN TRIAL that they would not have even slowed down if they had seen Trayvon doing ALL of the things that Zimmerman claimed he was doing (while building up his defense case mind you).


In short, you have to be able to distinguish what you're measuring before you announce a measurement. If Conan O'Brien stole a lady's purse and I tell the cops that it was a 7 foot tall pasty white guy with red hair and they put out the call to be on the lookout for a tall red haired white guy, it is not racial profiling!