Business PaySite Question ???

[TrashyContent]

OK so here's a question that will get all sorts of sarcastic responses I am sure... but I am still going to ask it...

So I started with paysites back in about 2002/2003... every year the revenues from those sites got less and less... even though I got more and more sites... it made me cry... well not literally...

In about 2007 I embarked on my first partnership, after two years it didn't pan out... I then embarked on my second partnership, which was like out of the frying pan into the fire...

Now both these companies we're huge players... ballers even ! So either we were not seeing the money coming in, or maybe our sites we're just shit ?! Who knows...

I should point out that all our sites we're pretty much solo girl sites... also we're based in the UK, so they were not the US girl next doors... but I would argue they we're still damn cute...

So finally after the back story, is the question...

Is it worth doing pay sites any more ? Can you make money, or do you need to be part of a secret bro club, with a secret hand shake ? And know all the dark secrets on how to make bank ?

The reason I ask is for the last few years I have been shooting a bunch of content for a bunch of more niche sites (and a few new solo ones) I think the niche ones have some potential, with a JOI site, a Pantyhose site, a Restrained Teens site, a Geek site, and lastly a site based on me called FatManFuck I am sure you can work out the reference to my large belly and me fucking hot girls...

Anyways not looking for drama just some opinions, and constructive critism is welcome

[Sly]

You either have issues with marketing or your sites truly do suck. Bad content can still sell, so my bets are on marketing. If you can't get a grip on marketing, starting new sites makes no sense. Focus on your content instead.

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by Sly

You either have issues with marketing or your sites truly do suck. Bad content can still sell, so my bets are on marketing. If you can't get a grip on marketing, starting new sites makes no sense. Focus on your content instead.

Hey Sly...

Well that's why we tried the partner route... we partnered with some pretty big players, even though in reflection their reputation was very sketchy to put it mildly !

We are weighing up some pros and cons in regards to the new content and what would be best to do with it... obviously starting a new network of sites would definitely incur plenty of cost from site design to CMS, not to mention time...

Decisions Decisions lol...

[myleene]

Maybe:
1) You didn't get the percentage you deserved from your partnership
2) You're overexpecting your potential ROI percentage (it's easier to do 20k profit with a 40k investment then with a 20k)
3) You're not getting full potential as the more website you get, the thinner your websites look
4) You didn't put enough money in marketing
5) You didn't optimize your expenses vs your profit


One thing is sure, the more areas you cover yourself or from strong and cost-effective partnerships, the better your odds of profit are.

What areas do you cover?

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Sly

You either have issues with marketing or your sites truly do suck. Bad content can still sell, so my bets are on marketing. If you can't get a grip on marketing, starting new sites makes no sense. Focus on your content instead.

Sly is an extremely wise man so I would never contradict him. So I will just add to his term 'marketing' to say....it's all about the traffic.

Can Tours be tweaked/improved? Yes. Can the sales funnel/marketing approach be improved upon? Yes. Can you A-B test endlessly until you get a good ROI? Yes, in theory. (Are people who ask themselves questions then answer them annoying as fuck? Yes. Sorry.)

Seriously now, it's ALL about the traffic. If you had a conversion problem (not knowing what to do with said traffic) then yes, it's about the marketing sucking. But it sounds like your partners did a shitty job of sending enough traffic to your sites to make it profitable for you.

So to answer your question (is it 'worth it?'): Yes - IF you can get enough traffic to make sales. Today a 1:1000 ratio is decent for a paysite. But you can also monetize via clips4sale, licensing and other ways.

Hope that helps.

[EddyTheDog]

Originally Posted by TrashyContent

Hey Sly...

Well that's why we tried the partner route... we partnered with some pretty big players, even though in reflection their reputation was very sketchy to put it mildly !

We are weighing up some pros and cons in regards to the new content and what would be best to do with it... obviously starting a new network of sites would definitely incur plenty of cost from site design to CMS, not to mention time...

Decisions Decisions lol...

I expect I could name most of the 'sketchy' guys that promised you riches...

Start again and learn from GFY, don't expect it to hand you over money though.....

[Screwed Up]

Some good answers in this thread so far.

So let's see the sites, no?...
Do you sell the same content on trashycontent or is that separate?

[Screwed Up]

double post

[DVTimes]

I think your content looks good.

I have seen pics you posted. They look great.

Do you shoot vid too?

[myleene]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I think your content looks good.

I have seen pics you posted. They look great.

Do you shoot vid too?

Yes he does.

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by myleene

Yes he does.

Really encouraged by the positive feed back and constructive comments so far...

OK so in the past, the two partnerships mentioned... in general the content was separate from what we sell through Trashy Content and what was on the sites... some was used as filler content, probably about 10%... but in general the content was exclusive to the sites...

The new stuff we've been shooting for the last 24-36 months (and banking) is totally exclusive to the sites... There are however no sites to look at right now, as we haven't committed to creating our own (new) network...

However we have purchased domain names for the proposed sites... so far we have...

FatManFuck.com a site where I (yes the fat bald guy) shoot Gonzo/POV content, I seem to be getting quite the fan base, I guess some guys like to see a very average older guy get the hot pussy for a change !

JOIAcademy.com a site where college girls (wearing uniforms) give JOI to guys

SniffMyPantyhose.com girls in pantyhose doing very naughty things

RestrainedTeens.com teen girls in bondage gear

GeekSluts.com geek girls playing on playstation/xbox and of course with themselves

SmashThatPussy.com girls abusing themselves with sex machines and big toys

We also have content to do around 5-6 solo sites, but think of these sites more as filler sites...

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by TrashyContent

OK so here's a question that will get all sorts of sarcastic responses I am sure... but I am still going to ask it...

So I started with paysites back in about 2002/2003... every year the revenues from those sites got less and less... even though I got more and more sites... it made me cry... well not literally...

Anyways not looking for drama just some opinions, and constructive critism is welcome

I'm finding life very difficult at the moment, only covering overheads, selling my clips on other sites to make bank. Like, wtf! I have live shows daily, new content weekly, HD, streaming, exclusive hardcore content that makes life strenuous while making the movies & photoshoots, knowing that I have to bring money in to live

I think it's hard in any career you're in at the moment. You have to work hard if you want to play hard

Always welcomed to mail Gary or I, we can chat regarding new content in new locations abroad, as there's plenty of hot ladies where I live & we've so many ideas for new content, but with little income & only a good life, we find it hard to put the ideas into business.

All the best with your sites, we like your content & love your quality

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

I'm finding life very difficult at the moment, only covering overheads, selling my clips on other sites to make bank. Like, wtf! I have live shows daily, new content weekly, HD, streaming, exclusive hardcore content that makes life strenuous while making the movies & photoshoots, knowing that I have to bring money in to live

I think it's hard in any career you're in at the moment. You have to work hard if you want to play hard

Always welcomed to mail Gary or I, we can chat regarding new content in new locations abroad, as there's plenty of hot ladies where I live & we've so many ideas for new content, but with little income & only a good life, we find it hard to put the ideas into business.

All the best with your sites, we like your content & love your quality

I have thought about shooting abroad, especially to tap into a different talent pool and also better weather... but the logistics and cost of it all as put us off... especially as we've all stated when times are getting harder, and profit margins smaller... that's not to say at some point we wont take the plunge...

We are happy with the new content we've been shooting, and feel the more niche end stuff might sell better than the Vanilla solo stuff we've shot to date... I guess only time will tell...

I guess we have three choices of what we can do with the new content, and I guess each as some pros and cons attached to them...

1. Launch our own new network of paysites.

2. Find another partner to run the new network of paysites.

3. Sell the content outright to someone to use as a new network of paysites or add to an existing network.

[Va2k]

Sly summed it up, I would like to add my two cents too. I know what sells good in my area, which is fetish, but micro fetish websites do even better. If you can go a step further and do a micro micro MICRO niche site. Then you will see what I mean. But you can have the best content the best looking sites everything, but without what sly and others have said about getting your sites out there, they will fail.

Tom

[Va2k]

Errr something wrong with the board, should of copied and pasted the error code don't know why my post posted twice.

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by Va2k

Sly summed it up, I would like to add my two cents too. I know what sells good in my area, which is fetish, but micro fetish websites do even better. If you can go a step further and do a micro micro MICRO niche site. Then you will see what I mean. But you can have the best content the best looking sites everything, but without what sly and others have said about getting your sites out there, they will fail.

Tom

Well as I said, that's why we went down the partner route... in the hope that an established big player would be able to market the sites better... alas that didn't really work out Guess we need to learn from that...

[DVTimes]

One thought is to rather than do lots of sites, just put them into 1.

I have now just Splash | Bhala Sada rather than the 7 sites I used to have. All content in one place. I find sales have increased.

[NoWhErE]

Don't rely on a partner to sell your sites for you. If they can buy content and make 100% of the revenue on their efforts, they'll be more motivated than doing the same amount of work for only 50% (more or less) of the income.


Learn how to market your own sites first, then find partners to bring you to new levels, but if you rely on someone else to bring in the money, you're in for a bad time.

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

Don't rely on a partner to sell your sites for you. If they can buy content and make 100% of the revenue on their efforts, they'll be more motivated than doing the same amount of work for only 50% (more or less) of the income.


Learn how to market your own sites first, then find partners to bring you to new levels, but if you rely on someone else to bring in the money, you're in for a bad time.

That totally makes sense, and to a degree I think that's what happened in the past... as I said we need to learn from our mistakes...

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

One thought is to rather than do lots of sites, just put them into 1.

I have now just Splash | Bhala Sada rather than the 7 sites I used to have. All content in one place. I find sales have increased.

We've always covered that base anyways with a Multi Pass site within the group of sites that offered access to them all anyways... never really saw any big attraction to it funny enough...

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by TrashyContent

We've always covered that base anyways with a Multi Pass site within the group of sites that offered access to them all anyways... never really saw any big attraction to it funny enough...

Sites such as faketaxi shows sales can be made. In fact so good was the site it got sold on.

But they also got great publicity.

My advise to anyone is go outside for a walk. Come back after an hour and forget the last 15 years of what went on, on the net. Look at things from today's world.

Most webmasters are having problems as they are doing things like it was 2005 not 2015.

The key is to look at things fresh.

Think outside the box.

[Colmike9]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Sites such as faketaxi shows sales can be made. In fact so good was the site it got sold on.

Also go back and read Ruseful's posts on here, he gave away a ton of great info about running paysites and knows what he's talking about.

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

rather than the 7 sites I used to have. All content in one place. I find sales have increased.

You had no reason for different sites, all your content is amateur of the same niche.

With my 6 niche partnership sites, pleasureville, exclusivedogging, mygloryholeconfessions & so on. If I was to have all the content on one site without the different tours. It could become difficult to show all the different movies I've filmed for my members.

Although, moving everything to one site, does seem logical & easier to work with.

What do others think to one site or multi niche sites, are they needed, or would it be viable to have dogging or gloryhole content on one main site, maybe still on separate tour pages?

[faxxaff]

I have seen many cases where partnerships did not work out because publishers just don't care about the success of one site. They care about the benefit of their network and upsells more than about anything else.

I know of 3 guys that I adviced to leave their partnerships and create their own projects. Took them time to learn, but in the end they all did very well on their own.

Another field to expand content production to would be marketing. Produce images that are used for ads. One image can be worth tens of thousands of Dollars if shot right. Of course it's difficult to find buyers, but hey, it is worth it imho.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

You had no reason for different sites, all your content is amateur of the same niche.

With my 6 niche partnership sites, pleasureville, exclusivedogging, mygloryholeconfessions & so on. If I was to have all the content on one site without the different tours. It could become difficult to show all the different movies I've filmed for my members.

Although, moving everything to one site, does seem logical & easier to work with.

What do others think to one site or multi niche sites, are they needed, or would it be viable to have dogging or gloryhole content on one main site, maybe still on separate tour pages?

You just posted saying your sites do not sell.

So no need to give me advice as my site sells.

[DVTimes]

One thing that seems clear is fetish sells.

Porn data: visualising fetish space | Wouj Webmaster Site
The Fetish Market | Wouj Webmaster Site
What is the deal with ?whisper porn?? Science finally figures it out | Wouj Webmaster Site
The social society of sex | Wouj Webmaster Site
Micro Niche | Wouj Webmaster Site

If you find a fetish that's not been done or hardly done then chances are even if the site sucks it will = sales.

[DVTimes]

By the way as your in the UK, I tell you what I find sells, and that's anything outside in the UK.

Shoot a model in a town center. Ideally with a few builders next to her. And it will sell.

To be honest while Gary has gone to shoot in Spain and now pretends to be Nat, he is foolish in that its just not going to have the same interest as if he was shooting in the UK. In truth is Gary was not such a plonka I could with ease make a few changes to his site, tell him what to shoot and where and a few other tips and he would be making a lot of £££.

Bit my advise to you TrashyContent is to go out in Hull or some chav area and shoot. I can sell sites like that all day. People I find are less interested in the studio stuff (its been done to death).

In fact TrashyContent if you are near Yorkshire I would be happy to find you locations for shoots.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

You had no reason for different sites, all your content is amateur of the same niche.

With my 6 niche partnership sites, pleasureville, exclusivedogging, mygloryholeconfessions & so on. If I was to have all the content on one site without the different tours. It could become difficult to show all the different movies I've filmed for my members.

Although, moving everything to one site, does seem logical & easier to work with.

What do others think to one site or multi niche sites, are they needed, or would it be viable to have dogging or gloryhole content on one main site, maybe still on separate tour pages?

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

I'm finding life very difficult at the moment, only covering overheads, selling my clips on other sites to make bank. Like, wtf! I have live shows daily, new content weekly, HD, streaming, exclusive hardcore content that makes life strenuous while making the movies & photoshoots, knowing that I have to bring money in to live

I will give you a tip Gary, that I know you will ignore.

Its a rule not for just you or even porn, its a rule for any business, and its a hard one.

When you find like you are your not making money from your site(s). STOP.

Not stop as in give up. But change what you are doing.

Its like running a shop that makes a loss each month. Many just carry on hoping things will get better (it never does).

So you have to stop and admit things are not going well. You then need to change things.

It may be the look of your site or what your shooting, or where your shooting and so on.....

I can see some clear faults with your sites and content. And many of these have been pointed out to you from when you started. But you chose to ignore the advise.

In truth if you changed things you could make £££ but to be honest I do not expect you will make any changes as you have over the years always said you were correct.

One of your big faults is you pretending to be Nat when we know your Gary. I have spoken to a lot of people over the years who promote sites and many recently have said they do not promote your sites due to you pretending to be Nat as all they think is your some how a bit dodgy. Its no skin of my nose Gary and you are free to pretend your Nat as long as you wish, but just be aware that it puts people off from promoting your sites.

Anyway. I post this as advise. I expect you will ignore it and continue to spam the site with pics from your site that you claim does not sell (not sure anyone would now promote your sites knowing they do not sell).

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I expect you will ignore it and continue to spam the site with pics from your site that you claim does not sell (not sure anyone would now promote your sites knowing they do not sell).

Especially on a site where affiliates gather, affiliates who could promote your site but now won't since he admits it does not sell.

Savvy businessman, eh?

[TrashyContent]

That went well... my thread turned into some kind of slanging match

[cybermike]

Launch the joi site and just go slow with it..or just sell me a copy of the content at a nice discount

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by cybermike

Launch the joi site and just go slow with it..or just sell me a copy of the content at a nice discount

You and discounts !

[Va2k]

Originally Posted by TrashyContent

You and discounts !

Hey meant to ask do you do anything other then solo girls? Like fetish type of things feet, bdsm etc. Or hardcore b/g bbb/g etc

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Especially on a site where affiliates gather, affiliates who could promote your site but now won't since he admits it does not sell.

Savvy businessman, eh?

I know.

Head in hands time.

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by Va2k

Hey meant to ask do you do anything other then solo girls? Like fetish type of things feet, bdsm etc. Or hardcore b/g bbb/g etc

Nope it's all been solo to date... either hard solo with toys, or playboy nude... we did shoot a little girl girl, but nothing really to mention...

Other stuff more niche we've shot of a custom (exclusive) basis...

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

You just posted saying your sites do not sell.

So no need to give me advice as my site sells.

oh, please post proof

& correct me if I'm wrong, but at no point did I say my sites do not sell, merely I am struggling with server fees & all other costs. However, I would always only want my own site & server

[TrashyContent]

Can you two start a new thread and carry you grievances on there please :/

[icymelon]

your sites did well for me as an affiliate in the beginning until you took on a partner and changed things.

[Paul]

The truth is your time would be better spent doing something else, you've really answered your own question.

If a business is making less money every year it's not viable in the long term and a decade ago it was much easier to make money online.

Traffic is king and you've never had any joy at generating enough in-house traffic to justify operating 1 paysite, never mind multiple paysites. You have created this thread many times over the years and in those threads you where offered some outstanding advice that was never implemented.

This isn't an attack, it's a reality check that I'm sure you won't want to hear but it needs to be said. This is 2015 and those that are still around and doing well have had to increase their skill set quite substantially.

Mobile/Tablet Optimisation, Responsive Design, Social Media Marketing, Advanced Traffic Filtering, I mean I could go on and on with the list but you get the idea...

As for the solo model paysite niche, it died a quick death years ago. Back in the early 2000s Models needed a webmaster but that's no longer the case because you have companies like MFC, Chaturbate, LiveJasmin and lots of others that have the infrastructure and traffic/customers so now the model can go directly to the source, setup an account and do her own promotion via social media and frankly they do a much better job than most webmasters could do these days.

Add in the additional benefit of the model being in control of her promotion, content, level of interactivity etc and it's a much better deal for the model anyway.

I'll finish with some helpful advice since I'm pretty sure you'll ignore the above and embark on another attempt at creating a paysite. Firstly do your market research, find yourself a niche that's underexposed and doesn't have a lot of quality competition (easier said than done)

Learn how to generate your own sales, read, read and then read some more on how to generate traffic from as many sources as you possibly can. This isn't the early 2000s anymore, if you can't generate your own sales you're dead in the water now. It's ludicrous to depend on affiliates to define the success of your business.

[TrashyContent]

Originally Posted by Paul

The truth is your time would be better spent doing something else, you've really answered your own question.

If a business is making less money every year it's not viable in the long term and a decade ago it was much easier to make money online.

Traffic is king and you've never had any joy at generating enough in-house traffic to justify operating 1 paysite, never mind multiple paysites. You have created this thread many times over the years and in those threads you where offered some outstanding advice that was never implemented.

This isn't an attack, it's a reality check that I'm sure you won't want to hear but it needs to be said. This is 2015 and those that are still around and doing well have had to increase their skill set quite substantially.

Mobile/Tablet Optimisation, Responsive Design, Social Media Marketing, Advanced Traffic Filtering, I mean I could go on and on with the list but you get the idea...

As for the solo model paysite niche, it died a quick death years ago. Back in the early 2000s Models needed a webmaster but that's no longer the case because you have companies like MFC, Chaturbate, LiveJasmin and lots of others that have the infrastructure and traffic/customers so now the model can go directly to the source, setup an account and do her own promotion via social media and frankly they do a much better job than most webmasters could do these days.

Add in the additional benefit of the model being in control of her promotion, content, level of interactivity etc and it's a much better deal for the model anyway.

I'll finish with some helpful advice since I'm pretty sure you'll ignore the above and embark on another attempt at creating a paysite. Firstly do your market research, find yourself a niche that's underexposed and doesn't have a lot of quality competition (easier said than done)

Learn how to generate your own sales, read, read and then read some more on how to generate traffic from as many sources as you possibly can. This isn't the early 2000s anymore, if you can't generate your own sales you're dead in the water now. It's ludicrous to depend on affiliates to define the success of your business.

Nope that's a great post... lot of sense. The only thing I would say, we have to a degree evolved, in as much as we don't really shoot solo girl sites anymore... as you said a lot of them are their own bosses now and making money for themselves...

We have been shooting content for more niche sites... I am still not saying it's the B ALL... but we have some decent JOI content, some Pantyhose stuff... not to mention my very own POV styled site... just a little bit different...

We do have some new solo content too, but this basically happened due to other work we were doing with a bunch of girls based around "escorting" and running their profiles for them on Adult Work... but think of this more as filler sites to the niche stuff...

But no, what you said makes a lot of sense... and I appreciate you taking time to post it.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Paul

The truth is your time would be better spent doing something else, you've really answered your own question.

If a business is making less money every year it's not viable in the long term and a decade ago it was much easier to make money online.

Traffic is king and you've never had any joy at generating enough in-house traffic to justify operating 1 paysite, never mind multiple paysites. You have created this thread many times over the years and in those threads you where offered some outstanding advice that was never implemented.

This isn't an attack, it's a reality check that I'm sure you won't want to hear but it needs to be said. This is 2015 and those that are still around and doing well have had to increase their skill set quite substantially.

Mobile/Tablet Optimisation, Responsive Design, Social Media Marketing, Advanced Traffic Filtering, I mean I could go on and on with the list but you get the idea...

As for the solo model paysite niche, it died a quick death years ago. Back in the early 2000s Models needed a webmaster but that's no longer the case because you have companies like MFC, Chaturbate, LiveJasmin and lots of others that have the infrastructure and traffic/customers so now the model can go directly to the source, setup an account and do her own promotion via social media and frankly they do a much better job than most webmasters could do these days.

Add in the additional benefit of the model being in control of her promotion, content, level of interactivity etc and it's a much better deal for the model anyway.

I'll finish with some helpful advice since I'm pretty sure you'll ignore the above and embark on another attempt at creating a paysite. Firstly do your market research, find yourself a niche that's underexposed and doesn't have a lot of quality competition (easier said than done)

Learn how to generate your own sales, read, read and then read some more on how to generate traffic from as many sources as you possibly can. This isn't the early 2000s anymore, if you can't generate your own sales you're dead in the water now. It's ludicrous to depend on affiliates to define the success of your business.

Quite possibly the post of the year.

Paul, the highlighted area? Do tell (go on and on....LOL). I find it ever more difficult, as a Program Owner and a single Webmaster, to 'cover all the bases' when it comes to traffic generation. I have outsourced workers who do great work so I am willing to hire people to help me. But how to organize it, where to focus, etc is always the challenge. So any more thoughts you may have on traffic generation (other than tube and gallery submits, which I have handled) would be most appreciated.

PM, ICQ or Email works too. LOL Cheers!

[TrashyContent]

Just so we're all clear, the two big companies I am referring to is Traffic Gigolos and Media Revenue... Yes I know we had terrible taste in partners...