GFY Lawyers - Need your help!

[Rob]

A client just hired me to take over their development and SEO. Come to find out, the previous firm they had working for them transferred all their domain name ownership to themselves. This was without their authorization of course, but they had access to everything they needed to make it happen without them knowing.

Is there recourse? Is there any protection in place for this type of action? There haven't been any demands yet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before those come. Can they get their domains back?

[CurrentlySober]

The obvious question is WHY did they give their authorization?

[Barry-xlovecam]

Was it ''larceny by conversion'' <= look it up

[woj]

why not just contact them, ask to get the domains back and see what happens first? good chance they will just transfer them over, if not, you proceed with plan b...

[Rob]

Originally Posted by woj

why not just contact them, ask to get the domains back and see what happens first? good chance they will just transfer them over, if not, you proceed with plan b...

Already did that and they're playing games. Saying they don't know what they're talking about, etc.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

The obvious question is WHY did they give their authorization?

They didn't, that was a mistype. I corrected it in the OP.

[PornDiscounts-V]

Your client would have to file paperwork with ICANN about it. And they will figure it out in minutes if you are Google, or decades if you are sex.com.

If they are in a decent country you can sue them in Federal court to get an injunction and have the domains and their current status of pointing where they should be pointing frozen.

If they are in Romania I just have to laugh.

[DVTimes]

To be honest I would not get too involved.

If I was you I would (as stated) tell them to contact everyone via email/letter (I would always do a letter to back things up).

But to be honest, if your clients gave this firm access to the domain names, then fool to them. There is no reason they needed to. And if they do not understand this basic fact, then do you really want to work with them?

[Rob]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

To be honest I would not get too involved.

Unfortunately I have to get involved. $3,500 a month is not something I want (or can) turn down at this point in time. I would love to wash my hands of them and say, "Your Bad", but that's a huge chunk of change I would be walking away from.

[marlboroack]

Contact me

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by marlboroack

Contact me

"It takes a thief?"



;p



.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Rob

A client just hired me to take over their development and SEO. Come to find out, the previous firm they had working for them transferred all their domain name ownership to themselves. This was without their authorization of course, but they had access to everything they needed to make it happen without them knowing.

Is there recourse? Is there any protection in place for this type of action? There haven't been any demands yet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before those come. Can they get their domains back?

Send the folks who grabbed the domains a very nice polit note requesting that they turn them over to the rightful owners.

Make sure to cc at least 3 or 4 actual lawyers on the note.

.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by Rob

They didn't, that was a mistype. I corrected it in the OP.

Fair enough - Next question then. Have the previous people that transferred the domains to themselves been paid in full for previous work they did, or are they still owed money and are holding them for ransom?

Because if that is the case it means they don't pay their bills, so your $3500 a month probably wont materialise either...

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Send the folks who grabbed the domains a very nice polit note requesting that they turn them over to the rightful owners.

Make sure to cc at least 3 or 4 actual lawyers on the note.

.

Ding ding! Great move.

The other thing Rob is if your new clients are indeed such clueless fucktards that they allowed another firm to steal their domains then guess what? Take the $3.500 a month for as long as you can and do.....nothing. Will your clients notice? Or care? Tell them you handled it, how would they know being such idiots? LOL

[shake]

Two quick options to try: contact the domain register, they will likely restore it to the original person once you provide some details (assuming they didn't move it to another one)

Next thing would be to write up a letter demanding they return it, and pay a lawyer to review it and send it by registered mail (cost should be minimal if you check around). You could even have it sent by process server, tends to get shit moving...

[suesheboy]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Fair enough - Next question then. Have the previous people that transferred the domains to themselves been paid in full for previous work they did, or are they still owed money and are holding them for ransom?

Because if that is the case it means they don't pay their bills, so your $3500 a month probably wont materialise either...

This is all I was thinking as I was scrolling down the thread.

One of many things I learned is if you want a very long profitable relationship with a customer or a vendor, avoid idiots or people in perpetual drama. It is bad as dating talent or shooting out of your house eventually you will get robbed or burned.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Was it ''larceny by conversion'' <= look it up

Thanks your Honour

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by suesheboy

This is all I was thinking as I was scrolling down the thread.

One of many things I learned is if you want a very long profitable relationship with a customer or a vendor, avoid idiots or people in perpetual drama. It is bad as dating talent or shooting out of your house eventually you will get robbed or burned.

Great points by you and CS. Hadn't thought of that.

[xXXtesy10]

Originally Posted by marlboroack

Contact me

fuck you

[Joe Obenberger]

This is all frankly beyond belief.

There must be some missing facts.

I have the impression that you are dealing with a law firm that previously represented them, but maybe I'm misreading you. If it was lawyers -

Every American lawyer is bound by some very strident regulations concerning the holding of client property and the duty to return client property on request. The Code of Professional Responsibility is not some feel good, vague set of best practices. It is a code of law that can lead to any lawyer losing his livelihood in short order. Lawyers in every state get disbarred every year for far more subtle mishandling of client money in trust accounts.

Every American lawyer knows that, and that's why I question whether there are some other facts here that might make a difference.

The easiest approach is simply a letter signed by the domain owner, whose delivery is established by signature of the recipient, demanding the immediate and unconditional return of the possession and formal legal ownership of the domain, without delay or complication, and proposing the method of doing that, within a specified, few, number of days. The letter should state that the owner reserves the right to take any and all appropriate action, without limitation of any kind. A copy of the particular state's enactment of the Code section dealing with a lawyer's duty concerning client property can be attached and referenced in the letter. Should that fail to get the desired effect within a few days, the owner should report the facts to the state agency, court, or bar committee that is responsible for attorney misconduct in that state. They can be most persuasive and very helpful in this kind of matter.

But if you're not talking about lawyers, it's far more tricky and difficult. The most important issue is whether there is an agreement in place, perhaps a written contract, setting out the relationship. In fact, your client may have contracted so that ownership of the domains would be in that prior SEO and development firm, with a right only to rent or use the domain while purchasing that firm's services. It would be far from unusual to see that kind of contract, it's common, though the customers sometimes are too wrapped up into wishful thinking and what seems like a deal too good to be true to recognize what they actually have agreed to. Check that out before you go further. If that firm did the registration in its own name, and the question only arises after they get fired, and they refuse to transfer, the odds are that they believe that they are legitimate owners. They might be!

[suesheboy]

I would like to make 3 further suggestion:

1) Joe Obenberger has a great reputation. Do not do this kind of work for the customer yourself. Your customer should be paying paying a lawyer to do this if the domains were stolen and build a paperwork trail which may be needed in court. You wouldn't operate on yourself. Only a fool represents himself in court. A bigger fool does legal type work for someone else without be a lawyer.

If you don't know J O xxx.law ask for prior clients here to PM you. You will be satisfied with the responses you get with longtime GFY members.

2) I have seen SEO companies that promise to raise your results by building up new domains (which they continue to own).

3) If your customer is willing to pay you for research, due your due diligence like using the way back machine and by looking at older whois records. If they are not willing to pay you to do this, tell them no thank you and do not take him/her on.

Lastly, a customer who will not follow everything you want them to do is a shitty SEO client. They will inhibit you getting the results you need to keep them happy and get work from other companies impressed by what you were able to do for them.

If they hedge at hiring legal help (and they can afford to pay you $3,500 a month) they know they are guilty of something and or won't listen to other suggestions and sound advice.

[Rob]

It's an engineering firm, all invoices are paid to date in full. They didn't authorize the web developer to transfer the domain into his name, he did that without their authorization or knowledge. There were no signed contracts. He took three months to put up a trashy WP site with no text, pretty much images and links only. And no SEO to speak of. They contacted me for a free SEO and site assessment, I gave them my professional opinion, and it lent credibility to what they already thought -- that the guy was just ripping them off.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by marlboroack

Contact me

[Rob]

They provided the login information for their registrar so he could point the nameservers. I have the login information for all of my clients' registrars. But since he also had access to the server (mail), then he could have easily forwarded the email to himself, initiated a transfer, authorized it by intercepting the email, and then completing it through the registrar's admin panel.

[Relic]

[Joe Obenberger]

Originally Posted by Rob

They provided the login information for their registrar so he could point the nameservers. I have the login information for all of my clients' registrars. But since he also had access to the server (mail), then he could have easily forwarded the email to himself, initiated a transfer, authorized it by intercepting the email, and then completing it through the registrar's admin panel.

have they considered a call to the FBI?

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Joe Obenberger

have they considered a call to the FBI?

Dunh dunh DUNH!