News USA Snubbed Over New World Bank

[RummyBoy]

You may not have heard much about this but this is actually a big turn in terms of geopolitical events and positioning.

Its essentially that against the advice of the US, all major US allies have signed up for the China Infrastructure Bank (AIIB) which could be responsible for tens of trillions USD of major infra spending in Asia over the next decades as well as potentially replace both the ADB (Asian Development Bank) and IMF (International Monetary Fund). It's also a big step towards the RMB moving towards "potentially" contention for being the global reserve currency in the future.

The US has tried to prevent others joining it and China was originally going into this on its own. However, right now, it looks like the entire world has joined with China. More about what this thing is:







Since then a whole host of other countries have joined....

More countries say to join China-backed AIIB investment bank

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...iib-membership

[dyna mo]

Thanks Obama!

[pimpmaster9000]

why should US currency be the worlds reserve currency? the USA is only 5% of the worlds population and gets to export its inflation to others and print the fuck out of its currency and call this "profit"...there is a reason the world went with china and not the USA on this one and its because nobody is stupid any more...

cant wait...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

why should US currency be the worlds reserve currency? the USA is only 5% of the worlds population and gets to export its inflation to others and print the fuck out of its currency and call this "profit"...there is a reason the world went with china and not the USA on this one and its because nobody is stupid any more...

cant wait...

this isn't about US currency. it's about maintaining US hegemony.

[dyna mo]

what's most bizarre about this is BO/USA trying to keep China isolated by trying to get allies to not join the aiib, then at the last minute BO/USA decide to join it also, all while BO/USA negotiates a nuke deal to bring Iran into the nuclear circle.

China bank bad, iran nukes good.

thanks Obama!

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

this isn't about US currency. it's about maintaining US hegemony.

the bombs enforce the currency that enforces the hegemony...

[Horatio Caine]

Somewhere in 4th unhappiest country in the world little boy named Zlotan got moist and aroused reading these news.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

the bombs enforce the currency that enforces the hegemony...

welcome to Earth.

[Rochard]

I know China is a huge economic base and will eclipse the US at some point, but I just find it hard to take them seriously.

[sandman!]

no real shock

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I know China is a huge economic base and will eclipse the US at some point, but I just find it hard to take them seriously.

Well you probably wouldn't if you've never been there. Yet you're probably putting some money in their pocket every month...... look everything you own (especially electricals) or buy in walmart.

I just had a look on my desk. The stapler, the cellotape, a pen, my laptop, my printer, my mouse, my modem, my paper binder, my highlighter pen, my mouse mat - all made in China. In fact, almost every thing apart my mobile phone is made in China.

And my mobile phone is a total embarasment which is why its made in Vietnam...

Taiwan to apply to join China-backed AIIB investment bank | Reuters

​Beijing calling: Australia & Denmark defy US by applying to join China-led bank — RT Business

[klinton]

priceless, as always from dynamo.
ride on cowboy. yyyehaw

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Thanks Obama!

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Well you probably wouldn't if you've never been there. Yet you're probably putting some money in their pocket every month...... look everything you own (especially electricals).

I just had a look on my desk. The stapler, the cellotape, a pen, my laptop, my printer, my mouse, my modem, my paper binder, my highlighter pen, my mouse mat - all made in China. In fact, almost every thing apart my mobile phone is made in China.

And my mobile phone is a total embarasment which is why its made in Vietnam...

Taiwan to apply to join China-backed AIIB investment bank | Reuters

?Beijing calling: Australia & Denmark defy US by applying to join China-led bank ? RT Business

i bought some made in America shit the other day, i was stoked!

[klinton]

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I know China is a huge economic base and will eclipse the US at some point, but I just find it hard to take them seriously.

Can i ask why that is? I go to China every couple months, and the changes and the level of development there is something i have never seen in Canada or the USA.

They get shit done.

[dyna mo]

it's too bad USA is mired down in failed foreign policy. this government needs to realize that empowering CHina on this is a good thing.

not that any country has successful foreign policy either.

[XXXBizXXX]

Deleted .......

[RummyBoy]

Jim O'Neill (the GS guy that coined the acronym BRICs):

US stance against China-led bank AIIB embarrassing: Former Goldmans exec - United States News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

[Captain Kawaii]

Would be funny if US wants to join and is told, "Just fill out the app and we'll get back to you."

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Would be funny if US wants to join and is told, "Just fill out the app and we'll get back to you."

They will join. Having said that, the guy in that third video I posted seems to think the US may not be able to join... for now, its just an embarrassment:

China's new development bank is becoming a massive embarrassment for Obama | Business Insider India

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

They will join. Having said that, the guy in that third video I posted seems to think the US may not be able to join... for now, its just an embarrassment:

China's new development bank is becoming a massive embarrassment for Obama | Business Insider India

Even if US can join they will be held at arms length for quite some time. One of the many purposes of this bank is to move away from US and their pals on Wall Street control over them. I remember watching a news program in 2008, 2009 that interviewed Asian and ME bankers and developers who all said they wanted a commercial entity that would not be controlled or manipulated by the US, ie Wall Street.

Did you see the news about China building land made islands in the South China sea in order to develop and maintain physical control? That's determination. It might cost them a war and loss of life but dammit they're gonna do it anyway.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

I remember watching a news program in 2008, 2009 that interviewed Asian and ME bankers and developers who all said they wanted a commercial entity that would not be controlled or manipulated by the US, ie Wall Street

Of course its important but so is trade settlement. At the moment any trade settled in USD is recorded in the US and so there is limited control (China has to follow all the US rules) and no financial privacy for China either which is something they care about a lot.

Also, they positioned the timing of this to co-incide with their request for a big inclusion in the SDR (Special Drawing Rights) which a nerdy term for the IMF currency:

China knocking on door of IMF's major league, US wavers - Yahoo Finance

They want their own cake but they're happy to eat someone elses too. Since the IMF is basically US controlled, I think they'll probably wait to see if the RMB gets included properly in the SDR before they look at the US application to join the AIIB....

[JJ Gold]

They are the Zoe_Zoebaboe of banks.

[Harmon]

I saw Alex Jones and felt the need to not click anything in this thread.

[Bladewire]

Another "we hate the USA" thread courtest the same 3 haters: rummyboy, crucifissio, horatio caine

[Harmon]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Another "we hate the USA" thread courtest the same 3 haters: rummyboy, crucifissio, horatio caine

Horatio is a cool mother fucker, but I am starting to see the pattern myself...

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Another "we hate the USA" thread courtest the same 3 haters: rummyboy, crucifissio, horatio caine

That's a misinterpretation then because I'm defo not a US hater. However, I do think there should be more balance in the world rather than just the US which seems to control foreign policy for most of the world. And if it reduces the risk of war, that too is a good thing.

The main point is that if emerging markets and Asia (largely China) are now 40% of global growth, they really should have a bigger say in global economics and geopolitics and its long overdue. It's also worth adding that it won't change much for the USA.

[spads]

It's amazing that China has been able to pass off building massive cities that no one can afford to live in as "economic growth". Dunno but it seems like a bubble to me

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by spads

It's amazing that China has been able to pass off building massive cities that no one can afford to live in as "economic growth". Dunno but it seems like a bubble to me

It is a massive bubble....... and it's popping as we speak but what's that got to do with this new bank? It's a pretty historic moment - Former US Treasury Secretary, Larry Summers, made a big statement about it earlier today:

Larry Summers:haThe Past MonthhaMay Go Down as ahaTurning Point for U.S. Economic Power - Yahoo Finance

[Paul]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

It is a massive bubble....... and it's popping as we speak but what's that got to do with this new bank? It's a pretty historic moment - Former US Treasury Secretary, Larry Summers, made a big statement about it earlier today:

Larry Summers:haThe Past MonthhaMay Go Down as ahaTurning Point for U.S. Economic Power - Yahoo Finance

See if you can find this BBC program

BBC Two - This World, How China Fooled the World - with Robert Peston

Here are the cliff notes

China will have replicated the entire US commercial banking sector in the span of half a decade.

China's boom is ending, it's probably around 2004 - 2005 in comparison to our 2007/08 crash

A debt explosion that dwarfs what we've experienced in the West

Most of the money for China's growth since 2007/08 was borrowed from banks which was the start of their credit orgy.

Shadowing banking system emerged and took over what the state owned banks where lending,

Off balance sheet entities where able to go to the banks, borrow copiousus amounts of money so that they built themselves up into enormous borrowing entities which is all very similar to our own off balance sheet vehicles

So lending isn't happening through the local state owned banks and the Chinese government has lost control of lending, the problem is a huge porportion of China's debts are hidden

In some Chinese cities house prices are still rising up to 20% per year and their housing bubble is just as bad if not worse than our own in the west.

So the rich are buying the high priced homes and keeping them empty as investments, massive oversupply of property and estimates are around 15% of all Chinese property are empty

Whole thing boils down to corruption and why the government have been unable to stop it, the building boom has made 1000s of local officials very rich, so they allow project after project, local officials oppriate the land and then sell it on to local developers and big backhanders are involved.

In 2008 the chinese banking sector was $10 trillion in size now (2014) it's around $24 - $25 trillion that increase is equivalent to the size of the entire US commercial banking sector which took more than a 100 years to build so that will mean China will have replicated the entire US system inside half a decade.

China's total indebtedness is around twice it's GDP up from 125% just 5 years ago, there is no example in history of that level of debt explosion not leading to a collapse

China has a massive challenge trying to transform into a consumer lead economy due to their history of poverty and a lack of a welfare state, due to this the average Chinese citizen saves around 1/3rd of their income compared to 1/20th in the west.

In 2014 credit growth is still twice as fast as GDP growth, mathematically there is no way to grow out of this problem when credit is twice the size of the economy and growing twice as fast.

George Magnus, Former Chief Economist, UBS Bank

"I don't think anyone really knows how much longer this credit genie can stay outside the bottle, my own view is that China in 2014 is maybe where the west was in 2005 - 2006, it's not an imminent danger of a financial implosion but it's drawing nearer all the time"

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Paul

Here are the cliff notes

Robert Peston is great ever since the financial crisis and his blog is superb, as well as he is one of the best in BBC reporting but tell me something new? Everyone knows China is in a massive bubble... what is news about this?

Sooner or later it pops and China will have a meltdown.... which analysts seem to think China can deal with (due to $4 Trillion USD in FX reserves). Even otherwise, the US experienced the worst depression in history as it was in the ascendant and everyone thought the US was finished but that did not prevent it from continuing a historic rise after the world wars.

But I mean, what does that have to do with the AIIB?

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by Paul

See if you can find this BBC program

BBC Two - This World, How China Fooled the World - with Robert Peston

Here are the cliff notes

Most of the countries signing up are debtors in need of loans. I think Preston and Magnus are dead on correct.

Maybe this AIIB and China's impending collapse are a way for the West to get back some of its currency and debt China is holding on to. I think Japan is staying out of it because they know the financial bomb is ticking. Of course, so is Japan's. lol.

Sorry off topic a little. Anyone following the row going on in Okinawa about the moving of a US military base? Governor got jacked by Tokyo and plans moving forward again. First thing the little Okinawa prick does is get on a plane for Beijing.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Most of the countries signing up are debtors in need of loans. I think Preston and Magnus are dead on correct.

Maybe this AIIB and China's impending collapse are a way for the West to get back some of its currency and debt China is holding on to. I think Japan is staying out of it because they know the financial bomb is ticking. Of course, so is Japan's.

China is a creditor nation (the largest in the world) and not a debtor nation i.e. the debt is not sovereign debt (at this stage). Japan, along with the US, is one of the largest debtor nations in the world.

The yen is being printed to extremes - by the way, are you experiencing any inflation over there yet? How are people handling the yen devaluation?

The AIIB is more about a move away from US unilateralism, the IMF, the ADB and the US dollar as a reserve currency. China is developing a competitor to SWIFT, acquiring gold as well as gradually internationalizing the RMB with swap arrangements around the world in moves that may eventually lead to the RMB or some alternative becoming the reserve currency.

It just means is that 15 to 20 years from now, it "might" be more difficult for the US to impose sanctions on countries which are operating trade via the new system, such as Russia, or impose fines against other country institutions as happened with the big fine on BNP Paribas in France which they objected to and which is part of the reason they jumped on board so fast.

It doesn't mean Russia can ignore the other countries or financial institutions can run riot, it just means that it goes to the members of the AIIB and under a new system China is dominant and probably has the final word. These are just the first steps but it takes a very long time to go from being a trade currency to being a reserve currency.

[Captain Kawaii]

I meant the countries joining China being debtor nations. Not China.
End of day, China will take financial control away from US. There will be many many smiles around the world. Of course, China may not be in much of a position to capitalize on it if TSHTF there.

Unemployment is flat or almost @ around 3.5%. Problem is there are lot more McJobs here than there used to be...so not much real progress. Prices are holding so far.

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

China is a creditor nation (the largest in the world) and not a debtor nation i.e. the debt is not sovereign debt (at this stage). Japan, along with the US, is one of the largest debtor nations in the world.

The yen is being printed to extremes - by the way, are you experiencing any inflation over there yet? How are people handling the yen devaluation?

The AIIB is more about a move away from US unilateralism, the IMF, the ADB and the US dollar as a reserve currency. China is developing a competitor to SWIFT, acquiring gold as well as gradually internationalizing the RMB with swap arrangements around the world in moves that may eventually lead to the RMB or some alternative becoming the reserve currency.

It just means is that 15 to 20 years from now, it "might" be more difficult for the US to impose sanctions on countries which are operating trade via the new system, such as Russia, or impose fines against other country institutions as happened with the big fine on BNP Paribas in France which they objected to and which is part of the reason they jumped on board so fast.

It doesn't mean Russia can ignore the other countries or financial institutions can run riot, it just means that it goes to the members of the AIIB and under a new system China is dominant and probably has the final word. These are just the first steps but it takes a very long time to go from being a trade currency to being a reserve currency.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Robert Peston is great ever since the financial crisis and his blog is superb, as well as he is one of the best in BBC reporting but tell me something new? Everyone knows China is in a massive bubble... what is news about this?

Sooner or later it pops and China will have a meltdown.... which analysts seem to think China can deal with (due to $4 Trillion USD in FX reserves). Even otherwise, the US experienced the worst depression in history as it was in the ascendant and everyone thought the US was finished but that did not prevent it from continuing a historic rise after the world wars.

But I mean, what does that have to do with the AIIB?

If China's recession/potential meltdown is a lot worse than what we've experienced in the west since 07/08 then any agreements made for the AIIB may be reneged upon if things get really bad. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out over the next decade or two.

[nico-t]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Can i ask why that is?

Short answer: Because the guy is oblivious.

[Horatio Caine]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Another "we hate the USA" thread courtest the same 3 haters: rummyboy, crucifissio, horatio caine

I think you're confusing me with cyber seo idiot.

[RummyBoy]

Latest update on the AIIB..... World Bank and ADB are supporting it:

How to stop worrying and love the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank - The Washington Post

I was going to post an excerpt from the above link but decided not to in order to protect some sensitivities...

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Latest update on the AIIB..... World Bank and ADB are supporting it:

How to stop worrying and love the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank - The Washington Post

I was going to post an excerpt from the above link but decided not to in order to protect some sensitivities...

Love the title. I am glad more and more countries are embracing the AIIB. I think American investors will find a way to participate with or without the US gov.

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Captain Kawaii

Unemployment is flat or almost @ around 3.5%. Problem is there are lot more McJobs here than there used to be...so not much real progress. Prices are holding so far.

If I visit Japan this year would I feel everything is a lot cheaper if I bring USDs? Also, are you holding other currencies to avoid from the yen... you gotta protect yourself from all these money printing games.

Hasn't there been any uproar in Japan over the devaluation?

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Another "we hate the USA" thread courtest the same 3 haters: rummyboy, crucifissio, horatio caine

go drop a bomb you american

oh and horatio is a 'murican LOL he is on your side and approves the terrorism and "freedoms"

[huey]

Seems people already forget Wall street basically collapsed the entire US banking system 5 years ago. If you believed in true capitalism they should have failed but got bailed out.

If I'm China or any other country why would you want to deal with those fucks?

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by huey

If I'm China or any other country why would you want to deal with those fucks?

The USA cannot hijack this bank in any way (its China's baby). However, having the USA on board is important because they will want the USA's vote on substantive issues to make the system work well.

China's Asia Infrastructure Investment Bank gambit has U.S. leaders on edge

From the above:

"Banking analyst Dick Bove has joined the chorus of those worried about what the rise of the AIIB might portend.

The vice president of equity research at Rafferty Capital Markets called it "a major defeat for the United States" that, save for Japan, "every other major ... ally from Britain to Israel to Australia has joined. These countries joined despite the expressed wish of the United States that they not do so."

Many analyses of the AIIB's rise point out the institution's development came largely because the U.S. helped block reforms to the IMF that would have given China more influence.

Bove, too, believes the U.S. is "overplaying" its global influence.

"The result of its actions both internally and externally has been the creation of an entity that can compete with the IMF and World Bank internationally; an entity controlled by a country that is seeking to reduce the United States hold on the world financial markets," he said in a report for clients. "The creation of the AIIB also demonstrates clearly that not only are the U.S. enemies but also its biggest allies fed up with the United States demands and tactics in the financial world. This is incredibly dangerous to this country's standing internationally in an area where it counts — finance and the dollar."

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In the above I think they are mainly talking about things like these attacks on foreign institutions like BNP Paribas and Commerzbank and legislations like the TIEAs and FATCA and so on. These are hugely onerous legislations and it looks like everyone wants to cut loose of them by shifting to a new system that isn't US controlled.

[dyna mo]

still scratching my head re: why BO tried to squash the aiib. 1, it's a good thing for all nations, including and perhaps especially for USA. 2, it brings china into a positive working agreement with other nations, including the USA and 3, it was a huge risk and very prideful to try and attempt to kill the bank, especially in light of the momentum the effort had garnered. all on top of my previous concern that BO's attempting to exclude China from this while he's trying to include Iran on nuclear.