Rant What's more important. Tax Cuts or The Wall

[VRPdommy]

Everyone gets to see some true colors...
There will be no wall so Tax Breaks can be gifted out. Should not be a surprise to anyone.

Trump bowing to Congress over wall funding – Normangee Star

For all the tax breaks we have given in the name of JOBS the last 30 years, why do so many still need jobs ? Soon we will run out of tax breaks to hand out. What then ?

I have never seen a relationship of Jobs and Tax Cuts.
But I do notice one in Tax Cuts and Profits. And somehow, those profits never find their way to shareholders.

Perhaps I am holding the wrong stocks, but they are the company's lobbying for and receiving the benefit of them. Perhaps those Congressmen and Senators cost more these days and it's cutting in to the bottom line.

After they do this tax cut deed, I'm sure I will be asked to pay more taxes for infrastructure spending.

[Barry-xlovecam]

The above is rhetorical, right?

I thought Mexico was going to pay for that wall?

Corporate tax reform is needed. The should be no double taxation on dividends -- those profits should be taxed only once.
There should be no capital gains tax on investments made with dollars already taxed once.

A lot of corporate income deductions and "loopholes" need to be eliminated and the maximum rates adjusted to be revenue neutral. Using the income tax code for economic stimulus does not work.

[arock10]

Capital gains should be taxed the same as actual people fucking working. It's absolutely ridiculous

[Rochard]

People pay taxes?

[Barry-xlovecam]

Why? I paid taxes once already on that money as ordinary income.

[crockett]

It appears roads and medical research are less important than "the wall"..that Mexico was supposed to pay for...

Trump Mexico Wall: WH Calls for Domestic Cuts to Pay for It | Fortune.com

Who's gonna pay for the wall?



Trumpers got Trumped..

[Busty2]

Originally Posted by crockett

It appears roads and medical research are less important than "the wall"..that Mexico was supposed to pay for...

Trump Mexico Wall: WH Calls for Domestic Cuts to Pay for It | Fortune.com

Who's gonna pay for the wall?



Trumpers got Trumped..

No matter how they spin this crap, we will end up paying for it. How long before people wake up to the lies they have been fed. Its one lie following another every fricking week now.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Busty2

No matter how they spin this crap, we will end up paying for it. How long before people wake up to the lies they have been fed. Its one lie following another every fricking week now.

Every week? Shit it's fucking daily.. The guy lies about something every damn day..

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Why? I paid taxes once already on that money as ordinary income.

i am not sure if i really understood correctly ...

but as much as i know about worldwide tax systems it is like that:

if you run a company limited (means you are not liable when this company wents bankrupt) it is not you who ownes the company it is the capital.

if you pay yourself a salary - sure you have to pay personal tax but the company not because this salary costs are 100% deductable costs.

the idea of tax is that everyone who made a win gives something from that to the society back.
if you lower company tax under the level of personal tax - nobody take money out and pay what a usual tax payer have to pay.

i really can´t see any sense in that tax-loweing discussion because YES usa is a high tax country for coroporates (same as many other countries are) but i personally do not know many countries what exept so many, really strange deductable costs.
Additionally: USA is the one and only existing country in the world what have a legal tax oasis (delaware) in the middle of the country.
1,2 companies per each delaware inhabitant.
65% of them are fortune 500-listed companies.

for WHAT lower the tax when all these VERY BIG companies do not pay tax ?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

The above is rhetorical, right?

I thought Mexico was going to pay for that wall?

Corporate tax reform is needed. The should be no double taxation on dividends -- those profits should be taxed only once.
There should be no capital gains tax on investments made with dollars already taxed once.

A lot of corporate income deductions and "loopholes" need to be eliminated and the maximum rates adjusted to be revenue neutral. Using the income tax code for economic stimulus does not work.

So you want to make the rich richer. Why?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Busty2

No matter how they spin this crap, we will end up paying for it. How long before people wake up to the lies they have been fed. Its one lie following another every fricking week now.

The benefits of reducing mass migration far outweigh the costs of building a wall.

The United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has estimated that 11.4 million illegal immigrants lived in the United States in January 2012. According to DHS estimates, "the number of illegal immigrants peaked around 12 million in 2007 and has gradually declined to closer to 11 million."

Now add the children of illegal immigrants.



As the vast majority of illegal migrants come from countries with a culture of having lots of children the growth is inevitable.

The growth of what? In terms of what these children aspire to and will be doing to contribute to their new home. Where do they live, how well do they do at school, what's the most common job they do, how much do they earn? Not the exceptional the entire community.





Families on or under $35k per annum don't contribute enough to cover the costs of their share of running a modern country. In fact, those on $40k a year probably only break even when you consider that total Government spending per person is over $20,000.

Adding more people to the bottom of the pile is stupid. Unless you're an employer or landlord, then it's a license to print money.

So pay for the Wall to save you money down the line. Or watch your country decline.

[Matt 26z]

The border wall is a long term investment that pays for itself even if Trump doesn't make Mexico pay for it.

Let's just take cost of educating an illegal youth or anchor baby. The average spent per student in the US is $11,009 per year.

"Nationally, the most recent data indicates $11,009 is spent on public education per student. Significant variation exists across states; New York spends roughly $20,000 per student, while states like Utah and Idaho only spend about a third as much."
Education Spending Per Student by State

In my town the Mexicans cost 1/3rd more because they require special programs, but we'll just go with the $11,009 figure anyway.

It's hard to find out how many Mexican kids are coming across the border plus how many anchors are being born. Seems to be about 50,000 unaccompanied minors.

So let's go (probably) low and just say 100,000 per year. Multiplied by $11,009 is $1.1 billion per year just for that new batch. 12 years of schooling = $13.2 billion.


Factor in cost of welfare and the damage they do undercutting labor wages and you see how quickly the wall pays for itself.

[pimpmaster9000]

but 100s of billions of dollars on """""""""""""""""defense"""""""""""""""""" is no problem at all and nobody is bitching about it

its the 11.000$ spent on educating children that is the problem god damned education! dont they know how much bombs the USA could drop for that money????

""""""""""""""""""""defense""""""""""""""""""" """" needs more money IMO


without """""""""""""""""""""defense"""""""""""""""""""""" "" gay mooslims will take over the USA

[Barry-xlovecam]

OK ...

If I pay X% in taxes on income that is taxable profit it is MY MONEY -- I paid income tax on it.

Do you pay rent every time your walk through the door (as an analogy).

Don't be so dense ...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

OK ...

If I pay X% in taxes on income that is taxable profit it is MY MONEY -- I paid income tax on it.

Do you pay rent every time your walk through the door (as an analogy).

Don't be so dense ...

I see your point. So raise income tax to the level that makes up for all the cuts you want. So the rich can get richer as the cuts you suggest are areas dominated by the rich. Of course the people without money to invest will get poorer.

Which goes along with your picture.

I thought it was a criticism of Trump, I can now see you like his tax cut policies of bankrupting the US to feed greed.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

but 100s of billions of dollars on """""""""""""""""defense"""""""""""""""""" is no problem at all and nobody is bitching about it

its the 11.000$ spent on educating children that is the problem god damned education! dont they know how much bombs the USA could drop for that money????

""""""""""""""""""""defense""""""""""""""""""" """" needs more money IMO


without """""""""""""""""""""defense"""""""""""""""""""""" "" gay mooslims will take over the USA

You ignored my question.

What would Serbians do if 80,000 Muslims to take up residence in Serbia?

[Barry-xlovecam]

Paul it's my fucking money I paid the income tax on it -- income tax is not a VAT or a consumption tax.

I don't have a problem with a VAT tax in fact I think that financial transactions should be subject to some transfer tax.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Paul it's my fucking money I paid the income tax on it -- income tax is not a VAT or a consumption tax.

I don't have a problem with a VAT tax in fact I think that financial transactions should be subject to some transfer tax.

You don't understand the situation. The Government needs to raise x number of dollars to run a modern country. If the cut taxes that come after income tax, they have to raise income tax to cover the missing money.

How about they decide that people who are paying the kind of taxes you grumble about are the only ones who pay the extra to make up the difference?

Suggest where the extra money comes from and we can discuss that. Think of it in terms of balancing business budgets.

Your greed is clouding your judgement.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Discretionary Personal Spending in the USA is over $40 trillion dollars per year -- a 3% consumption tax would pay the bills.

Everybody pays. Food, medicine and educational spending could be exempted.

You buy a house for $300K you pay 3% consumption tax. You pay $600/mo rent you pay a 3% consumption tax.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Discretionary Personal Spending in the USA is over $40 trillion dollars per year -- a 3% consumption tax would pay the bills.

Everybody pays. Food, medicine and educational spending could be exempted.

You buy a house for $300K you pay 3% consumption tax. You pay $600/mo rent you pay a 3% consumption tax.

So an additional tax. Where did you get $40 Trillion dollars? https://www.google.cz/webhp?hl=en&gw...=en&q=us+gdp&* According to that it's 2.5 US GDP.

I do agree with you on moving the taxes from A to B. Just that you might be out on the 3%.

The United States ranked 31st out of 35 OECD countries in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio in 2015.* In 2015, the United States had a tax-to-GDP ratio of 26.4% compared with the OECD average of 34.3%. In 2014, the United States was ranked 32nd out of the 35 OECD countries in terms of the tax-to-GDP ratio.

So 26.4%. Raise taxes to 45%-50% and over time the US can rebuild the infrastructure you demand and repay the debt. Or do you think money grows on trees?

Do you see the point of my argument yet?

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Why? I paid taxes once already on that money as ordinary income.

And as you turn a profit with your money you pay a tax on that profit again....
Either I'm working or my money is working why shouldn't it be taxed

[Barry-xlovecam]

https://www.google.com/search?num=10...ar y+spending

https://www.bea.gov/national/pdf/NIPAhandbookch5.pdf

I ain't buyin your bullshit

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Paul it's my fucking money I paid the income tax on it -- income tax is not a VAT or a consumption tax.

I don't have a problem with a VAT tax in fact I think that financial transactions should be subject to some transfer tax.

It is your money, tax paid .... Leave it in your mattress , use it at will , and you will pay no further INCOME tax .

But if you put it to work ( stocks, real estate, etc ... ) and that brings back a PAY , that pay is to be taxed ( maybe at a lower % ) .

The gov could give an exception level ( here in Canada 500K) , but there is no reasons why only SALARIES should be taxed ....

[Barry-xlovecam]

This is why the economy is fucked up -- you should pay when you consume or transact.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

It is your moiney, tax paid .... Leave it in your mattress , use it at will , sand you will pay no further INCOME tax .

But if you put it to work ( stocks, realk estate, etc ... ) and that bringgs back a PAY , that pay is to be taxed ( maybe at a lower % ) .

The gov could give an exception level ( here in Canada 500K) , but there is no reasons why only SALARIES should be taxed ....

Then your paycheck net should be taxed every time you buy something with it after you pay income tax on that money *** actually they do now GST, VAT or sales tax. But trillions of dollars are changing hands tax free every day because there is no tax on Wall Street or there is no tax on lending yourself money. If you invest it back into the economy like lend it to a bank to lend out into the general economy, or buy a government bond (municipal bonds as an example) you pay no tax -- same fucking thing.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The benefits of reducing mass migration far outweigh the costs of building a wall.

Now add the children of illegal immigrants.



As the vast majority of illegal migrants come from countries with a culture of having lots of children the growth is inevitable.

The growth of what? In terms of what these children aspire to and will be doing to contribute to their new home. Where do they live, how well do they do at school, what's the most common job they do, how much do they earn? Not the exceptional the entire community.





Families on or under $35k per annum don't contribute enough to cover the costs of their share of running a modern country. In fact, those on $40k a year probably only break even when you consider that total Government spending per person is over $20,000.

Adding more people to the bottom of the pile is stupid. Unless you're an employer or landlord, then it's a license to print money.

So pay for the Wall to save you money down the line. Or watch your country decline.

did they also show you how much money this people spend in the country and giving jobs with that ?

if they send them out the jobs will be left what nobody wants to make and a lot of consumers will be missed in the national market.

but why do i tell you that?
you will find out soon by yourself that these are BASICS what can´t be broken.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by arock10

And as you turn a profit with your money you pay a tax on that profit again....
Either I'm working or my money is working why shouldn't it be taxed

Barry just wants to keep more and see debts rise while he wants the infrastructure to be repaired and expects all the facilities a modern country has.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

https://www.google.com/search?num=10...ar y+spending

https://www.bea.gov/national/pdf/NIPAhandbookch5.pdf

I ain't buyin your bullshit

Still waiting for a link that shows Americans spend 2.5 times GDP. I understand what discretionary spending is.

Consumer Discretionary vs. Consumer Staples Sectors
The consumer discretionary sector is characterized by those businesses that tend to be the most sensitive to economic cycles, including hotels, restaurants, and other leisure facilities, media production and service, and consumer retailing and services in its services segment.

The consumer staples sector is made up of companies whose businesses are less sensitive to economic cycles, including manufacturers and distributors of food, beverages and tobacco and producers of non-durable household goods and personal products.

There's also a nice graph there that proves you wrong.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

This is why the economy is fucked up -- you should pay when you consume or transact.

So as I said do it that way and tax the rich more to make up the difference.

[Barry-xlovecam]

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So as I said do it that way and tax the rich more to make up the difference.

The only equitable way EVERYBODY PAYS.

Exempt food, medicine and education and share the load equitably. The is so much money in the USA being made that a small consumption tax on the turnover would raise $1 trillion a year in new revenue to pay for a lot of things. It would take maybe only 6% - 8% more to pay for universal healthcare. The way it is today in the USA maybe $500 billion is going into the insurers pockets every year.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

did they also show you how much money this people spend in the country and giving jobs with that ?

if they send them out the jobs will be left what nobody wants to make and a lot of consumers will be missed in the national market.

but why do i tell you that?
you will find out soon by yourself that these are BASICS what can´t be broken.

Why do you think economics, budgets and accounts are based on the number of good bought/sold?

Back in the day before our countries were so dependent on Retail, there were fewer people employed in retail. But there were far more employed in production and manufacturing.









Now look at the poverty timeline.



Thommy you have to be an extreme capitalist to think that the present policies are working. Because the 1% have never been wealthier.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

The US should slow down it's spending on the military and use its economic power to stop countries being too aggressive and getting the rest of the Modern World to contribute to the cost.

If you're suggesting they sack a lot of soldiers and people working in the Arms industry, you're once again going for greed over the best interests of America. How the United States Will Become a 3rd World Country :: The Market Oracle ::

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

The only equitable way EVERYBODY PAYS.

Exempt food, medicine and education and share the load equitably. The is so much money in the USA being made that a small consumption tax on the turnover would raise $1 trillion a year in new revenue to pay for a lot of things. It would take maybe only 6% - 8% more to pay for universal healthcare. The way it is today in the USA maybe $500 billion is going into the insurers pockets every year.

But you still end up paying the same in taxes which isn't enough to cover government spending or eliminate the debt.

Universal Healthcare should cost America half what it currently pays. So no need to pay more.

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You ignored my question.

What would Serbians do if 80,000 Muslims to take up residence in Serbia?

they would take them in...as they did with 200.000 serbs just in one day when "oluja" happened... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm

keep in mind this was just one day...during the whole war it is hard to say how much refugees serbia took in...80K muslims were easily admitted or "muslims" because the ex yugo was not really religious...

oh and it was totally not ethnic cleansing when the western supported puppets do it its no problem at all so no worries there

[Barry-xlovecam]

You have to get out of this euro mind funk of paying 20-25% VAT and working for 1/3 or 1/2 of USA wages.

There is only maybe 10% - 15% to be saved from the $3 trillion a year spent on healthcare - or ration it. That is still $400 billion per year maybe.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

The border wall is a long term investment that pays for itself even if Trump doesn't make Mexico pay for it.

Let's just take cost of educating an illegal youth or anchor baby. The average spent per student in the US is $11,009 per year.



In my town the Mexicans cost 1/3rd more because they require special programs, but we'll just go with the $11,009 figure anyway.

It's hard to find out how many Mexican kids are coming across the border plus how many anchors are being born. Seems to be about 50,000 unaccompanied minors.

So let's go (probably) low and just say 100,000 per year. Multiplied by $11,009 is $1.1 billion per year just for that new batch. 12 years of schooling = $13.2 billion.


Factor in cost of welfare and the damage they do undercutting labor wages and you see how quickly the wall pays for itself.

How can you live in a country this long and not understand where your taxes go? Education taxes are generally collected via property and state taxes, not income taxes. Do illegals not rent or own homes? Do they not shop within the US? Also illegals can't collect welfare... because they are illegal.. They can't even participate in any government programs unless they have been living in the country for over 5 years.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Why do you think economics, budgets and accounts are based on the number of good bought/sold?

Back in the day before our countries were so dependent on Retail, there were fewer people employed in retail. But there were far more employed in production and manufacturing.

sure it have been more but now they are replaced by machines.

you can not keep a production going just for keeping jobs.
time is changing and jobs are changing too.

but at the end of the day it all depends on the market size. if you want to throw immigrants out they will be missed as consumers and they will be missed as workers because NOBODY wants to make this kind of jobs.

and you have to keep another thing in mind - people who make less money can´t save money. and saved money is the biggest poison for an economy.

there would be no problem at all that a few people make billions if they would spend it. but first of all it is not possible to spend that much money and second of all this money does not even enter the country.

this is exactly what trump have in his mind when he speaks about tax decrease. he wants that money (aproximately 5 trillion dollars in company wins what never entered the USA)
come to USA to be spend there.

this is the one and only reason - because everybody knows about this trillions and it is not illegal money - these are just offshore profits from companies like google, apple, general electrics and far more who did not IMPORT this wins to USA because as long this money stays offshore it is not taxable.

and this would be the only (shortterm) effect he can catch with this tax present to the multis because once this money is in the country and tax is paid on it the future of ALL profits will be on lower tax.
this effect will be gone within in 2 or 3 years and the system must collaps.

but again - the immigrants in USA are NOT the problem. they are even helping to keep the national economy kind of alive.

the problem of USA is that they are not really good in anything as producing weapons - and this is why we have all this wars in the world because if they would be gone the US economy would break down.

all other big US industries are big because they are action in a global market they would not be able to survive without this global market.
not accepting globalisation means, that ALL this companies will suffer and if they have to close their international daughters because trump is trying to fight a economic war (what he can´t win) this companies will not only close their fabrication outsite - they have to close big parts of in INSIDE the US too.

america is the inventor of globalizm but did never learn how to play this game.

look what people all around the world KNOWING about USA.

mac Donalds - but they can´t export - they have to move into a foreign country to user the power of their marketing.

google, apple, starbucks and a big movie and music industry - tell me HOW they can survive without the global market?

look on the other site Germany. wages are not cheap, taxes are not low, prices are not cheaper - but made in germany is still working and the country can even sell expensive products all over the world - even new korean cars for a price of 1,999 euro could not change that.

this is what have been missed in US because americans are marketers. they know all about giving a piece of shit such a great name, that the whole world want to adapt it.

but WHAT KIND of american production is well known in the world? NOTHING - except weapons.

and there is not really a big difference with UK. what happens in USA will happen in UK too - and NOT because of the immigrants. if you take them out it will collapse just faster.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

The border wall is a long term investment that pays for itself even if Trump doesn't make Mexico pay for it.

Let's just take cost of educating an illegal youth or anchor baby. The average spent per student in the US is $11,009 per year.



In my town the Mexicans cost 1/3rd more because they require special programs, but we'll just go with the $11,009 figure anyway.

It's hard to find out how many Mexican kids are coming across the border plus how many anchors are being born. Seems to be about 50,000 unaccompanied minors.

So let's go (probably) low and just say 100,000 per year. Multiplied by $11,009 is $1.1 billion per year just for that new batch. 12 years of schooling = $13.2 billion.


Factor in cost of welfare and the damage they do undercutting labor wages and you see how quickly the wall pays for itself.

i really worry why young people of today have such a horrible knowledge about economy.

please answer yourself just ONE question:

even when this young students cost a trillion......TO WHOM IS THIS MONEY PAID ?????

do they pay it to the mexican goverment?
do they throw it in the sea?
or is that money paid to AMERICAN TAX PAYERS what getting a job and a life with it?
do they go to shopping to mexico?
do they rent houses in mexico?
are this schools not build and maintained by american companies?
and last not least - are this HIGH SKILLED students NOT necessary in the american economy?

sorry but your statemenst sound like the discussion between drunken losers in a beer bar what are looking for an easy answer for their own shitty life.

[Barry-xlovecam]

one thing for sure; when you get off the plane in America there is usually a toilet nearby and a drinking fountain -- good luck finding that in European airports haha good fucking luck

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

one thing for sure; when you get off the plane in America there is usually a toilet nearby and a drinking fountain -- good luck finding that in European airports haha good fucking luck

When you get on a plane in Europe you do not get your anus probed by TSA agents tho...

[Elli]

Why the fuck would you build a wall? Only a few people crawl across the border without being caught. It's not like the boatloads of refugees arriving on European shores, no matter how much Trump cries. The majority of overstayed "aliens" got into the country legally, and simply didn't leave.

Why aren't the companies that hire "illegals" being fined to the hilt? Remove their employment and they simply WON'T COME ANYMORE. That would also free up jobs for Americans. Why isn't this simple answer being enforced? Because cheap slave labour is what makes Walmart et al great, and those people have money in the race.

[Barry-xlovecam]

This year security was worse in European airports.
European airports are totally paranoid now ... Rome and Bucharest anyways ...
I was pre check in TSA I just walked through departure in my local USA airport. Returning home to pass through the domestic TSA wasn't bad this year at all. I was pleasantly surprised ...

[Barry-xlovecam]

Truth is those shit jobs need to be filled by someone and Americans don't want most of them.
Coal miners hate Mexican illegals -- they took their jobs

[beerptrol]

Neither of the two choices are important. Cutting taxes aka trickle down doesn't work. Make a flat tax rate of 16% and close all the loopholes. Companies and big money pay less than that or no taxes at all do to loopholes even though on paper the tax rate goes to 35+%

[VRPdommy]

Well, I can say that I will not benefit by any of the draft tax cuts I have seen.
So that ultimately means I will have a higher share in the national debt afterwards.

And it will be 'me, as one of many' that will be forced to pay for a wall that I did not ask for.
IMHO, A wall is meaningless unless you have boots on the ground to monitor it.
So why not just put the boots on the ground.
If you quit giving these folks near tax free jobs, they would have no desire to come here and would employ more Americans that pay taxes. Win-Win.
Oh... you might have to pay more for food. Perhaps many will quit wasting much of it.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

You have to get out of this euro mind funk of paying 20-25% VAT and working for 1/3 or 1/2 of USA wages.

There is only maybe 10% - 15% to be saved from the $3 trillion a year spent on healthcare - or ration it. That is still $400 billion per year maybe.

And the US has to get out of the mind funk that low taxes are good for a modern economy.

Let me explain how taxes in areas like share profits and capital gains. They don't tax the initial amount, they only tax the income from those areas. So if I buy a piece of land with already taxed money, say $20,000 and make a 100% profit. They only tax the profit which is income.

Must suck to pay tax on the original $20,000 which as you say has already been taxed.

Or do you expect the profit/income from these dealings to be tax free?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Elli

Why the fuck would you build a wall? Only a few people crawl across the border without being caught. It's not like the boatloads of refugees arriving on European shores, no matter how much Trump cries. The majority of overstayed "aliens" got into the country legally, and simply didn't leave.

Why aren't the companies that hire "illegals" being fined to the hilt? Remove their employment and they simply WON'T COME ANYMORE. That would also free up jobs for Americans. Why isn't this simple answer being enforced? Because cheap slave labour is what makes Walmart et al great, and those people have money in the race.

Building a wall stops some people, removing the ability to find a job or home. Removes most illegals. But that hits the 1% who run governments.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Truth is those shit jobs need to be filled by someone and Americans don't want most of them.
Coal miners hate Mexican illegals -- they took their jobs

Westerners don't want the jobs at the pay rate migrants are happy with. So you will have to pay more when you stop in a hotel. Or are you so greedy you don't mind putting Americans out of a job?

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Westerners don't want the jobs at the pay rate migrants are happy with. So you will have to pay more when you stop in a hotel. Or are you so greedy you don't mind putting Americans out of a job?

Paul do you understand the concept of irony?