Tech Servers. Managed vs Unmanaged

[AdultKing]

Do you prefer a managed or unmanaged server ?

If you prefer, or need, a managed server then what services do you expect to be provided for you in the price ?

[Relic]

I like rebuilding kernels, no management needed here.

[King Mark]

I like managed but dont need it. I prefer managed because I actually make money online and would rather focus on that and let the server monkeys handle the tech stuff. And for the managed prices, everything needs to be included. If im paying a manged premium, you better be providing premium managed services, which means when I send that ticket in for the silliest directory change or the hardest migration in your life it better get done and done right. I keep droplettes on digital ocean for bored days though.

[wankawonk]

Originally Posted by Dead Eye

I prefer managed because I actually make money online and would rather focus on that and let the server monkeys handle the tech stuff.

I mean I get where you're coming from but Fabian Thylmann was a "server monkey" who handled "tech stuff".

[King Mark]

Originally Posted by wankawonk

I mean I get where you're coming from but Fabian Thylmann was a "server monkey" who handled "tech stuff".

You get nowhere in life without taking a risk. But I understand exactly what you mean. The thing is not everyone can handle a server. Youd be surprised how many "webmasters" can't even set a hostname properly. And unless your server is in your house...

[jollyhumper]

I voted managed. Because doing this shit is time-consuming enough to be occupied with server-managment as well....
I expect quick services when shit happens and good support. And backups

Jolly

[King Mark]

I'll tell you what though, if you're a combo guy then wiredtree is hands down the best host. Fully managed with full root access to fuck your shit up whenever you want. They will fix it with a smile on their face.

[Klen]

Unmanaged. I dont know what gives people impression how management is a lot of work- after initial setup, all you had to is run occasional system upgrade/update and that's it.

[j3rkules]

I prefer hosting companies that provides fully managed dedicated servers. It is more expensive, but I prefer to pay a bit more.The answer is: it depends on what you are trying to do.

[Markul]

Unmanaged for most, managed for a few just cause they haven't been migrated yet. If one of my guys can't figure it out, I'll find someone who can and pay by the hour.

[dig420]

Originally Posted by wankawonk

I mean I get where you're coming from but Fabian Thylmann was a "server monkey" who handled "tech stuff".

Fabian wasn't a server tech, he was a programmer. A very, very good programmer.

[freecartoonporn]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Unmanaged. I dont know what gives people impression how management is a lot of work- after initial setup, all you had to is run occasional system upgrade/update and that's it.

[Jigster715]

Looking for managed servers. Everything included including support that responds in minutes/hours and not days. Our set ups are not complicated but server management is best left to pros. We need to focus on sales and off-line translation business, tv show, etc...

[dig420]

Originally Posted by Jigster715

Looking for managed servers. Everything included including support that responds in minutes/hours and not days. Our set ups are not complicated but server management is best left to pros. We need to focus on sales and off-line translation business, tv show, etc...

You want nationalnet. Accept no substitutes.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by dig420

You want nationalnet. Accept no substitutes.

Nationalnet charges liquidgold for their services , while his budget is in terms of... wooden stick.

[Jigster715]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Nationalnet charges liquidgold for their services , while his budget is in terms of... wooden stick.

More like baseball bat.

I've actually checked Nationalnet.com. They do not display prices which I find odd. I don't trust people who want to do everything behind closed doors. It probably means two webmasters can be charged 2 different prices for the same products. I've also noticed a lot of scuzzbag webmasters use them so...enjoy.

[NatalieK]

we've always had managed, preferring to know there's someone at hand ready to help if need be

[dig420]

Originally Posted by Jigster715

I've also noticed a lot of scuzzbag webmasters use them so...enjoy.

I think you mean to say 'A lot of webmasters use them'. Whatever your definition of 'scuzzbag' is, you'll find them with any hosting service. That's kind of like blaming a car because someone used it to rob a bank. Which seems to work for the federal govt in forfeiture proceedings, now that I think about it.

In any case, they're not where you go if you're bargain hunting, but in my experience you get what you pay for in hosting more than most fields. I've heard good things about M3 as well, you might want to give them a look.

[BigFurry]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Unmanaged. I dont know what gives people impression how management is a lot of work- after initial setup, all you had to is run occasional system upgrade/update and that's it.

Agreed.

And sometimes it is actually faster if you have full root access yourself and you don't have to submit tickets to get something tiny done.

[SweetT]

Hey All...

I know I have not been around here in a while. Sorry about that. The problem is that I end up getting drug into a debate and then I end up sitting in front of my PC for hours going back and forth with someone who knows very little about anything in the real world and I wondered why I even bothered. I am sure you can understand that.

In this thread, however, there seems to be some really intelligent conversation going on (which I like) and since we were mentioned by name I figured I could pop in here and make a few points without having to be here all night. Cool?

Let me start by responding to the OP's question....

It really depends on what you want to accomplish and what resources you have at your disposal. There has been some good points made in this debate for both sides (Managed versus Unmanaged) but there is one point that has not been brought up that I think is the most important.....even if you have all of the talent and knowledge needed for setting up and maintaining your servers what about MONITORING? Any good Managed Provider is going to monitor your server 24x7x365 and will immediately fix anything that goes wrong with no involvement from you. With an Unmanaged Server that will be your responsibility.

Now, before anyone starts to scream "PINGDOM" at me let me admit that there are services out there that, for a very small charge, will monitor your sites and will alert you with an email or text message if they are not responding. However, what happens when that alert comes in just about the same time as you are falling into that DEEP sleep where you are dreaming about 4 naked Victoria's Secret Super Models taking turns slobbering on your cock? Do you think you will hear it and wake up? Or worse.....what if it is NOT a dream??? Are you going to tell Adriana Lima to stop blowing you while you run to the bathroom because your Hard Drive is failing? I can only imagine what she will think that means!

Don't get me wrong...if you are lucky enough to already have a small staff of tech guys who can work out an "on call" schedule or something like that or maybe you always wake up in the middle of the night when you get an email or text message. In either of those scenarios then I can see where an Unmanaged Dedicated plan can work for you. But, if you are not that lucky then you may want to consider paying the extra $50 or $100 per month to have someone always there ready and waiting for you by getting a Fully Managed Dedicated server.

Maybe one day soon we can have another discussion on Managed versus FULLY Managed. Yes, there is a difference but I will save that one for another day

Now to some more specific points....

Originally Posted by dig420

You want nationalnet. Accept no substitutes.

Thank you, sir. We always appreciate the kind words.

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Nationalnet charges liquidgold for their services.

I will admit that we have always had that reputation but most people that host with us think that what we bring to the table is worth it a little bit extra. And, of course, that reputation is sometimes a little exaggerated....and that may have even been our own fault back in the day. Back then we marketed ourselves as the most expensive, best web hosting money could buy. But as the industry adjusted, so did we. Of course, now-a-days, there are many people who do not think that $199 per month for an Entry Level Fully Managed Dedicated Server that will be fine for most small-medium paysites is too much to ask. But we also understand that there are other options available and we are not the only game in town. We just want to take care of our customers and keep them happy.

Originally Posted by Jigster715

I've actually checked Nationalnet.com. They do not display prices which I find odd. I don't trust people who want to do everything behind closed doors. It probably means two webmasters can be charged 2 different prices for the same products. I've also noticed a lot of scuzzbag webmasters use them so...enjoy.

Hey Jigster....Thanks for checking us out. Yes, we do not display prices for our Fully Managed Hosting because for that service we prefer to put together a custom tailored proposal that will meet your needs for a price that you are happy with. If you check out our Dedicated Servers (unmanaged) you will see the prices posted because we are not customizing a solution for you on those plans.

As for "scuzzbag" webmasters that we host I honestly cannot really say. I would like to think that every customer we have are fine upstanding citizens but I am sure that if you look hard enough you will probably find one or two that you do not like. Heck, we have some customers that I don't even like that much (LOL!!). We host Bridgestone Rubber's complete Golf Division and I have tried my best to use their golf balls but I just simply like the Nike's better....(maybe I can afford the Titleist one day)......but that does not mean that I think that Bridgestone is a "scuzzbag". If we cannot earn your business because of some other company we host then I understand and I respect you for it. But, if you want to discuss it further with someone just send an email to sales (AT) nationalnet {DOT} com and hopefully they will be able to help.

Sorry for the long post...just trying to contribute since I am not around much anymore.

--T

[wehateporn]

Time is the problem, so no choice but managed for me

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by Jigster715

They do not display prices which I find odd. I don't trust people who want to do everything behind closed doors. It probably means two webmasters can be charged 2 different prices for the same products. I've also noticed a lot of scuzzbag webmasters use them so...enjoy.

I always move on if I cannot see a price as it makes me feel it will be a game of poker, same with shops in the high street. I believe prices are hidden if they will scare the customer away, just my opinion of course, maybe there is another explanation

[redwhiteandblue]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

we've always had managed, preferring to know there's someone at hand ready to help if need be

Gary. You don't prefer to have a managed server, you need to have your server managed because if you tried to manage it yourself you'd end up breaking the internet. It hurts just thinking about it.

[Rochard]

Unless you are a server admin and know exactly what you are doing.... You need to go managed. It's kind of like owning a car - I can fix some things, but usually not, so I need to take it to the mechanic when I run into problems. The difference is I can go a week without a car, but when my server goes down in the middle of the night.... I can't wait a week for it.

I see Tony Morgan from Nat Net posted; He'll always have my business. One time we had "managed" hosting and our server went down in the wee hours of the morning. (This was many, many years ago). Somehow Tony got my cell phone number and called me at 3am in the morning my time and walked me through the problems and got us up and running again.

If you want to know how good a hosting company is..... Call their tech support number at 3am their time and see if they answer.

[woj]

you can do many things in life yourself, but usually it's best to hire a professional... do you do your own taxes? or work on your car yourself like Rochard pointed out? probably not... professionals have all the right tools, have years of experience, know all the tricks and pitfalls, etc...

with unmanaged server you can kinda wing it by reading some tutorials online, but that would be kinda like trying to replace a car engine based on some youtube tutorial video, or doing your taxes based on what you learned on wikipedia...

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

You don't prefer to have a managed server, you need to have your server managed because if you tried to manage it yourself you'd end up breaking the internet. It hurts just thinking about it.

wow, you've proven to be a dick & give great contribution to this thread

It hurts to think of you doing real business. I shoot porn every day, we, Gary & I, update profiles & live on our porn every day...

you're trying to break the net, you fail

[NatalieK]

Oh and I recommend adult-hosting.com for managed & un-managed servers, fantastic rapport, 99.9% uptime & you know you get full commitment from this company

[dig420]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

Oh and I recommend adult-hosting.com for managed & un-managed servers, fantastic rapport, 99.9% uptime & you know you get full commitment from this company

If they're so good, they should have a real domain name. Tell them xxxhost.com is for sale.

[AdultKing]

Originally Posted by SweetT

even if you have all of the talent and knowledge needed for setting up and maintaining your servers what about MONITORING? Any good Managed Provider is going to monitor your server 24x7x365 and will immediately fix anything that goes wrong with no involvement from you. With an Unmanaged Server that will be your responsibility.

I agree with most of what you have written except this.

I have several dozen servers with OVH. The moment there is any kind of hardware failure or the machine becomes unreachable then an intervention is automatically started and the problem is fixed in an average of half an hour.

Not all unmanaged server providers do this but OVH do completely monitor everything about your server and immediately respond to fix the issue.

Too many SMART errors on a RAID disk - it's replaced. CPU running too warm - cooling system is replaced, machine stops responding to pings - intervention brings it up again and so on.

I manage all of my own servers either directly or, as I am lucky enough to own a mainstream IT company, one of my staff will work on them.

[sirkonstantine]

Managed! Someone else can deal with that. Especially when it's some emotionally draining thing like your sites getting hacked!

[fris]

unmanaged for sure, dont think ive ever had a managed server before.

[3xmedia]

Originally Posted by dig420

If they're so good, they should have a real domain name. Tell them xxxhost.com is for sale.

adult-hosting.com is just some clown reselling hostgator

[SweetT]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

I agree with most of what you have written except this.

I have several dozen servers with OVH. The moment there is any kind of hardware failure or the machine becomes unreachable then an intervention is automatically started and the problem is fixed in an average of half an hour.

Not all unmanaged server providers do this but OVH do completely monitor everything about your server and immediately respond to fix the issue.

Too many SMART errors on a RAID disk - it's replaced. CPU running too warm - cooling system is replaced, machine stops responding to pings - intervention brings it up again and so on.

I manage all of my own servers either directly or, as I am lucky enough to own a mainstream IT company, one of my staff will work on them.

You are exactly right. When it comes to Hardware Issues these are definitely the responsibility of the Unmanaged Host and they absolutely should be monitoring for everything you listed. But that is only a small part of what can go wrong on a server.

Just as a short test, I logged into our own Alert System to see what my guys are working on right this very second. Here is the unedited list (of course, I only pulled out the reason for the alert and no customer or server information).......

- Outbound Traffic is Low
- Disk is almost full (90%)
- Got 401 Unauthorized from http://XXXXXXXXX
- Outbound Traffic is High
- MySQL Slave is more than 30 seconds behind Master

Of course, none of these issues are Hardware Related so none of them would be alerted to by an Unmanaged Host.

Your point is well made, however, in that you are one of the lucky ones who has the talent and some extra staff to help out. All of that means that it probably makes very good sense for you to use an Unmanaged Host. I probably would if I were you, too. At this point I am talking to more of the one server, one employee type company and that is not you, for sure

Hope this helps!

--T

[Denny]

It's quite simple for me - I don't know Linux and how to manage a server so I always go fully managed. I know I can go unmanaged and hire some admin (and save a few bucks maybe) but will they be available 24/7? What if something goes wrong at 2 a.m? I rarely need support but I can sleep better when I know that there is somebody 24/7 to help when something goes wrong. Ok, some say it's not that hard to manage a server and you can find a lot of tutorials on internet, people willing to help on boards etc., but time is money and I rather pay a bit more for a fully managed server, and just focus on business and my websites.

[fris]

i find most adult hosts cant compete pricing wise when i can go with someone else, with better pricing, and get a lot more.

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by dig420

If they're so good, they should have a real domain name. Tell them xxxhost.com is for sale.

yes, it is strange they have the dash between the adult & hosting.

They have their own headquarters & locations, I think in Canada. Do check them out. The service is outstanding. Our server went down only once in 6 yrs for about half hour or so, they refunded some money. The costs are low & the quality is high.

netelligent hosting is part of the same firm

[3xmedia]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

yes, it is strange they have the dash between the adult & hosting.

They have their own headquarters & locations, I think in Canada. Do check them out. The service is outstanding. Our server went down only once in 6 yrs for about half hour or so, they refunded some money. The costs are low & the quality is high.

netelligent hosting is part of the same firm

adult-hosting.com - no alexa rank. how many clients do they have?

why don't they have a phone contact on their website? also no real address, just some shitty contact form > shady as hell.

why the texts on their website are on hundreds of other websites/domains?

because some indiot is just reselling crappy hostgator hosting on that domain

[NatalieK]

Originally Posted by 3xmedia

adult-hosting.com - no alexa rank. how many clients do they have?

why don't they have a phone contact on their website? also no real address, just some shitty contact form > shady as hell.

why the texts on their website are on hundreds of other websites/domains?

because some indiot is just reselling crappy hostgator hosting on that domain

no way shady, was with them for years & I get nothing out of this, just doing people favors. Those that join & adult-hosting. They're 10/10

& btw, it's not hostgator, it's netelligent >>> https://www.netelligent.com/

Check out this website, they're top notch & superior

AdultHosting's a small division of these, leasing their own servers in Canada

[dig420]

Gotta be careful about shit like that. I used a company called adulthost.com waaaay back in the day trying to save some money. They tried to steal my domains, among many, many other shady things. You never know who you're dealing with, so do your research. Get with a reputable company.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

I agree with most of what you have written except this.

I have several dozen servers with OVH. The moment there is any kind of hardware failure or the machine becomes unreachable then an intervention is automatically started and the problem is fixed in an average of half an hour.

Not all unmanaged server providers do this but OVH do completely monitor everything about your server and immediately respond to fix the issue.

Too many SMART errors on a RAID disk - it's replaced. CPU running too warm - cooling system is replaced, machine stops responding to pings - intervention brings it up again and so on.

I manage all of my own servers either directly or, as I am lucky enough to own a mainstream IT company, one of my staff will work on them.

I can confirm what you saying tho for mojohost - i have self managed server there and they monitor my server so everytime when hdd fail they automatically replace it. And that operation goes smoothly , even there is no notification i would not notice how disk failed and was replaced.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by SweetT

- Outbound Traffic is Low
- Disk is almost full (90%)
- Got 401 Unauthorized from http://XXXXXXXXX
- Outbound Traffic is High
- MySQL Slave is more than 30 seconds behind Master

You can actually set nagios or any other monitor system to be auto informed over e-mail when such problems occur.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by woj

you can do many things in life yourself, but usually it's best to hire a professional... do you do your own taxes? or work on your car yourself like Rochard pointed out? probably not... professionals have all the right tools, have years of experience, know all the tricks and pitfalls, etc...

with unmanaged server you can kinda wing it by reading some tutorials online, but that would be kinda like trying to replace a car engine based on some youtube tutorial video, or doing your taxes based on what you learned on wikipedia...

Well..i do my taxes alone, tho for car cant say as i do not own one. However if i would have it i am sure i would try to fix it by myself especially considering what fortune is going for old car fixes.

But i find it silly how you compare system administration with car fixing - i am quite sure how car fixing is way way more complicated then system administration.

[SweetT]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

You can actually set nagios or any other monitor system to be auto informed over e-mail when such problems occur.

I know. That is why I addressed that in my very first post......

"Now, before anyone starts to scream "PINGDOM" at me let me admit that there are services out there that, for a very small charge, will monitor your sites and will alert you with an email or text message if they are not responding. However, what happens when that alert comes in just about the same time as you are falling into that DEEP sleep where you are dreaming about 4 naked Victoria's Secret Super Models taking turns slobbering on your cock? Do you think you will hear it and wake up? Or worse.....what if it is NOT a dream??? Are you going to tell Adriana Lima to stop blowing you while you run to the bathroom because your Hard Drive is failing? I can only imagine what she will think that means!"

It seems apparent that you are in love with unmanaged and I already agreed that if I were in your position I would do the same thing but everyone is not in that position. That is why all of us hosts offer different plans to meet different needs

--T

[CurrentlySober]

I voted managed, cause before I retired, I was too busy creating the porn to worry about the tech side. I don't even like control panels. Back when I was with mojo, anything I needed done was done almost instantly by return of email. Weight off my mind

[trevesty]

Depends on the project - I use unmanaged for most things, but have a server at M3Server also (managed).

[fris]

Originally Posted by AdultKing

I agree with most of what you have written except this.

I have several dozen servers with OVH. The moment there is any kind of hardware failure or the machine becomes unreachable then an intervention is automatically started and the problem is fixed in an average of half an hour.

Not all unmanaged server providers do this but OVH do completely monitor everything about your server and immediately respond to fix the issue.

Too many SMART errors on a RAID disk - it's replaced. CPU running too warm - cooling system is replaced, machine stops responding to pings - intervention brings it up again and so on.

I manage all of my own servers either directly or, as I am lucky enough to own a mainstream IT company, one of my staff will work on them.

im on ovh as well, as far as price and service you cant get any better if you need unmanaged.

for 99 canadian i dont think anyone here can beat intel xeon, 3.8ghz, 32gb ram, 2x480gb ssd, and 256 ip addresses.

my previous host wanted to charge $199 a month just for 16 ip addresses.

[Jigster715]

HI, SweetT - Going to submit a quote. It really does seem to be between you guys and Mojo for anything real in the managed world. Thanks for your posting here.

Originally Posted by SweetT

Hey All...

I know I have not been around here in a while. Sorry about that. The problem is that I end up getting drug into a debate and then I end up sitting in front of my PC for hours going back and forth with someone who knows very little about anything in the real world and I wondered why I even bothered. I am sure you can understand that.

In this thread, however, there seems to be some really intelligent conversation going on (which I like) and since we were mentioned by name I figured I could pop in here and make a few points without having to be here all night. Cool?

Let me start by responding to the OP's question....

It really depends on what you want to accomplish and what resources you have at your disposal. There has been some good points made in this debate for both sides (Managed versus Unmanaged) but there is one point that has not been brought up that I think is the most important.....even if you have all of the talent and knowledge needed for setting up and maintaining your servers what about MONITORING? Any good Managed Provider is going to monitor your server 24x7x365 and will immediately fix anything that goes wrong with no involvement from you. With an Unmanaged Server that will be your responsibility.

Now, before anyone starts to scream "PINGDOM" at me let me admit that there are services out there that, for a very small charge, will monitor your sites and will alert you with an email or text message if they are not responding. However, what happens when that alert comes in just about the same time as you are falling into that DEEP sleep where you are dreaming about 4 naked Victoria's Secret Super Models taking turns slobbering on your cock? Do you think you will hear it and wake up? Or worse.....what if it is NOT a dream??? Are you going to tell Adriana Lima to stop blowing you while you run to the bathroom because your Hard Drive is failing? I can only imagine what she will think that means!

Don't get me wrong...if you are lucky enough to already have a small staff of tech guys who can work out an "on call" schedule or something like that or maybe you always wake up in the middle of the night when you get an email or text message. In either of those scenarios then I can see where an Unmanaged Dedicated plan can work for you. But, if you are not that lucky then you may want to consider paying the extra $50 or $100 per month to have someone always there ready and waiting for you by getting a Fully Managed Dedicated server.

Maybe one day soon we can have another discussion on Managed versus FULLY Managed. Yes, there is a difference but I will save that one for another day

Now to some more specific points....



Thank you, sir. We always appreciate the kind words.



I will admit that we have always had that reputation but most people that host with us think that what we bring to the table is worth it a little bit extra. And, of course, that reputation is sometimes a little exaggerated....and that may have even been our own fault back in the day. Back then we marketed ourselves as the most expensive, best web hosting money could buy. But as the industry adjusted, so did we. Of course, now-a-days, there are many people who do not think that $199 per month for an Entry Level Fully Managed Dedicated Server that will be fine for most small-medium paysites is too much to ask. But we also understand that there are other options available and we are not the only game in town. We just want to take care of our customers and keep them happy.



Hey Jigster....Thanks for checking us out. Yes, we do not display prices for our Fully Managed Hosting because for that service we prefer to put together a custom tailored proposal that will meet your needs for a price that you are happy with. If you check out our Dedicated Servers (unmanaged) you will see the prices posted because we are not customizing a solution for you on those plans.

As for "scuzzbag" webmasters that we host I honestly cannot really say. I would like to think that every customer we have are fine upstanding citizens but I am sure that if you look hard enough you will probably find one or two that you do not like. Heck, we have some customers that I don't even like that much (LOL!!). We host Bridgestone Rubber's complete Golf Division and I have tried my best to use their golf balls but I just simply like the Nike's better....(maybe I can afford the Titleist one day)......but that does not mean that I think that Bridgestone is a "scuzzbag". If we cannot earn your business because of some other company we host then I understand and I respect you for it. But, if you want to discuss it further with someone just send an email to sales (AT) nationalnet {DOT} com and hopefully they will be able to help.

Sorry for the long post...just trying to contribute since I am not around much anymore.

--T

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by Jigster715

HI, SweetT - Going to submit a quote. It really does seem to be between you guys and Mojo for anything real in the managed world. Thanks for your posting here.

I'd also add Reflected/Swiftwill to that list.

[AMDWarrior]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

Oh and I recommend adult-hosting.com for managed & un-managed servers, fantastic rapport, 99.9% uptime & you know you get full commitment from this company

They didn't ask about shared hosting which is about all you have and can afford.

[Jigster715]

Originally Posted by Axeman

I'd also add Reflected/Swiftwill to that list.

Thanks, Axeman: Will check them out too. Both National and Mojo really stepping up to help us. I recommend all of them to anyone looking for managed. They feel our pain.