Obamacare deemed illegal by Federal Appeals

[onwebcam]

Another blow, and they will keep coming.

http://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/10125254D91F8BAC85257D1D004E6176/$file/14-5018-1503850.pdf

[Barry-xlovecam]

Don't break out the champagne or get your panties in a bunch.

The case will be heard by all of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals Judges sitting en blanc.

It is 50/50 the ruling is reversed at that point.

Same thing happened with §2257 having been struck down in the 6th Federal Circuit a few years ago. Wait until the "fat lady sings" before you celebrate or lament ... It ain't over until it's really over.

[2MuchMark]

Not going to read all of that...

..but if you guys lose Obamacare and can't replace it with something better because Boehner buddies want their way, it will be a really sad day for you guys.

[Rochard]

Yet Romneycare is still alive and well.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by **********

Not going to read all of that...

..but if you guys lose Obamacare and can't replace it with something better because Boehner buddies want their way, it will be a really sad day for you guys.

Mark, we didn't have "Obamacare" before (and it still hasn't been fully implemented because the Pres. keeps unilaterally changing the law to suit the political climate).

Guess what? It wasn't a "sad day" for us.

The govt. and the media went on a full out blitz in 2009 to convince us that unless we got "Obamacare" that our prices would continue to rise and that it was hurting the economy unless prices went down.

So we got it.

Prices still went up. Even faster.

So let's see...for over 200 years we did just fine WITHOUT ObamaCare.
But now...with the tiny bit of it that has been implemented...you think it's a catastrophe if it goes away?

Let's take a quick look at the FACTS:
In 2008 14.6 % of the U.S. population was uninsured.
In 2009 that jumped to 16.1%
2010 it went up to 16.4%
By 2012 with ObamaCare it was all the way up to 17.5%
By mid-2013 it went up AGAIN to 18%
In the first quarter of this year 2014 it finally eased back to "only" 15.6%

So before ObamaCare it was 14.6% and prices were lower.
Now it's 15.6% and prices are higher.

Is there NOTHING that gets through to you that it's not a good plan?

[Axeman]

This will eventually end up at the Supreme Court, but I don't think they will rule any differently than the Federal Appeals. The law as written is very black and white.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by Axeman

This will eventually end up at the Supreme Court, but I don't think they will rule any differently than the Federal Appeals. The law as written is very black and white.

2 things about this.

The ruling by the DC Court of Appeals was a 2-1 ruling with the 2 judges being republicans.

And also today the 4th Circuit of Appeals ruled unanimously in favor of the law. So apparently it is not black and white.

[arock10]

Yea this sucks. 87% of people get subsidies. So basically the law will still be in effect just everyone using a federal exchange will get screwed. Well except for the people who make too much.

Going to go from a great deal for a lot of people (except gfy republicans) to forced full price insurance

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Yet Romneycare is still alive and well.

cannot begin to tell you how nice it is to see this connection

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by arock10

Yea this sucks. 87% of people get subsidies. So basically the law will still be in effect just everyone using a federal exchange will get screwed. Well except for the people who make too much.

Going to go from a great deal for a lot of people (except gfy republicans) to forced full price insurance

Nothing changes for now. It will have to be decided by the Supreme Court.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Mark, we didn't have "Obamacare" before (and it still hasn't been fully implemented because the Pres. keeps unilaterally changing the law to suit the political climate).

Guess what? It wasn't a "sad day" for us.

The govt. and the media went on a full out blitz in 2009 to convince us that unless we got "Obamacare" that our prices would continue to rise and that it was hurting the economy unless prices went down.

So we got it.

Prices still went up. Even faster.

So let's see...for over 200 years we did just fine WITHOUT ObamaCare.
But now...with the tiny bit of it that has been implemented...you think it's a catastrophe if it goes away?

Let's take a quick look at the FACTS:
In 2008 14.6 % of the U.S. population was uninsured.
In 2009 that jumped to 16.1%
2010 it went up to 16.4%
By 2012 with ObamaCare it was all the way up to 17.5%
By mid-2013 it went up AGAIN to 18%
In the first quarter of this year 2014 it finally eased back to "only" 15.6%

So before ObamaCare it was 14.6% and prices were lower.
Now it's 15.6% and prices are higher.

Is there NOTHING that gets through to you that it's not a good plan?

What's your definition of "just fine"? Maybe you did just fine, but there's a lot of people who didn't. That's the problem with you conservatives....you look at everything through the prism of "whatever affects me".

[arock10]

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis

Nothing changes for now. It will have to be decided by the Supreme Court.

Oh I realize this, just saying IF. I read three more cases with the same arguments are going through the courts now too

[arock10]

Originally Posted by bronco67

What's your definition of "just fine"? Maybe you did just fine, but there's a lot of people who didn't. That's the problem with you conservatives....you look at everything through the prism of "whatever affects me".

Yeah exactly

[Barry-xlovecam]

It's already 50/50 ...

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) ? A federal appeals court in Virginia has upheld tax subsidies for low- and middle-income people who buy insurance under the Obama administration's health care reform law.

A three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday unanimously rejected a claim that the law provides the subsidies only to people who buy policies through state-run exchanges. The court backed an Internal Revenue Service regulation that makes the subsidies available regardless of whether policies are purchased through state exchanges or one established by the federal government.

Thirty-six states are served by the federal insurance marketplace.

The decision conflicts with another one issued Tuesday by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. That court ruled 2-1 that the subsidies are available only through state exchanges.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/art...es-5638553.php

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by bronco67

What's your definition of "just fine"? Maybe you did just fine, but there's a lot of people who didn't. That's the problem with you conservatives....you look at everything through the prism of "whatever affects me".

I'm not a "conservative"...unless conservatives are suddenly pro-choice, anti-'drug war', anti-war, and are all swingers. lol

As for "just fine"...yeah, up until the early 1990's most people could actually afford to go to the doctor and even have hospital stays and pay out of pocket (the way you are supposed to). No insurance needed.

That's the problem with you "guys who label others" people...you don't look at what happened.
The govt. got involved in "health care" with HMO's back in the 1980's. Once that happened...the gravy train was ON!
Now the hospitals charge people $20 for a tylenol and $50 for the paper dixie cup to drink water to swallow it with.

THAT is what needs to be addressed.

And AGAIN....the fucking facts speak for themselves.

How in the fuck can you see prices are higher and less people are insured and think that is "good"?

The sheer insanity of that is outrageous.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by arock10

Yeah exactly

Did you not look at the facts and figures? What the fuck????

Even when reality slaps you guys in the face you STILL slavishly defend something that is not working.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Mark, we didn't have "Obamacare" before (and it still hasn't been fully implemented because the Pres. keeps unilaterally changing the law to suit the political climate).

Guess what? It wasn't a "sad day" for us.

The govt. and the media went on a full out blitz in 2009 to convince us that unless we got "Obamacare" that our prices would continue to rise and that it was hurting the economy unless prices went down.

So we got it.

Prices still went up. Even faster.

So let's see...for over 200 years we did just fine WITHOUT ObamaCare.
But now...with the tiny bit of it that has been implemented...you think it's a catastrophe if it goes away?

Let's take a quick look at the FACTS:
In 2008 14.6 % of the U.S. population was uninsured.
In 2009 that jumped to 16.1%
2010 it went up to 16.4%
By 2012 with ObamaCare it was all the way up to 17.5%
By mid-2013 it went up AGAIN to 18%
In the first quarter of this year 2014 it finally eased back to "only" 15.6%

So before ObamaCare it was 14.6% and prices were lower.
Now it's 15.6% and prices are higher.

Is there NOTHING that gets through to you that it's not a good plan?

Jesus quit drinking the I hate Obama koolaide, you aren't even rational..yes Obamacare had a ruff roll out, but it's working now and 99% of these changes you blame Obama for are because of things the right did.

[Robbie]

no, it's not working. There is no "koolaid" in what I am saying.

There are now LESS people insured and insurance costs more. Fuck...what does it take to get you guys to open your eyes?

Talk about drinking kool-aid...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

you aren't even rational

Wow. I don't know what to say. I show you stats that show less people insured. The costs are now higher (not less like the Pres. promised).

And you say I am not rational.

Wow.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by crockett

Jesus quit drinking the I hate Obama koolaide, you aren't even rational..yes Obamacare had a ruff roll out, but it's working now and 99% of these changes you blame Obama for are because of things the right did.

Bullshit

[wehateporn]

Let's hope they get the Obamacare scam banned once and for all

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Did you not look at the facts and figures? What the fuck????

Even when reality slaps you guys in the face you STILL slavishly defend something that is not working.

a graph with no links to figure out how this poll was done isn't being 'slapped in the face with reality'

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

a graph with no links to figure out how this poll was done isn't being 'slapped in the face with reality'

It's GALLUP in case you didn't look closely.

Why don't YOU google up "how many people uninsured in the U.S" and see for yourself since you are jumping on the "Crockett Science" bandwagon.

Or else stay out of the conversation if you are going to be foolish. Crockett and Mark Prince already have "foolish" covered here. lol

[arock10]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Let's hope they get the Obamacare scam banned once and for all

Yea let's go back to being uninsured, going bankrupt and dying instead. That plan worked much better

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by bronco67

What's your definition of "just fine"? Maybe you did just fine, but there's a lot of people who didn't. That's the problem with you conservatives....you look at everything through the prism of "whatever affects me".

LOL, you're funny, make the conservatives pay more so the liberals can pay less, is that what you are trying to say?

You being a liberal, you're saying fuck the conservatives so I can get cheaper insurance, right? What a hypocrite!

End result, the numbers say it's not working as advertised or promised.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by arock10

Yea let's go back to being uninsured, going bankrupt and dying instead. That plan worked much better

There needs to be a pot with all the money in, no insurance companies eating into that, this should not be about profit

[GregE]

Originally Posted by arock10

Yea this sucks. 87% of people get subsidies. So basically the law will still be in effect just everyone using a federal exchange will get screwed. Well except for the people who make too much.

Going to go from a great deal for a lot of people (except gfy republicans) to forced full price insurance

Actually, as I understand it, those who currently qualify for subsidy's will not be required to purchase health insurance should this ruling stand. It's the same principle which already applies to those who qualify for medicaid under ACA, but live in states that have opted out of such.

Bottom line: millions more without health insurance and lots of new job openings for casket makers, morticians and gravediggers.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Robbie

It's GALLUP in case you didn't look closely.

Why don't YOU google up "how many people uninsured in the U.S" and see for yourself since you are jumping on the "Crockett Science" bandwagon.

Or else stay out of the conversation if you are going to be foolish. Crockett and Mark Prince already have "foolish" covered here. lol

no, i didn't. i saw some image with no link information on how the study is done, while you were typing in capitals about reality.

tell me, robbie, is one gallup poll with no further information 'reality' for you

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by arock10

Yea let's go back to being uninsured, going bankrupt and dying instead. That plan worked much better

arock10, we have less people insured NOW than we did before ObamaCare. And insurance rates have risen even faster, not dropped as the Pres. promised in his pitch to try and "sell" it to the American people.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

tell me, robbie, is one gallup poll with no further information 'reality' for you

No Richard, the most prestigious polling company in the world is just total bullshit. You're right. What was I thinking? I'll just be like you and stick to "Crockett Science"

[Robbie]

One thing is for sure...The Supreme Court has already ruled that ObamaCare is a "TAX". And that Congress has the constitutional right to levy taxes.

So I don't see how some other court can override that decision. ObamaCare is here to stay until a new Pres. and Congress nullify it.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Robbie

No Richard, the most prestigious polling company in the world is just total bullshit. You're right. What was I thinking? I'll just be like you and stick to "Crockett Science"

who owns that most prestigious polling company in the world, may i ask?

democratic? republican? if this does get shifted to being entirely to the benefit of corporations in the states.. would Gallup, the "robbie proclaimed most prestigious polling company in the world', have any connections to the windfall that would occur?

now, sir, we're talking reality.

[Robbie]

Richard, you're looking like a fool if you are questioning the Gallup Poll. It's THE poll that is accepted by all parties as the most reliable.
Instead of hijacking this thread with stupidity...just please use Google for yourself.

It's real easy. I know you can do it man! lol

[_Richard_]

ill take your word for it.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

ill take your word for it.

Come on! Google it for yourself. It's easy.

[_Richard_]

yea, i didn't

In July 2013, the United States Department of Justice announced that Gallup had agreed to pay $10.5 million to settle allegations that it violated the False Claims Act and the Procurement Integrity Act for conduct involving several of its federal government contracts and subcontracts

snort

[Robbie]

Dude, if you really believe the Gallup Poll is fake...then I don't know what to say to you.

JUST GOOGLE UP HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE US ARE UNINSURED FOR YOURSELF. Find as many stats as you want. They will all show you that more are uninsured now than before.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

[_Richard_]

i never said anything about it being fake. i stated that posting an image of a poll with out parameters and calling it reality.. isn't.

now, tell me how you managed to write out a full sentence in capital letters

im fucking impressed.

[Robbie]

I don't know why you are being an asshole...but Gallup is known as THE polling company.

The fact you didn't even realize that says something to me about your knowledge of polling.

And again...google up that sentence that was in caps. it was in caps because if we were face to face I'd be screaming it at you in frustration. lol

[_Richard_]

i am not. i stated an opinion that the one poll image with no further information isn't being 'smacked in the face with' reality.

hope all is well with you.

[Robbie]

Dude...again...Gallup is the recognized leader in polling. It says "gallup" right on the image.

I have zero reasons to lie or go looking for bullshit stats that aren't factual.

That's why I said...please Google it for yourself. That's what everyone should do. It takes just a second of your time to confirm what I'm saying.

Instead you started googling to find out if the U.S. Justice Dept has ever went after Gallup. And I guess they have. I didn't know that. But I don't see how it could have any bearing on the facts in this case.

Just like the Justice Dept. going after Gibson guitars had no bearing on the fact that they make great guitars.
Or the Justice Dept. going after Martha Stewart, etc.

The U.S. Justice Dept. goes after a lot of people and companies. I have no idea what Gallup did to piss them off. But obviously it was enough to just hand them some money and it all went away. That's "justice" in the U.S.A. these days. lol

[bhutocracy]

Cool, onwards to the public option or single payer!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

Cool, onwards to the public option or single payer!

What is the "public option"?

EDIT: Okay, I took my own advice and looked it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_...surance_option

Apparently this is what Pres. Obama actually campaigned on according to what I read there...and then backed off on it in favor of ObamaCare when he actually became President.

It was basically a govt. run insurance agency that would compete with private run insurance agencies.

And of course...just like the "single pay" (income tax paying for it)...there was no way in hell that the giant Insurance companies were ever gonna let that pass.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Robbie

What is the "public option"?

When you get sick you run out into the public and yell "Help! Help! I'm sick I need help!" Hopefully you get lucky and a doctor stops, helps you and sends you a bill. If not....:D

[Axeman]

Robbie why do you even bother with the likes of Richard, **********, Crockett or Arock??? You might as well just go talk to a brick wall for 15 minutes.

You definitely have a higher patience level than I do!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Axeman

Robbie why do you even bother with the likes of Richard, **********, Crockett or Arock??? You might as well just go talk to a brick wall for 15 minutes.

You definitely have a higher patience level than I do!

They are good people with good intentions. So am I. We just disagree on how to get there.

My granny always used to say: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

As I got older I began to understand exactly what she meant.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Robbie

no, it's not working. There is no "koolaid" in what I am saying.

There are now LESS people insured and insurance costs more. Fuck...what does it take to get you guys to open your eyes?

Talk about drinking kool-aid...

Bullshit, since Obamacare rolled out 5.4 million NEW people were insured and that was a number from a few months ago. You just lie and make shit up, you ignore actual facts and get this shit from your I hate Obamacasts. Everyone knows there is more people insured now than ever in the history of this country. That is cold hard fact.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by crockett

Bullshit, since Obamacare rolled out 5.4 million NEW people were insured and that was a number from a few months ago. You just lie and make shit up, you ignore actual facts and get this shit from your I hate Obamacasts. Everyone knows there is more people insured now than ever in the history of this country. That is cold hard fact.

I'm not lying or "making shit up".

The stats show different. The total number of people in the United States who are insured is LESS than it was before ObamaCare.

I don't know how to make you open your eyes and see. Just use google for yourself.

[Robbie]

Here ya go Crockett...scroll down to the table near the bottom of the page. The top line shows the entire U.S. statistics starting in 1999 and going up to 2012.

Then after you see that with your own eyes...come back and tell me I'm lying and making stuff up...(I would just post the damn thing here for you, but Richard wouldn't believe it then)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_..._United_States

[kane]

To be 100% fair, when you look at the numbers you can see that the biggest spike in those with no insurance came at the same time the recession hit. When all those people lost their jobs they lost their insurance with it.

The numbers are slowly starting to creep back down as more people start to find jobs, but many of those jobs are part time or they are lower paying jobs that don't come with insurance so the number has stayed somewhat high.

Has Obamacare helped bring the numbers down some? I don't doubt that it has, but I don't know how much more it will help. Not until the economy really recovers and there are more decent paying jobs will the numbers come back down to where they once were or perhaps lower.