Texas Wants to Execute Man Who Killed Home Intruder Who Turned Out to Be SWAT Member

[wehateporn]

http://reason.com/blog/2014/09/17/te...-who-killed-ho

"Attempting to serve a search warrant by entering a house through a window got Killeen, Texas, Police Detective Charles Dinwiddie shot in the face and killed last May. It was yet another SWAT raid organized for a purpose other than the reason they were invented. The police had a search warrant looking for narcotics at the home of Marvin Louis Guy, 49. They decided to serve this warrant at 5:30 in the morning and without knocking on his door. He opened fire on them, killing Dinwiddie and injuring three others."

Continued http://reason.com/blog/2014/09/17/te...-who-killed-ho

[just a punk]

Seems that stand your ground law is not working in Texas anymore. Cool news for the Texas robbers. Just wear a mask + uniform and you can freely break into any house because nobody will shoot you for that anymore (who knows, maybe you are a SWAT member) ;)

[blackmonsters]

If Obama's son was crawling through a window......


.

[Penny24Seven]

hope he gets a fair jury that can see you cannot do shit like this. If you are allowed to protect your home then how can he be guilty. Unless he yelled fuck you cops and started shooting he should be let go.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Brian837

hope he gets a fair jury that can see you cannot do shit like this. If you are allowed to protect your home then how can he be guilty. Unless he yelled fuck you cops and started shooting he should be let go.

You have the right to defend your home, but you do not have the right to shot and kill police officers legally serving a search warrant.

How do you know the difference between a robber breaking in and a group of police officers serving a warrant? You really can't. But if you live by the sword, there is a good chance you will die by the sword. If you don't like your options, don't live by the sword - Don't sell drugs and you don't have to carry firearms to protect yourself.

I understand that some people feel the need to be able to protect their house with firearms, but I just don't feel the same way. I am forty-six years old (and well armed with multiple assault rifles) yet I've never known ANYONE who has been the victim of a home invasion or even confronting an armed robber in their house.

[iSpyCams]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Seems that stand your ground law is not working in Texas anymore. Cool news for the Texas robbers. Just wear a mask + uniform and you can freely break into any house because nobody will shoot you for that anymore (who knows, maybe you are a SWAT member) ;)

There is no "stand your ground" in Texas. There is "Castle Doctrine" meaning, don't shoot till they are inside the house, or, after you shoot them drag the body inside.

There have been many cases in Texas of LEO's and others being shot during no-knock raids and in most cases the shooter is eventually exonerated. Of course, in most cases that make news, the shooter is white, so, I guess we'll see how this one turns out.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You have the right to defend your home, but you do not have the right to shot and kill police officers legally serving a search warrant.

How do you know the difference between a robber breaking in and a group of police officers serving a warrant? You really can't. But if you live by the sword, there is a good chance you will die by the sword. If you don't like your options, don't live by the sword - Don't sell drugs and you don't have to carry firearms to protect yourself.

I understand that some people feel the need to be able to protect their house with firearms, but I just don't feel the same way. I am forty-six years old (and well armed with multiple assault rifles) yet I've never known ANYONE who has been the victim of a home invasion or even confronting an armed robber in their house.

How about the police officers knock on his door, or kick it in like they do all the time? Sneaking in through a window = intruder = shoot that motherfucker.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Rochard

How do you know the difference between a robber breaking in and a group of police officers serving a warrant?

Actually you will. There is a standard procedure to do a search warrant in any country. Don't know about Texas, but usually police must identify itself and show a warrant. Hint: every home has a door, which must be used to follow the procedure w/o such stupid issues (the one must be a complete idiot to break into the window at 5am). Looks like Texas SWAT guys watch too much Hollywood movies

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Don't sell drugs and you don't have to carry firearms to protect yourself.

yet no drugs were found, and he has been charged only with the shootings brought about by a guy clambering through the window of a habitual drug user at 5.30am

Like you say though - live by the sword, die by the sword. Hopefully the dead copper's family understand that.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I am forty-six years old (and irrelevant statement here) yet I've never known ANYONE who has been the victim of a home invasion or even confronting an armed robber in their house.

The man with 7 billion friends. kudos.

[Tam]

Originally Posted by vdbucks

How about the police officers knock on his door, or kick it in like they do all the time? Sneaking in through a window = intruder = shoot that motherfucker.

This is exactly what I was thinking and I am in no way saying the guy deserved to die - but good lord, what did they think was going to happen if they go flying in someone's window without warning or anything? There has got to be a line in the sand somewhere when it comes to people just busing in your own damn front door - regardless of who or what you are - what color - anything - there's got to be a line - that's all!

[bagfull]

have you every seen swat come thru some one house, they do not say we swat or tell you who there our, not in black and latin hoods, they just bust in. The police didnt say i am the police, he tried to sneak in the window and got cap on, like he should

[Tom_PM]

Luckily there is a line in the sand and it's always been there. The constitution of the united states, and rules for police on how to serve a warrant. The cops fucked up, one of them died, and now they're making a mockery of law by prosecuting the shooter who by all appearances, broke NO laws.

[Barry-xlovecam]

[T]wo former Los Angeles Police Department officers, along with 13 others, have plead guilty to running a robbery ring, which used fake no-knock raids as a ruse to catch victims off guard. The defendants would then steal cash and drugs to sell on the street. This tactic led Radley Balko, editor of Reason Magazine, to complain "So not only can you not be sure the people banging down your door at night are the police, not only can you not be sure they?re the police even if they say they?re the police, you can?t even be sure it?s safe to let them in even if they are the police."[4][5 ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-knock_warrant

Knock and Announce http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knock-and-announce

Bottom line: when no loss of life is threatened, a more limited ruling of exigent circumstance, a knock and announce ruling needs to be made by SCOTUS, and to be precedent in constitutional law with regard to 4th Amendment US Constitutional Rights.

If evidence gets destroyed, or the subject of a search warrant escapes -- is that is a greater price to pay than the loss-of-human life (even if they are low-lifes) from a no knock and no announce service of a warrant or any police entrance into a private home with force?

Ask the dead cop if it was worth playing Rambo -- you cannot ...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Actually you will. There is a standard procedure to do a search warrant in any country. Don't know about Texas, but usually police must identify itself and show a warrant. Hint: every home has a door, which must be used to follow the procedure w/o such stupid issues (the one must be a complete idiot to break into the window at 5am). Looks like Texas SWAT guys watch too much Hollywood movies

You missed my point. Anyone can buy a police jacket online and yell "police we have a warrant" while busting down the door. In the heat of the moment, the first ten seconds, it's impossible to tell the difference.

You mentioned "Texas SWAT watch too many Hollywood movies" but I think very few of us really understand how law enforcement work until you are on the other side of them. Normally any dealings we have with them are simple and worst case end up with us getting a fine, but police can be quick to put you in the ground and the moment they think you are a threat or resisting they are very forceful and it's painfaul. I learned that first hand during a full felony stop in 2005 or so - I ate some gravel even though I had done nothing more than speeding.

Watch COPS more often. It's amazing how quickly a run in with a police officer can go from "how are you tonight" to having your face in the gravel on the side of the road.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Jel

yet no drugs were found, and he has been charged only with the shootings brought about by a guy clambering through the window of a habitual drug user at 5.30am

Like you say though - live by the sword, die by the sword. Hopefully the dead copper's family understand that.

The fact that no drugs were found has little to with anything. The police were serving a perfectly legal warrant. They legally had the right to enter the house.

This is just like that baby who got hurt during the early morning raid. On one hand it's terrible, and it's stunning that local police departments use stun gernades and what not, but then again the family MUST have known this guy was dealing drugs. This sounds horrible when I say it out loud but if you know someone is involved in illegal activity, you stay fucking clear of them - if not, you run the risk of something like this happening.

I don't know about anyone else, but I pick and choose my friends. I've walked away from people who I knew were no good and would cause drama. I had a friend once who got arrested and when they confronted him I was with him, and I got the chance to eat some dirt. Yeah, NO, I'm not going through that again - I don't care if he's guilty or not; I just don't want to be involved with anything along these lines.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You have the right to defend your home, but you do not have the right to shot and kill police officers legally serving a search warrant.

Originally Posted by Rochard

You missed my point. Anyone can buy a police jacket online and yell "police we have a warrant" while busting down the door. In the heat of the moment, the first ten seconds, it's impossible to tell the difference.

You seem to have missed your own point.

[MrBottomTooth]

I'm quite impressed this guy was able to kill one of them and injure 3 others without getting killed himself. I hope he gets off.

There's zero reason the police needed to enter through a window at 5 AM. Hell, they could wait for him to leave and serve the warrant, collect their evidence then quietly arrest him while he's at work.

Fuck the police.

[huey]

I guess it's to boring and inexpensive for two cops to wait out side his house and wait for him to go to 7-11 and serve the warrant then.

[bagfull]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I'm quite impressed this guy was able to kill one of them and injure 3 others without getting killed himself. I hope he gets off.

There's zero reason the police needed to enter through a window at 5 AM. Hell, they could wait for him to leave and serve the warrant, collect their evidence then quietly arrest him while he's at work.

Fuck the police.

So true. Fuck the poo poo

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You have the right to defend your home, but you do not have the right to shot and kill police officers legally serving a search warrant.

How do you know the difference between a robber breaking in and a group of police officers serving a warrant? You really can't. But if you live by the sword, there is a good chance you will die by the sword. If you don't like your options, don't live by the sword - Don't sell drugs and you don't have to carry firearms to protect yourself.

I understand that some people feel the need to be able to protect their house with firearms, but I just don't feel the same way. I am forty-six years old (and well armed with multiple assault rifles) yet I've never known ANYONE who has been the victim of a home invasion or even confronting an armed robber in their house.

They did not find any drugs.

For all we know some chick he dumped could have called the cops and made it up.
We don't know and the cops don't know either, so why act like they are invading Iraq?

All they were looking for was drugs, not a murder suspect; but they show up ready to kill
and think people are robots who will not feel like their life is threaten and simply react.

It's fucking stupid that cops take this huge risk to TRY and find a bag of dope.
Killing a 7 year old girl sleeping on a couch is not even enough to make the cops re-think this stupidity.

Cops love shooting their guns too much to change.

You'd think they'd want to change after seeing that this cop just die for absolutely nothing.

[Jel]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I ignored what you specifically posted, in specific reference to what I posted, and wrote some long ass irrelevant shit

ok cool

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Seems that stand your ground law is not working in Texas anymore. Cool news for the Texas robbers. Just wear a mask + uniform and you can freely break into any house because nobody will shoot you for that anymore (who knows, maybe you are a SWAT member) ;)

'stand your ground' only works for some people

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Rochard

The fact that no drugs were found has little to with anything. The police were serving a perfectly legal warrant. They legally had the right to enter the house.

This is just like that baby who got hurt during the early morning raid. On one hand it's terrible, and it's stunning that local police departments use stun gernades and what not, but then again the family MUST have known this guy was dealing drugs. This sounds horrible when I say it out loud but if you know someone is involved in illegal activity, you stay fucking clear of them - if not, you run the risk of something like this happening.

I don't know about anyone else, but I pick and choose my friends. I've walked away from people who I knew were no good and would cause drama. I had a friend once who got arrested and when they confronted him I was with him, and I got the chance to eat some dirt. Yeah, NO, I'm not going through that again - I don't care if he's guilty or not; I just don't want to be involved with anything along these lines.

But why do you make drugs so important?
More people are dying from cops chasing drugs then will die from using drugs.

There are tons of drugs in my neighborhood but the only people pointing loaded guns around here are the cops.
The cops are bringing all the violence to the neighborhood; the only doors/windows/people bashed in are the ones the cops break/beat down looking for drugs.

They best way to reduce violence and property damage in my hood is to ask the cops to stay out out it.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Rochard

The fact that no drugs were found has little to with anything. The police were serving a perfectly legal warrant. They legally had the right to enter the house.

So why wouldn't they knock on the door and announce "police, search warrant"? Wait the required time to see if someone answers and if not, bash the door in.

Some motherfucker busts through my window at 5 AM and the first thing I am doing is grabbing my samurai sword that hangs by my bed and I'm swinging at limbs (I'm in Canada, so we don't get all the cool guns, eh!)

That's like saying cops have the right to pull you over and ticket you for speeding, so it's OK if instead of turning their sirens on and giving you a chance to pull over, they just decide to ram your car off the road into the ditch without any warning.

[Best-In-BC]

Seems justified .

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I am forty-six years old (and well armed with multiple assault rifles) yet I've never known ANYONE who has been the victim of a home invasion or even confronting an armed robber in their house.

Not sure how that is relevant. I have known friends that were victims of home invasions and I served on a jury for another one.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I am forty-six years old (and well armed with multiple assault rifles)

wait, so it's OK for you to own multiple ILLEGAL IN CALIFORNIA assault rifles but dude in the OP is a criminal for being a doper.

I see.

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Watch COPS more often.

[SuckOnThis]

Bust in someones house and you're asking for it.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Originally Posted by Brian837

hope he gets a fair jury that can see you cannot do shit like this. If you are allowed to protect your home then how can he be guilty. Unless he yelled fuck you cops and started shooting he should be let go.

Look, who wants another 9/11? Nobody, that's who.

[SmutHammer]

Cops are dumb for sneaking into a mans house who has registered firearms and he should not face any charges. If the guns were not legal then throw the book at him.

I'm all for people having the right to own guns of any kind, but our country needs to be extremely strict to anyone having possession of one illegally

(I did not read everyone's posts or anything on the story.)

[brassmonkey]

sure they didnt knock!

[L-Pink]

Coming in unannounced also means they are geared up to shoot your house pets that will naturally act aggressively to a stranger loudly breaking in the house. At that point I'd shoot the fucker cop or not.

.

[TheSquealer]

Shouldn't an obvious question be "how was it that he had a gun loaded and ready and aimed at the door" if he's being charged with murder it's because the state can prove he knew they were police, he knew they were coming, he grabbed a gun and waited for them and then opened fire.

The state is not going to attempt a very public, multi million dollar capital murder case unless the evidence is overwhelming... or unless you're a conspiracy nut.

[MK Ultra]

Originally Posted by Ed Hammer

Cops are dumb for sneaking into a mans house who has registered firearms and he should not face any charges. If the guns were not legal then throw the book at him.
I'm all for people having the right to own guns of any kind, but our country needs to be extremely strict to anyone having possession of one illegally

Texas doesn't require any gun registration in fact only six states and DC do require it.
So the cops wouldn't necessarily know the man was armed beforehand
I also didn't see anything in the story about the gun used being "illegal"


From an earlier article: http://kdhnews.com/news/crime/man-co...a4bcf6878.html

According to the arrest affidavit, Guy admitted to police he shot at ?a number of persons? outside of residence before being taken into custody Friday.

Shooting at somebody from the inside of the residence to the outside makes the "home defense" scenario a bit more problematic.

In Texas, anyone who kills a peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty can be charged with capital murder and could face the death penalty, if convicted.

It sounds to me like State Law is being followed.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by MK Ultra

Texas doesn't require any gun registration in fact only six states and DC do require it.
So the cops wouldn't necessarily know the man was armed beforehand
I also didn't see anything in the story about the gun used being "illegal"


From an earlier article: http://kdhnews.com/news/crime/man-co...a4bcf6878.html


Shooting at somebody from the inside of the residence to the outside makes the "home defense" scenario a bit more problematic.

It sounds to me like State Law is being followed.

i was all, 'wow, the guy shot at people outside his residence? boy does that change the..:'

"According to KPD officials, the officers were attempting to breach a window when Guy opened fire, striking four of them."

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Don't sell drugs and you don't have to carry firearms to protect yourself.

I can think of multiple reasons why someone would want to own a gun, none of which have to do with selling drugs or needing it for protection while selling drugs.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You have the right to defend your home, but you do not have the right to shot and kill police officers legally serving a search warrant.

How do you know the difference between a robber breaking in and a group of police officers serving a warrant? You really can't. But if you live by the sword, there is a good chance you will die by the sword. If you don't like your options, don't live by the sword - Don't sell drugs and you don't have to carry firearms to protect yourself.

I understand that some people feel the need to be able to protect their house with firearms, but I just don't feel the same way. I am forty-six years old (and well armed with multiple assault rifles) yet I've never known ANYONE who has been the victim of a home invasion or even confronting an armed robber in their house.

the "home invasion" is a paranoid fantasy of gun nuts who are dying to shoot someone and be a big hero. They're more likely to shoot a loved one or themselves, than some roving band of marauders.

and I'm someone who also loves guns.

[- Jesus Christ -]

Originally Posted by bronco67

paranoid fantasy of gun nuts

I love degenerate hive mind talking points... the the bile that rises up in my throat when I read them makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

[mikesouth]

the problem isnt stand your ground the problem is no knock warrants

its been like that for ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting

[brassmonkey]

good news free food and rent. bad news is lights out

[Seth Manson]

Oh boy... Rochard is posting his crazy shit that doesnt apply to anything again.

[pornguy]

Florida has a law called " Knock and Announce " after many court hearings it has been determined that the announce can go with the knock of the door hammer or Frame splitter.

If they DONT Announce they violated the State law. I believe there have actually been arrests of officers for this.

[vdbucks]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Shouldn't an obvious question be "how was it that he had a gun loaded and ready and aimed at the door" if he's being charged with murder it's because the state can prove he knew they were police, he knew they were coming, he grabbed a gun and waited for them and then opened fire.

They came in through his window, which probably made noise, which the guy probably heard, at which time he probably grabbed his gun, then opened fire at the moron breaking into his house through a window.

Moral of the story... the cops should have used the damn door and announced themselves, instead of creeping into the guys house through a window at 5:30am.

[420]

They should throw more tear gas or real grenades.

[Matt 26z]

If I was on the jury I'd want to know exactly what this guy was seeing and hearing as the officer was coming through the window.

Originally Posted by MK Ultra

It sounds to me like State Law is being followed.

They were executing a warrant based on hearsay. They obtained info from a third party that there was a little cocaine in the house and decided to raid. I'm assuming this is legal, but should it be?

IMO they should have to know as a 100% fact that the illegal material is (or believe it to still be) in the house.

[420]

Agreed they should have to stakeout or bust several buyers from the house before they can raid it. Then they should knock and announce themselves before busting in the door and windows. It sounds too simple to be a proper solution. They'd rather pay confidential informants for questionable information.

[SuckOnThis]

Shocking that anyone supports cops busting peoples door down over drugs. Whether they exist or not.

[420]

Well, it's illegal to have drugs in the house and cops don't like waiting until you're gone. They have all that fancy equipment and they like using it.