I just had a look at the Sell & Buy Forum...

[MaDalton]

My dear fellow content producers & licensors: You depress me.

Thanks for reading.

[ErectMedia]

Tom says Vitamins & Exercise cures depression

[RyuLion]

Buy and sell = Spam your lungs out

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by ErectMedia

Tom says Vitamins & Exercise cures depression

Tom Cruise is a nutjob...

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

Tom Cruise is a nutjob...

Nothin' a little electroshock can't cure.

[mineistaken]

1 cent on the dollar

[NALEM]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

My dear fellow content producers & licensors: You depress me.

Thanks for reading.

I don't sell or buy content, but was thinking the very same thing earlier today.

[marlboroack]

You depress us.

[Lykos]

I have the same felling...

I mean don't get me wrong, i did made a thread there few days ago, but after several months...
It's crazy how you can buy videos for 1-2$ each or even less from some providers.

Both me and Stefan knows the game behind this... And i am sure both of us WILL NEVER sell so cheap... and yet to be legal and trusted with our buyers.

My

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by marlboroack

You depress us.

funny coming from you...

Originally Posted by Lykos

I have the same felling...

I mean don't get me wrong, i did made a thread there few days ago, but after several months...
It's crazy how you can buy videos for 1-2$ each or even less from some providers.

Both me and Stefan knows the game behind this... And i am sure both of us WILL NEVER sell so cheap... and yet to be legal and trusted with our buyers.

My

exactly

[dyna mo]

madalton, do you do custom micro-niche packages?

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

madalton, do you do custom micro-niche packages?

depends on the micro niche - it should be something we can relate to, nothing worse than niche content shot by someone that has no clue what turns people on about this specific content

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

depends on the micro niche - it should be something we can relate to, nothing worse than niche content shot by someone that has no clue what turns people on about this specific content

sorry, i meant for the content you have available @ amazingcontent.

i've done a search and see you have ~100 or so sets that may fit.

[CurrentlySober]

I just looked down my toilet...

There was a pile of shit....

So your point is ????

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

sorry, i meant for the content you have available @ amazingcontent.

i've done a search and see you have ~100 or so sets that may fit.

ahh - yes - of course

if you like please email me the details to trionmedia at gmail and i'll send you an offer

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

I just looked down my toilet...

There was a pile of shit....

So your point is ????

so this was you?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

ahh - yes - of course

if you like please email me the details to trionmedia at gmail and i'll send you an offer

[BFT3K]

The reality is we are all selling a product that is virtually free, so how much is content really worth now? How much do you charge an eskimo for ice cubes?

How long does it take to recoup the cost of hiring a model for $1,000 or more, versus paying $100 for 100 scenes?

Everyone wants exclusive content, of course, but is it even worth it any more?

Add to this, that once your "exclusive" scene is up on your site, how long before it is stolen, copied, shared, tubed, etc?

For solo fetish and softcore I now pay $50 to $100 p/hour for models, and I can film 2 to 4 scenes with pics p/hour.

I've seen some nice models offered for content on this forum through different producers, and when I've asked for rates, some producers (not naming names) have come back with totally ridiculous rates - like $2,000 for 1 hour of solo softcore, etc.

Free porn is the dumbest thing this industry decided to embrace, but it is what it is. As long as it remains free, content, no matter how good it is, is going to feel the pinch of devaluation, as it is now trickle down stupidity.

I don't know of any other business that bent over this far to destroy itself.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by Lykos

It's crazy how you can buy videos for 1-2$ each or even less from some providers.

I question the legitimacy of the content from someone who sells it so cheap. It doesn't even make sense.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by DWB

I question the legitimacy of the content from someone who sells it so cheap. It doesn't even make sense.

it's for sure someone who has not shot one minute of content in his life himself and also must be extremely desperate...

[PornDiscounts-V]

It has gotten better over the past few weeks.

[AFSC]

I understand how some don't like the philosophy behind selling so cheap, but I'll add my opinion here.

For content brokers who operate on a revshare basis, you have little chance of doing these $5, $3, $1 per scene deals because the provider will never ok such a deal.

For 2 years now we have been buying out studio libraries, therefore no revshare and no need to get approval from a studio on pricing. The risk of recouping our investment falls solely on us.

We walk into 2 studios in Chatsworth and pick up 2500 scenes (500 DVD's) and pay them a one time lump sum payment of $50,000. Honestly there are studios lining up to do these bulk one time payment deals. We get masters, high res art work and matching photosets. In essence we pay $20 a scene and we now have resale rights (Internet, Mobile, Tube, iPTV, Broadcast, VOD).

Now understand, we can't expect to walk into a studio like Vivid, or Evil Angel and ever get a deal like this or any resale deal at all. Some premium lines we pay a lot more for, and you will be unlikely to see that content included in a $1 deal.

We contact our major customers by phone and email and offer them deals on DVD's or scenes, and even photosets. Many customers are on automatic and simply take anything new that they dont currently have. After that we put the content on our site in DVD and scene format and sell at full price and sometimes offer a 50% off once a week deal. Even at 50% off a $65 HD scene, we are still making a profit per scene and the customer get a great deal.

Once we have doubled our money on our investment we then have the leeway on that content to make bulk deals at low prices such as $1 scenes. In other words there comes a point when we stop looking at the per scene cost, and instead focus only on the size of the sale ($100, $1,000, $10,000). We routinely do deals for 5000 SD scenes, up to 15,000 SD scenes.

The customer is happy for getting good quality content at cheap prices, the studios are happy because they are getting lump sum payments since DVD sales are dead and 90% of the studios don't do in-house licensing. We simply keep reinvesting our profits into buying more studios. And ever since we have resolved our website/server issues and all content is now 100% downloadable, the experience for all has been smooth. Our past problems are well documented, but like any growing company our launch had problems all around, we have come full circle 4 years later and think we now provide a great experience for all.

To vendors like Lykos, Duck and MaDalton, those are 3 of the best guys in the business and I admire them for what they have done over the years. They have top reputations and continue to supply good content. In effect they are part of the reason we came up with this strategy. They do a lot revshare with their content partners, so this was a way we thought we could separate ourselves from our competition.

Our philosophy is simply to be profitable. We pay for our content, we resell it to make a profit, programs and webmasters buy the content and in turn make money. Everyone wins.

[MaDalton]

i doubt very much that "everyone wins"

people get the impression that a scene is worth 1 or 2 bucks and therefore no one gets hurt when they give it away for free

or why even bother paying anything at all?

it's your business model, can't do anything about that

but i would like to let you know that this has become really annoying

[media]

Originally Posted by NALEM

I don't sell or buy content, but was thinking the very same thing earlier today.

Actually, if you are still covering webmaster events and taking photos of events and charging for advertising, then YES, you do sell content.. just a different kind..

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by AFSC

I understand how some don't like the philosophy behind selling so cheap, but I'll add my opinion here.

For content brokers who operate on a revshare basis, you have little chance of doing these $5, $3, $1 per scene deals because the provider will never ok such a deal.

For 2 years now we have been buying out studio libraries, therefore no revshare and no need to get approval from a studio on pricing. The risk of recouping our investment falls solely on us.

We walk into 2 studios in Chatsworth and pick up 2500 scenes (500 DVD's) and pay them a one time lump sum payment of $50,000. Honestly there are studios lining up to do these bulk one time payment deals. We get masters, high res art work and matching photosets. In essence we pay $20 a scene and we now have resale rights (Internet, Mobile, Tube, iPTV, Broadcast, VOD).

Now understand, we can't expect to walk into a studio like Vivid, or Evil Angel and ever get a deal like this or any resale deal at all. Some premium lines we pay a lot more for, and you will be unlikely to see that content included in a $1 deal.

We contact our major customers by phone and email and offer them deals on DVD's or scenes, and even photosets. Many customers are on automatic and simply take anything new that they dont currently have. After that we put the content on our site in DVD and scene format and sell at full price and sometimes offer a 50% off once a week deal. Even at 50% off a $65 HD scene, we are still making a profit per scene and the customer get a great deal.

Once we have doubled our money on our investment we then have the leeway on that content to make bulk deals at low prices such as $1 scenes. In other words there comes a point when we stop looking at the per scene cost, and instead focus only on the size of the sale ($100, $1,000, $10,000). We routinely do deals for 5000 SD scenes, up to 15,000 SD scenes.

The customer is happy for getting good quality content at cheap prices, the studios are happy because they are getting lump sum payments since DVD sales are dead and 90% of the studios don't do in-house licensing. We simply keep reinvesting our profits into buying more studios. And ever since we have resolved our website/server issues and all content is now 100% downloadable, the experience for all has been smooth. Our past problems are well documented, but like any growing company our launch had problems all around, we have come full circle 4 years later and think we now provide a great experience for all.

To vendors like Lykos, Duck and MaDalton, those are 3 of the best guys in the business and I admire them for what they have done over the years. They have top reputations and continue to supply good content. In effect they are part of the reason we came up with this strategy. They do a lot revshare with their content partners, so this was a way we thought we could separate ourselves from our competition.

Our philosophy is simply to be profitable. We pay for our content, we resell it to make a profit, programs and webmasters buy the content and in turn make money. Everyone wins.

Still where is the business model behind that 1$ per scene? I mean even after you double the money why sell it for that low?

If you have something worth more why sell it for cents on the dollar only because you doubled the money already?
Its like you buy something for 50$, sell it for 100$, already doubled the money and decide to sell it for 1$ afterwards? Why? Why not 25$ or 10$? I mean just because you sold it twice already and doubled the money it does not make that scene worth 50 times less.
It is not understandable business model, it is selling out or desperate business model.
Its like tubes ruined adult business with free content, content sellers ruining it in the similar way (1$ is basically free for b2b content sale).

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Still where is the business model behind that 1$ per scene? I mean even after you double the money why sell it for that low?

If you have something worth more why sell it for cents on the dollar only because you doubled the money already?
Its like you buy something for 50$, sell it for 100$, already doubled the money and decide to sell it for 1$ afterwards? Why? Why not 25$ or 10$? I mean just because you sold it twice already and doubled the money it does not make that scene worth 50 times less.
It is not understandable business model, it is selling out or desperate business model.
Its like tubes ruined adult business with free content, content sellers ruining it in the similar way (1$ is basically free for b2b content sale).

nicely said...


I have a different approach to this:

first of all: i rather deal with 10 people than 100

second: i make sure that our content is still worth something, people who bought it years ago appreciate that

third: as a client i would consider it a kick in the balls when content that i bought for $20 a scene is sold weeks later for $1 - because i paid a lot more for something that's now worthless

but like i said - not my decision - i'd only consider doing business like this if i'd plan to retire soon and would give a fuck what happens after i left

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

Still where is the business model behind that 1$ per scene? I mean even after you double the money why sell it for that low?

If you have something worth more why sell it for cents on the dollar only because you doubled the money already?

Its like you buy something for 50$, sell it for 100$, already doubled the money and decide to sell it for 1$ afterwards? Why? Why not 25$ or 10$? I mean just because you sold it twice already and doubled the money it does not make that scene worth 50 times less.
It is not understandable business model, it is selling out or desperate business model.
Its like tubes ruined adult business with free content, content sellers ruining it in the similar way (1$ is basically free for b2b content sale).

We are now selling a product that is FREE - TOTALLY FUCKING FREE!

The idiots in this business shit on their own dinner plates, and no one stopped them.

Why pay ANYTHING for FREE content?!

How many sites out there are selling something, using content they DO NOT EVEN OWN AT ALL?!

Why have 99% of the posters on this board gone away?

The only ones left are fighting over the scraps.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but tube sites DESTROYED the porn business.

It is now a porn "hobby" for most.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

We are now selling a product that is FREE - TOTALLY FUCKING FREE!

The idiots in this business shit on their own dinner plates, and no one stopped them.

Why pay ANYTHING for FREE content?!

How many sites out there are selling something, using content they DO NOT EVEN OWN AT ALL?!

Why have 99% of the posters on this board gone away?

The only ones left are fighting over the scraps.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but tube sites DESTROYED the porn business.

It is now a porn "hobby" for most.

I would actually disagree to a certain degree - piracy aside I consider legal tubes something like free TV - which also buys its content and finances it with advertising

and then you can spend money on pay TV, HD or Netflix etc.

once again - piracy aside - who am i to tell my clients how they run their business. if they want to give away the content for free but pay me to do so - why not

my problem are file lockers, not tube sites

but that's B2C, i am talking B2B here - and the obvious desperation of many content sellers that ruins the business for those that are in this for the long run.

and that I am in this for the long run I dont have to prove anymore after 10 years

[badgirlfilms]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

The reality is we are all selling a product that is virtually free, so how much is content really worth now? How much do you charge an eskimo for ice cubes?

How long does it take to recoup the cost of hiring a model for $1,000 or more, versus paying $100 for 100 scenes?

Everyone wants exclusive content, of course, but is it even worth it any more?

Add to this, that once your "exclusive" scene is up on your site, how long before it is stolen, copied, shared, tubed, etc?

For solo fetish and softcore I now pay $50 to $100 p/hour for models, and I can film 2 to 4 scenes with pics p/hour.

I've seen some nice models offered for content on this forum through different producers, and when I've asked for rates, some producers (not naming names) have come back with totally ridiculous rates - like $2,000 for 1 hour of solo softcore, etc.

Free porn is the dumbest thing this industry decided to embrace, but it is what it is. As long as it remains free, content, no matter how good it is, is going to feel the pinch of devaluation, as it is now trickle down stupidity.

I don't know of any other business that bent over this far to destroy itself.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

We are now selling a product that is FREE - TOTALLY FUCKING FREE!

The idiots in this business shit on their own dinner plates, and no one stopped them.

Why pay ANYTHING for FREE content?!

How many sites out there are selling something, using content they DO NOT EVEN OWN AT ALL?!

Why have 99% of the posters on this board gone away?

The only ones left are fighting over the scraps.

I know it's beating a dead horse, but tube sites DESTROYED the porn business.

It is now a porn "hobby" for most.

While I agree with some or most of your points this reply is a bit irrelevant to my point, because he actually sells that content for "normal" bulk price at first and after he doubles the money he drops the price 20 or 50 TIMES. Point is that he actually sells for normal price. And only then starts giving it for free. Then again he gets new scenes and sells for normal price before giving it for free.

By doing that he destroys whole content selling business because after his clients notice that he drops price to 1$(free) after few normal price deals, they no longer want to buy for normal price. Why buy if you know that after you buy it he would drop prices to free (1$).

Whole point is that he can sell it for normal price even in todays market, yet he chooses to lose all that by encouraging 1$ deals instead.