Hot or Not Emo Kylo Ren (Star wars - Spoilers)

[AntonMG]

Hey,
I've seen the latest Star Wars during the holidays and I must say that as much as it is 100% better than Episodes 1-3, The vilains were a complete let down for me.

Seriously, the guy is just a fucking teenager with a light saber.
The kind that smashes his room because he's grounded for a week...
He even struggles to beat a former (inexperienced) storm trooper during a light saber fight... pathetic
I was half expecting him to fuck off on a skateboard after he's done with his Eudipus complex.

Talking about Kylo Ren, this twitter account really nailed it (IMOO):
https://twitter.com/KyloR3n

[PuppetMaster]

Interesting.

[ilnjscb]

I hope the next one will be better

[Ajokki]

At first, when he stopped the lazer, he seemed like a badass, but then...well, you know...

[atom]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

Hey,

He even struggles to beat a former (inexperienced) storm trooper during a light saber fight... pathetic

https://twitter.com/KyloR3n

This was also my initial reaction and then I thought about it. Storm troopers are trained from birth to fight. So its not like Fin was a nobody.

The other thing is Kylo had been shot and seriously wounded prior to the fight. Anyone else that gets shot with Chewie's cross bow instantly dies in every Star Wars movie. Its a bad ass gun. Kylo survived, managed to track down Fin and Rey and fight them.

[Scott McD]

So why exactly does he wear a mask?

Vader needed it. Him however ??

[C H R I S]

I agree - villains were crap. The giant holographic supreme leader looked like a disney exhibit.

Overall I thought it was entertaining but basically I payed $10.00 to watch the original star wars with new characters.

[ClickCashEmily]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

So why exactly does he wear a mask?

Vader needed it. Him however ??

Because he's emulating Grandpa

I love the emo Kylo Ren. There's another fun one that just started for R2:
https://twitter.com/R2D2LowPower/

[The Porn Nerd]

His light saber is badass tho.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by atom

This was also my initial reaction and then I thought about it. Storm troopers are trained from birth to fight. So its not like Fin was a nobody.

The other thing is Kylo had been shot and seriously wounded prior to the fight. Anyone else that gets shot with Chewie's cross bow instantly dies in every Star Wars movie. Its a bad ass gun. Kylo survived, managed to track down Fin and Rey and fight them.

You have a point with the cross bow shot, however, Fin was on trash duty and "freaked out" on his first fighting mission, so I guess he is not as badass as he could be if he was a seasoned trooper.
Also, his (probable) cousin defeats him right after the fight with Fin, I understand that the force is strong within her and that can explain why he couldn't break her while she was in custody, but she has 0 saber training. him on the other hand, regardless of his wounds single-handedly killed all of Luke's Padawans and has probably trained since he was old enough to walk.
I think that baddies in Star Wars movies should be much more badass than he is.
Darth Vader aside, even Darth Maul was able to (almost successfully) take on 2 trained Jedi knights on his own.

I would have liked a little more flamboyance than just surviving a Wookie shot.


Oh, and he should really keep his helmet on at all times even though, as mentioned above, he doesn't need it for anything else than not looking like a teenage douche.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

His light saber is badass tho.

Yeah, it breaks computer consoles like nothing else in the galaxy.

[Scott McD]

I read about George Lucks being pissed because the story Disney used for this movie was nothing like what he had in mind and they just did their own thing.

That's what happens George when you sell up, and fuck up the previous 3 movies anyway...

[Tom-LifeSelector]

I hope the next episode will be much better...

[bronco67]

At first I was kind of shocked when he went apeshit on that console with his lightsaber, and I ended up enjoying that scene. I thought it was an interesting departure from Darth Vader, having Kylo Ren be a young guy with still much to learn. The best villains are their own worst enemy, and something in their personality gets them off track from victory.

Remember near the end, Snoke said he was recalling him to finish his training -- so it's not like he's some kind of stoic jedi master. The way he was portrayed for this particular chapter in the story made total sense to me. He'll come back more powerful and maybe a little more in control of his emotions.

[ClickCashEmily]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

Also, his (probable) cousin defeats him right after the fight with Fin, I understand that the force is strong within her and that can explain why he couldn't break her while she was in custody, but she has 0 saber training. him on the other hand, regardless of his wounds single-handedly killed all of Luke's Padawans and has probably trained since he was old enough to walk.

I've heard this before but if you re-watch, you'll see that she sorta starts using the lightsaber like she wielded her staff. And we saw from the strategic fights she's in through the movie that she's pretty handy with it.

Additionally, Ren was told to bring her to Snoke. So Ren wasn't trying to kill her during the fight. Between that and fighting with still-bleeding wounds, I can see where she would have more of an upper hand.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by ClickCashEmily

I've heard this before but if you re-watch, you'll see that she sorta starts using the lightsaber like she wielded her staff. And we saw from the strategic fights she's in through the movie that she's pretty handy with it.

Additionally, Ren was told to bring her to Snoke. So Ren wasn't trying to kill her during the fight. Between that and fighting with still-bleeding wounds, I can see where she would have more of an upper hand.

Again, all of this make sense, maybe it's just me being thrown off by the teenager face of the actor, but I still wonder how he could stop a blaster shot blind sided and then struggle so much in the last fight.

Also, the blatant lack of respect of General Hux towards him didn't help (the scene when they discuss how to retrieve the rogue trooper and the droid). Vader would have force choke the shit out of him for much less.

Maybe Episode VIII will confirm what you say and he will be a fully trained "Sith" lord packing a lot more meat.
For now I would much rather bump into him in a dark alley than his granddad.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

Also, the blatant lack of respect of General Hux towards him didn't help (the scene when they discuss how to retrieve the rogue trooper and the droid). Vader would have force choke the shit out of him for much less.

.

They're both kids in a spat basically, so I understand the attitude the general has toward him. I don't think there was any impression given that Kylo Ren was someone of Darth Vader's stature or status. He was attempting to fill those shoes but immaturity was holding him back. Gives room for the character to develop over the series.

[ClickCashEmily]

I ain't got no respect for a Vader groupie. And Abrams has said that Ren isn't a Sith (yet - he said he's not a Sith in Ep VII).

Snoke even said Ren needed to come visit him to complete his training. Hopefully Ep VII will show him less whiny bitch Anakin and more kick-ass-Death-With-a-Cape Vader.

[HeadPimp]

I definitely agree. While I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, by and large it felt like a reboot of the first movie.

Was happy that the force again is a mysterious power of the universe instead of some bacteria in certain people or however they were trying to explain it when Lucas was directing.

Originally Posted by C H R I S

I agree - villains were crap. The giant holographic supreme leader looked like a disney exhibit.

Overall I thought it was entertaining but basically I payed $10.00 to watch the original star wars with new characters.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by bronco67

They're both kids in a spat basically, so I understand the attitude the general has toward him. I don't think there was any impression given that Kylo Ren was someone of Darth Vader's stature or status. He was attempting to fill those shoes but immaturity was holding him back. Gives room for the character to develop over the series.

YES, that's what I mean in a way.
I understand the big bad guy in the making thing.
My concern is that there would have been ways to make him develop without having to picture him as a troubled teenager with a strong Oeudipus Complex (and a light saber).

Anakin is left for dead at the end of Episode III.
Luke is left for dead at the end of Episode V.

They both come back later much stronger, but both were bested by characters with better training / experience. It sounds legit.

Here, I wouldn't mind as much if he struggled to beat Rey or if Luke came back just to kick his ass. As it stands for me there's a lack of consistency between scenes:
- The force stopping of the blaster shot vs the fight against Finn
- The (ridiculous and unnecessary) console destroying scene vs not jumping General Hux on the spot during the argument.

Again, it's overall a good movie but baddies have always been the meat and bones of Star Wars movies, this one is - for me - a let down on that aspect.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by ClickCashEmily

I ain't got no respect for a Vader groupie.

Han Solo fan here. (Maybe I'll stop watching now )

Originally Posted by ClickCashEmily

And Abrams has said that Ren isn't a Sith (yet - he said he's not a Sith in Ep VII).

That's why I put it in between quotes, still rings better to me than Knight of Ren. :D

[ClickCashEmily]

I think part of the problem with Ren is that he's not entirely all bad. He's talking to the burnt husk of Grandpa's mask to please help him... that he feels the light coming back.

I think that's the cause of a lot of him coming across the way he is. He's got these internal struggles that are outwardly manifesting at odd times. He felt totally in control in the beginning because he had all his badass Storm Troopers and Captain Phasma with him and he's after just an old man.

But later on, he's struggling feeling his dad nearby, feeling "the light" creeping in. And I think THAT internal struggle is why we got the stupid temper tantrum in the control room vs. force-choking the shit out of Hux. He definitely isn't a good movie heavy. I don't think we really had one in Ep VII.

I think that now that he's killed his dad, we will probably have a way more bad ass Ren for Ep VIII. Plus maybe he'll train with Snoke between now and then.

[ClickCashEmily]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

Han Solo fan here. (Maybe I'll stop watching now )

Cannot WAIT FOR THE HAN SOLO MOVIE! #TeamFalcon

Originally Posted by AntonMG

That's why I put it in between quotes, still rings better to me than Knight of Ren. :D

Ah, missed the quotes. my bad

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by ClickCashEmily

I think that now that he's killed his dad, we will probably have a way more bad ass Ren for Ep VIII. Plus maybe he'll train with Snoke between now and then.

I hope so!
Again, it's my biggest concern, I get the fact that he is a bad guy in the making, not ready yet, however, I would have liked more subtlety (or I should say consistency) in the way they did it.

Originally Posted by ClickCashEmily

Cannot WAIT FOR THE HAN SOLO MOVIE! #TeamFalcon

Oooooh yeah!

Originally Posted by ClickCashEmily

Ah, missed the quotes. my bad

No worries

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

Seriously, the guy is just a fucking teenager with a light saber.

That's how the was intended to be portrayed.

He was a noob with a basic dark side training and a shitty lightsaber.

He was conflicted with the light side and tried to show off what a bad ass he was every chance he got. He even killed his father in an attempt to re-assure himself of his darkside affiliation / badassness.

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

So why exactly does he wear a mask?

Vader needed it. Him however ??

To appear more badass. There supposedly was an order of his kind - Knights of Ren. It was their attire. Kinda similar to medieval Knights Templar.

[ClickCashEmily]

I actually heard there's a lot more in the novelization than made it onto the screen (or, in the book to explain more what was on the screen... I don't know the order of how those are written vs. filmed). And that it sorta explains some of the gaps that are bothering us about Ren. Might have to pick it up

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by Ajokki

At first, when he stopped the lazer, he seemed like a badass, but then...well, you know...

He had a strong connection to the force but he had little self control / emotional control.

When he killed his father, this got him very emotionally distracted (along with taking a bowcaster shot to the gut) and couldn't focus properly. That's why he got beat by the girl.

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

His light saber is badass tho.

It's not. It was actually very poorly made, and needed to have these side exhaust ports to stabilize the blade.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

It's not. It was actually very poorly made, and needed to have these side exhaust ports to stabilize the blade.

That is actually very interesting!
If I understand your comment properly, that would mean Kylo Ren did a sloppy job building his lightsaber.
It aligns well with the character.

[selena]

I thought that the lightsaber reflected the carrier? Sort of how his was all jaggedy meant that he was conflicted?

I could be wrong on that.

I was mixed on the movie. It was fun to watch, but DV was the most badass of all badasses, so when the mask was removed, and it was ...well...just totally not what I expected. I get that there is a character arc that we have not seen play out yet, but I wanted to *see* someone who looked capable of being a badass.

The actor totally didn't work for me in that regard.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by selena

I get that there is a character arc that we have not seen play out yet, but I wanted to *see* someone who looked capable of being a badass.

The actor totally didn't work for me in that regard.

THIS!!!!

[atom]

Pretty much anything Star Wars you want to know - Kylo Ren - Wookieepedia - Wikia

Kylo Ren was a male human. Before he adopted the name of Kylo Ren, he was known as Ben. As Kylo Ren, he wore a black hood and cloak, a dark mask, and wielded a dangerous and crudely-built lightsaber he assembled himself. Ren wore a mask and helmet that altered his voice much like Darth Vader, his idol. However, unlike Vader, who needed a mask to keep him alive and hide a severely burned physique, Ren did not need a mask. It can be argued that he adopted a mask to be more like his grandfather, furthering the symbolism that the dark side acts as a tomb. His lightsaber, based on an ancient design dating back to the Great Scourge of Malachor, relied upon a cracked kyber crystal that could barely contain the power of the weapon, necessitating the lateral plasma vents that produced its signature crossguard quillons. The fractured crystal was also responsible for the unstable, serrated appearance of the weapon's red plasma blades. The crossguard exhaust ports were also useful in combat, such as when Kylo and Finn were pushing their lightsabers against one another, and Kylo was able to injure Finn's shoulder with his crossguard.

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

That is actually very interesting!
If I understand your comment properly, that would mean Kylo Ren did a sloppy job building his lightsaber.
It aligns well with the character.

Correct.

Kylo Ren had a very basic dark side training and was a noob. (He did have a deep connection to the force due to his grandfather - Vader - and was proficient in some force skills - like mind reading. But he had little control over it).

That's why he sucked so much (and was being bossed around by the young First Order fleet General). I expect when he completes his training with Snoke, he's gonna be much more deadly.

[bronco67]

Whether you like Kylo Ren or not, at least we can tell from this discussion that there's some depth in the character.

[selena]

I have a related question that has been bugging me, but I haven't had time to sift through tons of stuff online to try to find the answer.

We know that Anakin killed the younglings, and that there is a lot derived from the other movies. We know that Luke was teaching Jedi, and was betrayed. We also saw the vision that Rey had when she touched the light saber. There are definitely bodies strewn about, and what appears to be Kylo Ren.

So the impression is certainly given that Kylo Ren killed the trainees.

But does the movie every outright say that? If so, I missed it.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

Yeah, it breaks computer consoles like nothing else in the galaxy.

I lol'd.

[astronaut x]

Kylo is meant to be petulant. Driver did a great fucking job if you ask me. Not scary? He holds a great amount of power. He is very reckless with it. Very unpredictable to be around. Lets not also forget who is related to and who was teaching him . This is not about Kylo Ren, this is about fucking with the psyche of Luke. Fucking with Han and Leia are just an extra bonus. It also shows that the dark side is desperate.

And to all the whiners saying the movie is just a remake, well so what. Its pretty fucking badass actually.

[j3rkules]

Originally Posted by selena

I thought that the lightsaber reflected the carrier? Sort of how his was all jaggedy meant that he was conflicted?

I could be wrong on that.

I was mixed on the movie. It was fun to watch, but DV was the most badass of all badasses, so when the mask was removed, and it was ...well...just totally not what I expected. I get that there is a character arc that we have not seen play out yet, but I wanted to *see* someone who looked capable of being a badass.

The actor totally didn't work for me in that regard.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by selena

I have a related question that has been bugging me, but I haven't had time to sift through tons of stuff online to try to find the answer.

We know that Anakin killed the younglings, and that there is a lot derived from the other movies. We know that Luke was teaching Jedi, and was betrayed. We also saw the vision that Rey had when she touched the light saber. There are definitely bodies strewn about, and what appears to be Kylo Ren.

So the impression is certainly given that Kylo Ren killed the trainees.

But does the movie every outright say that? If so, I missed it.

I've seen it "only" once, but I'm pretty sure it's how Han explains to Rey why Luke vanished. I think he tells her that Kylo Ren was his padawan, that he threw a tantrum resulting in everyone dead and Luke fucking off to find his inner self.

It might also be the scene between Leia and Han in the resistance shelter but I lean towards the first one.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

So why exactly does he wear a mask?

Vader needed it. Him however ??

to look like his grand father and be more charismatic

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by ClickCashEmily

I actually heard there's a lot more in the novelization than made it onto the screen (or, in the book to explain more what was on the screen... I don't know the order of how those are written vs. filmed). And that it sorta explains some of the gaps that are bothering us about Ren. Might have to pick it up

i don't want to read a book to understand a movie. Period.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by pornmasta

i don't want to read a book to understand a movie. Period.

Neither should you have to.
I'm with you on this one. A movie should be self explanatory.

[HowlingWulf]

Well this turned out to be a surprisingly good thread. No, seriously. Lots of good points.

[ilnjscb]

If they're both idiot kids, how did they marshal the resources to build a 20x death star that sucks suns?

The villains were crap. Two teenagers who just met easily defeated them with a weapon they barely understand.

They can build an entire planet that can destroy other planets, but they get defeated by ancient Han Solo (who can't defeat 20 lowlife gangsters) and two meet cute kids with zero experience. Sure storm troopers are trained .... to flip theatrically in the air when they die after being hit by one shot. After he turns good, FN is basically killing dudes left and right. Stupid.

[hottoddy]

Yes, it kinda sucked for the reasons stated above. Sure there is some fun eye candy and nostalgic bits ... BUT it was marred by poor story telling, weak villains and unoriginal ideas. I saw the original Star Wars about a dozen times in the theater. Once is enough for this one.

As terrible as the prequel movies were, I'm realizing they did a better job telling a story.

[AntonMG]

Originally Posted by ilnjscb

They can build an entire planet that can destroy other planets, but they get defeated by ancient Han Solo (who can't defeat 20 lowlife gangsters) and two meet cute kids with zero experience.

It's even worse than that:
They can't do shit to deactivate the shields, however, they magically stumble upon Captain Phasma who's the head of all Storm troopers.
She gives in without a fight and nicely deactivate the shields for them.
Technically she had the choice between death and betrayal then death and chose the later.

It doesn't make sense...

I don't want to sound like I consider this movie as shit, I think it was pretty decent, but it's full of inconsistencies and loopholes that are not worthy of the saga.

[RebelR]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

Hey,
I've seen the latest Star Wars during the holidays and I must say that as much as it is 100% better than Episodes 1-3, The vilains were a complete let down for me.

Seriously, the guy is just a fucking teenager with a light saber.
The kind that smashes his room because he's grounded for a week...
He even struggles to beat a former (inexperienced) storm trooper during a light saber fight... pathetic
I was half expecting him to fuck off on a skateboard after he's done with his Eudipus complex.

Talking about Kylo Ren, this twitter account really nailed it (IMOO):
https://twitter.com/KyloR3n

Surprisingly it was one of the things that wasn't an issue for me. The whole Emo thing and the tantrums is what gave credence to his inability to match Rey when he was trying to extract the info he needed, and will more than likely be explained in the next episode as to why he and Luke parted ways. Suffering from an inferiority complex. And part of what gives Snoke the control he exacts over him.

I enjoyed the film, it wasn't stellar for me. I think that Rey was portrayed very well. Finn, well that could have been played better. I would expect less "Street" from a soldier that was taken as a child and raised with a single purpose. Some of the story suffered at the expense of needing more battle scenes. Not sure why R2 was immobile until the exact moment that his info was needed.

[selena]

Originally Posted by AntonMG

I've seen it "only" once, but I'm pretty sure it's how Han explains to Rey why Luke vanished. I think he tells her that Kylo Ren was his padawan, that he threw a tantrum resulting in everyone dead and Luke fucking off to find his inner self.

It might also be the scene between Leia and Han in the resistance shelter but I lean towards the first one.

You may be right on that. I've only seen it once too, and what I remember was it (Luke's defunct training) having ended due to a betrayal. Hopefully that will be expounded upon going forward.

[ClickCashEmily]

Originally Posted by selena

I have a related question that has been bugging me, but I haven't had time to sift through tons of stuff online to try to find the answer.

We know that Anakin killed the younglings, and that there is a lot derived from the other movies. We know that Luke was teaching Jedi, and was betrayed. We also saw the vision that Rey had when she touched the light saber. There are definitely bodies strewn about, and what appears to be Kylo Ren.

So the impression is certainly given that Kylo Ren killed the trainees.

But does the movie every outright say that? If so, I missed it.

In the movie, Han Solo says that Luke was training a new generation of Jedi, and one of the ones he was training turned on him and destroyed it. The Wookieepedia seems to believe he did, in fact, kill them, but we haven't actually SEEN anything on the screen that says it specifically. The internetz are based on some canon, some speculation.

IMO: I don't think Kylo Ren killed them. He may have led the Knights of Ren there to destroy them, but I don't think *REN* lifted a light saber to anyone. And I think THIS is why it's so important that he kills Han.

Just thinking about little Emo Ben... trying to be the big, baddie like Grandpa but having too much good like Mommy and Uncle Luke in him. If he had slaughtered a bunch of (potentially young) Jedi trainees, that should have put an end to a lot of the light side/dark side struggle he's going through. That's why he had to kill Han. Or felt like he did. Because that would cement that he's #TeamDarkside and maybe stop the ickle Light Side feelings he's been suppressing and fighting with.