This is a nice example of how the rich create jobs

[crockett]

Yum! Brands is the parent company that owns Taco Bell, KFC and Pizza Hut. They are a pretty profitable outfit that employes about 400k workers here in the US. Sounds like the perfect example of how large business with highly paid CEO creates jobs in America..

However the reality is this company made over 1.6 billion last year it cost tax payers 650 million in welfare and public housing assistance due to the fact almost all it's employees are paid little to nothing over minimum wage. The CEO however made $94 million in 2011&12 through his performance pay structure. The added bonus for tax payers is the Yum! Is able to deduct his salary which cost the tax payers an additional $33 million in lost tax revenue.

Well there you have it, that's how the rich create jobs in America.. Obviously the solution is to do away with welfare...

http://iacknowledge.net/major-ceo-ma...yees-welfare1/

[klinton]

capital accumulation.....

[ottopottomouse]

I don't know how welfare works in America but how can it cost the state more for someone to be in a minimum wage job than if they didn't work at all?

[woj]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

I don't know how welfare works in America but how can it cost the state more for someone to be in a minimum wage job than if they didn't work at all?

obviously someone working minimum wage job is better off than not working at all, otherwise they wouldn't take on that job... and of course government is better off too, because less needs to spent on welfare... but somehow that "captain obvious" fact is too complicated to work out for the socialists around here...

[deltav]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

I don't know how welfare works in America but how can it cost the state more for someone to be in a minimum wage job than if they didn't work at all?

That's not the point the OP is making. Read the article.

The CEO makes nearly $100 million, but because of the performance-incentive pay structure the company is able to *deduct* this amount from their taxes. So they basically hit society with a double whammy - firstly not paying their workers a living wage and forcing them to rely on welfare/assistance programs paid for by everyone else, and secondly - writing off the ungodly salary give to their single CEO via loophole, avoiding paying tax back into society.

CEO pay is so ridiculously obscenely fucked up, and minimum wage is not a living wage yet is often the only option for unskilled workers. Not sure how anyone could argue both those points.

[SlammedMedia]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

I don't know how welfare works in America but how can it cost the state more for someone to be in a minimum wage job than if they didn't work at all?

What he said.

[woj]

Originally Posted by deltav

That's not the point the OP is making. Read the article.

The CEO makes nearly $100 million, but because of the performance-incentive pay structure the company is able to *deduct* this amount from their taxes. So they basically hit society with a double whammy - firstly not paying their workers a living wage and forcing them to rely on welfare/assistance programs paid for by everyone else, and secondly - writing off the ungodly salary give to their single CEO via loophole, avoiding paying tax back into society.

CEO pay is so ridiculously obscenely fucked up, and minimum wage is not a living wage yet is often the only option for unskilled workers. Not sure how anyone could argue both those points.

Except CEO salary has nothing to do with anything, it's not your company, so how is it any of your concern? They could be paying CEOs 10 Billion for all I care, it's their money, they can spend it any way they wish... what gives you the right to decide/judge how much some company pays their management?

[xNetworx]

Fuck you. Now I want a fresco crunchy taco

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by deltav

CEO pay is so ridiculously obscenely fucked up, and minimum wage is not a living wage yet is often the only option for unskilled workers. Not sure how anyone could argue both those points.

answer came quickly enough eh?

faster shit turns into china, faster we can fix it

Originally Posted by woj

Except CEO salary has nothing to do with anything, it's not your company, so how is it any of your concern? They could be paying CEOs 10 Billion for all I care, it's their money, they can spend it any way they wish... what gives you the right to decide/judge how much some company pays their management?

because that CEO is deducting the bonus from his/her(LOL) taxes

[deltav]

Originally Posted by woj

Except CEO salary has nothing to do with anything, it's not your company, so how is it any of your concern? They could be paying CEOs 10 Billion for all I care, it's their money, they can spend it any way they wish... what gives you the right to decide/judge how much some company pays their management?

Because ahhh, they could pay their rank & file employees more - maybe a living wage for a change?

But that's admittedly a simplification and largely symbolic. Income inequality brings with it a whole host of other ills and complications throughout society, some straightforward, some not so apparent at first. And if you're at all a student of history, that itself is "captain obvious".

[L-Pink]

Kind of misleading. Any expense associated with doing business is tax deductible, meaning it reduces the taxable bottom line. The cashier at Pizza Hut, her salary is not taxed by the corporation either. The individual pays taxes to the federal gov. The CEO is taxed on his income instead of the corp, just like a cashier. If the CEO gets stock, it's sold when he sells it.

Don't make it seem like CEO pay isn't taxed, it is.


.

[woj]

Originally Posted by deltav

Because ahhh, they could pay their rank & file employees more - maybe a living wage for a change?

But that's admittedly a simplification and largely symbolic. Income inequality brings with it a whole host of other ills and complications throughout society, some straightforward, some not so apparent at first. And if you're at all a student of history, that itself is "captain obvious".

They certainly "could"... they could convert themselves to a non-profit charity too... but they don't do either, because they are a business and so the main objective is to make money...

and really, if you look at the numbers, $100M would translates to about $20/month raise for all their 400k employees... so even if the company found some sucker to work as a CEO for free... it would translate to only $20/month or about 12 cents per hour raise... a really trivial amount in grand scheme of things...

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

because that CEO is deducting the bonus from his/her(LOL) taxes

What? You can't DEDUCT a bonus from your personal taxes, lol. Bonuses are taxable income.

[deltav]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Kind of misleading. Any expense associated with doing business is tax deductible, meaning it reduces the taxable bottom line. The cashier at Pizza Hut, her salary is not taxed by the corporation either. The individual pays taxes to the federal gov. The CEO is taxed on his income instead of the corp, just like a cashier. If the CEO gets stock, it's sold when he sells it.

Don't make it seem like CEO pay isn't taxed, it is.

Again, read the article closer.

[LightscapeMedia]

In the words of the great motivator, Dave Ramsey - "Think you're worth more than minimum wage - then prove it." Also "Rather than vilifying the rich, figure out what they're doing and go out and do some of it."

Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. Those who've gone through life and have only made minimum wage simply haven't applied themselves.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by woj

Except CEO salary has nothing to do with anything, it's not your company, so how is it any of your concern? They could be paying CEOs 10 Billion for all I care, it's their money, they can spend it any way they wish... what gives you the right to decide/judge how much some company pays their management?

It's our concern because it's taxes that should of been collected but a CEO loop hole is abused (granted one obviously put in place by our corrupt public officials) and due to the fact the company pays such low wages the tax payers have to pick up the social services cost.. Also the company just like wallmart tells it's employees how to get the most out of welfare, public housing ect..ect..

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by woj

Except CEO salary has nothing to do with anything, it's not your company, so how is it any of your concern? They could be paying CEOs 10 Billion for all I care, it's their money, they can spend it any way they wish... what gives you the right to decide/judge how much some company pays their management?

The core of the problem between left and right in this conversation is that though liberals and conservatives both believe deeply in "fairness" as a component to morality.... Liberals see "fairness" as equality of outcome and conservatives see "fairness" as equality of opportunity. You can never perfectly guarantee outcome and you can arguably never perfectly guarantee equality of opportunity. This is also one of many reasons why there can never be consensus on these issues.

The brilliance of a 2 party system is that through incessant arguing and disagreement between 2 ends, the center is always defined. Though it could be reasoned that the wise position is to not be irrational and argue as if there's only one correct view and one right answer, the system itself does in fact rely on those very things to function at more or less, optimal performance.

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's our concern because it's taxes that should of been collected but a CEO loop whole is abused (grants one obviously put in place by our corrupt public officials) and due to the fact the company pays such low wages the tax payers have to pick up the social services cost.. Also the company just like wallmart tells it's employees how to get the most out of welfare, public housing ect..ect..

Do you think that a person who calls it a "loop whole" is worth much more than minimum wage to begin with?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

Do you think that a person who calls it a "loop whole" is worth much more than minimum wage to begin with?

It's called Apple's lovely auto correct....

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

What? You can't DEDUCT a bonus from your personal taxes, lol. Bonuses are taxable income.

are you sure?

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...5448/index.htm

shits over 10 years old man

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's called Apple's lovely auto correct....

Amazing that it chose a phonetically identical word, which might be confused for someone typing with a learning disability - rather than a variant that is either commonly used or grammatically correct as it normally would.

[SlammedMedia]

What do you want these companies to do...really though? You throw out some big numbers thinking they mean something, but when they're broken down the really don't mean a lot.

Say Yum! Brands went and gave 1/2 their net income way -- $800,000,000 and shared it equally with all 400,000 of their employees. That's a whopping $5.48 more a day per person..you honestly think that's going to change people's lives?

My guess is it gets a very high percentage of them high or drunk a bit more often and buys a few more packs of cigarettes. It's not going to change their lives at all.

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by crockett

It's called Apple's lovely auto correct....

You know.. I don't fault the rich for being rich. But in many cases I fault the poor for being poor (And I'm excluding those with extreme disabilities that prevent them from making it in the world)

Let's examine why they're poor. Did they not take advantage of the free education they were provided with? Did they dick around and smoke pot rather than going to class? Were they born into it? Plenty of people are born poor and die rich - if they're motivated to do so. Did they make poor choices in life and that's why they're poor now?

In America, I firmly believe that ANYONE who applies themselves, regardless of background can become rich.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

are you sure?

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...5448/index.htm

shits over 10 years old man

When you receive a "stock option" you pay tax when you sell that stock. You defer taxes, you don't avoid them.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by woj

They certainly "could"... they could convert themselves to a non-profit charity too... but they don't do either, because they are a business and so the main objective is to make money...

and really, if you look at the numbers, $100M would translates to about $20/month raise for all their 400k employees... so even if the company found some sucker to work as a CEO for free... it would translate to only $20/month or about 12 cents per hour raise... a really trivial amount in grand scheme of things...

These threads always need a dose of reality.

[SlammedMedia]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

In America, I firmly believe that ANYONE who applies themselves, regardless of background can become rich.

I somewhat agree with you, but I also believe there are naturally strong people and naturally weak people. The strong will overcome the obstacles in their life and rise to the top, while the weak will wilt and fall to the bottom and feed off those above them.

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by SlammedMedia

I somewhat agree with you, but I also believe there are naturally strong people and naturally weak people. The strong will overcome the obstacles in their life and rise to the top, while the weak will wilt and fall to the bottom and feed off those above them.

If everyone made enough money, then who would clean the toilets?

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by SlammedMedia

I somewhat agree with you, but I also believe there are naturally strong people and naturally weak people. The strong will overcome the obstacles in their life and rise to the top, while the weak will wilt and fall to the bottom and feed off those above them.

By the way.. I find it ironic that Liberals firmly believe in evolution - survival of the fittest. Except when it comes to people of course..

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

In the words of the great motivator, Dave Ramsey - "Think you're worth more than minimum wage - then prove it." Also "Rather than vilifying the rich, figure out what they're doing and go out and do some of it."

Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. Those who've gone through life and have only made minimum wage simply haven't applied themselves.

Totally agreed.

Aside from owning my own company...I've worked my way from the bottom ranks to upper management in two different companies over the years. Along the way I've seen the poor work ethic and habits of co-workers who would rather bitch and complain about their low wages...rather than strive to work their way up the ladder.

[BlackCrayon]

i'd like to see what these companies would do if everyone just suddenly refused to work for minimum wage and quit, including illegals.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Totally agreed.

Aside from owning my own company...I've worked my way from the bottom ranks to upper management in two different companies over the years. Along the way I've seen the poor work ethic and habits of co-workers who would rather bitch and complain about their low wages...rather than strive to work their way up the ladder.

in many minimum wage job there is no ladder to climb. more and more people are being told to work more and expect less. what great motivation. as time goes on there will be many more people than jobs available and we will have to accept that not everyone will ever be able to have one regardless of the pay.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

When you receive a "stock option" you pay tax when you sell that stock. You defer taxes, you don't avoid them.

so if i started googling for 'buy back schemes', im not gonna find anything?

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i'd like to see what these companies would do if everyone just suddenly refused to work for minimum wage and quit, including illegals.

The thing is that it's a low skilled job and it pays as such. People who argue to raise wages simply do not understand economics.

You guys act like if the guy working the drive through suddenly got $30/hr it would solve all of society's problems. You forget that other skilled jobs would go up proportionally as well and then his $30/hr raise is meaningless.

A wage is simply a number that represents what the job is worth.

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

in many minimum wage job there is no ladder to climb. more and more people are being told to work more and expect less. what great motivation. as time goes on there will be many more people than jobs available and we will have to accept that not everyone will ever be able to have one regardless of the pay.

So make your own job.. That's what I did.. and anyone who's motivated can too.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by SlammedMedia

I somewhat agree with you, but I also believe there are naturally strong people and naturally weak people. The strong will overcome the obstacles in their life and rise to the top, while the weak will wilt and fall to the bottom and feed off those above them.

I think you are mostly correct. We are little more than apes that made a massive leap forward because of a few simple adaptations that gave us the ability to develop complex language, advanced cognitive skills and then benefitted from further adaptations for managing larger networks of social relationships (shaped through group selection) allowing us to live in massive communities without total chaos.

If someone believes in evolution, it cannot possibly be reasoned that within that framework for adaptations and advancement that we were all born with exact equal abilities, intelligence, drive, will and so on to all perform the exact same tasks and roles in a complex society requiring that a vastly wide array of varying roles all requiring different skills and intelligence be filled for that society to function.

No society can properly organize, govern and secure itself as a group of nothing but rocket scientists any better than it could as a group of nothing but ditch diggers. It takes people who's personality traits are suited for each task from making tacos, to performing brain surgery, creating beautiful music to leading armies.

A funny conundrum of liberal arguments is that they will not attribute blame to the individual which then forces a logical conclusion that we are basically all the same, with equal abilities and those that "have not" must have then been "exploited" or have otherwise been taken advantage of. It's very interesting that it's so taboo to say "Bob is dumb, that's why he makes tacos for a living" but noble to say "Ron is rich, so clearly he's a greedy thief".

[F U S I O N]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

In the words of the great motivator, Dave Ramsey - "Think you're worth more than minimum wage - then prove it." Also "Rather than vilifying the rich, figure out what they're doing and go out and do some of it."

Minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. Those who've gone through life and have only made minimum wage simply haven't applied themselves.

Exactly! Most of the people that work at these places dont deserve the pay they are already getting. Whatever happened to EARNING a paycheck, not just showing up to work and believing you're entitled to wealth. Most companies offer programs to better yourself and further your career and pay scale. How many of these people are taking advantage of these programs? No one is forcing them to work these jobs. No one is forcing them to only live off ONE job. You do what you need to to survive and provide...

Everytime I read this stuff I am reminded of the whole "give every kid a trophy" argument. Yea lets pay everyone 20 bucks an hour. Lets not make them earn it tho or provide any kind of incentive

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so if i started googling for 'buy back schemes', im not gonna find anything?

You know on the internet you can find photos of women's assholes being used as Fruit-Loop cereal bowls so I'm sure you can dig up some weird sourced sensationalization article skirting the truth. Much like the op's post.

Attached is an IRS link dealing with "stock options", read it yourself. You pay taxes.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc427.html


.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

in many minimum wage job there is no ladder to climb. more and more people are being told to work more and expect less. what great motivation. as time goes on there will be many more people than jobs available and we will have to accept that not everyone will ever be able to have one regardless of the pay.

Then continue looking for a better opportunity elsewhere while working the shit job.

Been there...done that.

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by F U S I O N

Exactly! Most of the people that work at these places dont deserve the pay they are already getting. Whatever happened to EARNING a paycheck, not just showing up to work and believing you're entitled to wealth. Most companies offer programs to better yourself and further your career and pay scale. How many of these people are taking advantage of these programs? No one is forcing them to work these jobs. No one is forcing them to only live off ONE job. You do what you need to to survive and provide...

Everytime I read this stuff I am reminded of the whole "give every kid a trophy" argument. Yea lets pay everyone 20 bucks an hour. Lets not make them earn it tho or provide any kind of incentive

Here's an example.. Taco Bell offers tuition reimbursement. I wonder how many are motivated to take advantage of that and improve their skill set:

http://yumcareers.com/about-yum/benefits.html

That's not a ladder?

[deltav]

Lol, this thread is a nice reminder why it's a waste of time discussing politics or social issues on GFY.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

You know on the internet you can find photos of women's assholes being used as Fruit-Loop cereal bowls so I'm sure you can dig up some weird sourced sensationalization article skirting the truth. Much like the op's post.

Attached is an IRS link dealing with "stock options", read it yourself. You pay taxes.

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc427.html


.

yep, my mistake

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by deltav

That's not the point the OP is making. Read the article.

The CEO makes nearly $100 million, but because of the performance-incentive pay structure the company is able to *deduct* this amount from their taxes. So they basically hit society with a double whammy - firstly not paying their workers a living wage and forcing them to rely on welfare/assistance programs paid for by everyone else, and secondly - writing off the ungodly salary give to their single CEO via loophole, avoiding paying tax back into society.

CEO pay is so ridiculously obscenely fucked up, and minimum wage is not a living wage yet is often the only option for unskilled workers. Not sure how anyone could argue both those points.

So what?

2 situations:
those 400k employees work for Yum!
those 400k people are jobless

Which is better for the country/state(s)?

Also how much taxes are paid on those salaries? I am not familiar with US taxing system, but I am pretty sure every paycheck has one or couple lines which says taxes. Are these calculated in the OP?

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

The thing is that it's a low skilled job and it pays as such. People who argue to raise wages simply do not understand economics.

You guys act like if the guy working the drive through suddenly got $30/hr it would solve all of society's problems. You forget that other skilled jobs would go up proportionally as well and then his $30/hr raise is meaningless.

A wage is simply a number that represents what the job is worth.

I don't think those working fast food deserve any more than they already get. i just would like to see what these big companies who rely on people willing to work minimum wage would do if there was suddenly no one willing to work for it.

[LightscapeMedia]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

I don't think those working fast food deserve any more than they already get. i just would like to see what these big companies who rely on people willing to work minimum wage would do if there was suddenly no one willing to work for it.

But that's why it's a low paying job in the first place.. there are millions more able to take their place. Simple supply and demand.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by LightscapeMedia

So make your own job.. That's what I did.. and anyone who's motivated can too.

thats what i did too but the fact remains that society wouldn't work if everyone does this. society relies on there being a large number of people who are willing or have no choice but to work shit jobs for shit pay.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

I don't know how welfare works in America but how can it cost the state more for someone to be in a minimum wage job than if they didn't work at all?

He's an idiot; nothing to see here.

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

thats what i did too but the fact remains that society wouldn't work if everyone does this. society relies on there being a large number of people who are willing or have no choice but to work shit jobs for shit pay.

After leaving the military, I worked a number of shitty, deadend jobs for a while - I only had my grade 12 at the time. Drove forklifts, loaded trucks, did shipping/receiving...a bunch of menial labour positions.

But at the same time, I kept looking for something better. I got in with a temp agency that sent me to a printing company that needed temporary help. I was working two jobs during that time. The printing company hired me full-time after 6 months - and I began learning the pre-press trade of film stripping, paste-up and design layout. Eventually I took over their camera/darkroom dept.

I subsequently left the company about two years later after receiving a better offer from a much larger, established company. For the next few years I continued learning new skills and processes and eventually was making $18/hr. by 1987 (pretty good wage for the time...all things considered).

But at age 25 I still wasn't satisfied - and decided to take a two-year, full-time college course in computer graphics and technical illustration (combined with photography, audio/video media production). During the college course, I was also hired part-time by the Director's Film Co. of Canada to shoot TV commercial casting calls. Another new skill set.

Shortly after graduating college - I actively pursued and scored a job at $26/hr. as the lead video editor (and duplicator) at the head office for Canada's largest adult video distributor.

A few years later I founded my own production company - and by 2003 we cleared six-figures for the first time.

Or...

I could have remained working those forklifts while bitching about the minimum wage I was earning and blaming the company for 'keeping me down'.

I have very little empathy for those people in minimum wage jobs who blame the corporations for their shitty position in life. I've known too many of them over the years who mistaken think longevity equals entitlement irregardless of their poor work ethic and skill sets.

Like the old saying goes - life is what you make it.

Been there/done that.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Amazing that it chose a phonetically identical word, which might be confused for someone typing with a learning disability - rather than a variant that is either commonly used or grammatically correct as it normally would.

As amazing or as I prefer not so amazing as the ipad happens to be, there is one thing it can't do and that's understand the context that the word you are typing is being used in. I understand this might boggle your little mind, but sadly technology does have its limits.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

in many minimum wage job there is no ladder to climb. more and more people are being told to work more and expect less. what great motivation. as time goes on there will be many more people than jobs available and we will have to accept that not everyone will ever be able to have one regardless of the pay.

Something else that has changed.. At one point minimum wage actually kept people out of poverty, meaning even if you worked at the lowest legal wage with a family of three, you were not in poverty. Today a person working at the lowest legal wage with one child whom works 40hrs a week, 52 weeks a year is living in poverty.

The reason for this, is because minimum wage has not kept up with inflation.

[Biggy]

Eat the rich. It will make you feel better.