So the movie industry missed the boat too

[Rochard]

We saw how the music industry did everything they could to prevent their music from being sold on line, and now they all sell their music through iTunes and a handful of others. The music industry totally missed it.

The movie industry is doing the same. We have Netflix and Hulu and a few others, and now HOB just announced they will selling their content online. Why hasn't the big movie companies gotten together and made something like Netflix?

[kane]

There are many movie distributors now that sell their movies on iTunes and VOD at the same time they are in theaters or even before. Last night I was watching Fallon and the actress he had on is in a new movie that comes out in November, but you can get in on iTunes and VOD now.

I think one of the reasons that they don't put them online is that many of these older movies that are just sitting there collecting dust act as tax write offs for the studios and they are more valuable as a tax write off than if they put out a streaming service and made a few dollars off of them.

HBO may be changing the entire cable game when they go live with their streaming service....so long as it doesn't suck.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by kane

There are many movie distributors now that sell their movies on iTunes and VOD at the same time they are in theaters or even before. Last night I was watching Fallon and the actress he had on is in a new movie that comes out in November, but you can get in on iTunes and VOD now.

I think one of the reasons that they don't put them online is that many of these older movies that are just sitting there collecting dust act as tax write offs for the studios and they are more valuable as a tax write off than if they put out a streaming service and made a few dollars off of them.

HBO may be changing the entire cable game when they go live with their streaming service....so long as it doesn't suck.

So like I said, they missed the boat... They release them through iTunes, which means Apple gets a cut... The music industry fucked up - instead of becoming both the producer and the distributor, now they have to share their profits with iTunes. Same with the movie industry.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Rochard

So like I said, they missed the boat... They release them through iTunes, which means Apple gets a cut... The music industry fucked up - instead of becoming both the producer and the distributor, now they have to share their profits with iTunes. Same with the movie industry.

The potential issue with the movie industry is that you would have have to have one of two setups. Either a centralized service (like Netflix/Hulu) that all of the studios used or each would have to set up their own service. If you have a single, centralized service their will be fighting over profit sharing, expense sharing, development etc. If you have many smaller versions people may not be willing to buy. I am more than happy to pay $8 per month for Netflix. But I don't think I would want to pay $5-$8 per month to each of a dozen different studios for access to their services. If they all had their own versions of the service then the question becomes: Does the service make more for the studio than they get from writing off the depreciation on the old movies?

I agree they have missed the boat and there is opportunity out there for them, but I don't think it is as simple as just, "put it online and sell it."

[Barry-xlovecam]

Why didn't the porn studios make "pornflix'' with their old product instead of wait for their copyright product to be stolen?
Greed or digital ignorance -- they missed the boat too ...

[shoot twice]

Originally Posted by Rochard

The movie industry is doing the same. We have Netflix and Hulu and a few others, and now HOB just announced they will selling their content online. Why hasn't the big movie companies gotten together and made something like Netflix?

Netflix, Hulu, etc... etc... etc...

The cold hard facts of the matter is you can exploit the shit out of the Internet but it'll only make a difference equal to that of a piss in ocean.

Music, television, books, movies or porn. If you're actually in the business of actually producing something then it doesn't matter how you exploit it or what business approach you pursue because at the end of the day you're going to earn a fraction of what a traditional-old-fashioned business model did. So there's no boat to miss, it's having to deal with the fact that you've gone from sailing on a luxury ocean liner to paddling a canoe.

Youtube, Facebook, etc. All the companies that have gotten rich and powerful because of the Internet have never been saddled with the expense of producing the content they benefit from. If Facebook had to pay the thousands of women that upload pictures of themselves that keep the millions of horny men trolling their profiles, facebook would be broke with a week. It's the same if youtube had to produce the content that millions of people watch, tumblr for the millions of gifs and all the other sites.

So adapt or die??
Adaption is layoffs, downsizing, outsourcing to 3rd world nations, producing shit sensationalistic garbage and taking someone's money then going out of business and therefore screwing them over.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We saw how the music industry did everything they could to prevent their music from being sold on line, and now they all sell their music through iTunes and a handful of others. The music industry totally missed it.

The movie industry is doing the same. We have Netflix and Hulu and a few others, and now HOB just announced they will selling their content online. Why hasn't the big movie companies gotten together and made something like Netflix?

Because, until recently, the internet was totally out of control.
Putting that stuff up 14 years ago was like fueling your own demise through theft.

It's impossible to run a paid streaming service without stopping mass redistribution by
unauthorized websites.

Megaupload is down; end of story.

[shoot twice]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Because, until recently, the internet was totally out of control.
Putting that stuff up 14 years ago was like fueling your own demise through theft.

It's impossible to run a paid streaming service without stopping mass redistribution by
unauthorized websites.

Megaupload is down; end of story.

Well I sincerely doubt that megaupload is the end of story. After all youtube is still screwing the music industry but no one is going to be able to touch them because Google has it's nose right up the government's ass.

Obviously things are getting better but things are never going to be as good as they used to be and this includes productions. Where the entertainment industry used to make dollars they now fight for nickles. So therefore they're forced to produce on a budget of pennies. Just look at the porn industry; For example "Talk Dirty to me" was made for just over $100k and it obviously grossed far more than that. Today we're dragging our heels on taking a chance to make a video for a measly $5k.

There's really no incentive to be creative or take a risk on something new and different as long as the Internet can screw over a creator.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We saw how the music industry did everything they could to prevent their music from being sold on line, and now they all sell their music through iTunes and a handful of others. The music industry totally missed it.

The movie industry is doing the same. We have Netflix and Hulu and a few others, and now HOB just announced they will selling their content online. Why hasn't the big movie companies gotten together and made something like Netflix?

Because they are fucking stupid.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Rochard

We saw how the music industry did everything they could to prevent their music from being sold on line, and now they all sell their music through iTunes and a handful of others. The music industry totally missed it.

The movie industry is doing the same. We have Netflix and Hulu and a few others, and now HOB just announced they will selling their content online. Why hasn't the big movie companies gotten together and made something like Netflix?

I'd say the movie industry is doing just fine. Movies have become bigger and budgets have exploded, and movie theatres are capturing the ticket sales by offering super huge screens, very comfy seats, and earth-shaking sound. My better half and I go to the movies at least once a month and the theatre seats are always pretty full.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by shoot twice

There's really no incentive to be creative or take a risk on something new and different as long as the Internet can screw over a creator.

Yeah. Before the internet you had to master something, press it, box it, distribute it, pay for it to be in warehouses, and ship it round the world.

Now all those massive costs are totally gone.

Only a fucking idiot would think that is bad.

You need to think about how to embrace the change, not whinge about it like a little girl.

The music industry fucked it up, the movie industry fucked it up, the porn industry fucked it up, the games industry kinda got it right with Steam etc.

So, do you want to be a dinosaur or try and work out how to take advantage of a global, instant, as good as free distribution channel?

Live is the answer, real is the answer. You cannot pirate the experience of a cam show. You cannot pirate the experience of an escort.

After 10 years of working with porn sites I am now working as good as exclusively for an escort site. The money is fucking astounding.

Adapt, as they say, or die. Or whinge about it like a girl.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Why didn't the porn studios make "pornflix'' with their old product instead of wait for their copyright product to be stolen?
Greed or digital ignorance -- they missed the boat too ...

deeeerrrrp what's VOD george?

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

deeeerrrrp what's VOD george?

How does that compare with a service like Netflix at less that $10.00 /mo for unlimited viewing? VOD fell flat on its face when you could watch stolen content for free on tubes -- who's fault was that ?

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by Rochard

So like I said, they missed the boat... They release them through iTunes, which means Apple gets a cut... The music industry fucked up - instead of becoming both the producer and the distributor, now they have to share their profits with iTunes. Same with the movie industry.

Movie companies are the producer and distributor. They just do not run the platforms.

Hollywood actually did it correctly with their model. Instead of setting up their own service and having the massive costs they instead can now license their product to multiple streaming services (NetFlix, Amazon, Verizon/Redbox, Apple etc). If one of those companies want exclusive rights they pay a high premium. The studios then only license out the streaming rights after all other distribution channels have been completed (usually). Theater, second run theater, DVD, premium cable, basic cable, then streaming.

On top of that, each studio is seeing a windfall licensing their back catalog to every platform. Its a great example of an industry protecting their content, maximizing the value of that content and embracing technology to increase their profits.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

How does that compare with a service like Netflix at less that $10.00 /mo for unlimited viewing? VOD fell flat on its face when you could watch stolen content for free on tubes -- who's fault was that ?

vod fell flat on its face? I'm pretty sure people are still making good money with it and the overhead is about 1/10000000 what movie studio are charging for distribution rights so not sure I understand your comparison here.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Because, until recently, the internet was totally out of control.
Putting that stuff up 14 years ago was like fueling your own demise through theft.

It's impossible to run a paid streaming service without stopping mass redistribution by
unauthorized websites.

Megaupload is down; end of story.

But they did put it up fourteen years ago. I was buying music through Rhapsody for my MP3 player in 2000. I remember it so clearly because I bought my mp3 player shortly before my daughter was born.

But this is my point. I'm not buying my music through RCA or any of the record labels. The record labels had a once in a life time opportunity to completely bypass the distribution network - i.e. record stores - and could be selling their product directly to the consumers. They blew it, and continue to sell their music through others such as iTunes who get profits for being the middle man.

The movie industry is the same. Instead of selling it's movies directly to the consumers, they'll sell it through other companies who get a cut.

Originally Posted by **********

I'd say the movie industry is doing just fine. Movies have become bigger and budgets have exploded, and movie theatres are capturing the ticket sales by offering super huge screens, very comfy seats, and earth-shaking sound. My better half and I go to the movies at least once a month and the theatre seats are always pretty full.

Bullshit. Movie sales peaked in 2002, 12 years ago.

And I'm not talking about when movies hits the theatres - I'm talking about afterwards. I can buy the DVD at Target, but then Target gets a cut, or I could sign up to Netflix and watch it there. But the movie companies do not have a place where I can buy / rent / lease movies. I'm buying from everyone except the movie companies.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Rochard

But they did put it up fourteen years ago. I was buying music through Rhapsody for my MP3 player in 2000. I remember it so clearly because I bought my mp3 player shortly before my daughter was born.

But this is my point. I'm not buying my music through RCA or any of the record labels. The record labels had a once in a life time opportunity to completely bypass the distribution network - i.e. record stores - and could be selling their product directly to the consumers. They blew it, and continue to sell their music through others such as iTunes who get profits for being the middle man.

The movie industry is the same. Instead of selling it's movies directly to the consumers, they'll sell it through other companies who get a cut.



Bullshit. Movie sales peaked in 2002, 12 years ago.

And I'm not talking about when movies hits the theatres - I'm talking about afterwards. I can buy the DVD at Target, but then Target gets a cut, or I could sign up to Netflix and watch it there. But the movie companies do not have a place where I can buy / rent / lease movies. I'm buying from everyone except the movie companies.

You should check out a movie on Netflix called Downloaded. It is a documentary about the rise and fall of Napster. On its own it is a very good movie. There is a very interesting segment towards the end where both sides (Napster and the record industry) are blaming each other for their issues. Napster said they went to the record industry in an effort to set up some kind of a pay system and the record industry said it never really happened. Then they talk about the emergence of iTunes and how the industry jumped on it because, unlike Napster, it charged for music and gave them a chance to get paid for downloads. That jump was a huge sea change in the industry because right then the music industry went from being an industry based on selling full albums to being an industry based on selling singles.

[shoot twice]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Yeah. Before the internet you had to master something, press it, box it, distribute it, pay for it to be in warehouses, and ship it round the world.

Now all those massive costs are totally gone.

Only a fucking idiot would think that is bad.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I kind of get the feeling that you've never been involved in producing anything... be it porn, music, a book, etc. I also get the feeling that you've never really had any sort of face-to-face interaction with someone that's involved in actual production.

Now you just can't throw something up on the Internet and expect to make money. It's just not that easy and there's a multitude of things that go on before any production is ready to be distributed to the consumer. And all these things require money, time, talent and a certain level of education. So you can argue the benefits of changing the channels of distribution but you need to address all the other variables and problems that go with the change.

Now to play devil's advocate...

Have you considered that possibly part of the problem why the public is demanding "Cheap" films, music, etc. is because the economy has taken a serious hit?

As you were polite enough to point out there's no need to pay someone to "press it," "box it," "distribute it," or "warehouse it". Many of these good paying jobs are now gone but the the demand for entertainment hasn't dropped. Many people today just don't have the disposable income to pay for a night out at a movie theater, a DVD from Walmart or even Netflix. So a lot of people might not pirate but good old Youtube comes to the rescue with lots of old movies, TV shows and mountains of decent quality music.

Originally Posted by DamianJ

You need to think about how to embrace the change, not whinge about it like a little girl.

The music industry fucked it up, the movie industry fucked it up, the porn industry fucked it up, the games industry kinda got it right with Steam etc.

You know you sound a lot like a spokesperson for the Pirate Bay or Kim Dotcom because it's the same mantra they all use. Considering they're all either in jail or going to jail you might want to expand your paradigm a little.

[420]

All you have to do when you miss the boat is swim over and climb up.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by shoot twice

Perhaps I'm wrong but I kind of get the feeling that you've never been involved in producing anything... be it porn, music, a book, etc. I also get the feeling that you've never really had any sort of face-to-face interaction with someone that's involved in actual production.

Now you just can't throw something up on the Internet and expect to make money. It's just not that easy and there's a multitude of things that go on before any production is ready to be distributed to the consumer. And all these things require money, time, talent and a certain level of education. So you can argue the benefits of changing the channels of distribution but you need to address all the other variables and problems that go with the change.

Now to play devil's advocate...

Have you considered that possibly part of the problem why the public is demanding "Cheap" films, music, etc. is because the economy has taken a serious hit?

As you were polite enough to point out there's no need to pay someone to "press it," "box it," "distribute it," or "warehouse it". Many of these good paying jobs are now gone but the the demand for entertainment hasn't dropped. Many people today just don't have the disposable income to pay for a night out at a movie theater, a DVD from Walmart or even Netflix. So a lot of people might not pirate but good old Youtube comes to the rescue with lots of old movies, TV shows and mountains of decent quality music.


You know you sound a lot like a spokesperson for the Pirate Bay or Kim Dotcom because it's the same mantra they all use. Considering they're all either in jail or going to jail you might want to expand your paradigm a little.

He is pretty much a parasite.

[signupdamnit]

The big difference between the mainstream film industry and adult which so many here willfully miss is that in the film industry the leaders of that industry are not/were not the pirates themselves.

Since 2009 and definitely by the end of 2011 this industry became controlled by the pirates themselves. So what did you all expect to happen? You let Manwin give the keynote speech for fucks sake! The equivalent in mainstream would be like The Pirate Bay sponsoring the Oscars and controlling the entire movie industry.

In actuality the mainstream film industry is FAR smarter than the adult industry is collectively. Even today many of you deny it as you sit on the ruins of what is left of your businesses.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

[S]ince 2009 and definitely by the end of 2011 this industry became controlled by the pirates themselves. So what did you all expect to happen? You let Manwin give the keynote speech for fucks sake! The equivalent in mainstream would be like The Pirate Bay sponsoring the Oscars and controlling the entire movie industry...

+1 that cut to the chase ...