Switzerland Prepares A "Living Wage" Of $2,600 For Every Citizen

[wehateporn]

Switzerland could soon be the world?s first national case study in basic income. Instead of providing a traditional social net?unemployment payments, food stamps, or housing credits?the government would pay every citizen a fixed stipend.

The idea of a living wage has been brewing in the country for over a year and last month, supporters of the movement dumped a truckload of eight million coins outside the Parliament building in Bern. The publicity stunt, which included a five-cent coin for every citizen, came attached with 125,000 signatures. Only 100,000 are necessary for any constitutional amendment to be put to a national vote, since Switzerland is a direct democracy.

The proposed plan would guarantee a monthly income of CHF 2,500, or about $2,600 as of November 2014. That means that every family (consisting of two adults) can expect an unconditional yearly income of $62,400 without having to work, with no strings attached. While Switzerland?s cost of living is significantly higher than the US - a Big Mac there costs $6.72 - it?s certainly not chump change. It?s reasonable income that could provide, at the minimum, a comfortable bare bones existence.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-1...-every-citizen

[seeandsee]

how to get their papers?

[aka123]

We have had discussion about that too, but the sum has been much lover, something between 500-1200 euros in a month. 500 euros is not enough for living in here, so that has been like "base" salary or something.

By the way Switzerland is not direct democracy, it is semidirect.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by seeandsee

how to get their papers?

Best shot is starting to believe to some hindu stuff and hoping that you reborn as a human in Switzerland, and not as a goat in Somalia.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by aka123

We have had discussion about that too, but the sum has been much lover, something between 500-1200 euros in a month. 500 euros is not enough for living in here, so that has been like "base" salary or something.

"here" is where ?

[aka123]

Originally Posted by JFK

"here" is where ?

Hop to another continent and walk to north until you see snow.

[Klen]

Kind a old news,tho though how they already had referendum and how it was denied.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Kind a old news,tho though how they already had referendum and how it was denied.

"According to ​the folks behind the Basic Income campaign, Switzerland's government will start discussing the proposal in spring 2015, with the public vote likely to take place by fall 2016. "

Switzerland May Give Every Citizen $2,600 a Month | Motherboard

[Klen]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

"According to ​the folks behind the Basic Income campaign, Switzerland's government will start discussing the proposal in spring 2015, with the public vote likely to take place by fall 2016. "

Switzerland May Give Every Citizen $2,600 a Month | Motherboard

Strange,i though referendums there are instant.3 years from collecting signatures to doing actual referendum is quite long.

[Antonio]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

"According to ​the folks behind the Basic Income campaign, Switzerland's government will start discussing the proposal in spring 2015, with the public vote likely to take place by fall 2016. "

Switzerland May Give Every Citizen $2,600 a Month | Motherboard

There was already a minimum wage referendum, which was voted against:
Swiss referendums, 2014 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unless this is another one?

[aka123]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Strange,i though referendums there are instant.3 years from collecting signatures to doing actual referendum is quite long.

Usually laws require preparation and such (as budgeting), but of course the time lapse could be shorter. If nothing else, they have to get the money to be paid.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by Antonio

There was already a minimum wage referendum, which was voted against:
Swiss referendums, 2014 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unless this is another one?

This isn't about minimum wage,it's about getting money for nothing and chicks for free.

[xato]

It's not gonna happen.

[CaptainHowdy]

That's the kind of country one wants to live in ...

[Wilbo]

If they did that in the U.S. half the people would just up and quit their jobs. The working people would be so heavily taxed that they would soon just quit their jobs also. The whole system would implode because everyone is on public assistance and very few would work and pay into the system.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

The proposed plan would guarantee a monthly income of CHF 2,500, or about $2,600 as of November 2014. That means that every family (consisting of two adults) can expect an unconditional yearly income of $62,400 without having to work, with no strings attached. While Switzerland’s cost of living is significantly higher than the US - a Big Mac there costs $6.72 - it’s certainly not chump change. It’s reasonable income that could provide, at the minimum, a comfortable bare bones existence.

Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

That's the kind of country one wants to live in ...

Didn't know there are so many commies at GFY ;)

[Klen]

Originally Posted by Wilbo

If they did that in the U.S. half the people would just up and quit their jobs. The working people would be so heavily taxed that they would soon just quit their jobs also. The whole system would implode because everyone is on public assistance and very few would work and pay into the system.

Not really,this is half of the minimum wage,meaning probably not enough to survive or to live on minimum of minimums.So if minimum wage in US is 1160 USD,(based on minimum hour rate of 7.25$),it would be let say 600$ monthly for each citizen,which i believe is probably not enough to survive in US.And you can probably make more money by begging on street.

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Didn't know there are so many commies at GFY ;)

Yeah it sound a bit commie,but i see one positive side of this- it could keep out lazy and unproductive people out of joob pool.So i think it is better to pay lazy people some minimum then full salary for doing nothing.For example,i would immediately switch all politicians to it as they are not doing anything one way or another

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Yeah it sound a bit commie

A bit? LOL ))) That's a keystone principle of the Communist Theory. At least according to Karl Marx: work as much as you want, gain as much as you need.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

A bit? LOL ))) That's a keystone principle of the Communist Theory. At least according to Karl Marx.

Well,communism is not 100% evil theory,plus think so far there was never real communism implemented anyway,only some twisted versions.And utopia theory also advise this.

[PR_Glen]

i don't want to speak for any other countries here but if we did something like that I don't think people wouldn't necessarily quit their jobs in hoards but one thing I guarantee would happen is a loaf of bread would jump to $20... and everyone would be worse off than they were because inflation would be through the roof. I'm not an economy major so someone a bit more in the know let me know if I'm right or not here or not.

6.72 big mac?? yeah we already have that here..

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

A bit? LOL ))) That's a keystone principle of the Communist Theory. At least according to Karl Marx: work as much as you want, gain as much as you need.

yeah no kidding hehe

[UniqueD]

I dont think citing the cost of a Big Mac is a fair comparison for cost of living.

[BaldBastard]

Min wage here in Aus is about 20 usd per hour, holidays and retirement contributions on top of that

[Rancho]

At least worth thinking about...

[woj]

I don't see anything at all positive about this... something like this really only appeals to commies, lazy fucks and utopia pipe dreamers...

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

So if minimum wage in US is 1160 USD,(based on minimum hour rate of 7.25$),it would be let say 600$ monthly for each citizen,which i believe is probably not enough to survive in US.

In fact, the USA is a very chap place. The life there is much cheaper than almost every European country, including my own one.

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Well,communism is not 100% evil theory

It's never been evil at all. In fact it's the most pro-human one. However it's an utopia.

[TeenCat]

it is nice that they have their own brains, and fucks the rest of the world, same with the schengen area, they opened their borders for a while, now you can imagine the flood of lazy not wanting to work people, they have strict rulez on borders again, whole europe is pissed, but why? i have been living there for few months year and fifteen years ago, and the difference is big, just because they made mistake and opened the borders for a while ... long live swiss!

[Klen]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

In fact, the USA is a very chap place. The life there is much cheaper than almost every European country, including my own one.



It's never been evil at all. In fact it's the most pro-human one. However it's an utopia.

Well,maybe is utopia to give enough money to each citizen,but i believe it is possible to make society without homeless and hungry people.Considering much food is wasted on daily bases and acres and acres of land unused, it is only matter of management.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Well,maybe is utopia to give enough money to each citizen,but i believe it is possible to make society without homeless and hungry people.

You won't believe me, but it was done already in the USSR. No homeless and no hungry or uneducated people at all. On the other side, no very reach people too. Everyone has almost the same salary. It was called "уравниловка".

[TheSquealer]

If only every country had a banking economy based on catering to murderous dictators embezzling national funds, nazi war crimes and tax evaders world wide.. then all nations could consider this.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

You won't believe me, but it was done already in the USSR. No homeless and no hungry or uneducated people at all. On the other side, no very reach people too. Everyone has almost the same salary. It was called "уравниловка".

Well think it was same more less in golden era of Yugoslavia.But same need to be established in capitalism,not just in society where everything is owned by state.
For example,when i was watching documentary about China,they were interviewing some peasants which raised against forced "union land",where you didn't had your own land and you could only work on that
some sort of "union land".And then china chairman allowed them to have their own land.Problem with such system is how it kills motivation,as if you limited what maximum you can achieve,then it is hard to be motivated.

[TeenCat]

btw, fifteen years ago there was no homeless, there was no people begging for anything, just in parks, you could see people playing some musical instrument, or in the trains there was people going with flowers and you could buy them for few change to help them. and, all the big shops have been offering food for free, in the back of the super markets, there was place for poor people to get free food, any food ... now, they opened their borders, and swiss is starting to look like some germany or italy ... leave the swiss alone, and work hard to have money to spend at least nice two weeks of vacation in heaven!

[tony286]

It actually saves money because it ends fraud for gov services. This may be the future, with technology creating a need for less and less workers. You got to do something with those people, they all cant work at mcdonalds.
Just imagine how many jobs, self driving cars are going to end? AS tech gets better and faster more and more people will be dumped.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

A bit? LOL ))) That's a keystone principle of the Communist Theory. At least according to Karl Marx: work as much as you want, gain as much as you need.

Whoaa! Who talked about working.

If you work the salary comes on top of that provided sum.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

i don't want to speak for any other countries here but if we did something like that I don't think people wouldn't necessarily quit their jobs in hoards but one thing I guarantee would happen is a loaf of bread would jump to $20... and everyone would be worse off than they were because inflation would be through the roof.

If there is inflation because of this, it is one time inflation and your salaries will adjust accordingly. The real value for this provided sum is of course then smaller, unless it is inflation adjusted too.

But as your tax rate would rise almost certainly, your available income wouldn't rise that much and thus there is less inflation.

[aka123]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

You won't believe me, but it was done already in the USSR. No homeless and no hungry or uneducated people at all. On the other side, no very reach people too. Everyone has almost the same salary. It was called "уравниловка".

That Switzerland thing is completely different thing, as there is no same salaries and the one thing.. you can get the hell out of there if you want. You couldn't get out of Soviet utopia + it was eager to annex more citizens.

[Umbalabob]

2600$ is nothing for living in Switzerland, nobody would quit a job there. I live there and a flat in Zürich for 1 person is already 2000 $ and then you have a shithole :-)

[djroof]

Swiss is in Europe but outsite European economy... so can do anything wants... also is the only country in the world with no army...

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Didn't know there are so many commies at GFY ;)

[Klen]

Originally Posted by djroof

Swiss is in Europe but outsite European economy... so can do anything wants... also is the only country in the world with no army...

Lul wot?
Military of Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You must be thinking about costarica :
Military of Costa Rica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[editeur]

Nothing bad in this. They already pay a lot with all the benefits, welfare and what not and I bet the laws on the benefits are very complicated. So why not abolish all these corruption and errors-prone selective benefits and just give some basic money to everyone? Just enough to make people sure they coud afford a flat, basic food and some clothes no matter what happens with their jobs and enterprises. It might well be the case that the govt would spend less after that. And people with such support could risk more with their business and lives and do more things they would be afraid of without such cushion from the state.

Sure, the country should have responsible, very high quality human resources to do this, otherwise too many people will just relax and do nothing.

[editeur]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

You must be thinking about costarica :
Military of Costa Rica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or Iceland

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Communism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Didn't know there are so many commies at GFY ;)

I don't know that they are commies just staunch anti-capitalists.

[oppoten]

Originally Posted by TeenCat

it is nice that they have their own brains, and fucks the rest of the world, same with the schengen area, they opened their borders for a while, now you can imagine the flood of lazy not wanting to work people, they have strict rulez on borders again, whole europe is pissed, but why? i have been living there for few months year and fifteen years ago, and the difference is big, just because they made mistake and opened the borders for a while ... long live swiss!

I'm not anti-immigrant, but I have a feeling that Europe will come to regret mass immigration, and maybe even look to reverse it.

I do like this idea though. Government putting its people first (on the surface at least).

[SuckOnThis]

Originally Posted by oppoten

I'm not anti-immigrant, but I have a feeling that Europe will come to regret mass immigration, and maybe even look to reverse it.

I do like this idea though. Government putting its people first (on the surface at least).

Having spent time in both Zurich and Lucerne I can say the Swiss are not stupid people not to mention pretty fiscally conservative. I actually think its a brilliant idea, not only socially is it a good thing, but economically it's going to pump a ton of money into the economy which benefits everyone.