Rant Paysite-cash not paying affiliates for all signups, be careful

[BigFurry]

Had a signup, got an email that it was removed from my affiliate account.

Because I hadn't done their tedious ID verification yet. They want ID scans, utility bill scans, phone number verification FROM AFFILIATES. It's very unusual, many people will just sigh, close the window, and rather promote other programs after seeing that. I did not, but I didn't bother doing the verification process before getting any signups.

So after the signup, I did all that. (Took many emails, their support and interface is NOT top notch.)

After getting verified, I requested that they add back to removed sale to my affiliate account.

The answer:

Hi

transactions already processed are not added to affiliate account while the verification was made after. this is our security policies

Messed up if you ask me.

[MaDalton]

well - for the merchant it's good to know that affiliates are thoroughly checked before they get paid - too many scammers out there and when you take business seriously, it shouldn't be a problem

and if i understand correctly, you dismissed their request at first

[BigFurry]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

well - for the merchant it's good to know that affiliates are thoroughly checked before they get paid - too many scammers out there and when you take business seriously, it shouldn't be a problem

and if i understand correctly, you dismissed their request at first

It's their choice that they require verification. I find it unusual and tedious, but I accept it.

The problem is that they let you grab the links codes, promote the websites, and make sales for them - all before the verification - and not pay you for those.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

It's their choice that they require verification. I find it unusual and tedious, but I accept it.

The problem is that they let you grab the links codes, promote the websites, and make sales for them - all before the verification - and not pay you for those.

Question is though did you do all of that after you read the verification?

[BigFurry]

Originally Posted by Roald

Question is though did you do all of that after you read the verification?

I saw the message that verification was needed. I do not remember the exact wording, but I never imagined that sales would not be credited. At other places they would only withhold payments until verification is complete, not remove sales from you.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

I saw the message that verification was needed. I do not remember the exact wording, but I never imagined that sales would not be credited. At other places they would only withhold payments until verification is complete, not remove sales from you.

well in that case if you did have the intend to verify yourself I would say just contact them and work it out. I am sure they will take care of it after verification.

Cheers!

[BigFurry]

Originally Posted by Roald

well in that case if you did have the intend to verify yourself I would say just contact them and work it out. I am sure they will take care of it after verification.

Cheers!

I did this, as I mentioned above.

They said that they wouldn't readd the sale.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

I did this, as I mentioned above.

They said that they wouldn't readd the sale.

Missed that, that's a bit lame i'd say

[xXXtesy10]

little bit of GONE FISHIN never heard nobody bro

[MaxPSC]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

I did this, as I mentioned above.

They said that they wouldn't readd the sale.

Indeed, we do not pay affiliates without going through the verification process.

Affiliate fraud is too common not to be taken seriously and our aim is always to protect our merchants against any kind of fraud.

For the sales you made, drop me an email and I will sort it out.

[email protected]

Max

[BigFurry]

Originally Posted by MaxPSC

Indeed, we do not pay affiliates without going through the verification process.

Affiliate fraud is too common not to be taken seriously and our aim is always to protect our merchants against any kind of fraud.

For the sales you made, drop me an email and I will sort it out.

[email protected]

Max

Thanks Max, appreciate it!

To avoid future affiliates having the same problem, I'd recommend hiding all link codes, promotion material, and stats links until the account is verified.

[MaxPSC]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

Thanks Max, appreciate it!

To avoid future affiliates having the same problem, I'd recommend hiding all link codes, promotion material, and stats links until the account is verified.

I will have a look at your email now.

I think the process is better the way it is now as by allowing sales we allow the affiliates and the merchants to make more money.

The issue here is that my colleague who replied to your ticket in our support did not understand the situation correctly. You cannot get your payout if your account is not verified but once you get it verified you should get all the money you are due, including previous sales.

Max

[BigFurry]

Max, a month has passed, it's still not solved.

[MaxPSC]

Let me have a look, sorry been really busy

[Screwed Up]

I'm not surprised one bit.

Years ago I used their backend to promote one of the paysite they process for. Made good money, until the paysite moved away. I never got a notice of this, so I was sending traffic for nothing. Strike 1.
So I was only making money of rebills. After a few months or maybe even years the rebills dried up and there was some money left but below minimum payout. I asked them to pay this out. Nope. Strike 2.
It's easy enough for me to throw up some banners and send sales to get that minimum payout. But I cant find a single paysite that uses them. So I asked them for some video/movie paysites to promote. They don't want to tell me. Strike 3.

Bump for you.
And good luck. You're going to need it.

Which paysite did you promote?

[xXXtesy10]

Originally Posted by MaxPSC

Let me have a look, sorry been really busy

[BigFurry]

I got an answer now.

"We paid the amount to the Sponsor, so you need to contact them and ask them if they are willing to pay you for the sales."

[Screwed Up]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

I got an answer now.

"We paid the amount to the Sponsor, so you need to contact them and ask them if they are willing to pay you for the sales."

HA!
What a bunch of amateurs.

[babeterminal]

Originally Posted by Screwed Up

HA!
What a bunch of amateurs.

explicite art have started using them i saw that they are based in the uk i would stay away just another rip off merchant as you can see from the replies above

as for explicite art they also have epoch which i joined but guess what all pay pages load paysite-cash so fuck them too

[Jigster715]

Thanks for the warning. Won't bother to work with them. Sound like scammers themselves.

[Forkbeard]

Ya gotta love how:

Originally Posted by MaxPSC

You cannot get your payout if your account is not verified but once you get it verified you should get all the money you are due, including previous sales.

turns into:

"We paid the amount to the Sponsor, so you need to contact them and ask them if they are willing to pay you for the sales."

Fuckers, if you sent the money to the wrong party that's not the affiliate's problem. You owe, YOU pay. You're the one with the business relationship with the sponsor, it shouldn't be too hard to collect back the money by withholding it from future payments to them. And if your contractual relationships don't allow that, it's your own fault. But if you fucked up the payment to this affiliate, it's your job to make that right, out of your own pocket if necessary.

Assuming you want to have any credibility in this industry, anyway. Why are people so willing to blow up their public reputation over half the price of a single god-damned sale?

[BigFurry]

Yes. I don't even care about the money that much, it's the principle.

If I make a mistake, I will try to fix it as quickly as possible. And if I cannot do it with the company resources, I will even go out of my way and use my personal money. You know, if they had offered that, I would have just thanked them and let it go, it's not a big sum.

They, on the other hand, were clearly not too bothered, not replying emails, and pointing fingers.

I also see no intention on their part to fix this design flaw in their system. Future affiliates will keep running into the same problem.

[Screwed Up]

Originally Posted by babeterminal

explicite art have started using them i saw that they are based in the uk i would stay away just another rip off merchant as you can see from the replies above

as for explicite art they also have epoch which i joined but guess what all pay pages load paysite-cash so fuck them too

You're so right. Paysite-cash is not worth the hassle. There are 100s of other programs and processors that do things right and are worth sending traffic to.

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

Ya gotta love how:

turns into:

Fuckers, if you sent the money to the wrong party that's not the affiliate's problem. You owe, YOU pay. You're the one with the business relationship with the sponsor, it shouldn't be too hard to collect back the money by withholding it from future payments to them. And if your contractual relationships don't allow that, it's your own fault. But if you fucked up the payment to this affiliate, it's your job to make that right, out of your own pocket if necessary.

Assuming you want to have any credibility in this industry, anyway. Why are people so willing to blow up their public reputation over half the price of a single god-damned sale?

Very well said!

[bns666]

which paysites can you promote through them? can't seem to find a list.

[Forkbeard]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

Yes. I don't even care about the money that much, it's the principle.

Well exactly. This particular thirteen bucks (or whatever) doesn't matter. What does matter is that affiliates have no choice but to rely on programs handling money properly. The single most important criterion I use in deciding whether to promote a program is my evaluation of their signaling where affiliate money is concerned. Do they loudly signal their commitment to the notion that every dime of affiliate money will be carefully collected, fairly accounted for, and promptly paid without demand? Or do they not?

These fuckers, clearly, do not.

[_Richard_]

these guys are centralpay.eu?

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Forkbeard

Well exactly. This particular thirteen bucks (or whatever) doesn't matter. What does matter is that affiliates have no choice but to rely on programs handling money properly. The single most important criterion I use in deciding whether to promote a program is my evaluation of their signaling where affiliate money is concerned. Do they loudly signal their commitment to the notion that every dime of affiliate money will be carefully collected, fairly accounted for, and promptly paid without demand? Or do they not?

These fuckers, clearly, do not.

This is the #1 reason my sites remain with CCBill.

[MaxPSC]

Let's clarify the situation:

- In fact I thought it was totally logical and fair that if you get verified after making sales you should get all the money you are due. What I was not aware of is that it is a MasterCard requirement to not hold the money and therefore pay the merchant for the sales if the affiliate was not compliant at the time of the sales.

- Letting the sales occur while an affiliate is not verified is debatable but once again it helps the merchant to increase sales. If an affiliate accepts the terms and conditions but does not send his documents before making sales, a merchant should not miss out on sales opportunities for it.

- Paysite-cash being a scam is really inappropriate. I can understand the frustration in this situation and that is why I am doing my best to solve the issue. However, please do not jump into conclusions so quickly. If you wonder who we are you can visit our sites paysite-cash.com and nordpay.com. Financial Institution regulated by the FCA. This is actually the reason why it can get frustrating because we have a fully compliant process that you may not find elsewhere. I personally think it is reassuring and proves we are no scammers.

- In order to solve the issue, I have contacted the merchant: virtualtaboo.com
He will email you with a solution to compensate your lost.
I can actually recommend to you all this VR affiliation program. They are only newish but do a great and really professional job, and it converts well ;)

Last but not least, please make sure you read the terms and conditions before to sign up to avoid any disappointment in the future.

Thank you

Max

[BigFurry]

I appreciate it that you guys are compliant and regulated. I think you actually have a chance to be a big affiliate-aggregator merchant.

If you change your attitude towards affiliates. The problem right now is that you only seem to regard the paysites as the client. That is wrong, your affiliates are also your clients. If they are not happy with your services, your other clients won't be able to make many sales.

It still feels to me that you're unwilling to make any changes to accommodate the affiliates. Many people already sign up CCBILL programs only - you have some big shoes to fill in.

VirtualTaboo already emailed me. I can vouch for them as well, nice guys. They are not at fault at all in this story.

[CPA-Rush]

wtfffff...

[MaxPSC]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

I appreciate it that you guys are compliant and regulated. I think you actually have a chance to be a big affiliate-aggregator merchant.

If you change your attitude towards affiliates. The problem right now is that you only seem to regard the paysites as the client. That is wrong, your affiliates are also your clients. If they are not happy with your services, your other clients won't be able to make many sales.

It still feels to me that you're unwilling to make any changes to accommodate the affiliates. Many people already sign up CCBILL programs only - you have some big shoes to fill in.

VirtualTaboo already emailed me. I can vouch for them as well, nice guys. They are not at fault at all in this story.

I totally agree with you, it is my way of thinking too. That is the reason why I took time to answer you and even contact virtualtaboo to find a solution.

I appreciate your feedback and will make sure that the right team is aware of the misunderstandings that can happen and that they make sure they apply the changes necessary to avoid this in the future.

Thank you

Max

[beavr]

I confirm that they are not okay while dealing with affiliates

Got my sales stolen the same way

I won't suggest any program owner to run affiliate program via paysite-cash.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by MaxPSC

Let's clarify the situation:

- In fact I thought it was totally logical and fair that if you get verified after making sales you should get all the money you are due. What I was not aware of is that it is a MasterCard requirement to not hold the money and therefore pay the merchant for the sales if the affiliate was not compliant at the time of the sales.

- Letting the sales occur while an affiliate is not verified is debatable but once again it helps the merchant to increase sales. If an affiliate accepts the terms and conditions but does not send his documents before making sales, a merchant should not miss out on sales opportunities for it.

- Paysite-cash being a scam is really inappropriate. I can understand the frustration in this situation and that is why I am doing my best to solve the issue. However, please do not jump into conclusions so quickly. If you wonder who we are you can visit our sites paysite-cash.com and nordpay.com. Financial Institution regulated by the FCA. This is actually the reason why it can get frustrating because we have a fully compliant process that you may not find elsewhere. I personally think it is reassuring and proves we are no scammers.

- In order to solve the issue, I have contacted the merchant: virtualtaboo.com
He will email you with a solution to compensate your lost.
I can actually recommend to you all this VR affiliation program. They are only newish but do a great and really professional job, and it converts well ;)

Last but not least, please make sure you read the terms and conditions before to sign up to avoid any disappointment in the future.

Thank you

Max

Hi Max,
how to contact you directly?

[MaxPSC]

Hi,

Drop me an email: [email protected]

Thanks

Max

[TBFS]

Originally Posted by MaxPSC

Let's clarify the situation:
- Letting the sales occur while an affiliate is not verified is debatable but once again it helps the merchant to increase sales. If an affiliate accepts the terms and conditions but does not send his documents before making sales, a merchant should not miss out on sales opportunities for it.
Max

Without the affiliate the merchant wouldn't have had this sale in the first place though, that visitor didn't magically land on the site XD

i don't think its strange an affiliate needs to get id verified before payment, but not crediting the sale to his account because he didn't id verify yet is just plainly stupid.

[MaxPSC]

Originally Posted by TBFS

i don't think its strange an affiliate needs to get id verified before payment, but not crediting the sale to his account because he didn't id verify yet is just plainly stupid.

We don't make the rules, we just follow them

[Tjeezers]

Originally Posted by MaxPSC

- In order to solve the issue, I have contacted the merchant: virtualtaboo.com
He will email you with a solution to compensate your lost.
I can actually recommend to you all this VR affiliation program. They are only newish but do a great and really professional job, and it converts well ;)

Last but not least, please make sure you read the terms and conditions before to sign up to avoid any disappointment in the future.

Thank you

Max

That is mighty nice of you to do
Good to see this thread has a good outcome

[Screwed Up]

So who made this rule?

[Johnbroot]

Originally Posted by babeterminal

explicite art have started using them i saw that they are based in the uk i would stay away just another rip off merchant as you can see from the replies above

as for explicite art they also have epoch which i joined but guess what all pay pages load paysite-cash so fuck them too

Oooops! It seems that some of you guys have problems with Paysitecash… And some of you don’t like Epoch very much. Ok, we heard you. We’re now working on fully re-implementing CCBill on the new wwww.rebootcash.com. So you’ll be able to choose your favorite processor: CCBill, Epoch or PaysiteCash. It will be done very soon. Does that seem ok to you? Let us know. All the best.
John, (explicite-art.com and rebootcash.com)

See our threads about the new rebootcash.com program here:
https://gfy.com/announcements/1194260...l#post20857562
https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...-improved.html

[BigFurry]

Originally Posted by MaxPSC

We don't make the rules, we just follow them

Now we are back to square one, you're pointing fingers.

It was YOUR decision to allow affiliates to grab link codes and start making sales before verification, KNOWING that they will never ever get paid for them.

Have you changed that yet?

[MaxPSC]

Originally Posted by Screwed Up

So who made this rule?

MasterCard

[MaxPSC]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

Now we are back to square one, you're pointing fingers.

It was YOUR decision to allow affiliates to grab link codes and start making sales before verification, KNOWING that they will never ever get paid for them.

Have you changed that yet?

Not pointing finger, I explained that it was a set rule to not pay a non-verified affiliate but pay the merchant instead. Not justifying the issue you mention about allowing the sales before verification with MasterCards rules.

As I said your feedback has been taken into consideration and we are working on improving the system. I will actually open a thread (probably next week) about this.

We are in the process of it, things cannot be changed within a day unfortunately but we appreciate your feedback and we are willing to make sure affiliates have a better experience with Paysite-cash.

Max

[Forkbeard]

If it's a Mastercard rule, isn't it odd how literally nobody else in the industry is following it?

[beavr]

MaxPSC, enough of lame excuses please

You could do it right if you'd have a will. You don't have one.

[MaxPSC]

Originally Posted by beavr

MaxPSC, enough of lame excuses please

You could do it right if you'd have a will. You don't have one.

Lame excuses?

If you read the explanation given, there is no excuses but only facts.

1. We cannot pay an affiliate who is not compliant -> fact

2. We allowed sales to occur before verification -> fact

No 2 is the issue here and we are working on it to improve our service after the feedbacks we received.
If we had no will we would not take the time to modify our product and worse, we would not take the time to reply to you guys.

And I do not even talk about the fact that we contacted the merchant to make it right and try to compensate BigFurry.

Max

[babeterminal]

will they change things personally i do not think so.............

"we have heard your feed back but really we do not give a fuck"

[MaxPSC]

Originally Posted by babeterminal

will they change things personally i do not think so.............

"we have heard your feed back but really we do not give a fuck"

It is on our to do list and will soon be done so yes we will change it.

I will update you when it is done and you will be able to see it by yourself.

I totally understand that most of you can doubt about it because it should have been done a while ago. I can assure you that Paysite-cash is changing and we value everyone's feedback.

If you have other constructive feedback you can email me directly:

[email protected]

Thank you

Max

[BigFurry]

Hi Max,

I did have another suggestion a while ago which went unanswered.

You have a captcha in the login, so affiliates can't download their statistics automatically with tools like NiftyStats and StatsRemote. This is particularly important to big affiliates that promote a lot of programs.

A solution would be either to
A) remove the captcha
B) provide a captcha-free login only for the stats download software authors
C) provide an API for these software to access the data in JSON/XML

For NiftyStats you could get in touch @ Submit your affiliate program | Nifty stats - Get nifty access to your affiliate stats & PPC Campaigns to work it out.
StatsRemote is @ StatsRemote :: Contact Us :: We would like to hear from you.

[MaxPSC]

Hi,

Would you mind sending me all of this by email?

I intend to gather all the infos together and it will make it easier if everyone email me.

Thanks a lot

Max

[BigFurry]

Email sent