Any GFY Electricians?

[~Ray]

Hi,

I want to create a spark gap. Let's say between 2 nails. I would like to control the frequency of the spark from nail 1 to nail 2, as well as the volts and if possible, the amps. How can I do this? I hooked up a signal generator to a 30mm spark gap and it did nothing. I am lost.

[TobySwan]

If you take apart a clicky lighter, pull the spark bit out of it and tape it to the side of a plastic bottle, poke a little hole in the side for the spark wire to go through, then on the open end of the bottle, slam some PVC pipe in it..spray with an excessive ammount of flammable stuff and bang a potato in the end, click the sparky bit.

If your looking at the potato in the end of the tube, best not to click the sparky bit.

T.

[edgeprod]

What are the nails made of? Are you using something nicely conductive? Are you using the POINTS (not the heads)? Remember NOT to look at the spark (ouch) without a welding helmet, and that your nails will eventually melt ... so be careful. Also remember that you're creating O3, so do it outside, please.

Careful, man!

[MaDalton]

it's been nice knowing you

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

Hi,

I want to create a spark gap. Let's say between 2 nails. I would like to control the frequency of the spark from nail 1 to nail 2, as well as the volts and if possible, the amps. How can I do this? I hooked up a signal generator to a 30mm spark gap and it did nothing. I am lost.

how much voltage is the sg cranking out? I'd think you'd need 20,000 volts to spark across a 30mm gap, that's over an inch.

[~Ray]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

how much voltage is the sg cranking out? I'd think you'd need 20,000 volts to spark across a 30mm gap, that's over an inch.

my sg goes up to 10 volts. I only need small spark gap. 1/8th of an inch would be ok. What can I use in place of a signal generator? I want to be able to control the frequency of the spark as well as the volts.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

my sg goes up to 10 volts. I only need small spark gap. 1/8th of an inch would be ok. What can I use in place of a signal generator? I want to be able to control the frequency of the spark as well as the volts.

Yup, your sg isn't enough power to jump that gap

here's a voltage arc gap calculator that can maybe help, it shows 3000 volts only can jump a 0.119 gap!

Cirris Systems - High Voltage Arc Gap Calculator

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

my sg goes up to 10 volts. I only need small spark gap. 1/8th of an inch would be ok. What can I use in place of a signal generator? I want to be able to control the frequency of the spark as well as the volts.

totally guessing here, but I'm thinking a capacitor charged up via 12v car battery. You can get a charge in under a minute prolly, then discharge, so your frequency would be every 60 seconds prolly. jst be fucking super super SUPER careful with that cap!

[~Ray]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Yup, your sg isn't enough power to jump that gap

here's a voltage arc gap calculator that can maybe help, it shows 3000 volts only can jump a 0.119 gap!

Cirris Systems - High Voltage Arc Gap Calculator

thank you.

~Ray

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

thank you.

~Ray

hah, this is pretty cool, homemade capacitor for the spark gap

[~Ray]

if anyone else has any ideas, please post them here.

I want to control the frequency of the spark from one side to the other. A small spark gap is ok. I typo'd above. I have a 10mm spark gap induction coil. I can use anything, so let me know what you would use to create a spark gap, control the fequency and volts

[Tom.K]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

if anyone else has any ideas, please post them here.

I want to control the frequency of the spark from one side to the other. A small spark gap is ok. I typo'd above. I have a 10mm spark gap induction coil. I can use anything, so let me know what you would use to create a spark gap, control the fequency and volts

when is about frequency, things start to be little bit more complicated. you have 50 Hz (or 60 if you are in America or Japan) from your supply. or you have this thing:

Induction Coil, Box Form: 10mm spark gap

arc generator is working on high voltage so therefore you need transformer ("coils"). which is working only on AC so if you have DC input you need either inverter of some kind or in case of that device I put link above, there is high frequency switch which is cutting the supply to first coils so induction in secondary is possible. in case you can adjust speed of that switch (usually not), you can control frequency. otherwise, you need VFD (variable frequency drive) which is not so cheap - Variable-frequency drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia but with that you can control both frequency and voltage (depends on the model). controlling frequency is not simple and cheap as controlling the voltage

why do you want to control volts anyway? if you have too low voltage, thing will not work and if you have too high, you can burn secondary on transformer. you can control voltage on several ways. with controlling input voltage. if you have DC supply, you can buy some of those power supplies with changeable output from 1,5 to 12 V so you have controllable input (which will also result with output what you can calculate if you know coil data - number of coil turns for both coils - U2=U1N1/N2). otherwise you can control input voltage with some other more expensive DC sources with knob.

if you have AC input from home socket, you can control voltage with some resistors and make home made (just note that even 200V or 110V can, if not kill you, make you feel very nice. believe me, I had pleasure of enjoying that plenty times, from 50 to 690 V) controller

current depends on resistance and voltage. so if you put too high voltage, you can burn the coil. setting correct distance between anodes is also important. if they are too close, current will be high so you can also fuck up the coil. note that this is all happening on secondary so if you screw something, breaker or fuse on house wiring will not protect you!

HD transformers can be found in old CRT screens and TVs. there is 20 000 V and touching end of tube is not pleasant. as well as those arc generators who have 3000 V minimum

if you play with capacitors to make arc, remember that's more dangerous than transformers

hope some of this info will help... feel free to ask me. and as qualified electrical engineer, I should warn you not to play with your life

good luck

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

if anyone else has any ideas, please post them here.

I want to control the frequency of the spark from one side to the other. A small spark gap is ok. I typo'd above. I have a 10mm spark gap induction coil. I can use anything, so let me know what you would use to create a spark gap, control the fequency and volts

[~Ray]

Originally Posted by Tom.K

when is about frequency, things start to be little bit more complicated. you have 50 Hz (or 60 if you are in America or Japan) from your supply. or you have this thing:

Induction Coil, Box Form: 10mm spark gap

arc generator is working on high voltage so therefore you need transformer ("coils"). which is working only on AC so if you have DC input you need either inverter of some kind or in case of that device I put link above, there is high frequency switch which is cutting the supply to first coils so induction in secondary is possible. in case you can adjust speed of that switch (usually not), you can control frequency. otherwise, you need VFD (variable frequency drive) which is not so cheap - Variable-frequency drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia but with that you can control both frequency and voltage (depends on the model). controlling frequency is not simple and cheap as controlling the voltage

why do you want to control volts anyway? if you have too low voltage, thing will not work and if you have too high, you can burn secondary on transformer. you can control voltage on several ways. with controlling input voltage. if you have DC supply, you can buy some of those power supplies with changeable output from 1,5 to 12 V so you have controllable input (which will also result with output what you can calculate if you know coil data - number of coil turns for both coils - U2=U1N1/N2). otherwise you can control input voltage with some other more expensive DC sources with knob.

if you have AC input from home socket, you can control voltage with some resistors and make home made (just note that even 200V or 110V can, if not kill you, make you feel very nice. believe me, I had pleasure of enjoying that plenty times, from 50 to 690 V) controller

current depends on resistance and voltage. so if you put too high voltage, you can burn the coil. setting correct distance between anodes is also important. if they are too close, current will be high so you can also fuck up the coil. note that this is all happening on secondary so if you screw something, breaker or fuse on house wiring will not protect you!

HD transformers can be found in old CRT screens and TVs. there is 20 000 V and touching end of tube is not pleasant. as well as those arc generators who have 3000 V minimum

if you play with capacitors to make arc, remember that's more dangerous than transformers

hope some of this info will help... feel free to ask me. and as qualified electrical engineer, I should warn you not to play with your life

good luck

Thank you for the information. That is the 10mm spark induction box I have at home.

If I cannot control the frequency and voltage of a spark gap. Can I control the frequency of a tesla coil? Can I make it discharge into the air at whatever frequency I choose? I see some tesla coils playing music, so I know the frequency can be controlled, but, how low of Hz can you go before it stops discharging? Will a Tesla coil work @ a frequency of 1hz? 1 discharge into the air per second.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Tom.K

when is about frequency, things start to be little bit more complicated. you have 50 Hz (or 60 if you are in America or Japan) from your supply. or you have this thing:

Induction Coil, Box Form: 10mm spark gap

arc generator is working on high voltage so therefore you need transformer ("coils"). which is working only on AC so if you have DC input you need either inverter of some kind or in case of that device I put link above, there is high frequency switch which is cutting the supply to first coils so induction in secondary is possible. in case you can adjust speed of that switch (usually not), you can control frequency. otherwise, you need VFD (variable frequency drive) which is not so cheap - Variable-frequency drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia but with that you can control both frequency and voltage (depends on the model). controlling frequency is not simple and cheap as controlling the voltage

why do you want to control volts anyway? if you have too low voltage, thing will not work and if you have too high, you can burn secondary on transformer. you can control voltage on several ways. with controlling input voltage. if you have DC supply, you can buy some of those power supplies with changeable output from 1,5 to 12 V so you have controllable input (which will also result with output what you can calculate if you know coil data - number of coil turns for both coils - U2=U1N1/N2). otherwise you can control input voltage with some other more expensive DC sources with knob.

if you have AC input from home socket, you can control voltage with some resistors and make home made (just note that even 200V or 110V can, if not kill you, make you feel very nice. believe me, I had pleasure of enjoying that plenty times, from 50 to 690 V) controller

current depends on resistance and voltage. so if you put too high voltage, you can burn the coil. setting correct distance between anodes is also important. if they are too close, current will be high so you can also fuck up the coil. note that this is all happening on secondary so if you screw something, breaker or fuse on house wiring will not protect you!

HD transformers can be found in old CRT screens and TVs. there is 20 000 V and touching end of tube is not pleasant. as well as those arc generators who have 3000 V minimum

if you play with capacitors to make arc, remember that's more dangerous than transformers

hope some of this info will help... feel free to ask me. and as qualified electrical engineer, I should warn you not to play with your life

good luck

too bad I didnt know you before i rebuilt my flat - could have saved tons on the electrician

[L-Pink]

Which guy is you?


.

[Cherry7]

If you ask such questions you should avoid playing with electricity....

Human skin dry will be resistant to under 40 volts, but it is the power that will kill. so a car induction coil will produce thousands of volts but tiny amps or low power watts. But it will make you jump and can hurt you.

If you have a power source of over 40 volts and large power this can be fatal.

Low power Electric shocks can also cause heart failure if you have a weak heart.

Visit science museum.

[Tom.K]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

Thank you for the information. That is the 10mm spark induction box I have at home.

If I cannot control the frequency and voltage of a spark gap. Can I control the frequency of a tesla coil? Can I make it discharge into the air at whatever frequency I choose? I see some tesla coils playing music, so I know the frequency can be controlled, but, how low of Hz can you go before it stops discharging? Will a Tesla coil work @ a frequency of 1hz? 1 discharge into the air per second.

That what I wrote, was about input voltage and frequency. And I didn't say that you can't control it, just is not so simple, you need controller. Small frequency controllers, like those VFDs, you can buy for 100$. You need high frequency for tesla coils so you will need some kind of oscillator, actually power supply with high frequency. You can make it from MOSFETs and other cheap parts. Check here, this guy explains a lot:

High Frequency Solid State Tesla Coil
and this one explains how to control that with music: Musical Tesla Coils

here you have some info how tesla coil works: How a Tesla Coil Works | Science Brothers

if you want to design your own, you need to understand how that thing work (not only tesla coil, but from basics, how transformer works, how you control voltage, supply with transistors, why is there capacitor and what it does

it's pretty interesting, but if you don't have some electrical education, you will need some time to understand how that works. but if you just want to build some toy which will spark around, just follow some instruction on some of those sites which shows you how to do it

and keep on your mind, those things can kill you or burn you properly so keep your nose away (arc on face from 20 000 V is not pleasant) when is on and before touching, check 5 times

honestly, if you have spare time or you are bored, why you don't get drunk like normal people that experiments can kill you

[Tom.K]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

too bad I didnt know you before i rebuilt my flat - could have saved tons on the electrician

not with my drinking capacities... but get in touch when you get a house...

[~Ray]

thank you for the advice. It sounds like I need a dc supply connected to a vfd that has it's positive output wired to one nail and the other nail wired to the negative. The tips of the nails very close together. That should give me a spark gap that will allow me to control the frequency... right?

I just spent $103 on a vc2002 sg that I thought would work. I need to make sure before I buy a dc supply and a vfd... I have the nails.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Which guy is you?


.

oh wow.

damn.

[Tom.K]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

thank you for the advice. It sounds like I need a dc supply connected to a vfd that has it's positive output wired to one nail and the other nail wired to the negative. The tips of the nails very close together. That should give me a spark gap that will allow me to control the frequency... right?

I just spent $103 on a vc2002 sg that I thought would work. I need to make sure before I buy a dc supply and a vfd... I have the nails.

no...

see, you don't understand...

you don't need DC supply. you need frequency. so you need AC to get voltage transformed to high voltage. if you connect DC current to VFD, what you get? nothing. VFD changes frequency. and what is frequency of DC? 0. with tesla coil or whatever transformer, you need AC to get electricity converted (transformed) to other voltage. principle of the coil, whole magnetism and induction is that you have to have something what is moving to create magnetic flux (or whatever, I was not learning this on English...). either magnetic field (in transformers and motors) or moving parts (in generator). so in transformer, in primary you have AC at some frequency, magnetic field is oscillating within the core and there you get transformed voltage on secondary. in same frequency you have on primary.

DC was in game just for that toy I linked as that is designed like that. but you remember fast oscillating switch in that device? that was making frequency by cutting primary supply, although it was giving only upper part of the wave and it's squared (waveform of AC is sinusoidal and it's going equally on both sides, up and down), that is enough for rough device as is transformer

next... for making arc, you need high voltage. doesn't matter is AC or DC. high voltage DC will also make nice arc (and kill the rabbit). but we are using AC because it's easier and cheaper to get high voltage from low AC voltage through transformer.

so you understand now? a bit of theory

simple: if you want just arc between nails, find some old TV on garbage, take out HV transformer, connect secondary to nails, find correct distance (you can calculate everything taking in matter voltage and material use or start on some distance and simply get nails closer until you get arc). primary you connect to your house supply. this is very fast and efficient way to get yourself killed or your house burned down.

if you use vfd for changing frequency (and that's low frequency), you will just see your arc sparking slower or faster, nothing spectacular

check that sites I gave you for tesla coil, it's more interesting and you can build some amp with oscillator to play with

btw, that vc2002 what you are mentioning, is that this thing: Aidetek: New VC2002 Function Generator 5 LED display 0.2Hz~2MHz

that can't produce arc. it's for testing and calibrating

[~Ray]

Originally Posted by Tom.K

no...

see, you don't understand...

you don't need DC supply. you need frequency. so you need AC to get voltage transformed to high voltage. if you connect DC current to VFD, what you get? nothing. VFD changes frequency. and what is frequency of DC? 0. with tesla coil or whatever transformer, you need AC to get electricity converted (transformed) to other voltage. principle of the coil, whole magnetism and induction is that you have to have something what is moving to create magnetic flux (or whatever, I was not learning this on English...). either magnetic field (in transformers and motors) or moving parts (in generator). so in transformer, in primary you have AC at some frequency, magnetic field is oscillating within the core and there you get transformed voltage on secondary. in same frequency you have on primary.

DC was in game just for that toy I linked as that is designed like that. but you remember fast oscillating switch in that device? that was making frequency by cutting primary supply, although it was giving only upper part of the wave and it's squared (waveform of AC is sinusoidal and it's going equally on both sides, up and down), that is enough for rough device as is transformer

next... for making arc, you need high voltage. doesn't matter is AC or DC. high voltage DC will also make nice arc (and kill the rabbit). but we are using AC because it's easier and cheaper to get high voltage from low AC voltage through transformer.

so you understand now? a bit of theory

simple: if you want just arc between nails, find some old TV on garbage, take out HV transformer, connect secondary to nails, find correct distance (you can calculate everything taking in matter voltage and material use or start on some distance and simply get nails closer until you get arc). primary you connect to your house supply. this is very fast and efficient way to get yourself killed or your house burned down.

if you use vfd for changing frequency (and that's low frequency), you will just see your arc sparking slower or faster, nothing spectacular

check that sites I gave you for tesla coil, it's more interesting and you can build some amp with oscillator to play with

btw, that vc2002 what you are mentioning, is that this thing: Aidetek: New VC2002 Function Generator 5 LED display 0.2Hz~2MHz

that can't produce arc. it's for testing and calibrating

Thank you again for the advice. I think, in theory, I am almost there. I need a vfd connected to house supply electricity, an old TV transformer, an electrician to hook it up and 2 nails. Now I just need to be able to control the strength of the frequency.

Yes, that is the function generator I have. vc2002 , wasted $$$

[Paz]

Well I have a PhD in physics and I operated lots of high voltage instruments and I can tell you that you'll need about 30,000 volts assuming dry air and 30kv sparks will generate (soft) X-rays and take out your mains earth leakage circuit breaker unless you hold it closed by placing strong tape on it to prevent it closing.

Also be sure to unplug all your ESD sensitive equipment ie computers, TV's etc and you should probably ask your neighbours to do the same.

I miss those days.....

[DBS.US]

[Tom.K]

Originally Posted by ~Ray

Thank you again for the advice. I think, in theory, I am almost there. I need a vfd connected to house supply electricity, an old TV transformer, an electrician to hook it up and 2 nails. Now I just need to be able to control the strength of the frequency.

Yes, that is the function generator I have. vc2002 , wasted $$$

frequency doesn't have strength, I mean, you can call it that way. It's value. VFDs operates on small frequency, up to 50 (or 60) Hz. They are primarily used for controlling the speed of motors, to start them without stress and is going from 0 to maximum (50 or 60).

If you want to play with those sparks like in tesla coil, you need something with high frequency, few MHz.

and Paz's idea sounds interesting

[MaDalton]

i'm sure this thread triggered the NSA by now...

[Paz]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i'm sure this thread triggered the NSA by now...

And their mates in the UK....

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by DBS.US

That is what I thinking

[Dating Port]

Hey, I got a box full of Carbon Arc rods from the old fashioned Carbon Arc Movie Projectors. That'll create one hell of a spark!

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Tom.K

when is about frequency, things start to be little bit more complicated. you have 50 Hz (or 60 if you are in America or Japan) from your supply. or you have this thing:

Induction Coil, Box Form: 10mm spark gap

arc generator is working on high voltage so therefore you need transformer ("coils"). which is working only on AC so if you have DC input you need either inverter of some kind or in case of that device I put link above, there is high frequency switch which is cutting the supply to first coils so induction in secondary is possible. in case you can adjust speed of that switch (usually not), you can control frequency. otherwise, you need VFD (variable frequency drive) which is not so cheap - Variable-frequency drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia but with that you can control both frequency and voltage (depends on the model). controlling frequency is not simple and cheap as controlling the voltage

why do you want to control volts anyway? if you have too low voltage, thing will not work and if you have too high, you can burn secondary on transformer. you can control voltage on several ways. with controlling input voltage. if you have DC supply, you can buy some of those power supplies with changeable output from 1,5 to 12 V so you have controllable input (which will also result with output what you can calculate if you know coil data - number of coil turns for both coils - U2=U1N1/N2). otherwise you can control input voltage with some other more expensive DC sources with knob.

if you have AC input from home socket, you can control voltage with some resistors and make home made (just note that even 200V or 110V can, if not kill you, make you feel very nice. believe me, I had pleasure of enjoying that plenty times, from 50 to 690 V) controller

current depends on resistance and voltage. so if you put too high voltage, you can burn the coil. setting correct distance between anodes is also important. if they are too close, current will be high so you can also fuck up the coil. note that this is all happening on secondary so if you screw something, breaker or fuse on house wiring will not protect you!

HD transformers can be found in old CRT screens and TVs. there is 20 000 V and touching end of tube is not pleasant. as well as those arc generators who have 3000 V minimum

if you play with capacitors to make arc, remember that's more dangerous than transformers

hope some of this info will help... feel free to ask me. and as qualified electrical engineer, I should warn you not to play with your life

good luck

[JTC]

Okay, sparky

[2MuchMark]

Just what kind of porn are you making?

[~Ray]

spark emitted in the air, creates frequency. Point A
frequency emmited in the air is attracted to the surface Point B

I want to study the effects of various frequencies at varying strengths between point A and point B. Example: 20hz at 10v, 20v, 50v, etc... and note the different effects... if any.