News Tony Blair Finally Admits Iraq War Caused ISIS

[RummyBoy]

Or at least, he finally admits Iraq was a mistake and had a part in the rise of ISIS. Now I hope someone can lock him up and throw away the key. When Europe gets totally destroyed, this man can be blamed.

Video: Tony Blair apologises for Iraq War mistakes and accepts invasion had part to play in rise of Islamic State - Telegraph

[wehateporn]

Too little too late, and he's only trying to save his ass from jail

[j3rkules]

This was not an apology. It was an attempt to shift blame. Saying that he apologises for bad intelligence is essentially blaming the intelligence services (who actually told him that the war would promote terrorism). He also apologised for the aftermath, but clarified his position by essentially blaming the Iraqi government for the rise of sectarian tensions - shifting the blame for that too. It wasn't an apology. What he was saying was 'it weren't me guv!'.

[dyna mo]

wrong.


that's not at all what he said.

[JuicyBunny]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

wrong.


that's not at all what he said.

Actually, Jerkules is correct. He threw the legitimate side of the intelligence community under the bus and blamed it on them basically. He knows he and Bush should be tried for war crimes right along with Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and the rest of that filth. I give Colin Powell a pass though.

[sandman!]

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by JuicyBunny

Actually, Jerkules is correct. He threw the legitimate side of the intelligence community under the bus and blamed it on them basically. He knows he and Bush should be tried for war crimes right along with Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld and the rest of that filth. I give Colin Powell a pass though.

my comment goes to the thread title. blair did not admit the Iraq war caused ISIS.

[Best-In-BC]

It was bad intelligence by a government run by someone else than bush, its clear to anyone who investigates 911 that someone in the office knew this was happening and wanted it to happen. The fucking Saudis are the ones who did it too, obvious as fuck.

[Sarn]

Tony Blair: - ouch! sorry Iraq! I need to run. I am late for my the breakfast
Iraq: - who need your apology?

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

my comment goes to the thread title. blair did not admit the Iraq war caused ISIS.

So wait as early as years 10 it recognizes also it, and can be will apologize.

[Robbie]

This whole thing is like watching people "interpret" the Bible.

You just put whatever it is you want to believe into what you read and hear.

The "bad intel" was from the 1990's when Pres. Clinton and Tony Blair were best of buddies.
Do I think that both of them (and later of course, Bush) wanted to go after Iraq? Yep.

Do I think that both of them looked at the horrible work that our "intel" (spy agencies) gave them and said "Oh hell yes!" Yep.

As Hillary Clinton said about Benghazi to the Senate: "What difference does it make?"

Reality is: Pres. Bill Clinton bombed the fuck out of them. Which was illegal as well. That's an act of war. And that set the stage for Bush to wage an all out illegal war using that same "intelligence" that was given to his administration by the Clinton administration.
And that is illegal as hell.

And immoral. And completely Un-American in every way.

Invading, bombing, attacking, and even trying to force other country's to do what we tell them to do is WRONG.

Just imagine if some other country decided to tell the United States (you know, the only country on Earth that is insane enough to have actually used nuclear weapons on people) that we aren't "ALLOWED" to have nukes.
AND, they are going to declare the air space over the United States a "no-fly" zone and shoot down any of our planes flying.

That sounds crazy doesn't it?
And yet, that's exactly what we did.

And then when they weren't able to live up to being treated that way after a dozen years...we use bullshit "intel" and invade them and overthrow their govt.

Wow.

If you had told me the United States Of America would EVER do that. I wouldn't have believed it.

And what are we doing now?
We are STILL over there fighting, killing, and getting killed.

For what?
Iraq never attacked us. And we were so hell-bent on getting rid of Hussein and any "WMD's"
Well...he is gone, and there aren't any WMD's.

So what the fuck is our govt. doing there? And why won't they leave?????

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The "bad intel" was from the 1990's when Pres. Clinton and Tony Blair were best of buddies.
Do I think that both of them (and later of course, Bush) wanted to go after Iraq? Yep.

i am not sure whether it makes sense for me to post this since nowadays everyone seems to be very settled in his/her opinion but the "bad intel" the Iraq invasion was based on is directly related to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)

as repeatedly admitted even by the CIA

I don't know what Clinton has to do with that

[RummyBoy]

Ok, ok thread title is not accurate so I'm not perfect but all of this talk about wrong intelligence is complete bullshit. There was an agenda to attack Iraq, Libya, etc and the false intelligence was simply a way to justify and get support for it. There are hundreds of smoking guns but here's something from the horses mouth:



Wes Clarke: "They could hardly wait to finish Iraq so they could move into Syria"

[JuicyBunny]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

my comment goes to the thread title. blair did not admit the Iraq war caused ISIS.

My bad. Thread title is off, yes.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Invading Iraq was a lose-lose proposition.
Invading Afghanistan will be a lose-lose situation.
Being involved in the civil war in Syria will be a lose-lose situation.

Killing bin Laden was just vengeance. Perhaps justified but it did little good.

The bible thumpers must be going nuts -- these are the days of Gog and Magog?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by RummyBoy

Ok, ok thread title is not accurate so I'm not perfect but all of this talk about wrong intelligence is complete bullshit. There was an agenda to attack Iraq, Libya, etc and the false intelligence was simply a way to justify and get support for it. There are hundreds of smoking guns but here's something from the horses mouth:



Wes Clarke: "They could hardly wait to finish Iraq so they could move into Syria"

we have a serious problem with intelligence gathering, regardless of Bush's motivations. to try and wax over that waxes over the crust of the problem.

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

we have a serious problem with intelligence gathering, regardless of Bush's motivations. to try and wax over that waxes over the crust of the problem.

USA have one of the best intelligence agency in the world.
I'm sure they knew all.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Best-In-BC

It was bad intelligence by a government run by someone else than bush, its clear to anyone who investigates 911 that someone in the office knew this was happening and wanted it to happen. The fucking Saudis are the ones who did it too, obvious as fuck.

yeah, obvious without any facts to back any of that up...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

i am not sure whether it makes sense for me to post this since nowadays everyone seems to be very settled in his/her opinion but the "bad intel" the Iraq invasion was based on is directly related to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)

as repeatedly admitted even by the CIA

I don't know what Clinton has to do with that

Jesus man...wake up.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Clinton was using that guys bad intel.
Bush was using that guys bad intel.

The intel was determined to be FALSE in 2004. You know...2 years AFTER the war started.
What is so hard to understand?

If I tell you your wife is cheating today. And you divorce her tomorrow. But you find out next week that I was lying.
Does that make YOU a liar too?
No.

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by Robbie

If I tell you your wife is cheating today.

[Rochard]

Tony Blair did not say that the Invasion of Iraq created ISIS.

Interviewer: When people look at the rise of ISIS many people look at the Invasion as the principle cause. What do you say to that?

Blair: I think there were elements of truth in but we need to be careful to understand that is going on in Syria and Iraq today. Of course you cannot say that those of us who removed Saddam in 2003 had no responsibility for the situation in 2015, But it is important also to realize (1) The Arab Spring of 2012 would have also had it's impact on Iraq today and (two) ISIS actually come to promience from a base in Syria and not Iraq.

Basically what he is saying is that what happened happened and most likely would have happened no matter what.

Also keep in mind that while we like to believe Saddam had an iron grip on the country, the truth was this was only in the larger cities and populated areas. In other areas there was little to no government control, which seems to be common in middle eastern countries.

I don't believe ISIS had anything to do with what happened in Iraq ten or fifteen years prior. Even if we had never invaded Iraq and or overthrown Saddam, ISIS would still be ISIS and most likely would still be in the same exact position it is today.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Sarn

Fucking Russians..

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by Robbie

This whole thing is like watching people "interpret" the Bible.

You just put whatever it is you want to believe into what you read and hear.

The "bad intel" was from the 1990's when Pres. Clinton and Tony Blair were best of buddies.
Do I think that both of them (and later of course, Bush) wanted to go after Iraq? Yep.

Do I think that both of them looked at the horrible work that our "intel" (spy agencies) gave them and said "Oh hell yes!" Yep.

As Hillary Clinton said about Benghazi to the Senate: "What difference does it make?"

Reality is: Pres. Bill Clinton bombed the fuck out of them. Which was illegal as well. That's an act of war. And that set the stage for Bush to wage an all out illegal war using that same "intelligence" that was given to his administration by the Clinton administration.
And that is illegal as hell.

And immoral. And completely Un-American in every way.

Invading, bombing, attacking, and even trying to force other country's to do what we tell them to do is WRONG.

Just imagine if some other country decided to tell the United States (you know, the only country on Earth that is insane enough to have actually used nuclear weapons on people) that we aren't "ALLOWED" to have nukes.
AND, they are going to declare the air space over the United States a "no-fly" zone and shoot down any of our planes flying.

That sounds crazy doesn't it?
And yet, that's exactly what we did.

And then when they weren't able to live up to being treated that way after a dozen years...we use bullshit "intel" and invade them and overthrow their govt.

Wow.

If you had told me the United States Of America would EVER do that. I wouldn't have believed it.

And what are we doing now?
We are STILL over there fighting, killing, and getting killed.

For what?
Iraq never attacked us. And we were so hell-bent on getting rid of Hussein and any "WMD's"
Well...he is gone, and there aren't any WMD's.

So what the fuck is our govt. doing there? And why won't they leave?????

So, the war in Iraq was ... Clinton's fault?

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by crockett

Fucking Russians..

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Tony Blair did not say that the Invasion of Iraq created ISIS.

who then created isis?
who sends the weapon, money, hammers, ammo, food and toyotas?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Sarn

who then created isis?
who sends the weapon, money, hammers, ammo, food and toyotas?

ISIS was one of the groups that was created because of what is happening in Syria in the past few years, not what the United States did to Iraq ten or fifteen years ago. If the United States never set foot in Iraq, Syria would still have the problems it has today and ISIS would still exist.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by **********

So, the war in Iraq was ... Clinton's fault?

Is that seriously what you comprehended that I'm pointing out? Seriously?

[RummyBoy]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I don't believe ISIS had anything to do with what happened in Iraq ten or fifteen years prior. Even if we had never invaded Iraq and or overthrown Saddam, ISIS would still be ISIS and most likely would still be in the same exact position it is today.

Dude, what you are smoking?

ISIS and Al Qaida - they are all a direct response to (mainly) US foreign policy in the middle east and to say otherwise is absurd. The middle east has been turned upside down and millions have died, lost their families or been displaced.

what he is saying is that what happened happened and most likely would have happened no matter what.

Well of course, he is bound to say that to defend his ass. Unfortunately, its complete bullshit and no-one believes it.

[Barry-xlovecam]

ISIS is an alliance of Saddam's former boggiemen and the fringe fanatical elements of al-Qaeda.

That red-head general that was on the famous Saddam card deck was killed and is claimed to be part of what was behind ISIS ...

Izzat Ibrahim Al-Douri / Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri

Iraq: Saddam General With ISIS Killed - The Daily Beast

Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, aide to Saddam Hussein, killed - CNN.com

Saddam's guys live on to fight another day. Osama's guys live on to fight another day too. The name is changed but it is the same game ...

[Dvae]

...but Obama was elected to stop all the warmongering, even won a Nobel Peace Prize.

What went wrong?

[Barry-xlovecam]

It all started here and the cycle seems to be repeating itself again today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone -- Operation Cyclone

Carter started it,
Reagan and HW Bush continued it,
Clinton tried to contain it,
GW Bush fell into it hook, line and sinker,
Obama tried to run from the failed policies of his predecessors.

Now Putin starts it all over again in Syria ...

This is a no-win scenario to no end (or the toward the end ).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by Dvae

...but Obama was elected to stop all the warmongering, even won a Nobel Peace Prize.

What went wrong?

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Tony Blair did not say that the Invasion of Iraq created ISIS.

Interviewer: When people look at the rise of ISIS many people look at the Invasion as the principle cause. What do you say to that?

Blair: I think there were elements of truth in but we need to be careful to understand that is going on in Syria and Iraq today. Of course you cannot say that those of us who removed Saddam in 2003 had no responsibility for the situation in 2015, But it is important also to realize (1) The Arab Spring of 2012 would have also had it's impact on Iraq today and (two) ISIS actually come to promience from a base in Syria and not Iraq.

Basically what he is saying is that what happened happened and most likely would have happened no matter what.

No, he clearly said that the invasion of Iraq holds some responsibility and then tries to blame the Arab spring.

The boldness of the Iraq invasion set up the sentiment for the Arab Spring.
There is no Arab Spring without the invasion of Iraq.

[Robbie]

During the Vietnam War the band "The Who" had a song called "Won't Get Fooled Again".

I'm just old enough to remember how Vietnam was a "quagmire" that seemed like it would never end and when it finally did...the entire country was wondering why in the hell we did it in the first place.

I recall the Bush administration swearing that this wouldn't be like Vietnam.
Yet...here we are 13 years later. The original bullshit reason we went into Iraq is long gone.
And now the President is about to put troops on the ground again (calling them "advisers").

I always heard that "history repeats itself".
And now I am seeing it first hand in my own lifetime.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Jesus man...wake up.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Clinton was using that guys bad intel.
Bush was using that guys bad intel.

The intel was determined to be FALSE in 2004. You know...2 years AFTER the war started.
What is so hard to understand?

If I tell you your wife is cheating today. And you divorce her tomorrow. But you find out next week that I was lying.
Does that make YOU a liar too?
No.

The Bush administration laid blame on the CIA, criticizing its officials for "failing to investigate" doubts about Curveball, which emerged after an October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate. In May 2004, over a year after the invasion of Iraq, the CIA concluded formally that Curveball's information was fabricated. Furthermore, on June 26, 2006, The Washington Post reported that "the CIA acknowledged that Curveball was a con artist who drove a taxi in Iraq and spun his engineering knowledge into a fantastic but plausible tale about secret bioweapons factories on wheels."[15]

On April 8, 2005, CIA Director Porter Goss ordered an internal review of the CIA in order to determine why doubts about Curveball's reliability were not forwarded to policy makers. Former CIA Director George Tenet and his former deputy, John E. McLaughlin, announced that they were not aware of doubts about Curveball's veracity before the war. However, Tyler Drumheller, the former chief of the CIA's European division, told the Los Angeles Times that "everyone in the chain of command knew exactly what was happening."

Clinton was president until January 2001, Bush and Blair decided to invade Iraq anyways in 2002 which then happened in 2003 - well knowing at that point that it would be on false premises.


February 2003 - about 1 month before the Iraq invasion



make sure to read the English translation below the video

Article from back then:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Rumsfeld.html

i'm out of here, there is nothing more to be said from my side

[Robbie]

Read what you just wrote Ma Dalton. And stop trying to think that you or I REALLY know what happened...just stick to the facts.

Someone "doubted" the intel in 2002? I'd bet that people "doubted" it from the 1990's. But most people did not doubt it and moved forward.

It wasn't until 2004 (as you just wrote) that they determined it was bullshit. (and the way they "determined" that was...we had already invaded and never found anything lol)

You can't have it both ways.

From the 1990's up until 2004 the working intelligence being shared amongst country's was that Hussein had or was about to have nukes.

Now did Bush WANT to believe it more than disbelieve it? I think so. And of course the military itself ALWAYS wants to believe that kind of thing. It keeps their budget alive and well. So you know the Pentagon was "advising" Bush to invade.

But again...there are NO facts saying that Pres. Clinton, Madeline Albright, Hillary Clinton, or George Bush had anything but a belief that it was good intel.

What they may or may not have felt in their hearts is something that you and I can only speculate on.
But you are trying to claim it's some kind of "fact". It is not. It is your opinion.

[wehateporn]

"Tony Blair Finally Admits Iraq War Caused ISIS"

And I wonder what war on Syria would cause

[michael.kickass]

Duh, thanks Tony for the enlightment.

[12clicks]

revisionist history is a humorous thing