WikiLeaks: Ukraine using passenger jets as human shields

[evy97]

Rebels complained back in June that #Ukraine was using passenger jets as human shields

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/492303929418719233



It's quite obvious why Ukraine refuses to hand over the recording of control-tower-to-pilot conversations to the international experts.

[dyna mo]

actual, real news:

The flight data and cockpit voice recorders from Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 safely arrived at a UK laboratory on Wednesday morning and investigators have already begun to pore through their data.

So far, investigators say, so good.

Officials who examined the Cockpit Voice Recorder say it "was damaged but the memory module was intact."

They report seeing no evidence of manipulation, according to the Dutch. Its data, they say, was successfully downloaded and contains "valid data" from the flight's cockpit.

[CAHEK]

I will be not surprised if Ukrainian Fighter Jet was hiding above Malaysia Airlines Flight 17

[Sly]

Hamas regularly uses human shields and the anti-West rejoices. Now Ukraine may use human shields and the anti-West cries.

With that said, I do not support the use of human shields by any party and the party that uses human shields is as guilty, if not more guilty, than the party attacking them. It's despicable, really, regardless of who is doing it.

[seeandsee]

Originally Posted by Sly

Hamas regularly uses human shields and the anti-West rejoices.

Can you point me to antiwest rejoices of using human shields?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

They report seeing no evidence of manipulation, according to the Dutch. Its data, they say, was successfully downloaded and contains "valid data" from the flight's cockpit.

Yes that's the actual news. But another actual news is that video published on Jun 18, 2014 where a Slavyansk militia girl says that the Ukrainian army uses civilians flights as a shield for their bombers.

Do you remember there was an Ukrainian Su-25 jet near the Flight MH17 before the catastrophe? Man, the Nazi guys play a very dirty game...

[evy97]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

actual, real news:

That's okay, those black boxes.

But why Ukrainian authorities have refused to release transcripts of air traffic control conversations with pilots?

Investigators must insist they have acces to Kiev's Air Traffic Control before black box date is shared. But it did not happen.

Maybe Kiev needs to know what the Cockpit Voice Recorder and the Flight Data Recorder holds in order to ensure their "manipulated" Air Traffic Control data reflects information contained whitin these black boxes.

“According to reports that emerge, Ukrainian authorities are conducting certain covert activities involving data storage equipment and employees of Ukrainian air traffic control services, both civilian and military, without notifying international organizations"

[bronco67]

Don't make the big mistake of believing anything a Russian says. Especially one wearing a ponytail and carrying around an ak47 everywhere.

and their flag looks like a US confederacy flag...that should tell you something about these "rebels", who are basically rebelling against what? The fact that they're Russians living in Ukraine? They're redneck proxy fighters of Putin, who wants to absorb Ukraine. Instead of doing it directly, he'll do it slowly over time by supporting these thugs. It's a very Russian thing to think something is surreptitious and hidden, when it's unbelievably transparent to anyone with half a brain.

they'll put out this propaganda and lucky for them, most idiots will believe it.

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Yes that's the actual news. But another actual news is that video published on Jun 18, 2014 where a Slavyansk militia girl says that the Ukrainian army uses civilians flights as a shield for their bombers.

Do you remember there was an Ukrainian Su-25 jet near the Flight MH17 before the catastrophe? Man, the Nazi guys play a very dirty game...

Do you have a link to that image of Russian radar showing the SU-25 next to MH17 , cant find it. tnx

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by evy97

That's okay, those black boxes.

But why Ukrainian authorities have refused to release transcripts of air traffic control conversations with pilots?

Investigators must insist they have acces to Kiev's Air Traffic Control before black box date is shared. But it did not happen.

Maybe Kiev needs to know what the Cockpit Voice Recorder and the Flight Data Recorder holds in order to ensure their "manipulated" Air Traffic Control data reflects information contained whitin these black boxes.

They Handle the conversations to the dutch investigation team, and those conversations are in UK together with black boxes

[aka123]

Originally Posted by evy97

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/492303929418719233

It's quite obvious why Ukraine refuses to hand over the recording of control-tower-to-pilot conversations to the international experts.

Seriously, use some common sense. What would be the purpose of this in the first place? Fulfilling some combat mission with fighter while lurking behind passenger plane at 10 km. Sure.. Some recoinnaissance maybe, with luck.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Dmcontent

Do you have a link to that image of Russian radar showing the SU-25 next to MH17 , cant find it.

Banned in Google?

The image (as seen in the presentation note the video blow) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:



Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.



Details:

[evy97]

Originally Posted by Dmcontent

They Handle the conversations to the dutch investigation team, and those conversations are in UK together with black boxes

link?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Banned in Google?

The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:



Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.



Details:

I've noticed you use RT as a valid news source when it suits your goals and discount it as non-credible when it does not.

simple observation.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by evy97

That's okay, those black boxes.

But why Ukrainian authorities have refused to release transcripts of air traffic control conversations with pilots?

Investigators must insist they have acces to Kiev's Air Traffic Control before black box date is shared. But it did not happen.

Maybe Kiev needs to know what the Cockpit Voice Recorder and the Flight Data Recorder holds in order to ensure their "manipulated" Air Traffic Control data reflects information contained whitin these black boxes.

I couldn't give a shit about that, especially since it's bullshit.

the simple fact is all that is recorded via the cockpit roecorders and being investigated.

Ukraine is fighting a war, they are making moves and decisions based on war, not based on an airplane.

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Banned in Google?

The image (as seen in the presentation note the video blow) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:



Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.



Details:

Please check altitude of SU-25 airplane on those radar caps , what does it say?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I've noticed you use RT as a valid news source when it suits your goals and discount it as non-credible when it does not.

It's the official report of Russian DOD. Doesn't matter you posted it to youtube - RT, CNN or Donald Duck. The guy asked for the "image of Russian radar showing the SU-25 next to MH17" and he's got it. What's the problem now? If you don't believe to Russian sources then don't ask for the "image of Russian radar showing the SU-25 next to MH17". That's a very simple and clear thing, even for an idiot

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Dmcontent

Please check altitude of SU-25 airplane on those radar caps , what does it say?

10000 meters. The same attitude the MH17 was shot down. So what?

[just a punk]

Spanish source: http://www.wantinews.com/news-867438...lose-MH17.html

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

10000 meters. The same attitude the MH17 was shot down. So what?

Now take a look at the specs of SU-25 from the manufacturer

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/


Don´t you think that data is some sort of fake? SU-25 can fly max 7 000 meters when whithout any weapons or 5 000 meters with weapons.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by Dmcontent

Now take a look at the specs of SU-25 from the manufacturer

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/


Don´t you think that data is some sort of fake? SU-25 can fly max 7 000 meters when whithout any weapons or 5 000 meters with weapons.

LOL. Service ceiling 7 km. It can't even fly at 10 km without dropping down.

[_Richard_]

'Update - It's been pointed out that the Su-25 can briefly fly higher than 7km because while its service ceiling is 7km it can surge to higher than this, perhaps even 10km.'

[beerptrol]

Originally Posted by CAHEK

I will be not surprised if Ukrainian Fighter Jet was hiding above Malaysia Airlines Flight 17

I'm guessing you wouldn't be surprised if it was Santa Claus and his reindeer hiding above the flight while on his way to get you your cheap counterfeit meds

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

It's the official report of Russian DOD. Doesn't matter you posted it to youtube - RT, CNN or Donald Duck. The guy asked for the "image of Russian radar showing the SU-25 next to MH17" and he's got it. What's the problem now? If you don't believe to Russian sources then don't ask for the "image of Russian radar showing the SU-25 next to MH17". That's a very simple and clear thing, even for an idiot

nevertheless, you use RT when it suits you and discount it when it does not.

simple observation.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

'Update - It's been pointed out that the Su-25 can briefly fly higher than 7km because while its service ceiling is 7km it can surge to higher than this, perhaps even 10km.'

Kinda hard. It could "shoot itself up", over the service ceiling (without weapons), but since the air is too thin for that aircraft, it would just start to spin, etc. after this "shoot". What would be the point of this? And I am pretty sure it can't shoot itself kilometres worth as it's not some spacerocket and the aircraft would lose it's controllability.

[evy97]

Originally Posted by Dmcontent

Now take a look at the specs of SU-25 from the manufacturer

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/


Don´t you think that data is some sort of fake? SU-25 can fly max 7 000 meters when whithout any weapons or 5 000 meters with weapons.

?A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it?s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,? said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia?s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
?[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,? he stated.
?The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,? he added. ?It?s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.?

[xpimp]

Originally Posted by evy97

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/492303929418719233



It's quite obvious why Ukraine refuses to hand over the recording of control-tower-to-pilot conversations to the international experts.

i would do her

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by aka123

Kinda hard. It could "shoot itself up", over the service ceiling, but since the air is too thin for that aircraft, it would just start to spin, etc. after this "shoot". What would be the point of this? And I am pretty sure it can't shoot itself kilometres worth as it's not some spacerocket and the aircraft would lose it's controllability.

something to do with 'estimated numbers' on the basis of military secrecy? also, if this really did come from a plane, which i highly doubt, the cockpit recorders would lay that out very quickly.

I don't really think it had to be at 10k meters for very long, or was that much.. they just needed to make it seem like they were escorting in the general vicinity to make the plane look like a military target

[dyna mo]

the Russian government tried to edit Wikipedia to fit its convoluted MH17 shootdown story.

In fact, one reason the SU-25 is a poor air-intercept jet is that it flies much lower than most fighter jets. According to Sukhoi, the manufacturer, its service ceiling is 7 kilometers, about 23,000 feet.

But that's not what the Russian general said! He said the SU-25 flies up to 10 kilometers high, or about 33,000 feet?as luck would have it, almost exactly the altitude at which MH17 was flying when it was shot down.

How to account for the difference in facts? By covering it up, apparently. Interpreter Magazine, which is funded by a nonprofit critical of the Putin administration, confirmed that after the press conference, edits were made to the SU-25's Russian Wikipedia page?changing its maximum altitude to 10 kilometers, up from 7:



So who did the editing? Well for that particular edit, here's where the IP address of the editor leads:



http://gawker.com/did-russian-offici...gus-1609071757

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by evy97

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.
“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.
“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

SU-25 can´t fly that high and do not have an active radar system so it will hardly hit anything moving fast so forget about a commercial jet flying at 950 Km/h. SU-25 is a ground attack airplane not an air to air fighter.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Dmcontent

SU-25 can fly max 7 000 metersith weapons.

That's not max ceiling but service one. I have no idea which is the max one, especially because there are several modifications of Su-25.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

nevertheless, you use RT when it suits you and discount it when it does not

I use ANY images that showed on on Google. If there was written CNN or Fox News, I'd also post them here. Don't see any problem with that.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

http://gawker.com/did-russian-offici...gus-1609071757

LOL, I see Putin sitting at the computer and editing Wikipedia

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

I use ANY images that showed on on Google. If there was written CNN or Fox News, I'd also post them here. Don't see any problem with that.

After finding the story on the kremlin changing the wiki page, I can understand why you used RT to back it all up.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

LOL, I see Putin sitting at the computer and editing Wikipedia

are things really that bad in russia that kremlin only has 1 computer and it is putin's?

wow, I knew y'alls economy is far behind but Ididn't realize that far!

[_Richard_]

http://books.google.ca/books?id=_Ryb...eiling&f=false

shows three variants, one having a service ceiling of 10km

next

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

http://books.google.ca/books?id=_Ryb...eiling&f=false

shows three variants, one having a service ceiling of 10km

next

You mean the SU-39?

[MaDalton]

not saying that others don't do it - but:

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/0...kipedia-edits/

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Dmcontent

You mean the SU-39?

the linked book is just about the SU25.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

http://books.google.ca/books?id=_Ryb...eiling&f=false

shows three variants, one having a service ceiling of 10km

next

yes - that version was built 12 times (out of a total of 900 or so)

so let me know if it was one of those 12...

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

the linked book is just about the SU25.

That´s the SU-39 previous SU-25TM and that version only Russia has.

Do you know that SU-39 can fly on diesel if it needs too in case there is no kerosene around.

[Mediamix]

There are some really ignorant people on this board.. Holy fuck.

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

yes - that version was built 12 times (out of a total of 900 or so)

so let me know if it was one of those 12...

That´s correct Sir wonderful knowledge on aviation

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

not saying that others don't do it - but:

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/0...kipedia-edits/

maybe putin's sad because he has to spend so much time doing those edits himself on the one kremlin computer!

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

are things really that bad in russia that kremlin only has 1 computer and it is putin's?

FYI: Russian government has never been located in Kremlin. It's located here:



Kremlin is a historical object (you can visit it as a tourist). Also it's a place where Russian president works

Do you really think that some of Putin's team is sitting in Kremlin and trying to edit Wikipedia? Seriously?

[evy97]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

not saying that others don't do it - but:

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/0...kipedia-edits/

https://twitter.com/congressedits

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

http://books.google.ca/books?id=_Ryb...eiling&f=false

shows three variants, one having a service ceiling of 10km

next

Exactly. As I said above, there is few different modifications of Su-25 and that's about the service ceiling which is not the maximum one. There are many war experts on GFY who knows everything. Personally I have no idea which exactly max ceiling every existing modification of Su-25 has.

This is GFY

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

yes - that version was built 12 times (out of a total of 900 or so)

so let me know if it was one of those 12...

this started with no jets at all.. now there is jets, but they don't fly that high.. now they will fly that high, only briefly, and finally, there is different variants that have no problem flying that high.

i am not sure how customized these planes are.. do you have further info on that?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

wow, I knew y'alls economy is far behind but Ididn't realize that far

Sure. And they even have no idea what VPN and Tor are when it comes to altering of Wikipedia

[Dmcontent]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

this started with no jets at all.. now there is jets, but they don't fly that high.. now they will fly that high, only briefly, and finally, there is different variants that have no problem flying that high.

i am not sure how customized these planes are.. do you have further info on that?

I do and already explained you above.