Putin violated the Nuclear Arms Treaty

[theking]

...that President Reagan and Gorbachev agreed to and it is being reported that this is not the first time. The President called him out on it a few days ago...but I have not seen any more reports about it since. The President made a speech about additional sanctions being imposed over Putin's continued interference in the Ukraine but in the speech did not even mention the violation of the Nuclear Arms Treaty,

Does anyone have additional info?

[Cherry7]

Any American politicians been to the Ukraine? Why?

[theking]

Originally Posted by Cherry7

Any American politicians been to the Ukraine? Why?

Yes...the Secretary of State...to see how the U.S. might help. What does your question have to do with my post?

[Rochard]

If Russia did violate such a treaty, wouldn't that be HUGE?

Wouldn't that pretty much scrap ALL arms treaties we have ever signed with them?

[theking]

Originally Posted by Rochard

If Russia did violate such a treaty, wouldn't that be HUGE?

Wouldn't that pretty much scrap ALL arms treaties we have ever signed with them?

Yes it is huge and apparently they have been in violation since 2008 and there has been multiple tests of the missiles over the years. It will be interesting to see what the President ultimately decides to do about it...particularly if they begin deploying the missiles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/wo...of-treaty.html

[theking]

The head of the Joint Chiefs has stated that the military is taking old cold war plans off the shelve...and taking a new look at them. I had thought that it was because of the Ukraine business...but the violation of the Nuclear Arms Treaty puts a new light on what he said.

[crockett]

Russia has violated pretty much every treaty they sign.. This is just one of the rare times they get called out on it.

[Seth Manson]

[sandman!]

i would not be surprised if most of the treaty's Gorbachev signed get thrown out.

[Cherry7]

Originally Posted by theking

Yes...the Secretary of State...to see how the U.S. might help. What does your question have to do with my post?

about additional sanctions being imposed over Putin's continued interference in the Ukraine

I see according to you when the US goes to a country it is to help

but Putin interferes ...


Not an objective presentation.

[EddyTheDog]

It's been going on for years - It's another nail in Putin's coffin, I assume that's why it's being bought to our attention now...

[pornmasta]

"I like the smell of cesium 137 in the morning"

[theking]

Originally Posted by Cherry7

about additional sanctions being imposed over Putin's continued interference in the Ukraine

I see according to you when the US goes to a country it is to help

but Putin interferes ...


Not an objective presentation.

The government of Ukraine invited the Secretary of State to come to the Ukraine...Putin was/is not invited. Take it for what its worth...comrade.

[seeandsee]

lol you really think that is for real?

they make new nucler weapon all the time

[editeur]

Yeah, that has been well known for several years. The treaty allows testing naval and air missiles but forbids ground-based short and mid-range missiles. Russia tests naval missiles on land as it doesn't have enough money to do proper naval test, at least that's what was informally conveyed to USA before. It was winked at when relations were ok, but now its another leverage.

Technically speaking, USA drones can be classified as mid-range cruise missile too, if one has enogh imagination and desire. So these accusations about the threaty will lead to nowhere.

[nico-t]

it doesn't get attention, because the US doesn't want it to have attention. So the media doesn't go in 'attack them!!!' mode like they did with iraq. Because a war with a worthy enemy isn't profitable.

[Barry-xlovecam]

And the USA/NATO will do what?

Any tit for tat (quid pro quo) will be a lose-lose proposition.
Stricter sanctions imposed will just create more hostility.
More rhetoric on both sides will just exacerbate and inflame tensions.
What does this have to do with NATO plans to build missile bases in Poland?

[theking]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

And the USA/NATO will do what?

Any tit for tat (quid pro quo) will be a lose-lose proposition.
Stricter sanctions imposed will just create more hostility.
More rhetoric on both sides will just exacerbate and inflame tensions.
What does this have to do with NATO plans to build missile bases in Poland?

Are you talking about a missile defense system (anti missile missiles) being built in Poland?

[Cherry7]

Originally Posted by theking

The government of Ukraine invited the Secretary of State to come to the Ukraine...Putin was/is not invited. Take it for what its worth...comrade.

I am sure you remember a lot of American's were supporting the opposition and helping overthrow the elected government.

I have been on many demonstrations in the UK, never have any foreign politicians come to speak to us to help us end poverty, racism, homelessness and foreign wars.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by theking

Are you talking about a missile defense system (anti missile missiles) being built in Poland?

Their (missile defense system (anti missile missiles)) deployment is post date 5+ years of these tests in violation of treaties. The Russian tested new cruise missiles with a 500 to 5000 (mi/km) range. The missiles tested were for the European theatre of operations I am supposing.

So, it seems rather convenient that this revelation is present post facto now when economic sanctions are the call of the day.

Russia first began testing the cruise missiles as early as 2008, according to American officials, and the Obama administration concluded by the end of 2011 that they were a compliance concern.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/29/wo...eaty.html?_r=0

So, why just now?

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Their (missile defense system (anti missile missiles)) deployment is post date 5+ years of these tests in violation of treaties. The Russian tested new cruise missiles with a 500 to 5000 (mi/km) range. The missiles tested were for the European theatre of operations I am supposing.

So, it seems rather convenient that this revelation is present post facto now when economic sanctions are the call of the day.



So, why just now?

obvious reasons of course

there was some rumours a month or so ago, about missile capability being moved into the region.. only way it was 'confirmed' was the russians immediately sent all the troops back to the border, and articles surfaced about Perimeter.. one of which detailing how much is spent on it by the director. odd stuff.

[WDF]

Originally Posted by Cherry7

I am sure you remember a lot of American's were supporting the opposition and helping overthrow the elected government.

Originally Posted by Cherry7

I have been on many demonstrations in the UK, never have any foreign politicians come to speak to us to help us end poverty, racism, homelessness and foreign wars.

I believe there is a flaw in your rationalization above. US politician do not address UK protestors in the UK.

If you are waiting for the US to come end your poverty, homelessness, racism, and foreign wars you need to stand in line behind the citizens of the US.

What you are asking for sounds a lot like communism to me. Perhaps a communist country would be better suited to your needs/wants.

I fail to see how you being underpaid or broke and homeless is a US politicians or citizens problem. Racism exists every where, deal with it or move where it does not effect you. There will always be war somewhere on this planet.

Ask your friend "Colonel Slanders" he can answer all your questions about the US, he is an expert.

[Cherry7]

Originally Posted by WDF

I believe there is a flaw in your rationalization above. US politician do not address UK protestors in the UK.

If you are waiting for the US to come end your poverty, homelessness, racism, and foreign wars you need to stand in line behind the citizens of the US.

What you are asking for sounds a lot like communism to me. Perhaps a communist country would be better suited to your needs/wants.

I fail to see how you being underpaid or broke and homeless is a US politicians or citizens problem. Racism exists every where, deal with it or move where it does not effect you. There will always be war somewhere on this planet.

Ask your friend "Colonel Slanders" he can answer all your questions about the US, he is an expert.

My point is why the US politicians were prepared to run to the aid of "poor Ukraine" when if they want to help as you quite correctly pointed out they could solve some problems at home.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by theking

The head of the Joint Chiefs has stated that the military is taking old cold war plans off the shelve...and taking a new look at them. I had thought that it was because of the Ukraine business...but the violation of the Nuclear Arms Treaty puts a new light on what he said.

Yeah, NO.

They do this on a regular basis, not when they think there is a problem and that they might "need" to invade. There is a department in the Pentagon that does nothing but plan out war games on paper, and they constantly update everything. They have plans to fight every country, including our allies such as the UK and Canada.

This isn't something they did because of a specific event, but instead they do this as a regular practice.

[WDF]

Originally Posted by Cherry7

My point is why the US politicians were prepared to run to the aid of "poor Ukraine" when if they want to help as you quite correctly pointed out they could solve some problems at home.

How is this your point when the bulk of what you said was this below:

Originally Posted by Cherry7

I have been on many demonstrations in the UK, never have any foreign politicians come to speak to us to help us end poverty, racism, homelessness and foreign wars.

I did not notice any where in your posts in this thread, or any other thread you post in, where you stated that US politicians should solve any issues with in it's own borders.

I did notice where you suggested that someone from a foreign government should help you solve issues where you live. The issues you ask to be solved in part of your post hint at communism or a hand out.

So which is it, you want someone else to support your lifestyle or your want someone to make it so no other person lives better then you?

You can Take a Comrade out of the Motherland, but you can't take the Motherlands Communist Ideology out of the Comrade.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Yeah, NO.

They do this on a regular basis, not when they think there is a problem and that they might "need" to invade. There is a department in the Pentagon that does nothing but plan out war games on paper, and they constantly update everything. They have plans to fight every country, including our allies such as the UK and Canada.

This isn't something they did because of a specific event, but instead they do this as a regular practice.

I am aware of this but he made it clear they were looking because of the on going actions of Russia/Putin.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by theking

I am aware of this but he made it clear they were looking because of the on going actions of Russia/Putin.

coldwar plans would be pre 90s.. but 90s would be when they went with air supremacy doctrine.. so, what cold war plans would apply?

[theking]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

coldwar plans would be pre 90s.. but 90s would be when they went with air supremacy doctrine.. so, what cold war plans would apply?

He was not talking about any specific "cold war" plans...but making the point that the government was/is taking the current situation with Russia/Putin seriously. War plans are constantly being updated.

[_Richard_]

so, basically a chance to say 'cold war'. thought so

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by theking

...that President Reagan and Gorbachev agreed to and it is being reported that this is not the first time. The President called him out on it a few days ago...but I have not seen any more reports about it since. The President made a speech about additional sanctions being imposed over Putin's continued interference in the Ukraine but in the speech did not even mention the violation of the Nuclear Arms Treaty,

Does anyone have additional info?

According to that agreement, NATO has promised it won't move to the Eastern Europe on a meter. As far as we all know, the USA have violated that agreement just immediately and continue to violate it today. So what additional info are you looking for? If you can not keep your word, so why Russia should keep its own one?

[TeenCat]

fuck, killputin.com have been bought this april ...

[halfpint]

I wish the russians would just go into Ukrain and take it over instead of pussy footing around letting the ukrain army carry on killing civilians. It would be over so quickly and less civilain deaths. The US and UK and other EU countrys would bitch over it like they are doing now but they wouldent go to war with russia over it . Fuck politics it never works it just fucks things up and proglongs war.

Either that or lets fucking nuke each other and get it over with ...stop pussy footing around its getting so boring with the same old sanctions bullshit that never works

[TeenCat]

Originally Posted by halfpint

I wish the russians would just go into Ukrain and take it over instead of pussy footing around letting the ukrain army carry on killing civilians. It would be over so quickly and less civilain deaths. The US and UK and other EU countrys would bitch over it like they are doing now but they wouldent go to war with russia over it . Fuck politics it never works it just fucks things up and proglongs war.

Either that or lets fucking nuke each other and get it over with ...stop pussy footing around its getting so boring with the same old sanctions bullshit that never works

yeah, maybe russia can also take over east europe, as in the past. great idea

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by TeenCat

yeah, maybe russia can also take over east europe, as in the past. great idea

What for? Any profit of that? What's the profit of feeding 40+ millions of starving people in the Ukraine? What's the profit of feeding the EU countries? Do you have any resources? No? So why somebody will want to take over you? Africa is a much more profitable piece of cake than any of the EU countries. Once again: lots of beer alcoholics and no resources in the EU, while Africa is oil, diamonds, uranium etc. This is what China is doing right now.

[TeenCat]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

What for? Any profit of that? What's the profit of feeding 40+ millions of starving people in the Ukraine? What's the profit of feeding the EU countries? Do you have any resources? No? So why somebody will want to take over you? Africa is much more profitable piece of cake than any of the EU countries (once again: lots of beer alcoholics and no resources there).

lol mate, calm down, it was just sarcastic and a joke. oh, you radicals ...

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by TeenCat

yeah, maybe russia can also take over east europe, as in the past. great idea

Russia does not want europe Ukrain is on its border so it has to be involved one way or the other The US, UK would do exactly the same if all this shit was hapening on their borders so why is it so wrong for russia to do what its doing now ?

Why the hell shouldent those people in the ukrain regions who wish to belong to russia be allowed to , This is how democratic countrys work Scotland wants to break away from the UK its the same damm. The ukrain govt has caused all this killing instead of letting the people vote to either stay with ukrain or go to russia The ukrainuim govt are seriuosly fucked up and are the main cause of the problems

[Cherry7]

Originally Posted by WDF

How is this your point when the bulk of what you said was this below:



I did not notice any where in your posts in this thread, or any other thread you post in, where you stated that US politicians should solve any issues with in it's own borders.

I did notice where you suggested that someone from a foreign government should help you solve issues where you live. The issues you ask to be solved in part of your post hint at communism or a hand out.

So which is it, you want someone else to support your lifestyle or your want someone to make it so no other person lives better then you?

You can Take a Comrade out of the Motherland, but you can't take the Motherlands Communist Ideology out of the Comrade.

That was irony. It's like silvery or goldy

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by TeenCat

lol mate, calm down, it was just sarcastic and a joke. oh, you radicals ...

"Ridiculous"? Really? Man, it was just a funny comment. Nothing personal and especially ridiculous. Winter is coming ;)

[just a punk]

Sorry but I wasn't able to hold myself from posting this (just love this series):



Clickable

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Sorry but I wasn't able to hold myself from posting this (just love this series):



Clickable

she is so sexy

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by halfpint

she is so sexy

Indeed But she's just a part of the show

P.S. Love their clear English accent in that movie.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Yeah, NO.

They do this on a regular basis, not when they think there is a problem and that they might "need" to invade. There is a department in the Pentagon that does nothing but plan out war games on paper, and they constantly update everything. They have plans to fight every country, including our allies such as the UK and Canada.

This isn't something they did because of a specific event, but instead they do this as a regular practice.

Every military that has even somewhat sense in their head plays wargames. Although not usually against every opponent, as that would be pointless for most countries.

[Sid70]

All the rooseen crack head coders love the fiction series, they fucking live there.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by sid70

all the rooseen crack head coders love the fiction series, they fucking live there.

Я понятия не имею, что ты умирающий от цирроза алкаш, хотел сказать. Но я точно знаю, что ты читаешь мои посты. Сало уронили!

[TeenCat]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

"Ridiculous"? Really? Man, it was just a funny comment. Nothing personal and especially ridiculous. Winter is coming ;)

where i said ridiculous? oh, you radicals ...

[theking]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

According to that agreement, NATO has promised it won't move to the Eastern Europe on a meter. As far as we all know, the USA have violated that agreement just immediately and continue to violate it today. So what additional info are you looking for? If you can not keep your word, so why Russia should keep its own one?

I understand that English is not your first language...so I am sorry...I do not understand babble.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by theking

I understand that English is not your first language...so I am sorry...I do not understand babble.

Not a problem. Really

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by aka123

Every military that has even somewhat sense in their head plays wargames. Although not usually against every opponent, as that would be pointless for most countries.

Not for the United States. WWII changed everything for us.

This is why we have the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and two mothball fleets for ships....

[dyna mo]

this is significant. I saw some excerpts from the interview with a top brass re: dusting off cold war strategies.

Reading between the lines and applying a bit of reality, there are plenty of top career brass who are chomping at the bit to play war with russia. It's the primary adversary of our military, both historically and in technology/logistics. We have prepared for the last 70 years on kicking Russia's ass.

And let's be real about something else. This is a prime opportunity to do that. And just as important, USA is implicated fully in this entire UKraine ordeal, from the rebelion to mh17 and on, and we've supported that with a major propaganda campaign.

So USA is butfuck serious about this.

Russia is in no position to think they could or can win this either. The difference maker is

1. the entire western world is allying itself against Russia/Putin.

2. based on #1 and knowing where Russia GDP is derived and where Russia is currently economically, a war combined with a virtually total shutdown of Russian exports would spell instant collapse of that country.


Finally, this isn't about USA people v Russian people. It's about goverbment v governmnet.

[Cherry7]

It does look like forces in the US trying for Cold War 2, but there is also China in the equation and how she will react in these Imperialist block rivalry.