Why do taxpayers pay billions for (am.) football stadiums?

[Paul&John]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e22yH5hUQ_A

[shimmy]

cause they bring a lot of tax revenue for the city

[Tasty1]

panem et circenses
bread and games

[Rochard]

People do not understand how much such stadiums make.

Take the new Levi stadium in Santa Clara, California, outside of San Francisco - home of the 49ers. My wife and I are huge 49ers fans. The stadium is nearly two hours away, but how much money have I spent there since the stadium opened? My wife and I have seen six games there since it opened, tickets at least $100 each if not more, $50 to park each time, plus meals, plus gas.... Each time we go we are spending anywhere from $400 - $500. How many concerts have I been to there? The three of us went to see Taylor Swift (don't laugh, I love Taylor!) at $200 a ticket. My kid has gone to a dozen concerts there since it opened.

It's not much different than the local high school. My wife is on the board that runs the youth football league. They rent out the stadium all day on Saturday for football games - $1500 for the day. This doesn't include what the school takes in at the gate when people pay to enter, or the snack bar. The school rakes in like $3k for the day just for the youth football games - plus $200 a day during the week for the youth league to rent the field for practice. But wait - that's only during the day. That night they have two more games for the high school teams. Of course that is just football - there is soccer, baseball, lacrosse.... Then on Sundays they hold other events - relay for life, ham radio festival, the yearly Portuguese festival, etc.

[Paul Markham]

Because local politicians are corrupt.

[Sly]

Most people look at the short-term cost and think it's ridiculous, without realizing all of the jobs these create along with the auxiliary jobs. The auxiliary jobs alone are massive.

Not to mention the huge value of keeping citizens happy. Cities need something that keeps citizens around. Some cities gambling, others use recreation, others scenery, others sports.

[blackmonsters]

Yeah, they should spend that tax money fighting online porn.

[beerptrol]

because the owners bribe the politicians.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Rochard

People do not understand how much such stadiums make.

Take the new Levi stadium in Santa Clara, California, outside of San Francisco - home of the 49ers. My wife and I are huge 49ers fans. The stadium is nearly two hours away, but how much money have I spent there since the stadium opened? My wife and I have seen six games there since it opened, tickets at least $100 each if not more, $50 to park each time, plus meals, plus gas.... Each time we go we are spending anywhere from $400 - $500. How many concerts have I been to there? The three of us went to see Taylor Swift (don't laugh, I love Taylor!) at $200 a ticket. My kid has gone to a dozen concerts there since it opened.

All over Europe, they build huge soccer stadiums with their own money. And do you know what? People still go to games, spend money, the stadiums employ people, etc. If the fans come they will build bigger stadiums.









18 of the 20 Premier League teams are in the process of building new stadiums, expanding existing stadiums and two have completed new larger stadiums. And ticket prices are similar, but no parking for most as cities are cramped places in the UK. Europe does the same. https://10mosttoday.com/10-largest-stadiums-in-europe/

Bums on seats equal cash in the bank. And no one is going to put a huge stadium for a big team in nowhere Idaho.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

All over Europe, they build huge soccer stadiums with their own money. And do you know what? People still go to games, spend money, the stadiums employ people, etc. If the fans come they will build bigger stadiums.

That may very well be true, it still comes down to supply and demand.

The Chargers were shopping cities for a long, long time. The San Diego Stadium was ancient and they needed an upgrade. Many cities wanted the Chargers so they offered packages trying to get them.

If a team can get a free stadium, why wouldn't they?

[kane]

In some cases, these stadiums bring a lot of money into the area, but in many of those cases it isn't enough to offset the cost associated with the tax breaks/tax money spent. The city of St. Louis is still paying more than $6 million per year in debt and taxes for the stadium they built for the Rams and the Rams are no longer even in that city. Another good example is the big, beautiful stadium they just built for the Florida Marlins. That new stadium helped skyrocket the value of the team then the owner sold it. Sure, the stadium might eventually turn a profit and turn out to be a decent investment, but the team owner basically gamed the system and padded his pockets.

In short, sometimes they are a good investment for cities, sometimes they aren't. The reality is these team owners didn't get filthy rich giving their money away so if they can get a deal that includes a ton of free tax money, you know they are going to take it and some cities are willing to give it to them for the perceived value of having the team there.

[Paul&John]

Originally Posted by Sly

The Chargers were shopping cities for a long, long time.

Actually I can't wrap my head around this part of American football, that teams can simply move from one city to an other. I mean if I would be a hardcore fan of one team for 20 years and they would simply move to an other place I would be pretty much pissed.

This is not really a possibility for Football teams in Europe. Real Madrid won't simply move to Paris or London

[kane]

Originally Posted by Paul&John

Actually I can't wrap my head around this part of American football, that teams can simply move from one city to an other. I mean if I would be a hardcore fan of one team for 20 years and they would simply move to an other place I would be pretty much pissed.

This is not really a possibility for Football teams in Europe. Real Madrid won't simply move to Paris or London

Teams don't really move all that often. Since 1982 there have been nine team moves and five of those involve either the Raiders or Rams. While teams that move may lose some fans they also gain a lot more. A quick search shows that a ton of European Football teams have moved over the years, but many of them seem to be smaller ones. If Real Madrid moved it would cause a crazy uprising from the fans and they would lose some, but I bet they would gain a ton in their new city. When it comes to sports, winning is what matters. If the team is winning, most everything is forgiven.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by kane

In some cases, these stadiums bring a lot of money into the area, but in many of those cases it isn't enough to offset the cost associated with the tax breaks/tax money spent. The city of St. Louis is still paying more than $6 million per year in debt and taxes for the stadium they built for the Rams and the Rams are no longer even in that city. Another good example is the big, beautiful stadium they just built for the Florida Marlins. That new stadium helped skyrocket the value of the team then the owner sold it. Sure, the stadium might eventually turn a profit and turn out to be a decent investment, but the team owner basically gamed the system and padded his pockets.

Those are fringe cases, a few bad eggs out of dozens.

St. Louis is not big enough for a NFL team. They bit off more than they could chew.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Paul&John

Actually I can't wrap my head around this part of American football, that teams can simply move from one city to an other. I mean if I would be a hardcore fan of one team for 20 years and they would simply move to an other place I would be pretty much pissed.

This is not really a possibility for Football teams in Europe. Real Madrid won't simply move to Paris or London

I can't see many twenty-year teams moving. It doesn't happen often. Your example is comparable really.

The New England Patriots are not moving, the Philadelphia Eagles are not moving, the Green Bay Packers are not moving. Those are all legacy teams with serious histories.

[FreeHugeMovies]

I love the NFL, but some of you guys really need to do research on the economic impact of an NFL stadium. Depending on how much the local tax payers pay, it's often not worth it in the long run.

[Paul&John]

Originally Posted by kane

Teams don't really move all that often. Since 1982 there have been nine team moves and five of those involve either the Raiders or Rams. While teams that move may lose some fans they also gain a lot more. A quick search shows that a ton of European Football teams have moved over the years, but many of them seem to be smaller ones. If Real Madrid moved it would cause a crazy uprising from the fans and they would lose some, but I bet they would gain a ton in their new city. When it comes to sports, winning is what matters. If the team is winning, most everything is forgiven.

According to https://www.nfl.com/teams there are only 32 NFL teams, so for a country that big (USA) one of them moving would mean almost the same as for a FC Barcelona or Manchester United to move to a different country in EU Of course they are still buying/selling players.
I'm just saying that if I would be born and raised in Barcelona and would cheer for FC Barcelona my whole life (and I would also see they play live every 2 weeks) I would be pretty pissed if they would move to Milan or Berlin

[JuicyBunny]

Stadiums are great. I just wish they'd go back to the old naming system and drop the corporate names. Fucking, yuck. They leave a lot of merch possibilities on the table, imho.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Sly

That may very well be true, it still comes down to supply and demand.

The Chargers were shopping cities for a long, long time. The San Diego Stadium was ancient and they needed an upgrade. Many cities wanted the Chargers so they offered packages trying to get them.

If a team can get a free stadium, why wouldn't they?

If local politicians are stupid enough or corrupt enough. No one can blame the teams. In Europe, if a stadium needed upgrading, the team or company behind it finds the money. Our voters are less gullible.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Paul&John

Actually I can't wrap my head around this part of American football, that teams can simply move from one city to an other. I mean if I would be a hardcore fan of one team for 20 years and they would simply move to an other place I would be pretty much pissed.

This is not really a possibility for Football teams in Europe. Real Madrid won't simply move to Paris or London

They would if given enough of taxpayers money.

[mineistaken]

Not keen on watching super libby vox.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Sly

St. Louis is not big enough for a NFL team. They bit off more than they could chew.

Quick glance and there seems to be smaller cities than St louis that has nfl teams (eg Buffalo). Or smaller metros eg Jacksonville and more.
St Louis does not seem that out of the scope on size.

[mineistaken]

As for teams moving, it may have to do with limited licenses to play in the league.
In Europe you would simply establish a new team in your desired city and qualify to the Euro league.

In US it is not that easy to "qualify" to nfl or nba, except by retaking the license.

[kane]

Originally Posted by mineistaken

As for teams moving, it may have to do with limited licenses to play in the league.
In Europe you would simply establish a new team in your desired city and qualify to the Euro league.

In US it is not that easy to "qualify" to nfl or nba, except by retaking the license.

In the US the pro sports leagues to occasionally expand and add new teams, but it doesn't happen very often. That last new NFL team was in 2002 and there have only been five new teams since 1976.

Often times teams move because they get better deals and can make more money. In Oakland, the team wanted a new stadium and they had trouble getting a deal for any number of reasons so they got an offer for a brand new multi-billion dollar facility in Las Vegas and took it. The new stadium will help the team make more money so Oakland is going to lose the team to Vegas.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by kane

In the US the pro sports leagues to occasionally expand and add new teams, but it doesn't happen very often. That last new NFL team was in 2002 and there have only been five new teams since 1976.

Often times teams move because they get better deals and can make more money. In Oakland, the team wanted a new stadium and they had trouble getting a deal for any number of reasons so they got an offer for a brand new multi-billion dollar facility in Las Vegas and took it. The new stadium will help the team make more money so Oakland is going to lose the team to Vegas.

The teams make more money. The taxpayer foots the bill. Local amenities are cut back. Unless local taxes are raised to cover the costs.

[rogueteens]

Originally Posted by Paul&John

Actually I can't wrap my head around this part of American football, that teams can simply move from one city to an other. I mean if I would be a hardcore fan of one team for 20 years and they would simply move to an other place I would be pretty much pissed.

This is not really a possibility for Football teams in Europe. Real Madrid won't simply move to Paris or London

I was going to post the same thing, it just seems so bizarre to me.