Advice for affiliates and people thinking about starting something new

[Shap]

Here is another question I?ve been getting and thought I?d share the answer with everyone.

?Hi Shap, I?ve been an affiliate for the past 10 years. I do well but would like to start my own pay site. The problem is I don?t know much about the content world. What should i do??

?Hi Shap, I?ve been a photographer for 10 years. I?d love to start my own site. The problem is I don?t know how to get traffic or affiliates. What should I do??

?Shap! I have a great concept for a new pay site but I don?t know anything about content or traffic. What should i do??


The answer is find someone who excels in the areas you are weak in and partner up with them.

Many photographers and pay site owners have done this by partnering up with Gamma and MetArt for the affiliate side of the business. Affiliates haven?t been so quick to do the same. I think any affiliate with the ability to drive sales and traffic may be better suited by partnering up with 1 or 2 or 3 companies and working with them and having a partnership deal. The value of someone who can drive traffic, sales and brand awareness is far greater than what they are compensated for as an affiliate. If you are an affiliate driving 5 sales a day to a sponsor your value to that sponsor is probably double what you are getting paid. If you focus more time and have a bigger role with that company the end result will be greater for the affiliate and the pay site.

Here is an example. I remember at Twistys we had an affiliate named Toni from Macedonia. I Loved that guy. Tcstorm was his ID. He was awesome. Let?s say he was sending us 3 signups a day and getting paid 60% revshare and the average Twistys member worked out to be worth $65. Every day Toni was creating about $117 of overall affiliate revenue for himself (3 sales * ($65 * 60%)). But really how much value was Toni creating? Besides the actual sales he brings in there is?
- the brand awareness thanks to his promotion
- the traffic that bookmarks Twistys thanks to him and eventually joins in the future
- the person that becomes a members stays for a short period and rejoins in the future without his affiliate id
- the person who joins Twistys and spends more money inside as a member (cams, merchandise etc)

The list goes on and on. On top of that many affiliate sales aren?t tracked. I remember we once launched a brand new site that had 20 sales and 5 of them had no affiliate id even though it was all affiliate traffic (btw this always held true from affiliate software to ccbill or epoch you will never see 100% affiliate sales).

So when you add that up how much value is Toni really creating? He?s creating about $3500 of affiliate revenue for himself which is associated with about $5850 of affiliate attributed revenue (3 sales per day * 30 days * $65 value). What if when you add up all the benefits of what he?s bringing Twistys. His promotion may actually be adding close to $10,000 of value. And that is with Toni splitting his time between Twistys and 3 other companies. Maybe Toni has the potential to create $15,000 to $20,000 a month of value if he working only on Twistys.

What I?m trying to illustrate is a good affiliate has far greater value than what the check they are being paid may show.

If you own a pay site and you are struggling to grow I strongly suggest you look for a capable affiliate and try to create a partnership where they are more than just an affiliate to you they are a partner in the business. The long term results will be far greater even though you may end up giving a piece of your business up.

If you are an affiliate who?s skilled and trying to figure out how you can grow your business or position yourself for the future. Find companies you believe in that you think will be doing well in the next 2,3,4 years and try to work a deal with them where you are more than just an affiliate. You will benefit from being a part of a bigger entity and getting compensated on the whole pie rather than the piece of pie you bring in.

Hope this helps at least one person

[redwhiteandblue]

I've often thought that, when paysite owners complain that they have to pay affiliates 50%, actually affiliates aren't getting 50% because there is always a proportion of signups that aren't credited to the affiliate - no cookie accepted, cookies cleared, surfer browsed site on one device then signed up later on another, etc, etc.

[_Richard_]

as posted on the other board, nice to see recognition for smaller affiliates.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

as posted on the other board, nice to see recognition for smaller affiliates.

[Neighbor]

Hey Shap, how come smaller affiliates don't team up and create a powerhouse affiliate network?

Some of the larger companies are headed in this direction already, providing affiliates with a much larger choice of sites & products to promote, not only their own, all under one roof. No more having to log into 100 different affiliate programs to track stats and grab links.

If a few affiliates got together who were doing good numbers, got our NATS for Networks platform and created their own network....

a. It would be a fairly reasonable entry into the network space for them
b. track and monitor all the metrics they want, not just what they are provided
c. Add more affiliates to their network and take a little less of a % to have them promote their offerings...

Anyone looking to start a project like this, feel free to hit me up and I will give you a demo of the software and you can see how it makes sense.

I'm sure Shap could even give a bit of coaching to help you along....

Hey Shap, why don't you get this going? PM me

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Neighbor

Hey Shap, how come smaller affiliates don't team up and create a powerhouse affiliate network?

Some of the larger companies are headed in this direction already, providing affiliates with a much larger choice of sites & products to promote, not only their own, all under one roof. No more having to log into 100 different affiliate programs to track stats and grab links.

If a few affiliates got together who were doing good numbers, got our NATS for Networks platform and created their own network....

a. It would be a fairly reasonable entry into the network space for them
b. track and monitor all the metrics they want, not just what they are provided
c. Add more affiliates to their network and take a little less of a % to have them promote their offerings...

Anyone looking to start a project like this, feel free to hit me up and I will give you a demo of the software and you can see how it makes sense.

I'm sure Shap could even give a bit of coaching to help you along....

Hey Shap, why don't you get this going? PM me

Hey John! How are you?

That's a good idea. The only potential roadblock i see (and same applies to what I suggested) is most people in the industry over value themselves or are too greedy or are so bad financially can't even come up with a reasonable deal because they spend more then they make

[NoWhErE]

Originally Posted by Neighbor

Hey Shap, how come smaller affiliates don't team up and create a powerhouse affiliate network?

Some of the larger companies are headed in this direction already, providing affiliates with a much larger choice of sites & products to promote, not only their own, all under one roof. No more having to log into 100 different affiliate programs to track stats and grab links.

If a few affiliates got together who were doing good numbers, got our NATS for Networks platform and created their own network....

a. It would be a fairly reasonable entry into the network space for them
b. track and monitor all the metrics they want, not just what they are provided
c. Add more affiliates to their network and take a little less of a % to have them promote their offerings...

Anyone looking to start a project like this, feel free to hit me up and I will give you a demo of the software and you can see how it makes sense.

I'm sure Shap could even give a bit of coaching to help you along....

Hey Shap, why don't you get this going? PM me

You pretty much just described what we did over here at Crakrevenue. Except back then the NATS network product didn't exist, so we built our own in-house solution.

[altmman]

Originally Posted by Shap

The answer is find someone who excels in the areas you are weak in and partner up with them.

Any advice on where to find smart hard working people? Whenever I've posted ads on Craigslist I get dingbats. Last guy I tried to work with on CL turned out to be high on drugs and completely undependable.

[xXXtesy10]

[Shap]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

You pretty much just described what we did over here at Crakrevenue. Except back then the NATS network product didn't exist, so we built our own in-house solution.

Funny because I thought of you guys right away as i read his post

[Shap]

Originally Posted by altmman

Any advice on where to find smart hard working people? Whenever I've posted ads on Craigslist I get dingbats. Last guy I tried to work with on CL turned out to be high on drugs and completely undependable.

Craigslist is the last place I'd look for someone. What skill set are you looking for?

[altmman]

Originally Posted by Shap

Craigslist is the last place I'd look for someone. What skill set are you looking for?

CSS/redesign, to be more mobile friendly.
also Php to add more new features.

[fuzebox]

Creating my own paysite doubled my revenue in 2008. So many more options than pushing paysites as an affiliate.

Shooting amateur content on the cheap helped though, in no way would I have attempted to compete with Brazzers etc.

[johnnyloadproductions]

Originally Posted by Shap

Most people in the industry over value themselves or are too greedy or are so bad financially can't even come up with a reasonable deal because they spend more then they make

[Hannes]

Form partnership to try make up for what you don't know

[JamesAB]

CL is not the place to find quality adult webmasters to help you out.

No offense, but I'm not even convinced GFY is either considering the charlatan/good guy ratio here.
Yes, I'm a bitter old school fuck.

For example, I'm working with an amateur paysite making 20k a month with no affiliate program. They are dead set against adding one because they would have to deal with all the crazies that come out of the woodwork.

Some people could promote them for good money, however 99% might be GFY wannabees looking for free content or a free pass.
:

[Pornopat]

Excellent post that I will share with some affiliate programs.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Creating my own paysite doubled my revenue in 2008. So many more options than pushing paysites as an affiliate.

Shooting amateur content on the cheap helped though, in no way would I have attempted to compete with Brazzers etc.

You know your stuff and did it right.

[Paul Markham]

Many many years ago I tried to find someone who was good at the affiliate side. And failed every time.

They were asking for outrageous sums or percentages on the already established business or saying give me all the content and we will do a 50/50 split. Which ended up with me getting shafted or them working for a site that paid peanuts and demanding more content would be the answer.

Their greed cost them a lot of money and us.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

Creating my own paysite doubled my revenue in 2008. So many more options than pushing paysites as an affiliate.

Shooting amateur content on the cheap helped though, in no way would I have attempted to compete with Brazzers etc.

There are loads of smaller site owners and some bigger ones who would have made a lot more money teaming up with a content producer. And then taken on the big boys. Even Brazzers.

What held back 90% of affiliates, who opened their own sites, was the lack of ability to create a product that stood out. Finding, sorting, directing, creating, editing, a good product in the quantities required is a 40 hour a week job for a professional. How an amateur does it and then runs and manages his site with all the problems it creates. Is also a 40 hour a week job. what happens is they end up working 80 hours and failing at both.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Many many years ago I tried to find someone who was good at the affiliate side. And failed every time.

They were asking for outrageous sums or percentages on the already established business or saying give me all the content and we will do a 50/50 split. Which ended up with me getting shafted or them working for a site that paid peanuts and demanding more content would be the answer.

Their greed cost them a lot of money and us.

Greed is a big problem. But not only that vetting and finding the right person isn't easy either. People are lazy and don't do their homework. Finding the right people is hard hard work. When I was hiring for big positions within the company it took me well over a year to fill those positions. I got job applications and emails from every big name guy that you see bouncing from company to company but that's not what I wanted. I wanted to find the right person. The person that fit with me and our business. It took me almost 2 years to find Mpahlca and the time it took was well well worth it.

If it doesn't feel right it isn't right. Has to feel right from the beginning. Note as i type that I realize I don't follow my own advice enough.

[robwod]

Originally Posted by Shap

It took me almost 2 years to find Mpahlca and the time it took was well well worth it.

Michael is an incredibly helpful, insightful guy and someone for whom I have a boatload of respect for. I still think he picked the wrong coast, though, after Twistys.

That said, I'd also suggest Kevin was/is a hell of a pickup with his billing knowledge as well as his drive and determination. That guy cold called everyone. Heh, I remember sitting at home one day and the phone rang and I hear, "Hey, this is Kevin from Twistys. I'd like to work with you." That was 2005. To this day, I think he was one of the best affiliate managers in the industry. I've not talked to him in a few years, but he's likely enjoying life with his family. If you speak to him, tell him I said hi, please.

[TubeSubmitters]

Originally Posted by altmman

Any advice on where to find smart hard working people? Whenever I've posted ads on Craigslist I get dingbats. Last guy I tried to work with on CL turned out to be high on drugs and completely undependable.

Thats what you get for hiring XXXJay!

[gnawledge]

Excellent thread guys. Very informative.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by robwod

Michael is an incredibly helpful, insightful guy and someone for whom I have a boatload of respect for. I still think he picked the wrong coast, though, after Twistys.

That said, I'd also suggest Kevin was/is a hell of a pickup with his billing knowledge as well as his drive and determination. That guy cold called everyone. Heh, I remember sitting at home one day and the phone rang and I hear, "Hey, this is Kevin from Twistys. I'd like to work with you." That was 2005. To this day, I think he was one of the best affiliate managers in the industry. I've not talked to him in a few years, but he's likely enjoying life with his family. If you speak to him, tell him I said hi, please.

Funny I was going to mention Kevin as well but his hire was far different. It wasn't a case of him applying or me looking to hire. We just happened to be in the right place and right time to work together. Will do. I see Kevin usually 2 to 3 times a year. Really like him and our boys are great friends born a few days apart

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Shap

Greed is a big problem. But not only that vetting and finding the right person isn't easy either. People are lazy and don't do their homework. Finding the right people is hard hard work. When I was hiring for big positions within the company it took me well over a year to fill those positions. I got job applications and emails from every big name guy that you see bouncing from company to company but that's not what I wanted. I wanted to find the right person. The person that fit with me and our business. It took me almost 2 years to find Mpahlca and the time it took was well well worth it.

If it doesn't feel right it isn't right. Has to feel right from the beginning. Note as i type that I realize I don't follow my own advice enough.

Another problem is people back in the day, never saw the real value of the product. Too many were willing to buy cheap crap that had little difference to the other cheap crap available.

A content producer who could elevate the product above the rest was guaranteed to earn more offline than online. Yes online was stuck in a rut of underpaying for the product.

Look at the sites that broke that model. Twistys, Viv Thomas, Sapphic, DDF, etc. Then look at the people who stuck to the cheap crap model. Most were the first to go. Exceptions were people like Karrups who spent a fortune on quantity in the hope some of it was good.

[grzepa]

Hey Shap ,
I remember that guy too, he was using domain erotiqlinks or something like this. In these days I was also heavily promoting Twistys, made good money. Good old days :-)

[freecartoonporn]

Originally Posted by Neighbor

Hey Shap, how come smaller affiliates don't team up and create a powerhouse affiliate network?

Some of the larger companies are headed in this direction already, providing affiliates with a much larger choice of sites & products to promote, not only their own, all under one roof. No more having to log into 100 different affiliate programs to track stats and grab links.

If a few affiliates got together who were doing good numbers, got our NATS for Networks platform and created their own network....

a. It would be a fairly reasonable entry into the network space for them
b. track and monitor all the metrics they want, not just what they are provided
c. Add more affiliates to their network and take a little less of a % to have them promote their offerings...

Anyone looking to start a project like this, feel free to hit me up and I will give you a demo of the software and you can see how it makes sense.

I'm sure Shap could even give a bit of coaching to help you along....

Hey Shap, why don't you get this going? PM me

contacting you now.

thanks

[HowlingWulf]

An informative thread on GFY. I'm shocked - shocked I tell you.

Good stuff Shap.

[Neighbor]

Originally Posted by NoWhErE

You pretty much just described what we did over here at Crakrevenue. Except back then the NATS network product didn't exist, so we built our own in-house solution.

Hey Jason,

Yes I was made aware of the conversation between CR and us. Unfortunately before my time here.

HMU if you ever need anything or want to revisit. Always willing to put the BEST deal together

Hey John! How are you?

That's a good idea. The only potential roadblock i see (and same applies to what I suggested) is most people in the industry over value themselves or are too greedy or are so bad financially can't even come up with a reasonable deal because they spend more then they make

I agree Shap, but as Jason said, look at how well they are doing. If you can't get out of your own way and see the big picture, then I understand, but dayum, there is ALOT of opportunity for motivated people doing what I mentioned. Just takes that drive though

[Neighbor]

Originally Posted by freecartoonporn

contacting you now.

thanks

Thanks. Let me know how you are contacting me so I can look out for it. I am available on Skype, email and phone. You should have no problem reaching me.