Toyota selling Hydrogen cars in the US next year

[Vendzilla]

We're talking about something that is a lot better than an electric car, it has zero emissions, can be refilled in 5 minutes and isn't limited to 100 mile ranges.
Also the ecological carbon foot print is a hell of a lot smaller than those of laptop batteries that a Tesla uses.
I would consider getting one of these

http://nypost.com/2014/01/09/staffer...er-bridgegate/

Since most battery-powered cars are limited to about 100 miles per charge, the term "range anxiety" has come to mean the worries that owners face about running out of juice before they can limp home or to a public charging station. Hydrogen cars can go hundreds of miles on a fillup, and the fillup only takes about five minutes

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

We're talking about something that is a lot better than an electric car, it has zero emissions, can be refilled in 5 minutes and isn't limited to 100 mile ranges.
Also the ecological carbon foot print is a hell of a lot smaller than those of laptop batteries that a Tesla uses.
I would consider getting one of these

http://nypost.com/2014/01/09/staffer...er-bridgegate/

Since most battery-powered cars are limited to about 100 miles per charge, the term "range anxiety" has come to mean the worries that owners face about running out of juice before they can limp home or to a public charging station. Hydrogen cars can go hundreds of miles on a fillup, and the fillup only takes about five minutes

Will it go >100 miles with GOV Christie in it?

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I would consider getting one of these

http://nypost.com/2014/01/09/staffer...er-bridgegate/

wut, where do you buy a 300 pound governor?

[Vendzilla]

LOL, guess I'm posting too much
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...l-car/5313917/

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

LOL, guess I'm posting too much
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...l-car/5313917/

This is a pretty big deal.

[SBJ]

Studies have shown, he says, that fewer stations than might be expected can support the needs of a lot of drivers. As few as 68 is enough to meet the needs of drivers of 10,000 cars.

That is from the article..

So while it only take 5 mins to fill up and you can go 100's miles per fill up.. Does anyone else see traffic jams at these fill up stations if they only have 68 per 10k in cars..

It also sounds like it will be a lot more expensive than a hybrid so I'll wait 10 years when they are priced reasonably. They've had this technology for years but I didn't think the oil companies would ever allow it to happen.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Will it go >100 miles with GOV Christie in it?

not if the lanes on the bridge are closed

[nexcom28]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

We're talking about something that is a lot better than an electric car, it has zero emissions, can be refilled in 5 minutes and isn't limited to 100 mile ranges.
Also the ecological carbon foot print is a hell of a lot smaller than those of laptop batteries that a Tesla uses.
I would consider getting one of these

http://nypost.com/2014/01/09/staffer...er-bridgegate/

Since most battery-powered cars are limited to about 100 miles per charge, the term "range anxiety" has come to mean the worries that owners face about running out of juice before they can limp home or to a public charging station. Hydrogen cars can go hundreds of miles on a fillup, and the fillup only takes about five minutes

Did you post the wrong article or something?

Gov. Chris Christie on Thursday fired the top aide who brazenly plotted the crippling lane closures on the George Washington Bridge ? insisting he was ?blindsided? by the scandal but admitting that ultimately ?I?m responsible.?

?I terminated her employment because she lied to me,? Christie said about Bridget Anne Kelly, 41, his former deputy chief of staff during a nearly two-hour news conference in Trenton, adding that he had no ?inkling anyone on my staff could be so stupid and so deceitful.?

Kelly ? who sent an email to longtime Christie crony and then-Port Authority official David Wildstein that read ?Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee? ? was sent packing at 9 a.m. Thursday morning.

Christie also forced his two-time campaign manager Bill Stepien ? who was aware of the vengeful scheme and later played a role in the damage control effort ? to take his name out of the running to lead New Jersey?s Republican party.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

not if the lanes on the bridge are closed

Soemthing along these lines would have been a better 2nd post pun than the one I came up with!

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by SBJ

That is from the article..

So while it only take 5 mins to fill up and you can go 100's miles per fill up.. Does anyone else see traffic jams at these fill up stations if they only have 68 per 10k in cars..

It also sounds like it will be a lot more expensive than a hybrid so I'll wait 10 years when they are priced reasonably. They've had this technology for years but I didn't think the oil companies would ever allow it to happen.

I think they will jump on it because they have the infrastructure all set to distribute the Hydrogen.

Just think if shell or chevron decided to put this at their gas stations, we could go to 100k gas stations pretty much over night. Same thing happened with Diesel .......

[bronco67]

I'm just wondering if they can make an electric or hydrogen car that looks like a regular car, and not something out of Minority Report.

[DBS.US]

First Pipeline-Fed Hydrogen Station in the United States




The station is a collaborative effort between Toyota, Air Products, Shell, South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) and the Department of Energy (DOE). The facility will provide hydrogen for the Toyota fuel cell hybrid demonstration program vehicles as well as other manufacturers? fuel cell vehicle fleets in the Los Angeles area.
http://butlertoyota.net/2011/05/11/f...united-states/

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by DBS.US

First Pipeline-Fed Hydrogen Station in the United States




The station is a collaborative effort between Toyota, Air Products, Shell, South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) and the Department of Energy (DOE). The facility will provide hydrogen for the Toyota fuel cell hybrid demonstration program vehicles as well as other manufacturers? fuel cell vehicle fleets in the Los Angeles area.
http://butlertoyota.net/2011/05/11/f...united-states/

I think is brilliant, like I said, Shell could put these in most of their stations in a short time, it would render battery powered cars obsolete in a very short time. No tons of batteries that are polluting our world

[2MuchMark]

Lol Vendizlla, Give it up already.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

We're talking about something that is a lot better than an electric car,

No, it's worse. It's a little better than a gas car but not nearly close to being good as electric. And by the way, a Hydrogen car IS an electric car. The hydrogen gas is converted to electricity to turn an electric motor to move the car.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

it has zero emissions

Why yes it does! Good for you! So does a battery-powered electric car. However the emissions during the CREATION and REFINEMENT of Hydrogen Gas pollutes more than creating electricity.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

, can be refilled in 5 minutes

A Tesla can be "filled" in 30 minutes, by plugging it in at home or at any location anywhere, and oh yeah doesn't require a tank full of explosive Hydrogen which is only available in very few locations at this time. The infrastructure for electricity exists "right here, right now", which is not true for Hydrogen. Also, electricity can be derived from several sources that power your grid such as Hydro, Nuclear, Coal, Natrual Gas and Wind. Again not true for Hydrogen.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

and isn't limited to 100 mile ranges.

Neither is a Tesla. And if you want range, consider a Chevy Volt. It's an "extended Range" car as opposed to a hybrid. It gets about 50 miles to a charge on electricity and the gas engine kicks in to extend that range. A charge plus tank of gas (at only $30) gives you over 600 miles. AND, the infrastructure is again already in place for both gas and electric.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Also the ecological carbon foot print is a hell of a lot smaller than those of laptop batteries that a Tesla uses.

Completely wrong. 95 percent of America's hydrogen is produced from natural gas and alot of it comes from Shale and Fracking which I hope you already know are extremely problematic and throw out alot of pollution. The process is called steam methane reformation, high temperature and pressure break the hydrocarbon into hydrogen and carbon oxides ? including carbon dioxide, which is released into the atmosphere as a greenhouse gas.

Hydrogen can also be made from good old-fashioned electrolysis but the problem here is that it still takes more energy to create than you get back.

In or around 2020, the next generation of nuclear power plants will "burn" much hotter than current plants do and they will be able to reach temperatures high enough to produce hydrogen (adding steam and heat to the electrolysis process.

But lets say Vendy you argue with all of the above, fine. Knock yourself out. There's also the problem of STORING Hydrogen. At room temperature and pressure, hydrogen's density is so low that it contains less than one-three-hundredth the energy in an equivalent volume of gasoline. So to move it and store it, you need to either Liquify it by super-cooling it (which takes alot of energy), or compress it.

8 Kilograms of hydrogen can take a car about 300 miles but it has to be compressed to 10,000 PSI in order to "fit" in the tank of a car. Do you really want to drive around with a tank compressed like that?

And EVEN IF you argue with this too, you still have to transport the gas. You can send it by big trucks or put it on big trains or you can pipe it through pipelines. WHAT THE FUCK? All of the above pollutes, and is expensive, and is dangerous. All completely unnecessary when you have your trusty electric outlet in your garage.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I would consider getting one of these

I would not. My current gas car is my last gas car. I'm putting it up for sale and going for a Tesla or a Chevy Volt. Gasoline for trucks and other big rigs, and maybe SUV's, sure. But for cars? Not any more.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Since most battery-powered cars are limited to about 100 miles per charge, the term "range anxiety" has come to mean the worries that owners face about running out of juice before they can limp home or to a public charging station. Hydrogen cars can go hundreds of miles on a fillup, and the fillup only takes about five minutes

This used to be true of me, but not any more. Here in eastern Canada there are electric charging stations everywhere, and there's even many that are now free to use. A Tesla will take me 300 miles before needing a charge, and a Chevy Volt will take me even further. Neither car gives me any "range anxiety" anymore. All you need to do is calculate how far your daily commute is. If you have to go a couple of hundred miles a day then Electric isn't for you for sure. But if your commute is shorter, Electric is a fantastic option.

And way WAY better than Hydrogen (which by the way, is being pushed by Shell and the other big oil companies, just in case you didn't know).

[milan-clickpapa]

toyota FCV is an awesome beast

[slapass]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

We're talking about something that is a lot better than an electric car, it has zero emissions, can be refilled in 5 minutes and isn't limited to 100 mile ranges.
Also the ecological carbon foot print is a hell of a lot smaller than those of laptop batteries that a Tesla uses.
I would consider getting one of these

http://nypost.com/2014/01/09/staffer...er-bridgegate/

Since most battery-powered cars are limited to about 100 miles per charge, the term "range anxiety" has come to mean the worries that owners face about running out of juice before they can limp home or to a public charging station. Hydrogen cars can go hundreds of miles on a fillup, and the fillup only takes about five minutes

I know that the logic of these cars will escape you but we have better tech and options. This is a dumb idea. Just remember, you have to make the hydrogen. Look at natural gas as an option. Lots of countries do it already and we have natural gas that we are just burning off.

[dirtymind]

it is going to be really interesting when they are going to cost less and less.

[DVTimes]

it will not be long before you can charge an electric car in 5 mins.

also some places hot swap the electric battery.

and you can charge electric cars from home.

plus electric is an old technology. very few parts.

[Due]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

I think they will jump on it because they have the infrastructure all set to distribute the Hydrogen.

Just think if shell or chevron decided to put this at their gas stations, we could go to 100k gas stations pretty much over night. Same thing happened with Diesel .......

I thought diesel was the preferred fuel for trucks ? diesel didn't appear overnight, I think it's a byproduct from the regular gas production

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by **********

Lol Vendizlla, Give it up already.



No, it's worse. It's a little better than a gas car but not nearly close to being good as electric. And by the way, a Hydrogen car IS an electric car. The hydrogen gas is converted to electricity to turn an electric motor to move the car.



Why yes it does! Good for you! So does a battery-powered electric car. However the emissions during the CREATION and REFINEMENT of Hydrogen Gas pollutes more than creating electricity.



A Tesla can be "filled" in 30 minutes, by plugging it in at home or at any location anywhere, and oh yeah doesn't require a tank full of explosive Hydrogen which is only available in very few locations at this time. The infrastructure for electricity exists "right here, right now", which is not true for Hydrogen. Also, electricity can be derived from several sources that power your grid such as Hydro, Nuclear, Coal, Natrual Gas and Wind. Again not true for Hydrogen.



Neither is a Tesla. And if you want range, consider a Chevy Volt. It's an "extended Range" car as opposed to a hybrid. It gets about 50 miles to a charge on electricity and the gas engine kicks in to extend that range. A charge plus tank of gas (at only $30) gives you over 600 miles. AND, the infrastructure is again already in place for both gas and electric.



Completely wrong. 95 percent of America's hydrogen is produced from natural gas and alot of it comes from Shale and Fracking which I hope you already know are extremely problematic and throw out alot of pollution. The process is called steam methane reformation, high temperature and pressure break the hydrocarbon into hydrogen and carbon oxides ? including carbon dioxide, which is released into the atmosphere as a greenhouse gas.

Hydrogen can also be made from good old-fashioned electrolysis but the problem here is that it still takes more energy to create than you get back.

In or around 2020, the next generation of nuclear power plants will "burn" much hotter than current plants do and they will be able to reach temperatures high enough to produce hydrogen (adding steam and heat to the electrolysis process.

But lets say Vendy you argue with all of the above, fine. Knock yourself out. There's also the problem of STORING Hydrogen. At room temperature and pressure, hydrogen's density is so low that it contains less than one-three-hundredth the energy in an equivalent volume of gasoline. So to move it and store it, you need to either Liquify it by super-cooling it (which takes alot of energy), or compress it.

8 Kilograms of hydrogen can take a car about 300 miles but it has to be compressed to 10,000 PSI in order to "fit" in the tank of a car. Do you really want to drive around with a tank compressed like that?

And EVEN IF you argue with this too, you still have to transport the gas. You can send it by big trucks or put it on big trains or you can pipe it through pipelines. WHAT THE FUCK? All of the above pollutes, and is expensive, and is dangerous. All completely unnecessary when you have your trusty electric outlet in your garage.




I would not. My current gas car is my last gas car. I'm putting it up for sale and going for a Tesla or a Chevy Volt. Gasoline for trucks and other big rigs, and maybe SUV's, sure. But for cars? Not any more.



This used to be true of me, but not any more. Here in eastern Canada there are electric charging stations everywhere, and there's even many that are now free to use. A Tesla will take me 300 miles before needing a charge, and a Chevy Volt will take me even further. Neither car gives me any "range anxiety" anymore. All you need to do is calculate how far your daily commute is. If you have to go a couple of hundred miles a day then Electric isn't for you for sure. But if your commute is shorter, Electric is a fantastic option.

And way WAY better than Hydrogen (which by the way, is being pushed by Shell and the other big oil companies, just in case you didn't know).

Originally Posted by slapass

I know that the logic of these cars will escape you but we have better tech and options. This is a dumb idea. Just remember, you have to make the hydrogen. Look at natural gas as an option. Lots of countries do it already and we have natural gas that we are just burning off.

You two are looking at old ways of getting Hydrogen, when new ones are being developed
http://www.technologyreview.com/news...cell-vehicles/

BASF, the world?s largest chemical company, may have a solution. It?s developing a process that could cut those emissions in half, making hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles significantly cleaner than electric vehicles in most locations

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

it will not be long before you can charge an electric car in 5 mins.

also some places hot swap the electric battery.

and you can charge electric cars from home.

plus electric is an old technology. very few parts.

Carbon footprint to make the batteries and recycling the batteries is still going to be a bad thing.

With new tech for making Hydrogen coming out, this is a much better solution

[j3rkules]

Wow, what a difference in action than Clinton and Benghazi!

[HerPimp]

It is very easy to make hydrogen, should be able to have it in every parking lot.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Due

I thought diesel was the preferred fuel for trucks ? diesel didn't appear overnight, I think it's a byproduct from the regular gas production

Actually no, Gasoline was the by product

http://inventors.about.com/od/gstart...a/gasoline.htm

[MrBottomTooth]

I always thought they said they had issues with stability of hydrogen. Basically they used to say it was too explosive to use in a passenger vehicle. Must have fixed that over the past decade or so.

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I always thought they said they had issues with stability of hydrogen. Basically they used to say it was too explosive to use in a passenger vehicle. Must have fixed that over the past decade or so.

In liquid form using cells, they are safer than gasoline

[JFK]

BUT, yes, there's always a BUT ......
"Sure, hydrogen fuel-cell cars will cost significantly more than conventional cars and there are few stations to fuel them"

They will hose you on the price, so you can think you're saving money/enviroment etc,

Bullshit. Just like all the energy saver lightbulbs cost 4 times a much as regular ones used to and lasts a lot shorter time

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by JFK

BUT, yes, there's always a BUT ......
"Sure, hydrogen fuel-cell cars will cost significantly more than conventional cars and there are few stations to fuel them"

They will hose you on the price, so you can think you're saving money/enviroment etc,

Bullshit. Just like all the energy saver lightbulbs cost 4 times a much as regular ones used to and lasts a lot shorter time

Just like anything new, if people start using it more, the price will go down.

Basic supply and demand. I just got a new tire for my Harley, total cost was 335 dollars for one tire. It's a basic white wall tire from Dunlop. But they don't make as much of those as they do make make tires that fit say a Toyota. So for the Toyota the price will be a lot less.

I agree with you about those bulbs. Only made in China and they burn out fast and 1 in every 3 doesn't work out of the package. Thank the Government for that piece of great tech!

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

You two are looking at old ways of getting Hydrogen, when new ones are being developed
http://www.technologyreview.com/news...cell-vehicles/

BASF, the world?s largest chemical company, may have a solution. It?s developing a process that could cut those emissions in half, making hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles significantly cleaner than electric vehicles in most locations

Yes there are better ways of making hydrogen that are just around the corner, and I even addressed one in my post, but that is only part of the point.

Look at it this way. It is super-fast, easy and cheap to "transport" electricity to anywhere including your home and charging stations. The same is not true for Hydrogen. After its refined, it must be chilled, then compressed, then transported, then stored. Just getting Hydrogen from the plant to the car is both expensive and adds lots of greenhouse gasses to the air.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Carbon footprint to make the batteries and recycling the batteries is still going to be a bad thing.

With new tech for making Hydrogen coming out, this is a much better solution

No, its not.

Originally Posted by HerPimp

It is very easy to make hydrogen, should be able to have it in every parking lot.

Yes actually it is fairly easy to make Hydrogen and in fact, you can make it yourself with a plastic bucket of water, 2 glass jars, some wire and some batteries. You could even argue that you could place a solar panel on your room and make your own Hydrogen out of well water. It would work, but it requires alot of energy and would therefore take too long to do, and not be very efficient either. Next generation Nuclear reactors would do it faster and be more efficient, and maybe BASF's new method would be faster too.