US insists rebels downed MH17 with BUK missile, ignores Dutch report

[wehateporn]

?It remains our belief?: US insists rebels downed MH17 with BUK missile, ignores Dutch report

Despite a 15-month-long Dutch-led probe not definitively concluding who fired the BUK surface-to-air missile or the precise location from which it originated, the US continues to pursue its ?belief? that it was east Ukrainian rebels who downed flight MH17.

The State department spokesman Mark Toner welcomed ?the important findings? of the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) presented on Tuesday, briefing journalists that the Dutch report ?validated? the US theory that the Malaysia-bound flight carrying nearly 300 passengers was downed ?by a BUK surface-to-air missile? from ?separatist-controlled territory.?

?The unintelligible babbling we have to read constantly simply aims at, on one hand, confusing, and on the other hand ? to form a desired public opinion, which could effectively be called propaganda,? Russia?s Foreign Ministry?s spokesperson said at a media briefing in Moscow.

Maria Zakharova pointed out that merely days after the MH17 tragedy, the US rushed to present the public with its assessment of ?not the results, but the causes of the Malaysian Boeing tragedy.?

Foreign Ministry?s spokesperson stressed that the US confirmed their position ?long before? the Dutch report was published.

The adjustment of beliefs and results of the investigation has unfortunately become ?commonplace, notably not only with the Malaysian Boeing issue, but with other subjects as well,? Zakharova said.

On Tuesday, spokesman Toner confirmed that Washington stood by ?our belief?, despite the fact that DSB reports neither attributed blame, nor determined the exact location from which the missile was launched.

When asked to clarify how it could ?possibly support your theory,? Toner only repeated, again:

?Because it does say that the MH17 was shot down by a BUK missile fired from separatist-controlled territory in eastern Ukraine, and we?ve said that from day one??

Toner?s statement, however, contradicts the Dutch Safety Board?s official findings presented Tuesday. The report has not mentioned the exact launch location, only specifying that the warhead was detonated from somewhere within a 320 sq. km area in eastern Ukraine. The report also avoided speculation about who the territory was controlled by at the time.

Continued https://www.rt.com/news/318613-usa-rebels-mh17-buk/

[j3rkules]

Source: RT.com

RT (founded as "Russia Today") is a Russian state-funded television network (...).

[JuicyBunny]

Originally Posted by jerkules

Source: RT.com

RT (founded as "Russia Today") is a Russian state-funded television network (...).

CNN, Yahoo and the rest are nothing but propaganda arms of the US. SO....
Anyone thinking US press is straight is delusional.

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by JuicyBunny

CNN, Yahoo and the rest are nothing but propaganda arms of the US. SO....
Anyone thinking US press is straight is delusional.

So then, what of Russian propaganda?

[Sly]

LOL. The report all but says it was Russian backed.

RT FTW.

[pimpmaster9000]

well we can all automatically believe that the US media would not lie, take saddams WMD as an example

[woj]

nevermind the news sources, but just think for a moment, which version makes more sense:
a. Russian rebel made a mistake thinking it's a transport plane and shot it down
b. some wild conspiracy theory...

[wehateporn]

Always ask yourself "Who Benefits?"

Originally Posted by woj

nevermind the news sources, but just think for a moment, which version makes more sense:
a. Russian rebel made a mistake thinking it's a transport plane and shot it down
b. some wild conspiracy theory...

[woj]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Always ask yourself "Who Benefits?"

I prefer "simplest explanation is usually the correct one"...

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Always ask yourself "Who Benefits?"

Zebras...

[Sly]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Always ask yourself "Who Benefits?"

In the case of your article, Russia benefits.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by woj

I prefer "simplest explanation is usually the correct one"...

The mainstream media try to influence which explanation seems to be the 'simplest'

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

Always ask yourself "Who Benefits?"

war mongers who have a long history of starting conflicts in other countries...hmmmm who fits this description?

[woj]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

The mainstream media try to influence which explanation seems to be the 'simplest'

yea, cause obviously a complicated covert operation involving dozens of people is simpler than explanation involving single person simply making a mistake...

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by woj

yea, cause obviously a complicated covert operation involving dozens of people is simpler than explanation involving single person simply making a mistake...

Remember in Syria when someone was trying to set Assad up, saying he had used chemical weapons on his own people, when obviously he hadn't, when there are these types of dirty tricks being played, it's vital to look closer and use critical thinking

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by woj

nevermind the news sources, but just think for a moment, which version makes more sense:
a. Russian rebel made a mistake thinking it's a transport plane and shot it down
b. some wild conspiracy theory...

Some people are real too stupid. There are no Russian rebels. Just because we have no civilian war here. There are Ukrainian rebels.

[MaDalton]

your critical thinking = clinical insanity

[woj]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Some people are real too stupid. There are no Russian rebels. Just because we have no civilian war here. There are Ukrainian rebels.

they are Russian-wanna-bes fighting along side "vacationing" () soldiers from Russia... using Russia supplied weapons, with Russian support, etc... so "Russian rebels" is close enough, certainly more accurate than "Ukrainian rebels"...

[Markul]

[Sly]

Originally Posted by woj

they are Russian-wanna-bes fighting along side "vacationing" () soldiers from Russia... using Russia supplied weapons, with Russian support, etc... so "Russian rebels" is close enough, certainly more accurate than "Ukrainian rebels"...

I was reading about the BUK system last night. It's not like you can walk up to it, press a button, and blam!

Whoever did it needed training.

Here are our options:
1) Russian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.
2) Russian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system trained someone to do it.
3) Ex-Russian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.
4) Ex-Russian trained soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.
5) Western trainers that knew how the Russian system worked trained the Ukrainians to shoot down a passenger jet full of Western National's.

Which seems out of place?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by wehateporn

‘It remains our belief’: US insists rebels downed MH17 with BUK missile, ignores Dutch report

Despite a 15-month-long Dutch-led probe not definitively concluding who fired the BUK surface-to-air missile or the precise location from which it originated, the US continues to pursue its “belief” that it was east Ukrainian rebels who downed flight MH17.

The State department spokesman Mark Toner welcomed “the important findings” of the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) presented on Tuesday, briefing journalists that the Dutch report “validated” the US theory that the Malaysia-bound flight carrying nearly 300 passengers was downed “by a BUK surface-to-air missile” from “separatist-controlled territory.”

“The unintelligible babbling we have to read constantly simply aims at, on one hand, confusing, and on the other hand – to form a desired public opinion, which could effectively be called propaganda,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry’s spokesperson said at a media briefing in Moscow.

Maria Zakharova pointed out that merely days after the MH17 tragedy, the US rushed to present the public with its assessment of “not the results, but the causes of the Malaysian Boeing tragedy.”

Foreign Ministry’s spokesperson stressed that the US confirmed their position “long before” the Dutch report was published.

The adjustment of beliefs and results of the investigation has unfortunately become “commonplace, notably not only with the Malaysian Boeing issue, but with other subjects as well,” Zakharova said.

On Tuesday, spokesman Toner confirmed that Washington stood by “our belief”, despite the fact that DSB reports neither attributed blame, nor determined the exact location from which the missile was launched.

When asked to clarify how it could “possibly support your theory,” Toner only repeated, again:

“Because it does say that the MH17 was shot down by a BUK missile fired from separatist-controlled territory in eastern Ukraine, and we’ve said that from day one…”

Toner’s statement, however, contradicts the Dutch Safety Board’s official findings presented Tuesday. The report has not mentioned the exact launch location, only specifying that the warhead was detonated from somewhere within a 320 sq. km area in eastern Ukraine. The report also avoided speculation about who the territory was controlled by at the time.

Continued https://www.rt.com/news/318613-usa-rebels-mh17-buk/

Jesus Christ you're a brainwashed tool.

This part of the Dutch report did not focus on "who" shot the aircraft down, just what happened to it. It didn't say who was to blame "yet" that's coming in the second report..

[ZiggiZiggiCrew]

Originally Posted by Sly

I was reading about the BUK system last night. It's not like you can walk up to it, press a button, and blam!

Whoever did it needed training.

Here are our options:
1) Russian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.
2) Russian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system trained someone to do it.
3) Ex-Russian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.
4) Ex-Russian trained soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.
5) Western trainers that knew how the Russian system worked trained the Ukrainians to shoot down a passenger jet full of Western National's.

Which seems out of place?

6) Ukranian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.

BUK is old Soviet weapon and Ukraina have many BUKs.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by ZiggiZiggiCrew

6) Ukranian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.

BUK is old Soviet weapon and Ukraina have many BUKs.

You realize how many diffrent times Moscow has changed their story on who they are blaming, yet never once do they blame their rebels.. Just a few weeks ago you morons were telling us it was a Ukraine fighter jet..

Seriously, it's amazing you commies can tie your shoelaces by yourself with out RT or Putin telling you how to do it.

[woj]

Originally Posted by ZiggiZiggiCrew

6) Ukranian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.

BUK is old Soviet weapon and Ukraina have many BUKs.

yea, but:
a. rebels weren't using any aircraft
b. plane was traveling west to east

making it impossible that Ukrainians shot it down... unless you believe in some wild conspiracy theory...

I don't follow Russian propaganda too closely... so what's the official Russian version now a days anyway?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by ZiggiZiggiCrew

6) Ukranian soldiers that knew how to operate the Russian system did it.

BUK is old Soviet weapon and Ukraina have many BUKs.

That falls into 3 or 4 on my option list.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by woj

yea, but:
a. rebels weren't using any aircraft
b. plane was traveling west to east

making it impossible that Ukrainians shot it down... unless you believe in some wild conspiracy theory...

I don't follow Russian propaganda too closely... so what's the official Russian version now a days anyway?

Logic means nothing in Mother Russia, they only care about blaming the U.S. And the West for what ever it is at that moment they are trying to shift blame from.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Some people are real too stupid. There are no Russian rebels. Just because we have no civilian war here. There are Ukrainian rebels.

You are a fucking retard.

(I typed that real slow so you would understand)

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by woj

they are Russian-wanna-bes fighting along side "vacationing"

No they are not. If you spend a hour and learn what happened there, you'll see it's almost the same situation as in Syria. There is an official government and a few groups that fight for the territory (each of them has its own goals). Nobody wants to join Russia. They want their own regimes (land of Cossacks, Novorossia, the Ukrainian autonomy etc). Thus if Ukrainian separatists are Russian rebels, then trained and backed up by the USA Syrian separatists are American rebels. So when another Islamist cuts a throat of some Christian in Syria or Iraq, I should say: "look American rebels did it again!"

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by woj

I don't follow Russian propaganda too closely... so what's the official Russian version now a days anyway?

Nobody knows and nobody cares, because the investigation was not performed by Russia. Russia has no access to all those materials. So the officials here may have their own versions/guesses but nothing else. The Ukrainian territory was not controlled by Russia and the aircraft was not guided by the Russian operators - it haven't reached Russian territory, so as the Ukraine - they were 100% responsible for that flight till it not crossed entered the Russian air space.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Nobody knows and nobody cares, because the investigation was not performed by Russia. Russia has no access to all those materials. So the officials here may have their own versions/guesses but nothing else. The Ukrainian territory was not controlled by Russia and the aircraft was not guided by the Russian operators - it haven't reached Russian territory, so as the Ukraine - they were 100% responsible for that flight till it not crossed entered the Russian air space.

Do you get extra rations coupons for posts like this?


.

[Sly]

If Russia so clearly didn't do it, and the Dutch report so clearly says that they didn't do it, why on earth would they be fighting for another investigation?

Russia appeals to UN aviation body to open new MH17 probe

Here we have Russian officials arguing and complaining about a report because it paints them in a very bad light, yet RT claims "all is good!" Come on guys, even you Russians have to see how ridiculous RT is.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Sly

If Russia so clearly didn't do it, and the Dutch report so clearly says that they didn't do it, why on earth would they be fighting for another investigation?

Who knows? Maybe because Putin has a sympathy to the Ukrainian rebels?

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Do you get extra rations coupons for posts like this?

Sure thing. Why not? I've just got a couple of these:



God bless Obama

[klinton]

BLABLABLA.

rebels did it by mistake.

who benefits from it ? "Anti-Russian" coalition.

why rebels shot it ? a) by their mistake and stupidity b) by provocation (ie: other jet - ukrainian warplane - flying around MH17).

could b) be true ? is it possible to mistake civil airplane with military one in BUK system ? thats first question, the other is: would any ukrainian pilot risk being shot down and fly around rebels and MH17 ?.

2) Ukrainians did it ?nah, not possible... Russians would be screaming around already with proofs...

any other possibilities ? dont think so

[Sly]

Originally Posted by klinton

BLABLABLA.

rebels did it by mistake.

who benefits from it ? "Anti-Russian" coalition.

why rebels shot it ? a) by their mistake and stupidity b) by provocation (ie: other jet - ukrainian warplane - flying around MH17).

could b) be true ? is it possible to mistake civil airplane with military one in BUK system ? thats first question, the other is: would any ukrainian pilot risk being shot down and fly around rebels and MH17 ?.

2) Ukrainians did it ?nah, not possible... Russians would be screaming around already with proofs...

any other possibilities ? dont think so

From what I read last night (I'm sure our Russian friends will correct me) the BUK system has 3 vehicles. Two of them are basically the brains, one is the braun. The braun can work on its own without the brains, but clearly it's capabilities would be limited. It is able to detect friendly aircraft, but it cannot identify what unfriendly aircraft are. In this scenario, it's possible that they detected an aircraft, had no way of knowing it was passenger so they assumed it was enemy, and fired.

[klinton]

there you go commandir, no need for Russian friends to explain it


you may even buy that fancy redstar hat that the Buk crew is wearing, great for the winter !

Originally Posted by Sly

From what I read last night (I'm sure our Russian friends will correct me) the BUK system has 3 vehicles. Two of them are basically the brains, one is the braun. The braun can work on its own without the brains, but clearly it's capabilities would be limited. It is able to detect friendly aircraft, but it cannot identify what unfriendly aircraft are. In this scenario, it's possible that they detected an aircraft, had no way of knowing it was passenger so they assumed it was enemy, and fired.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

You are a fucking retard.

(I typed that real slow so you would understand)

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Sly

The braun can work on its own without the brains, but clearly it's capabilities would be limited. It is able to detect friendly aircraft, but it cannot identify what unfriendly aircraft are.

Basically that's correct. So if there was only one unit of BUK (nobody knows about it for sure), a civilian aircraft cloud be really confused with a military transport airplane, especially if it was escorted by the Ukrainian jet fighter.

This is a video of what the regular Ukrainian army aviation did to its own civilians:



Course the rebels got mad after that. At least I can understand why there were so angry against anything what flies over them from the western side of the country. So if it was a provocation of the Ukrainian army, it was real successful.

[BaldBastard]

Love the Russian, American bashing in this thread.

Can the Russians explain exactly what was the involvement of the USA in the reports issued so far? And what do they presume is the American involvement is in the criminal investigation that's released next? and do you call Malaysia a western country?

And what makes you think at least Australia and Malaysia give two fucks if its Russian or Ukraine at fault?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Can the Russians explain exactly what was the involvement of the USA in the reports issued so far?

Who told you the USA were involved? Who even cares what they think? The investigation was done by the Netherlands and actually it does not clear anything so far. Everybody knew the plane was shot down by BUK from a very beginning. But everything else is still unknown.

[Horatio Caine]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Love the Russian, American bashing in this thread.

Can the Russians explain exactly what was the involvement of the USA in the reports issued so far? And what do they presume is the American involvement is in the criminal investigation that's released next? and do you call Malaysia a western country?

And what makes you think at least Australia and Malaysia give two fucks if its Russian or Ukraine at fault?

Why you ask stupid question if know answer? I feel sorry for your australian education system because its stupid. Everyone know who shut down this!! HINT: not russian! Because most of main leaders who started shit was russian but not russian. The POW's was not Russian. they finish russian army 2 weeks before they got captured and only becasue your propoganda. You know nothing about this. My suggest is you read before you post. I know the foodtamps in Australia is only 90 cents to dollar stupid. No way of tricking me, because we have yet develop food stamp system and don't need. Russian have pension of $200 and live like kings. My grandmother Svetlana has house and 2 goats. You have none!

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by Horatio Caine

Why you ask stupid question if know answer? I feel sorry for your australian education system because its stupid. Everyone know who shut down this!! HINT: not russian! Because most of main leaders who started shit was russian but not russian. The POW's was not Russian. they finish russian army 2 weeks before they got captured and only becasue your propoganda. You know nothing about this. My suggest is you read before you post. I know the foodtamps in Australia is only 90 cents to dollar stupid. No way of tricking me, because we have yet develop food stamp system and don't need. Russian have pension of $200 and live like kings. My grandmother Svetlana has house and 2 goats. You have none!

Don't you go insulting me because I have no goats, I'll let you know I'm from New Zealand and we have sheep, many fine and sexy sheep too may I add ;) , well except those black sheep, I don't like the darkies they always kick to hard. So be nice to me cos if you or one of your 11 brothers ever travel here by fishing boat, I can hook you up! not just with a standard sheep either, but one so plump and woolly you will be the envy of every Russian goat fucker for generations!

[klinton]

do you drive Zhiguli in Miami ?

Originally Posted by Horatio Caine

Why you ask stupid question if know answer? I feel sorry for your australian education system because its stupid. Everyone know who shut down this!! HINT: not russian! Because most of main leaders who started shit was russian but not russian. The POW's was not Russian. they finish russian army 2 weeks before they got captured and only becasue your propoganda. You know nothing about this. My suggest is you read before you post. I know the foodtamps in Australia is only 90 cents to dollar stupid. No way of tricking me, because we have yet develop food stamp system and don't need. Russian have pension of $200 and live like kings. My grandmother Svetlana has house and 2 goats. You have none!

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by CyberSEO

Everybody knew the plane was shot down by BUK from a very beginning. But everything else is still unknown.

Every one except Russia you mean? Please explain your confusing meh.

https://www.rt.com/news/174412-malay...ussia-ukraine/
https://www.rt.com/news/239881-mh17-...e-fighter-jet/
https://www.rt.com/news/205339-mh17-...ane-malaysian/
https://www.rt.com/news/273943-mh17-...ssile-ukraine/
https://www.rt.com/news/173976-mh17-...tions-ukraine/
https://www.rt.com/news/173672-malay...e-crash-putin/

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Sly

From what I read last night (I'm sure our Russian friends will correct me) the BUK system has 3 vehicles. Two of them are basically the brains, one is the braun. The braun can work on its own without the brains, but clearly it's capabilities would be limited. It is able to detect friendly aircraft, but it cannot identify what unfriendly aircraft are. In this scenario, it's possible that they detected an aircraft, had no way of knowing it was passenger so they assumed it was enemy, and fired.

They thought it was a troop transport. In the previous weeks they had shot down another troop transport as well as 2 or 3 fighters. The rebels were pretty good at shooting down Ukraine's airplanes and choppers. When they shot it down, the acting General of the rebels posted on their official Twitter account bragging about shooting down a Ukraine troop transport and gave the specific location of the wreckage.

As soon as they discovered it was a civilian airliner they deleted the Twitter post and Russia went on a non stop propaganda spree blaming Ukraine and having the rebels keep everyone out of the wreckage area.

With in a week Russia removed the acting General from his position and replaced him with a new guy..

It's a simple fact, the rebels shot it down by mistake, it's a war crime and Russia supplied the equipment so they are blame shifting.. The only people who buy the BS Russian story(s) is dumb ass Russians who are brainwashed to hate everything from the West..

Russia's stories have been everything from a Ukraine fighter shot it down, a fighter trying to draw rebel fire, Ukraine shooting it with a buk and the dumbest of all dumb, claiming it was the missing Asian airliner filled with dead bodies attempting to frame them..

Russians are just stupid fucks it's pretty clear if they have to keep changing their stories then they are the ones lying. It's pretty clear by this point Russians are too dumb to have democracy their only hope is dictatorship and potato lines..

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by crockett

They thought it was a troop transport. In the previous weeks they had shot down another troop transport as well as 2 or 3 fighters. The rebels were pretty good at shooting down Ukraine's airplanes and choppers. When they shot it down, the acting General of the rebels posted on their official Twitter account bragging about shooting down a Ukraine troop transport and gave the specific location of the wreckage.

As soon as they discovered it was a civilian airliner they deleted the Twitter post and Russia went on a non stop propaganda spree blaming Ukraine and having the rebels keep everyone out of the wreckage area.

With in a week Russia removed the acting General from his position and replaced him with a new guy..

It's a simple fact, the rebels shot it down by mistake, it's a war crime and Russia supplied the equipment so they are blame shifting.. The only people who buy the BS Russian story(s) is dumb ass Russians who are brainwashed to hate everything from the West..

Russia's stories have been everything from a Ukraine fighter shot it down, a fighter trying to draw rebel fire, Ukraine shooting it with a buk and the dumbest of all dumb, claiming it was the missing Asian airliner filled with dead bodies attempting to frame them..

Russians are just stupid fucks it's pretty clear if they have to keep changing their stories then they are the ones lying. It's pretty clear by this point Russians are too dumb to have democracy their own hope is dictatorship and potato lines..

[Struggle4Bucks]

I never watch the news anymore... what happend??? The missing malaysian airplane was found in a Russian septic???

[Struggle4Bucks]

or the ukranian scepticalists shot it down???

[Seth Manson]

[Horatio Caine]

Originally Posted by klinton

do you drive Zhiguli in Miami ?

Why fuck you ask? You don't have education or nothing? You think we only have Lada stupid? No, I drive german automobile and pay insurance cheaper than stupid americans. What car you drive? TIP: not expensive and luxury Lada, probably trailer park type Ford. Think before next time you ask.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Horatio Caine

Why fuck you ask? You don't have education or nothing? You think we only have Lada stupid? No, I drive german automobile and pay insurance cheaper than stupid americans. What car you drive? TIP: not expensive and luxury Lada, probably trailer park type Ford. Think before next time you ask.

you see new 'sports edition' Lada?