Where the dabbers?

[Lace]

How's the concentrate game going over there? Coming across that stuff here is usually upwards of $70/gram and your lucky if it's worth a fuck. Thinking about playing with rosin tech and seeing if I can get some decent yields...or taking a trip to Colorado come summer.


Cannot wait till the east coast legalizes it.

btw - lets see some rigs. those mothership pieces are nasty!

[dyna mo]

I dab labtested only. Wax, not shatter. Just a basic all glass bubbler with a titanium nail. I have a butane blow torch that kills with this rig.

I doubt concentrates will be legalized here in Cali. Are they legal in Colo?

[Lace]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

I dab labtested only. Wax, not shatter. Just a basic all glass bubbler with a titanium nail. I have a butane blow torch that kills with this rig.

I doubt concentrates will be legalized here in Cali. Are they legal in Colo?

As far as I know. I have a middle-eastern "tobacco outlet" glass bubbler and glass nail myself. Do you like the ti better than glass?

[escorpio]

4 grams for $100 in Seattle.

[Lace]

Originally Posted by escorpio

4 grams for $100 in Seattle.

Wow.

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by Lace

Wow.

$35 if you only buy one gram

[Far-L]

Dabs = weed crack

Big rant coming...

1. Testing almost means zero. We blind tested labs and got huge variance in results. Part of it is the sensitivity of the testing. Part is lab procedure. All of it is too uncertain to base health decisions on - especially considering product produced using any of the "tanes" butane, entane, etc. Parts per million of anything that carcinogenic is not something I would want in any part. Better make sure the testing includes a solvent screen. It won't be accurate, but at least it is something. Just having potency test is not enough and too many try to cut corners for paying for that only. Legal states are a bit better, but medical you better know the lab and how good their testing is and how well the staff is trained in lab procedure. The top rated lab I know for legal in WA I don't trust at all.

2. The quest for purity comes at the expense of many of the healthful parts of the flower.

3. The potency is the end of the road. Get a tolerance to something that powerful and there is nowhere else to go. All that is left is to basically turn into a dribbling speechless stoner. There are hard core dabbers I know that have the sweaty catatonia of opiate junkies.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Dabs = weed crack

Big rant coming...

1. Testing almost means zero. We blind tested labs and got huge variance in results. Part of it is the sensitivity of the testing. Part is lab procedure. All of it is too uncertain to base health decisions on - especially considering product produced using any of the "tanes" butane, entane, etc. Parts per million of anything that carcinogenic is not something I would want in any part. Better make sure the testing includes a solvent screen. It won't be accurate, but at least it is something. Just having potency test is not enough and too many try to cut corners for paying for that only. Legal states are a bit better, but medical you better know the lab and how good their testing is and how well the staff is trained in lab procedure. The top rated lab I know for legal in WA I don't trust at all.

2. The quest for purity comes at the expense of many of the healthful parts of the flower.

3. The potency is the end of the road. Get a tolerance to something that powerful and there is nowhere else to go. All that is left is to basically turn into a dribbling speechless stoner. There are hard core dabbers I know that have the sweaty catatonia of opiate junkies.

what are you saying? what about vaping concentrates?

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

what are you saying? what about vaping concentrates?

Saying stay away from bho style concentrates as a preferred product regardless of method of consumption. This means wax, shatter, oils, etc. I can smell the solvent literally in just about every one I put to my nostrils. People use those solvents for the higher yield... all about the dollar, not the health of the consumer/patient.

Co2 is the way to go for a clean extraction but it is less aggressive a solvent so the purity, without using any sort of winterization method that removes terps, will not be typically as potent. It can be made into a "goo" if it is kept in a vacuum to remove the h2o to create a dabbable product, but because if requires more to produce less it is therefore more expensive but at least you don't have to worry about residuals, (measured in parts per million, butane etc)

[Deej]

You're smart so I trust your word. If BHO is properly purged... isn't most of the health risk avoided? Ar eyou just warning people of the potency tolerancE?

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Deej

You're smart so I trust your word. If BHO is properly purged... isn't most of the health risk avoided? Ar eyou just warning people of the potency tolerancE?

No, the potency issue is more a matter of personal choice. Some patients might need that level of potency, but people that are just using it for recreational are another matter entirely. If they want to end up where they have to dab all day long just to catch a buzz then that is their problem. I just wouldn't want that for myself.

My biggest issue is that most labs use the cheaper, less sensitive, Mass Spectrometry and Gas Chromatography equipment to find residual solvents and traces of chemicals, which might include: Acetone, Butane, Propane, Pentane, Hexane, Heptane, Ethanol, Isopropanol (iso-alcohol), etc. So, those machines test to a certain level of sensitivity and approximate anything less than (x)parts per million.

When you are talking a product that is going to be completely consumed then that risk becomes an inevitable part of consumption. None of those "tanes" are things you want to inhale imho even if the State says a certain amount is acceptable. States ok'd things like spraying crops with ddt, diverting water in Michigan, etc so I don't have the greatest trust in the ability for gov. to address things like this.

The other difficulty is that even those producers that do purge properly can't remove everything. However, most, and I have sat in line at the testing facilities listening to producers discuss their purge, don't actually do enough purging because it adds time and money to the process. I have heard some brag about having a few hundred parts per million like "isn't that great". Freaks me out. I don't want the canna industry to end up where tobacco has in terms of health risks due to the manner of processing and preservation.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Dabs = weed crack

Big rant coming...

1. Testing almost means zero. We blind tested labs and got huge variance in results. Part of it is the sensitivity of the testing. Part is lab procedure. All of it is too uncertain to base health decisions on - especially considering product produced using any of the "tanes" butane, entane, etc. Parts per million of anything that carcinogenic is not something I would want in any part. Better make sure the testing includes a solvent screen. It won't be accurate, but at least it is something. Just having potency test is not enough and too many try to cut corners for paying for that only. Legal states are a bit better, but medical you better know the lab and how good their testing is and how well the staff is trained in lab procedure. The top rated lab I know for legal in WA I don't trust at all.

2. The quest for purity comes at the expense of many of the healthful parts of the flower.

3. The potency is the end of the road. Get a tolerance to something that powerful and there is nowhere else to go. All that is left is to basically turn into a dribbling speechless stoner. There are hard core dabbers I know that have the sweaty catatonia of opiate junkies.

we squeeze the rosin out with hot plates

[Deej]

Originally Posted by Far-L

No, the potency issue is more a matter of personal choice. Some patients might need that level of potency, but people that are just using it for recreational are another matter entirely. If they want to end up where they have to dab all day long just to catch a buzz then that is their problem. I just wouldn't want that for myself.

My biggest issue is that most labs use the cheaper, less sensitive, Mass Spectrometry and Gas Chromatography equipment to find residual solvents and traces of chemicals, which might include: Acetone, Butane, Propane, Pentane, Hexane, Heptane, Ethanol, Isopropanol (iso-alcohol), etc. So, those machines test to a certain level of sensitivity and approximate anything less than (x)parts per million.

When you are talking a product that is going to be completely consumed then that risk becomes an inevitable part of consumption. None of those "tanes" are things you want to inhale imho even if the State says a certain amount is acceptable. States ok'd things like spraying crops with ddt, diverting water in Michigan, etc so I don't have the greatest trust in the ability for gov. to address things like this.

The other difficulty is that even those producers that do purge properly can't remove everything. However, most, and I have sat in line at the testing facilities listening to producers discuss their purge, don't actually do enough purging because it adds time and money to the process. I have heard some brag about having a few hundred parts per million like "isn't that great". Freaks me out. I don't want the canna industry to end up where tobacco has in terms of health risks due to the manner of processing and preservation.

well put... as always

[Deej]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

we squeeze the rosin out with hot plates

well technically that's not dabs though. Live rosin.

[Deej]

Originally Posted by Deej

well technically that's not dabs though. Live rosin.

I don't know, personally I don;t get that concept... but some guy argued it to me at a THC fair soooo... whatever. I think dab just has to do with method of smoking right... not method of extraction...

So... whatever. I recant... some weirdo said that shit to me once though.

[ITraffic]

.............

[BlackCrayon]

i smoked 'bho' hash oil for years daily and eventually seemed to really fuck up my throat. gave me heartburn and shit. switched to just smoking weed and all that went away. i'm guessing this new 'dabbing' stuff is cleaner and made with better quality bud instead of shake or whatever but fuck is its too easy to cut the stuff with god knows what.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

we squeeze the rosin out with hot plates

Rosin method extraction is solventless. It is definitely better.

[MiamiBoyz]

Originally Posted by escorpio

4 grams for $100 in Seattle.

Of course the down side is that you have to actually live in Washington state.

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by Deej

I don't know, personally I don;t get that concept... but some guy argued it to me at a THC fair soooo... whatever. I think dab just has to do with method of smoking right... not method of extraction...

So... whatever. I recant... some weirdo said that shit to me once though.

Dabbing is a smoking method. You can dab bubble hash, rosin, bho, co2 and clear.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Deej

I don't know, personally I don;t get that concept... but some guy argued it to me at a THC fair soooo... whatever. I think dab just has to do with method of smoking right... not method of extraction...

So... whatever. I recant... some weirdo said that shit to me once though.

Rosin technique uses a combination of heat and pressure to do the extraction without use of solvents. BHO stands for "butane hash oil" and is derived from extractions involving a solvent - each solvent has a certain specific range of what it manages to effectively extract so that is why some prefer entane or pentane etc.

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Rosin technique uses a combination of heat and pressure to do the extraction without use of solvents. BHO stands for "butane hash oil" and is derived from extractions involving a solvent - each solvent has a certain specific range of what it manages to effectively extract so that is why some prefer entane or pentane etc.

What happened to Homegrown cartridges? Haven't seen them for awhile.

[escorpio]

Originally Posted by MiamiBoyz

Of course the down side is that you have to actually live in Washington state.

You got that right. As soon as Arizona goes legal it's back to Tucson for me.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Saying stay away from bho style concentrates as a preferred product regardless of method of consumption. This means wax, shatter, oils, etc. I can smell the solvent literally in just about every one I put to my nostrils. People use those solvents for the higher yield... all about the dollar, not the health of the consumer/patient.

Co2 is the way to go for a clean extraction but it is less aggressive a solvent so the purity, without using any sort of winterization method that removes terps, will not be typically as potent. It can be made into a "goo" if it is kept in a vacuum to remove the h2o to create a dabbable product, but because if requires more to produce less it is therefore more expensive but at least you don't have to worry about residuals, (measured in parts per million, butane etc)

Appreciated. What about the concentrates they're making up for vaping now?

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by escorpio

What happened to Homegrown cartridges? Haven't seen them for awhile.

Unfortunately in limbo with license and can't do them in medical any more. Killing me I tell ya.

Thanks for asking though. If you know anyone that needs to add processing and wants to do Co2 then we would certainly be up for discussing it.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Rosin method extraction is solventless. It is definitely better.

I don't smoke much of the stuff either... prefer Keif myself

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Unfortunately in limbo with license and can't do them in medical any more. Killing me I tell ya.

Thanks for asking though. If you know anyone that needs to add processing and wants to do Co2 then we would certainly be up for discussing it.

can't legally ship the stuff across state lines

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

I don't smoke much of the stuff either... prefer Keif myself

Yeah, I completely agree.

I don't need the 99.99999999% pure thc. I like the terpenes etc. Our goal has always been to stay as close to flower as possible with extractions, not make potency the be all end all. Our goal is to taste like keif. Smell like keif. The higher potency is ok, but is just a happy consequence. Folks should just take another puff if they want to be twice as stoned. Anything in the 30% to 40% range is actually quite potent.

Heck, if the flower was good at an average of 14.00% thc which most people not knowing better would say is "super strong" (yes, there is much better/stronger flower out there but potency testing is another rant I could go off on) then hearing them complain that an extract was unworthy even though it was twice that at 28% thc just drives me nuts.

But oh well... being legal, tested, etc. is better than not having that info.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Yeah, I completely agree.

I don't need the 99.99999999% pure thc. I like the terpenes etc. Our goal has always been to stay as close to flower as possible with extractions, not make potency the be all end all. Our goal is to taste like keif. Smell like keif. The higher potency is ok, but is just a happy consequence. Folks should just take another puff if they want to be twice as stoned. Anything in the 30% to 40% range is actually quite potent.

Heck, if the flower was good at an average of 14.00% thc which most people not knowing better would say is "super strong" (yes, there is much better/stronger flower out there but potency testing is another rant I could go off on) then hearing them complain that an extract was unworthy even though it was twice that at 28% thc just drives me nuts.

But oh well... being legal, tested, etc. is better than not having that info.

yes thinking EVERYTHING will be tested... I think the way to go is grow better flower, grew some private reserve outside, tested in at almost 20% and the deathstar came in at 17%...

[ITraffic]

only noobs / kids want to get completely fucking blasted high off one little toke.

what is the enjoyment in that?

it's not crack or meth.

the problem was weed becomes legalized / accepted it will take on the desires / tastes / expectations of your average lowest common denominator consumer, as you see happening now.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by ITraffic

only noobs / kids want to get completely fucking blasted high off one little toke.

what is the enjoyment in that?

it's not crack or meth.

the problem was weed becomes legalized / accepted it will take on the desires / tastes / expectations of your average lowest common denominator consumer, as you see happening now.

wrong on all counts.

[JD]

You can get it down to like $15g at some shops but shit that's just trash. Fucking reclaim I bet. Doesn't even smell like cannabis at all more like plant tar or something.

The 2 shops I use have wax/shatter/sugar grams that are light tan for $30g with Clear at $45g. Co2 grams can get down to $20g.

As far as I know though in WA using "tanes" is illegal as of this past summer. Propane Honey Oil is popping up everywhere like the rosin did.

The flavor of *HO is far superior to shop bough rosin (from flower) in every way. Shop rosin made from full-melt and rosin I've pressed myself however is outstanding consistency, flavor and effects.

[VSKevin]

I tend to stick to flower. Each and every time I try concentrates here in SoCal, I just die for approximately 8 hours. Maybe it's just me, but I always feel like it's smoking myself stupid.

They do have some cool rigs though:

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by ITraffic

only noobs / kids want to get completely fucking blasted high off one little toke.

what is the enjoyment in that?

it's not crack or meth.

the problem was weed becomes legalized / accepted it will take on the desires / tastes / expectations of your average lowest common denominator consumer, as you see happening now.

well ideally you want to inhale as little smoke as possible. i dont want to smoke huge blunts of crappy weed just because its fun. i'd rather smoke one hit of good shit and save my lungs.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by JD

You can get it down to like $15g at some shops but shit that's just trash. Fucking reclaim I bet. Doesn't even smell like cannabis at all more like plant tar or something.

The 2 shops I use have wax/shatter/sugar grams that are light tan for $30g with Clear at $45g. Co2 grams can get down to $20g.

As far as I know though in WA using "tanes" is illegal as of this past summer. Propane Honey Oil is popping up everywhere like the rosin did.

The flavor of *HO is far superior to shop bough rosin (from flower) in every way. Shop rosin made from full-melt and rosin I've pressed myself however is outstanding consistency, flavor and effects.

The color / clarity is a consumer perception issue imo. The light tan or translucent green tinted stuff sells better, but that doesn't mean it is better. So many factors play on the color, consistency, potency etc. - filtration, solvent, vacuum, temperature, humidity, etc. so something that is light tan doesn't necessarily mean it is better, nor whether it comes out as a wax/shatter/sugar. For example, even the external temperature in relation to the relative humidity can play a factor whether one run comes out wax and the very next comes out shatter.

I don't think there is a single what I would call "Budweiser" solution, where no matter where it is produced it will still taste and look the same. Budweiser has super strict quality controls to produce a consistent product the world over and any one that has done or knows microbrews will tell you how difficult that would be to achieve for beer, let alone canna concentrates.

In terms of weed, even two buds from the same exact plant can have wildly different qualities in terms of potency, terpene profile, etc. so that complicates things significantly. I think the industry will evolve to that level of quality control but it is not there yet imho.

Propane I think is the dirtiest solvent, especially since there are different qualities of propane, and the cleanest propane's expense goes back to the same issue I mentioned earlier - profit over health concerns.

[JD]

Originally Posted by Far-L

The color / clarity is a consumer perception issue imo. The light tan or translucent green tinted stuff sells better, but that doesn't mean it is better. So many factors play on the color, consistency, potency etc. - filtration, solvent, vacuum, temperature, humidity, etc. so something that is light tan doesn't necessarily mean it is better, nor whether it comes out as a wax/shatter/sugar. For example, even the external temperature in relation to the relative humidity can play a factor whether one run comes out wax and the very next comes out shatter.

I don't think there is a single what I would call "Budweiser" solution, where no matter where it is produced it will still taste and look the same. Budweiser has super strict quality controls to produce a consistent product the world over and any one that has done or knows microbrews will tell you how difficult that would be to achieve for beer, let alone canna concentrates.

In terms of weed, even two buds from the same exact plant can have wildly different qualities in terms of potency, terpene profile, etc. so that complicates things significantly. I think the industry will evolve to that level of quality control but it is not there yet imho.

Propane I think is the dirtiest solvent, especially since there are different qualities of propane, and the cleanest propane's expense goes back to the same issue I mentioned earlier - profit over health concerns.

I have to disagree with you on the color being purely perception. I've gone up and down the scale from ultra-high end to ultra-low and my experience has shown me that color is a primary sign of quality second only to aroma. Another great indicator is the amount of "stuff" left on the nail. The darker the gram the more "stuff"

You may call PHO dirty but I have nothing but good things to say about it from color, clarity, aroma and taste.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i smoked 'bho' hash oil for years daily and eventually seemed to really fuck up my throat. gave me heartburn and shit. switched to just smoking weed and all that went away. i'm guessing this new 'dabbing' stuff is cleaner and made with better quality bud instead of shake or whatever but fuck is its too easy to cut the stuff with god knows what.

so I've been keeping a jar of keif. when I role a joint I dump the extra into the jar of keif, sativa keif actually. the flower I've been rolling is both indca and sativa... the other day I took a shifter and shifted the keif back out. then took all the 'flower remains' that were left and ran that through a grinder and shifted again.. that produced some of the damdest product I've ever smoked... smooth as hell and ONE fucking hit will get you high as fuck. hard core smokers will stop after about 4 or 5 hits, last about an hour... lol!!!

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by JD

I have to disagree with you on the color being purely perception. I've gone up and down the scale from ultra-high end to ultra-low and my experience has shown me that color is a primary sign of quality second only to aroma. Another great indicator is the amount of "stuff" left on the nail. The darker the gram the more "stuff"

You may call PHO dirty but I have nothing but good things to say about it from color, clarity, aroma and taste.

Agree with you on importance of aroma and residue on nail, but I could blind test you on color and by those two factors could show you that color isn't everything. Although I also agree that something that is dark, smells like gasoline, and leaves residue sucks.

[420]

How much water could someone theoretically add to a gram of wax before it became noticable?

[Lace]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i smoked 'bho' hash oil for years daily and eventually seemed to really fuck up my throat. gave me heartburn and shit. switched to just smoking weed and all that went away. i'm guessing this new 'dabbing' stuff is cleaner and made with better quality bud instead of shake or whatever but fuck is its too easy to cut the stuff with god knows what.

I had some hash oil years ago and it was a black goopy substance. Like tar. Almost reminds me of today's reclaim. Nothing like what they have today.

Originally Posted by JD

You can get it down to like $15g at some shops but shit that's just trash. Fucking reclaim I bet. Doesn't even smell like cannabis at all more like plant tar or something.

The 2 shops I use have wax/shatter/sugar grams that are light tan for $30g with Clear at $45g. Co2 grams can get down to $20g.

As far as I know though in WA using "tanes" is illegal as of this past summer. Propane Honey Oil is popping up everywhere like the rosin did.

That sounds nasty. $15 a gram is flower prices. They using Mexishwag/trim?

Propane now? Meh.

Originally Posted by VSKevin

I tend to stick to flower. Each and every time I try concentrates here in SoCal, I just die for approximately 8 hours. Maybe it's just me, but I always feel like it's smoking myself stupid.

They do have some cool rigs though:

You're using too much. First few times I dabbed, I wanted to go night night. I wouldn't personally do it unless I was smoking regularly. Also, don't sit your ass on the couch. Get up and do something!

And you should see some of the rigs they have out. $xx,xxx+ Insaneee