Do you oppose the death penalty? Then you'll probably love this news...

[CDSmith]

Vince Li (AKA: The Manitoba Bus Beheader) to get unescorted field trips: Vince Li -- who beheaded and then reportedly ate parts of a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus in 2008, will soon be allowed to leave a mental hospital near Selkirk, Manitoba without an escort. The ruling by the Criminal Code Review Board means Li will be on his own in public for the first time since he stabbed Tim McLean almost six year ago. McLean's mother, says she's ``very disappointed'' with the board's decision.


Read up on it here--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean


The week following the attack, Greyhound Canada announced it was pulling a series of nationwide advertisements which included the line, "There's a reason you've never heard of bus rage."

On February 27, 2014, the CBC reported that on March 6, Li will be allowed to have unsupervised visits to Selkirk, starting at 30 minutes and expanding to full-day trips. Since 2013, he is allowed to have supervised visits to Lockport, Winnipeg, and nearby beaches. Those visits will be relaxed.

How nice for the poor misunderstood beheader. And springlike weather just around the corner. Many people thought this guy so deserved a death sentence if there ever was one, but not only will he not be punished he'll be on the beach this summer.

I guess all society can do is hold our collective breath, roll the dice and hope he doesn't relapse. Because if he does heads will ro... okay poor choice of words. If he does, I have no doubt there will be a renewed outcry for the death penalty for psychos like this.

[DVTimes]

Why do you believe someone who is mentally ill deserves to be put to death?

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Why do you believe someone who is mentally ill deserves to be put to death?

Fuck him. It's not what his mental state is it's what he did to someone else ?. and what he will probably do again.

[Rochard]

I used to believe in the death penalty. Kill someone, and we will kill you back.

But that's only shortening the punishment. Killing them isn't punishment. Instead, put them into a dark dank cell and force them to eat bread and water for the rest of their lives.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Why do you believe someone who is mentally ill deserves to be put to death?

Would you question a bug as to why it was biting you or would you just squish it and move on?

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Why do you believe someone who is mentally ill deserves to be put to death?

A better question might be why do you believe the insanity defense is a legitimate get out of jail free card?


There are those who still question his 'insanity' status. There are also those who believe that that defense shouldn't be enough to get someone off scott-free, and that after he is deemed fit to serve punishment he should have to do so, be it jail time or otherwise.

I'm just putting those people's opinions out there, nothing more.

But tell me, if were your kid's head that was rolling around on the floor of that bus, or your girlfriend's, or brother's, etc, would you even ask me such a question? Somehow I doubt it.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Fuck him. It's not what his mental state is it's what he did to someone else ?. and what he will probably do again.

Oh I see.

I presume you have a phd and have spent time with him so in that case you can give a valid point.

The thing is I have not and can only presume they feel he is now well and has no risk to others.

Best thing to do is chop everyone's heads off as everyone could possibly kill someone else. Better safe than sorry I guess.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Instead, put them into a dark dank cell and force them to eat bread and water for the rest of their lives.

Nice sentiment, if were true. But it isn't, is it? That's not what happens to murderers at all. Have you ever been to a maximum security pen? I had a tour of one once, and although it didn't look very inviting it certainly wasn't the 'dungeon' you're describing.

Until a life sentence for such people is as you're describing I'll continue to leave the door open for discussion on the death penalty, thanks anyway.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

A better question might be why do you believe the insanity defense is a legitimate get out of jail free card?


There are those who still question his 'insanity' status. There are also those who believe that that defense shouldn't be enough to get someone off scott-free, and that after he is deemed fit to serve punishment he should have to do so, be it jail time or otherwise.

I'm just putting those people's opinions out there, nothing more.

But tell me, if were your kid's head that was rolling around on the floor of that bus, or your girlfriend's, or brother's, etc, would you even ask me such a question? Somehow I doubt it.

Because I was a student nurse and came across many people who had mental illness and were not capable of controlling what they did.

If someone killed my kid as in your question, I would hope I could forgive the person who did it.

I have seen in the uk parents who have had someone killed and they spend there years full of hate and bitterness. It gets them no place. Hard as it is, forgiveness is the best way.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Oh I see.

I presume you have a phd and have spent time with him so in that case you can give a valid point.

Try reading and comprehending before commenting. I said regardless of his mental condition he needs to be judged by his actions.


edit ……… and the last person who needs to be discussing mental health is a wacko-skull-licking-nut-job like you.


.

[DVTimes]

I guess this is why the EU is much better than the USA as we do not kill.

To be part of the EU you are not allowed the death sentence.

I guess we are more civilised in the EU.

Murder in most EU countries is low, yet you seem to have it almost each day on a mass scale.

I guess barbaric ways leads to barbaric ways.

Anyway at least being in the EU I feel safe.

I guess if your in the USA you need to have a gun to feel safe. I pity you.

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I used to believe in the death penalty. Kill someone, and we will kill you back.

But that's only shortening the punishment. Killing them isn't punishment. Instead, put them into a dark dank cell and force them to eat bread and water for the rest of their lives.

Don't forget all the male on male rape

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Try reading and comprehending before commenting. I said regardless of his mental condition he needs to be judged by his actions.

But surly we agree he was not in control of his actions.

If he is not able to comprehend the world as he is ill, surly one thus can only conclude that any actions he took are out of his control.

[DVTimes]

Anyway I am off to walk the dog.

Its nice that I can walk knowing no one has a gun.

It must be strange to be in the USA were everyone has a gun. Scary.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I guess this is why the EU is much better than the USA as we do not kill.

To be part of the EU you are not allowed the death sentence.

I guess we are more civilised in the EU.

Murder in most EU countries is low, yet you seem to have it almost each day on a mass scale.

I guess barbaric ways leads to barbaric ways.

Anyway at least being in the EU I feel safe.

I guess if your in the USA you need to have a gun to feel safe. I pity you.

you guys figure out a better place for your nuclear waste than the coast of somalia?

talking civilized is easy...

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Anyway I am off to walk the dog.

Its nice that I can walk knowing no one has a gun.

It must be strange to be in the USA were everyone has a gun. Scary.

How did a knife welding decapitating Canadian cannibal thread turn into a discussion about US and guns?

You're fucking nuts.


.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Anyway I am off to walk the dog.

Its nice that I can walk knowing no one has a gun.

It must be strange to be in the USA were everyone has a gun. Scary.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

You're fucking nuts.


.

Of course he is. He has models put out restraining orders on him, he has had police cautions and he does this in his spare time.








He's a proven content thief, he has posted tutorials on how to get submit accounts pretending to be a sponsor so he can get credit for their content, and he is clearly a dribbling retard.

Why is anyone discussing anything with him?

[247mg]

If you killed some one you should receive death penalty else it will encourage to do more...

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

If someone killed my kid as in your question, I would hope I could forgive the person who did it.

Easy words to type and post. But ask the kid's mother to find out how easy a plan that is to execute.


Btw, I wasn't just a student. Unlike you I spent 15 years actually working in the health care field, including much time spent working the phych wards. Newsflash-- not everyone with mental problems are cluelessly unaware of their actions. A lot of faking goes on. Someone can have some low level aberrant thought processes and still be aware enough to run game on everyone, and then fall back on the insanity defense.

All I know is once this guy is deemed fit he'll be free to integrate himself back into society. I'd love to send him your way and have him move in and be your next door neighbor over in the peaceful EU.



One last thing DV --- I'm not sure how "the gun-filled USA" got involved in your rantings, this incident happened in Canada. But on that note I should point out that there are those out there with the opinion that had someone on the bus that day been armed there would have been a better chance of saving the kid. Of course the anti-gun people all have a pile of choice arguments about that as well, as I'm sure you do.

[Tom_PM]

Well, it's not really fair to say that it's either the death penalty or letting someone walk around a park unescorted. I'm against the death penalty but I think I might be even more against letting this fuck walk around.

[MaDalton]

every statistic shows that death penalty doesn't prevent anything

besides that I find it pretty uncivilized to lower your laws to the same level - not even speaking of the many falsely accused that were killed by now.

but i find it completely unacceptable to let anyone like that to set a foot outside his cellblock ever again

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Easy words to type and post. But ask the kid's mother to find out how easy a plan that is to execute.


Btw, I wasn't just a student. Unlike you I spent 15 years actually working in the health care field, including much time spent working the phych wards. Newsflash-- not everyone with mental problems are cluelessly unaware of their actions. A lot of faking goes on. Someone can have some low level aberrant thought processes and still be aware enough to run game on everyone, and then fall back on the insanity defense.

All I know is once this guy is deemed fit he'll be free to integrate himself back into society. I'd love to send him your way and have him move in and be your next door neighbor over in the peaceful EU.



One last thing DV --- I'm not sure how "the gun-filled USA" got involved in your rantings, this incident happened in Canada. But on that note I should point out that there are those out there with the opinion that had someone on the bus that day been armed there would have been a better chance of saving the kid. Of course the anti-gun people all have a pile of choice arguments about that as well, as I'm sure you do.

It's interesting to me that this guuy was determined to be schizophrenic, consequently unfit to stand trial yet has responded so well to treatments that he's been cleared to go out on his own

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

every statistic shows that death penalty doesn't prevent anything

Sure it does. It prevents the criminal being put to death from ever killing again.

Perhaps it's not about preventing others from doing it.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

every statistic shows that death penalty doesn't prevent anything

besides that I find it pretty uncivilized to lower your laws to the same level - not even speaking of the many falsely accused that were killed by now.

but i find it completely unacceptable to let anyone like that to set a foot outside his cellblock ever again

if you find that uncivilized, think about the fact we had the death penalty, realized that not having the death penalty means more 1st degree convictions.

these guys don't care about safety or 'protection', they just wanna kill people

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Sure it does. It prevents the criminal being put to death from ever killing again.

Perhaps it's not about preventing others from doing it.

sorry, but this is only valid in case you ever let him out again

and i am absolutely fine with locking them up for life instead

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

if you find that uncivilized, think about the fact we had the death penalty, realized that not having the death penalty means more 1st degree convictions.

these guys don't care about safety or 'protection', they just wanna kill people

i have no idea what you mean

i am talking about someone committing a murder and would prefer they would be locked up for life instead of killing them

that's all i meant

if you are locked up for life, you cannot commit a second murder - maybe besides your cellmates

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i have no idea what you mean

i am talking about someone committing a murder and would prefer they would be locked up for life instead of killing them

that's all i meant

if you are locked up for life, you cannot commit a second murder - maybe besides your cellmates

we had the death penalty before.. this allowed us a detailed view on how juries behave when they have to decide a conviction that would also decide if the person lives or dies

If the jury doesn't have to decide if the person lives or dies, they are more likely to convict on first degree murder.

Thus, making it safer for everyone

[Creatine]

I believe if someone wants to die it's their choice to die. If you're over the age of 21 you should be allowed to make your own choices.

They should have facilities that allow for quick and painless deaths for people who wish it.

I read a story about a guy who got seriously injured and he ended up being a vegetable. His family had to take care of him constantly. The guy wanted to die but his family wouldn't let him.

Shits fucked up.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Because I was a student nurse and came across many people who had mental illness and were not capable of controlling what they did.

Do you feel that someone "not capable of controlling what they did," in your own words, is someone that should also be let out into the public? Or are you only against the death penalty?

In a moment of rage, it could be argued that most people are not capable of controlling what they do. That's part of what rage is.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

we had the death penalty before.. this allowed us a detailed view on how juries behave when they have to decide a conviction that would also decide if the person lives or dies

If the jury doesn't have to decide if the person lives or dies, they are more likely to convict on first degree murder.

Thus, making it safer for everyone

thats a weird logic

actually i prefer places where law is practiced and people dont get judged based on feelings

we don't have juries over here and i am glad about it

[Sly]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I guess if your in the USA you need to have a gun to feel safe. I pity you.

Actually, in the United States we have upgraded. We now carry around bazookas. Great work out really. It's done wonders for our overweight population.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

thats a weird logic

actually i prefer places where law is practiced and people dont get judged based on feelings

Where is that? Never Neverland?

We are humans. It's what we do. Laws are conceived, written, and based around feelings as well.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

thats a weird logic

actually i prefer places where law is practiced and people dont get judged based on feelings

we don't have juries over here and i am glad about it

so rather than a group of peoples feelings, just one person?

however, digression

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

sorry, but this is only valid in case you ever let him out again

and i am absolutely fine with locking them up for life instead

Untrue. Guards can and have been killed, fellow prisoners can be killed. Parole can be gotten which opens the door for repeat offenses, all of which has happened in the past. Rare yes, but the possibility is there nonetheless. The only thing that compltelely negates the possibility of one of these capital case murderers from reoffending with 100% certainty is the death penalty.


And again, for the more simpleminded who may be among us (not you Dalton), I'm just tabling a discussion here. Nowhere have I said that I flat-out support a broad spectrum death penalty. Fact is if the discussion of whether to bring it back here in Canada were ever raised again I would have some definite concerns and some proposals for limitations to suggest at the very least.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so rather than a group of peoples feelings, just one person?

however, digression

usually it's one judge and 2 assistant judges - professionals

not a bunch of hobos you can impress with fiery speeches and a nice tie

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

usually it's one judge and 2 assistant judges - professionals

not a bunch of hobos you can impress with fiery speeches and a nice tie

i suppose judges and assistant judges are immune to fiery speeches and a nice tie

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

we had the death penalty before.. this allowed us a detailed view on how juries behave when they have to decide a conviction that would also decide if the person lives or dies

If the jury doesn't have to decide if the person lives or dies, they are more likely to convict on first degree murder.

Thus, making it safer for everyone

What if the death sentence was removed completely from the jury? As in, they are just there to render a verdict of guilty or not guilty. Then, if the case is one of those special capital cases (like Bernardo, Picton, etc) where there simply is no doubt and the murders are multiple and/or horrendous to the point that society would simply be better off without this person (or persons as the case warrants), the decision of life or death goes to a panel of judges, say. A group who are at least most qualified to make such judgements.

Only the most egregious capital cases would qualify for this.

We all must ask ourselves seriously, is it really worth Canada's time to let guys like Bernardo, Picton, or this Li guy for that matter to continue eating and breathing, reading and watching TV, or the opportunity for possible parole or freedom... and the chance to do more harm to others? Call me crazy but I'm on the fense.

And no, Richard, it's not as simple as "these people (those who are pro-death penalty) just want to kill people". That's about as ridiculous a thing as you've ever posted in fact.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

What if the death sentence was removed completely from the jury? As in, they are just there to render a verdict of guilty or not guilty. Then, if the case is one of those special capital cases (like Bernardo, Picton, etc) where there simply is no doubt and the murders are multiple and/or horrendous to the point that society would simply be better off without this person (or persons as the case warrants), the decision of life or death goes to a panel of judges, say. A group who are at least most qualified to make such judgements.

Only the most egregious capital cases would qualify for this.

We all must ask ourselves seriously, is it really worth Canada's time to let guys like Bernardo, Picton, or this Li guy for that matter to continue eating and breathing, reading and watching TV, or the opportunity for possible parole or freedom... and the chance to do more harm to others? Call me crazy but I'm on the fense.

And no, Richard, it's not as simple as "these people (those who are pro-death penalty) just want to kill people". That's about as ridiculous a thing as you've ever posted in fact.

cheaper keeping them in prison, better to not lower ourselves to the same level we find so repugnant

ridiculous? i am not calling for the murder of citizens without looking at the basic facts of the matter

ergo, not so ridiculous

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

i suppose judges and assistant judges are immune to fiery speeches and a nice tie

this is what i expect from professional judges, yes

but what i cannot expect from 12 randomly picked common people (who are not that randomly picked as we know)

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

this is what i expect from professional judges, yes

but what i cannot expect from 12 randomly picked common people (who are not that randomly picked as we know)

that case in Montana comes to mind.. with the judge giving the rapist 30 days, and lecturing on how the 12 year old had a 'mature sexuality'

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

that case in Montana comes to mind.. with the judge giving the rapist 30 days, and lecturing on how the 12 year old had a 'mature sexuality'

now we're getting childish

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I used to believe in the death penalty. Kill someone, and we will kill you back.

But that's only shortening the punishment. Killing them isn't punishment. Instead, put them into a dark dank cell and force them to eat bread and water for the rest of their lives.

Some do it to become a martyr, any way you look at it, death row shouldn't have anyone longer than a week

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

now we're getting childish

punny

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

ridiculous? i am not calling for the murder of citizens without looking at the basic facts of the matter

No, you're calling for them to be kept alive without looking at the basic facts of the matter.


Seriously, it doesn't have to be "cheaper keeping them in prison". Also, not everyone who is pro death penalty blindly wants it. Most whom I've heard discussing the issue at least wants it as a possibility for those rare cases that might warrant it.

Believe me I've heard all the arguments on both sides. It's never as simple as either try to make it out to be.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

No, you're calling for them to be kept alive without looking at the basic facts of the matter.


Seriously, it doesn't have to be "cheaper keeping them in prison". Also, not everyone who is pro death penalty blindly wants it. Most whom I've heard discussing the issue at least wants it as a possibility for those rare cases that might warrant it.

Believe me I've heard all the arguments on both sides. It's never as simple as either try to make it out to be.

well, with the talk of targeted killings of americans, that would include canadians as well.

so congrats, you got your wish.

and, with the best intentions paving the way to hell, not exactly what was hoped for

[Relentless]

The death penalty does not work. Worse than that, it has resulted in the State killing innocent people and HUNDREDS of people on death row have been exonerated thanks to advances in tech that didn't exist at the time of their crimes (DNA for example). http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/

When we are 100% certain of guilt we can use a permanent penalty. Until then the risk outweighs the gains.Especially when you factor in that there is ZERO deterrent value. Maniacs who eat their dead aren't exactly up on the current legal system's penal system or tremendous at forethought even if they know the penalties.

On the other hand, the prison system is an outright train-wreck. If the expense of this one guy getting a free meal bothers you... take a look at what we spend every year to keep non-violent pot dealers behind bars. The scale of that problem dwarfs the cost of warehousing death row inmates by several orders of magnitude. Also, keep in mind that we are subsidizing the chicken industry, scammy prepaid calling card companies and a huge for-profit leeching system with tax dollars to make this all happen.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Believe me I've heard all the arguments on both sides. It's never as simple as either try to make it out to be.

It's largely the fact that people over simplify things and distill everything into simple "right/wrong" and "good/bad" and "i'm right/you're wrong" personal views and cling to them no matter what... resulting in clearly flawed and incomplete arguments to begin with, which sparks discussion and debate and keeps it alive ;)

btw.. I don't know that the patient wasn't 100% ok to go for an unsupervised activity. I would surmise this decision was made by the head doctors of the facility and a board of specialists that have been monitoring and evaluating his progress. Their big failure in my opinion, was in creating a situation in what should have been obvious to even a child, would quickly become a PR shit storm. He could have been "supervised" and it would have not made the news.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Relentless

The death penalty does not work. Worse than that, it has resulted in the State killing innocent people and HUNDREDS of people on death row have been exonerated thanks to advances in tech that didn't exist at the time of their crimes (DNA for example). http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/

It is because of those advances in tech that many want to retable the discussion.

When we are 100% certain of guilt we can use a permanent penalty.

It is only in such cases that I would be open to the notion of it, and I already mentioned a few. There was zero doubt due to evidence in the cases I mentioned.

To be honest I sort of find anyone who would be opposed to a Paul Bernardo being put to death to be a bit touched in the head and in need of supervision themselves.
Google it if unfamiliar with the name.

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

btw.. I don't know that the patient wasn't 100% ok to go for an unsupervised activity. I would surmise this decision was made by the head doctors of the facility and a board of specialists that have been monitoring and evaluating his progress. Their big failure in my opinion, was in creating a situation in what should have been obvious to even a child, would quickly become a PR shit storm. He could have been "supervised" and it would have not made the news.

At the very least the guy should never be unsupervised again, in any capacity, in my opinion.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by dpapa

If you killed some one you should receive death penalty else it will encourage to do more...

um no, i don't think anyone is saying that here...