New big blue wall in Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania shakes up Republican strategy

[Bladewire]

The three states that won Trump the corrupt Electoral College in 2016 by 13,000 votes has officially turned blue in 2018 by tens of millions of votes!

Trump can't rely on Pennsylvania Wisconsin and Michigan to throw the election in his favor in 2020.

What's the Republican plan to win in 2020 without Michigan Pennsylvania and Wisconsin?

[Bladewire]

The Blue Wall is Strong & Tall for 2020

[VRPdommy]

Quite honestly, he won by reducing the turnout for Hillery by demonetization. Especially labor. hence the rust belt states he won. Because Bill had betrayed labor during his time in office.

I don't think the blue folks will stay at home next go around. May even have record turn out.
It's those red folks they may have issue with 10-20% of their turnout. And they know it and keep the base stirred with issues they create for it.

But one never knows what mess they can create to the blue nominee. Long way to go but generally, I don't see it.

Generically, I would say dems would likely take it by 65% but lots can happen. We will have to see who's computers get hacked the next time and how many child sex shops are in the basement of pizza shops that have no basement now won't we.

I would say that the red base stands no chance of growing in any case.

[kane]

You might not of heard . . . Trump is winning by a landslide in 2020

[onwebcam]

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

Generically, I would say dems would likely take it by 65% but lots can happen. We will have to see who's computers get hacked the next time and how many child sex shops are in the basement of pizza shops that have no basement now won't we.

This is what I'm thinking their strategy is, disenfranchising voters. long-time Democratic voters will miraculously fall off the voter registration and not be able to vote in Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania.

When people don't turn up to vote Republicans win.

[VRPdommy]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

This is what I'm thinking their strategy is, disenfranchising voters. long-time Democratic voters will miraculously fall off the voter registration and not be able to vote in Wisconsin, Michigan & Pennsylvania.

When people don't turn up to vote Republicans win.

I don't think that will work 'AGAIN'. They have to make a very good reason for the dem's to stay home. Most realize the mistake they made 2 years ago and will not admit it.

But if they stop the gerrymandering in just 2 states, it's game over no matter what.
I think that is already in play in Oh & Pa

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

I don't think that will work 'AGAIN'. They have to make a very good reason for the dem's to stay home. Most realize the mistake they made 2 years ago and will not admit it.

But if they stop the gerrymandering in just 2 states, it's game over no matter what.
I think that is already in play in Oh & Pa

The Republicans just lost their gerrymandering case in Ohio so that's a done deal there unless they appeal and the appeal goes past the 2020 election then we're fucked again.

The Wisconsin gerrymandering case will be heard in July.

The thing is they drag out these court cases so long that when they started the illegal gerrymandering in 2011 it's just now being found illegal, 8 years later, after protracted, purposely drawn out court cases. And the next district maps are drawn out in 2 years , 2021 so my guess is again they will illegal gerrymander it will again take eight nine years to go through the court system and it'll start all over again. Systematic corruption of the political system using the legal system as a time buffer.

Isn't it fascinating that the three states that gave Trump very narrow Electoral College win are three states that are so partisanly gerrymandered by Republicans that they all three have lawsuits one of which has been lost by the Republicans?

[VRPdommy]

What really concerns me is what happens when he looses.
It has always been a concern and you can see the writing on the wall as it will be crash and burn everything left in government.
Fighting in the streets ? Don't laugh as we have already seen how many are getting to excited over simple fake news and taking to the gun in the street.

I really worry what will become of us.

And then we have issues with these voting machines.
I would hope that everyone switches to a opticly read paper ballot that can be recounted as many times as needed if there ends up to be some Trojans in the machines.

[crockett]

All of those states have also had or in the process of being "un-fucked" by Republican gerrymandering.. PA will almost certainly go blue this go around.. It should have been blue last time but Republicans rigged the voting districts to win..


People should be calling this voter fraud & election fraud.. Call it what it is they did illegal shits and the courts have stated it was illegal.. They broke the law to win the election yet they didn't get put in jail. They are criminals and there needs to be punishment for this stuff from now on, they should not be aloud to rig our election process and get away with it..

[crockett]

For the record politicians and political parties should have nothing at all to do with drawing district lines. They should be drawn with computer software and then those results approved by a panel independent panel. Politicians who have something to gain should be no where near this process..

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

What really concerns me is what happens when he looses.
It has always been a concern and you can see the writing on the wall as it will be crash and burn everything left in government.
Fighting in the streets ? Don't laugh as we have already seen how many are getting to excited over simple fake news and taking to the gun in the street.

How delusional are you guys? If Trump loses, everyone on the right will wake up and go to work the next day. Do you honestly think if Hillary won the right would throw an atomic 2 year hissy fit?

[kane]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

How delusional are you guys? If Trump loses, everyone on the right will wake up and go to work the next day. Do you honestly think if Hillary won the right would throw an atomic 2 year hissy fit?

Of course they would have lost their shit. They hate Hillary and the Clintons so much they sold the soul of the party out to elect Trump because they didn't want her.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

How delusional are you guys? If Trump loses, everyone on the right will wake up and go to work the next day. Do you honestly think if Hillary won the right would throw an atomic 2 year hissy fit?

Yea because you right wing nuts aren't shooting up churches and schools every other week even after winning.. You would totally be "normal" had Hillary won, just like all the Tea Party fuckwits were completely sane and balanced after Obama won.. How delusional are you?

[VRPdommy]

Originally Posted by crockett

For the record politicians and political parties should have nothing at all to do with drawing district lines. They should be drawn with computer software and then those results approved by a panel independent panel. Politicians who have something to gain should be no where near this process..

That might be a bit of wishful thinking. But I do wish.
The moment a computer has the decision, is the moment we have a new argument about the programmer.

In every case I have seen where gerrymandering was decided, they split counties up to 4 districts to bunch a party to minority status.

In the state of Ohio, they made one district and many counties of nearly all the the Ohio river tract. Where much of the industry remains and that made those of a common industry interest only one vote whereas they had 7 votes along the river. that move not only hurt the dem's, but the state as a whole. They crammed most of the pro labor folks into 1 districts in Clev, akron in NE OH and over 4 counties split multiple ways.

So it shows they are willing to do it at any expense against their own interest at times and proves the care more about control than governess.

The same in Pa where many counties (larger than most states have) were split into 4&5 congressional districts. Similarly in NC. There was no hiding the gerrymandering.

Notice this map has been updated to reflect the court ordered changes in Pa a year ago.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/map
Any place you see a zig zag long stung out district implies gerrymandering.

What really gets me as we see this go a step further each time it comes around, I fear what may come next. It appears they can make their own rules as they go and not pay a price for it. In fact they get away with it for 8 years for the most part.

I don't have any real answers but what I see is just wrong.
Perhaps just a popular vote would stop the pressure to improperly change the districts and states could be better represented by districts of more common interest.

[kane]

Originally Posted by VRPdommy

That might be a bit of wishful thinking. But I do wish.
The moment a computer has the decision, is the moment we have a new argument about the programmer.

In every case I have seen where gerrymandering was decided, they split counties up to 4 districts to bunch a party to minority status.

In the state of Ohio, they made one district and many counties of nearly all the the Ohio river tract. Where much of the industry remains and that made those of a common industry interest only one vote whereas they had 7 votes along the river. that move not only hurt the dem's, but the state as a whole. They crammed most of the pro labor folks into 1 districts in Clev, akron in NE OH and over 4 counties split multiple ways.

So it shows they are willing to do it at any expense against their own interest at times and proves the care more about control than governess.

The same in Pa where many counties (larger than most states have) were split into 4&5 congressional districts. Similarly in NC. There was no hiding the gerrymandering.

Notice this map has been updated to reflect the court ordered changes in Pa a year ago.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/map
Any place you see a zig zag long stung out district implies gerrymandering.

What really gets me as we see this go a step further each time it comes around, I fear what may come next. It appears they can make their own rules as they go and not pay a price for it. In fact they get away with it for 8 years for the most part.

I don't have any real answers but what I see is just wrong.
Perhaps just a popular vote would stop the pressure to improperly change the districts and states could be better represented by districts of more common interest.

There doesn't seem to be any rules or laws now for anything. There is that case in North Carolina where they had proof that the Republican candidate committed voter fraud. Even his own son testified against him. Instead of him and those who did it getting in serious trouble, they are going to walk away and they will just redo the election. No consequences what so ever. It's sad.

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by kane

Of course they would have lost their shit. They hate Hillary and the Clintons so much they sold the soul of the party out to elect Trump because they didn't want her.

You think millions of right wingers would be marching across ever major city in the US having "not my president" rallies?

C'mon Kane...Be real dude.

[kane]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

You think millions of right wingers would be marching across ever major city in the US having "not my president" rallies?

C'mon Kane...Be real dude.

No, they throw different kinds of fits. They might not march but there would be plenty of hate not to mention endless investigations, chanting of "lock her up" for the entirety of her time in office, obstruction by the Republicans and those on the right doing everything they can to sabotage her. They threw fits non-stop during Obama's 8 years and they didn't hate him nearly as much as they hate Hillary.

So, no, millions wouldn't march in the street but there would be no shortages of Republicans losing their shit.

Just consider this. Had Hillary won then either Garland (Obama's nominee) or Hillary's when she took office, would have been on the supreme court. When Kennedy passed away she would have nominated a liberal judge to take his spot. You don't think Republicans wouldn't have shit themselves over that? Of course they would.

[VRPdommy]

Originally Posted by kane

There doesn't seem to be any rules or laws now for anything. There is that case in North Carolina where they had proof that the Republican candidate committed voter fraud. Even his own son testified against him. Instead of him and those who did it getting in serious trouble, they are going to walk away and they will just redo the election. No consequences what so ever. It's sad.

Yes, I was surprised by that but, you have to keep in mind that states make their own rules for their elections and most have differences so I was guessing they were following the state constitution. And as long as that is the case, I am fine with it. If they don't like their rules, they will need to change them themselves.

The federal government only mandates that elections are completely judged by the rules of the state as they were on election day. you can't change rules after the fact.

That indeed was the problem with the Supreme court case in Fl in 2000 with the chad counting. What a mess. So they had to in effect judge Fl rules for them and found the election had been certified by the state and the case was closed because at that point of certification, the state had adhered to it's rules as they were on election day.
Some may not have liked the outcome but it was legally correct, so I was OK with it.
But that does not mean there were not election issues to deal with before the next election.

Demanding the upholding of the rule of law is everyone's responsibility.
Again, if folks don't like the rules... change them.
To many to passive about this. And you see where that has landed us.

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by kane

So, no, millions wouldn't march in the street but there would be no shortages of Republicans losing their shit.

OK so I'm right. There would be no marches or public month long meltdowns like crockett claims. The right would go on with their lives...and you know it. The left are a bunch of babies.

[kane]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

OK so I'm right. There would be no marches or public month long meltdowns like crockett claims. The right would go on with their lives...and you know it. The left are a bunch of babies.

As I said, there likely wouldn't be marches, but there would be no shortage of them melting down.

Republicans have a smugness about them that makes them think they are the only ones with jobs and lives just because they choose not to exercise their right to protest in public. The right are just as big of babies, maybe even worse. The left protests and throws fits, the right figures out how to cheat the system and do shady things to win back what they lost.

[jsmih]

Generally, gerrymandering only impacts Congressional representation in the House. The Senate and President winners are set by the statewide vote, not the votes in individual congressional districts.

[TampaToker]

Originally Posted by jsmih

Generally, gerrymandering only impacts Congressional representation in the House. The Senate and President winners are set by the statewide vote, not the votes in individual congressional districts.

Lol was waiting for someone to post this

[kane]

Originally Posted by jsmih

Generally, gerrymandering only impacts Congressional representation in the House. The Senate and President winners are set by the statewide vote, not the votes in individual congressional districts.

One thing fixing the gerrymandering in a state can do in regards to statewide elections like Senate and President is make it harder to suppress the vote. For example, in 2004 in Ohio when the Secretary of State set things up, he sent a large number of voting machines to Republican heavy areas and a lot less to Democrat heavy areas. This made for long lines in the Democrat heavy areas and likely suppressed some vote. If there is less gerrymandering the districts, in theory, will be more balanced so it will be harder to do things like this.