Grapesoda

this is interesting, wouldn't you say that the CEO has 1000x's the value of a guy flipping burger?

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...st-food-worker

AmeliaG

Depends if, at that moment, I want a company run or I have my mouth fixed for a burger.

Edit: Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, while the idea of paying fast food workers $15 an hour is infeasible and unfair to middle income people who worked hard to build skills and a career (not to mention inflationary), most top CEO's are grossly overpaid for the value they provide. The former is infeasible because the money is not there and, if automation is cheaper than people, then any decently managed company will have automation, and we will have higher unemployment, not higher wages. I think there are a ton of VP's making six figures (not 7 or 8) who could figure out how to automate burger production or put outsourced remote workers on the drive-thru. So the value received from a $9 mill CEO may just really be poor ROI.

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Nice_Nick

Definately.

signupdamnit

Only because all your life you've been conditioned to see it that way. Working is working. Not to say that I don't think a CEO shouldn't get more but if you go past a certain point it starts to get absurd. Ironically you also start to encourage a certain entitled attitude as people tend to see themselves more as gods and less as humans.

Do the little green pieces of paper you have REALLY make you a better human than your employees?

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AllAboutCams

Why don't they just quit? the CEO probably put a lot more then 1000 times the effort than sum burger flipper.

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I consider people equally valuable as humans, and believe that McDonald's can afford to pay their workers $15/hr, even if that means a few less millions go to their CEO/Execs and shareholders...



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bronco67

Those are the rules set by corporations. Not fair but that's the way it works.

I hate seeing people who do real work make less than guys at the top, but there is something more to the CEO job than actual elbow grease. 1000 times more? That's definitely debatable.

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PR_Glen

You think that would only be a 'few less millions'? You must be really bad at math...

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signupdamnit

One day the CEOs will also be obsolete. That day is when AI technology is fully realized. They won't even need people to program or repair the machines because the machines will be doing that too. Then we will have to seriously re-think some things...

Honestly I do not think most people would prefer full automation in the fast food industry. Sometimes it's good to deal with people. When things are so advanced what is the need of having the business in the first place when presumably you could just have a machine make it for you at home as well?

There is always an excuse or fear to justify paying certain people less while others gain from it though. It's been a common pattern for a long time.

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I didn't mean to make you think that I had actually run the calculations, I was simply making a broader point about income inequality (peek at the videos I posted).



The likely effect of a Mickey D minimum wage increase would be that Big Mac's would cost a little more.

Overall, I would say that executive compensation is somewhat out of whack:



It's good to be the CEO (I'm self-employed)!



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Grapesoda

well most CEO's of large corporations start work about 4am, work until about 10pm, with every 15 minute increment slotted on the schedule... spent almost 20 years in school, very demanding school at that, I was told in master classes they lock the door at exactly the time the class starts, you're late, you're out... then the CEO has to manage 10,000's of employees and departments and divisions, make decisions about future growth and shareholder expectations etc.... even though the very best are still only hitting 40% accuracy in decision making.

that is very different than a guy fucks off all day, grudgingly works a 8 hour shift complaining for more money and then hangs out the rest of the day...

arock10

Shake shack and in and out already pay over $10 an hr

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Grapesoda

would more than double their workforce cost, usually how it works though... guys with no business to run figure giving away someone's else money is a great idea

Grapesoda

yes they do..... small menu and control of supplies really help bring down the cost, however at some point the analogy breaks down... Toyota is cheaper than Mercedes

brassmonkey

people are trying to make fast food a career!!!!

my name is jeda dya i'll be your fries tech 2 day status is golden brown

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Grapesoda

shit, $16 per for that guy

TheSquealer

... and they are privately owned and not franchises... where you can't just insist from corporate offices that franchisees double their labor costs.

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brassmonkey

they dont want you to stay tho

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brassmonkey

http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/mcd/franchising.html know your not talking about mikky D's

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JA$ON

They are worth what someone will pay them

And yes (IMO) If the decisions someone makes are ultimately responsible for Billions in profits, Hiring of thousands of new employees and company expansion they are worth every penny of a few million a year.

When a fry cook's value to the company demands that they make $15 per hour.....they will

tony286

Sorry $15 an hour shouldnt be a skilled wage in this day when I made $11 in a factory in 1984. And do you really think that when automatic is cheaper than min wage they wont be replaced? I just dont get the conservatives that are for socializing pirate business expenses. They pay slave wages, we the tax payer pay for it and they encourage their workers to use gov programs.

tony286

Please decide the welfare people are lazy motherfuckers but the guy who works a job is also a lazy mother fucker.

dyna mo

You're painting a rosy picture of CEOs, I'm not sure it's fair, maybe it is, I wonder because I do know I've read research on Wall Street CEOs and the results are in, they are, overall, anti-social psychopaths, determined via structured testing. They care more about themselves than the company and certainly over an other human(s).

Also, that 20 years of school is really only 2+ ish, after college. It's not like med school. Or even law school. And don't forget- only a small % of MBA graduates graduate with an A average, most graduate with an average average, that's why it's the average and how others get the As.

So most CEOs are of average training and it appears are anti-social psychopaths!

Supz

Fast food workers don't deserve anything. It is not a career. It is a low wage job for high school / college kids. Why am I even commenting. This is the dumbest shit ever.

Robbie

I can't believe you still think that Tony!

Go to McDonalds. Tell me you think the people working there should get $15 an hour? Really?
And the costs of everything goes up (when you raise the minimum wage that high) and meanwhile (thanks to piracy) WE can't raise our prices past what they have been in this industry for almost 20 years.

It used to be people actually had to be able to DO something to make a living.

In my humble opinion...the guy taking my order at McDonald's is worth about $3 an hour. The manager I MIGHT pay $15 an hour...if he was loyal and a hard worker.

Apparently the "liberal" attitude is that people should simply be paid a nice salary because they showed up to work.

I wasn't raised that way.

And IF McDonald's workers are on welfare...guess what Tony? That's the Democrat Party that loves welfare. It's YOUR ideology that created welfare in the first place.

And now people who think the way you do are blaming a company for people BEING on welfare! LOL!

How about this...let's get a govt. that helps business to thrive and bolster the economy instead of trying to figure out new ways to drive them out of the country (taxes, obamacare, and now $15 an hour minimum wage).

These are the exact opposite of things that would stimulate business growth. And it's the reason the "Summer Of Recovery" never happened and "Shovel Ready Jobs" weren't there.

These "ideas" have never worked and never will. Govt. should stay out of the economy as much as possible. It should oversee things only to the point that is necessary. And all this "social engineering" bullshit has no place in the business world.

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SuckOnThis

Did you ever do much research about this piece of shit?



Not exactly a ceo but he is the worst of the worst as far as Wall St sociopaths go and one of the main men behind the whole collapse. I just recently learned my best friend growing up worked side by side with this guy and he said he made Gordon Gecko look like Mother Theresa.

AmeliaG

Exactly. I feel like one of the problems with the $15/hour minimum wage idea is that it would instantly wipe out the gains of companies who pay above minimum and people who have worked hard to be valued at more than minimum.

Shake Shack and In-and-Out have much more pleasant customer service experiences than Mickey D's. I would venture that this is because they pay better and treat their workers better. Raise minimum to $15 and all of these workers being shown appreciation by Shake Shack and In-and-Out are now rock bottom.

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Bryan G

Nothing to do with being lazy. Has to do with saying to yourself "you know what I want to make more money so I'm going to go find a job that pays more"

$15 an hour to work at Mc Donalds is retarded.

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AmeliaG

I don't know what kind of factory you worked at, but I think the average wage for auto factory workers today is $40 (not counting benefits which most receive.) No legislation required (except corporate welfare to the auto industry.)

Minimum wage in 1984 was what $3.25?

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AmeliaG

Most CEOs are not average. Most MBAs are not CEOs and only some CEOs are MBAs. For example, Andrew Conru's Masters is in mechanical engineering and not business and he also earned a PhD.

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Robbie

I think there is more to it than that.

You can pay some slacker all the money in the world and they are STILL a slacker because they have no work ethic.

My guess is that getting hired at In & Out is probably a bit tougher than McDonalds. And if you are a slacker you get your ass fired.

The way it should be.

You instill a sense of work ethic and pride in the workplace and people will respond.

When I first got in this business I started a content company with a partner in the 1990's.
I spent a lot of time learning how to shoot and set up lighting. I did ALL the shooting for the company myself. I recruited all the girls myself. I sold the content myself. I did everything (my partner made the initial financial investment in equipment).

The entire time we had that company (from 1998 to 2002) I never paid myself a single dollar. I worked for free the entire time and made my living off of our TGP's.

I busted my ass. And did it all for free. I was building something. And it led me to where I am today.

THAT is how life is supposed to work. Not having money just handed to you for nothing.

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dyna mo

What does that mean most CEOs are not average?


I didn't say most MBAs are CEOs nor did I say most CEOs have MBAs. I was simply using the time required for a business degree or law degree to show that it's only a couple to a few years more than undergrad work. A PHD in ME, depending on the focus, would be at most 6 years post-grad work.

And I really would not be using Conru as an example of a stellar CEO.

dyna mo

Not specifically but the things I read were centered around the collapse and how his sort were the catalyst behind it.

dyna mo

from CEO.com

most CEOs have a Master's degree and most with a Master's have an MBA.

Seth Manson

Those of you that think that the CEO's higher pay is not justified, are probably the same type of people that dont believe that a top ranking General should be making $237k a year while a newly enlisted Private makes $18k a year.

Whats the difference, they are both soldiers.

arock10

The min wage was over $10 in the 1970s when taking inflation into account

I still find it very amusing that people find workers wanting $15 an hour is nuts. Since the vast majority are, it's like bi partisan at gfy

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AmeliaG

I agree with you 100%, Robbie.

If, as a society, we mandate that $15 per hour is the bottom rung, then where does that put someone who previously was appreciated and more highly rewarded for working harder at their fast food job? Where does that put someone like you who delayed gratification and worked to build something bigger?

I don't mean that Shake Shake and In-and-Out have better customer service because they pay more and pouring more money on people makes them work better and nicer. I mean that Shake Shake and In-and-Out can be more selective in who they hire and the people they hire know they have been selected and are not bottom rung and that higher pay is part of how the companies express that. Make $15 the minimum and the bar is raised to a point where good companies, who pay above minimum for above minimum work now, have much less to offer and hard workers are not rewarded above people who merely managed not to get fired.

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AmeliaG

It says 40% have an MBA.

It says 28% have a graduate degree which is not an MBA.

It says 10% have a JD.

Let's do the math: 28-10 = 18

So 18% have a graduate degree which is not an MBA or JD. I don't know what % of that is PhD level, but presumably not an insignificant number. So that pie chart does not say whether most have a Masters.

You said:

and

Were you not saying that CEOs are average there?

In the United States (which is more educated than much of the world), census figures show 11.57% have an advanced degree, yet your chart shows 68% of CEOs do. Again, the math here is simple.

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Robbie

The minimum wage was $1.45 in 1970 and the average income was $10,000

Now...through our federal govt. printing money from thin air...our dollar is useless. And raising up the minimum wage even further will make the dollar even more useless.

So I see it like this...today's current minimum wage (and only 1.1% of the entire workforce actually makes only minimum wage...98.9% make MORE than that...and THEY are the ones who will suffer) is $7.25

Our 2014 dollar is only worth 6 cents in 1970 dollar power.

Whose fault is that? The companies that are employing people?

Or the govt. that regulates and taxes and then STILL runs up 17 trillion dollars in debt and destroys our monetary system.

I think you are looking at the wrong "villain" here.

But it's not surprising. The media and the govt. are playing us all like fools while they make out like bandits.

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signupdamnit

Even at McDonalds if you are a slacker there are probably 100+ other people who aren't who want your job. Just because someone is only making $8 an hour does not mean they are a bad worker or lazy. I think that perception is partially used to justify the lower wages. But again if they were that bad they wouldn't be working in the first place as the employer is always free to fire them.

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signupdamnit

Some people feel better about themselves by knocking others down and knowing that people are "below" them. We've largely been conditioned to think your wage equals your worth as a human. I think some people think if the low wage McDonalds worker makes $12 or $15 an hour and they themselves make about $40 an hour then that increase lowers their own worth. It's like an insult to them. After all the guy who works 8 hours a day in the grease pit is "lazy" and "stupid" (somehow they know this just from their job and never having met them) while they themselves are superior and a "better person". See the psychological forces at work here?

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Grapesoda

not sure what you're on about

Grapesoda

C students hire the A students .. the guys I know with large business work a min or 80 hrs a week.. big CEO's are slotted all day long, every day for meetings, social commitments etc.

brassmonkey

funny thing is the mba its not even needed! they hire a cabinet of employees to run the company. executives supervisors managers accountants attorneys etc.....

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Grapesoda

look to California for a great example of driving business away, cally just got rid of the fucking Toyota and working hard as hell to drive porn out and the cheer leaders are GFY!

signupdamnit

I think he may be saying they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. You call them lazy whether they work or not. Already people call others lazy because of their job and never having met them state that they believe they should earn $3 an hour.

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Robbie

And yet only 1.1% of the nations work force make "only" minimum wage. 98.9% make MORE.

And those minimum wage jobs are NOT careers. They aren't meant to be a lifetime job. I'm sure that most of us here have had a minimum wage job at one point in time. And then you work your way up. Unless you are incapable OR the economy is so shitty that you can't.

But Pres. Obama "fixed" all that back in 2009 with the "Summer Of Recovery" right? lol
Seriously though...the economy has come back to life. The year is 2014 not 2009.

And again...if you raise the minimum wage you are basically spitting in the face of the 98.9% of people who EARNED their way up past minimum wage.

That's the way I see it. How about you? Did anybody ever just hand you money? Or did you have to earn your way up the ladder?

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dyna mo

Yes, the math is simple, of all the groups, from not having a higher education through a PHD, the largest group of CEOs have an MBA, 40%.

Now since most MBAs graduate with average grades, and they do, then it's fair to say that of the largest group of CEOs (40%), the majority of them have an average level of business education.

If you have something supporting your claim that most CEOs are not average, I'd be happy to check it out.

dyna mo

I don't think I'm disagreeing with the workload, I'm just not certain CEOs as a group, are anything special.


Work hard, reap the rewards, don't have bad luck, there's nothing really special about the formula though.