China posts record $225.79 Billion trade surplus with USA

[Bladewire]

All this winning!

"For January-September, China's trade surplus with the United States was $225.79 billion, compared with about $196.01 billion in the same period last year, Reuters calculations showed."

China posts record trade surplus with the US in September

China recorded a record trade surplus of $34.13 billion with the U.S. in September amid intense trade tensions between the world's two largest economies.

Economists say strong Chinese export data recently is due to exporters benefiting from increased orders before U.S. tariffs hit, but the figures are likely to show stress in the months ahead.

For January-September, China's trade surplus with the United States was $225.79 billion, compared with about $196.01 billion in the same period last year, Reuters calculations showed.

Overall, China's dollar-denominated September exports surged 14.5 percent from a year ago, beating a Reuters analyst poll forecasting 8.9 percent growth in the same period. In August, Chinese exports grew 9.8 percent from a year ago.

In September, imports into China grew 14.3 percent from a year ago, missing analysts' predictions of 15 percent growth and slowing from growth of 19.9 percent for the month of August.

Despite escalating trade tensions with the U.S., Chinese data show the economy has largely held up so far.

Economists say the phenomenon is mostly due to exporters benefiting from increased orders before the tariffs hit, but the figures are likely to show stress in the months ahead.

The U.S. and China imposed the latest round of tit-for-tat tariffs against each other's goods in September.

"With global growth likely to cool further in the coming quarters and US tariffs set to become more punishing, the recent resilience of exports is unlikely to be sustained. Meanwhile, with policy easing unlikely to put a floor beneath domestic economic activity until the middle of next year, import growth is set to slow further," said Julian Evans-Pritchard, senior China economist at Capital Economics, a consultancy.

Even though the U.S. and China don't appear to be near a resolution in their trade discussions, the impact of U.S. tariffs on Chinese total industrial production will be limited, said Zhang Zhiwei, Deutsche Bank's chief economist and head of equity strategy for China.

If Trump imposes tariffs on an additional $267 billion of Chinese imports into his country, the Asian powerhouse's exposure to the U.S. market would only be 2 percent of its total industrial production, according to a study by Zhang.

So China's "focus now is to try to retain supply chains that support the rest of the world" that make up 25 percent of the country's total industrial production, Zhang told CNBC, citing the example of Apple iPhones exported to Europe.

[pimpmaster9000]

it is chinas fault americans buy more china goods than domesitc...bad bad china...

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

it is chinas fault americans buy more china goods than domesitc...bad bad china...

Well, one thing that is China's fault is they manipulated their currency to fall 9% and counter the tarriffs while simultaneously limiting purchase power of USA good by it's citizens lowering their demand in China.

[onwebcam]

Companies are overstocking inventories in anticipation of tariffs.

[RedFred]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Companies are overstocking inventories in anticipation of tariffs.

Not leaving your apartment for 2 years gives you an insight to corporation strategies all over America.

[Bladewire]

Trump has been telling us how successful the tarriff war has been , as companies close, layoff employees & raise prices.

Now the lie is revealed and Trump trolls make excuses denying the failure. Typical

[OneHungLo]

Trump is working on it.

It’s funny that you’re passionate about this. Tell us, besides take a large “charity” donation from China, what was Hillary’s plan to tackle this?

[thommy]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Companies are overstocking inventories in anticipation of tariffs.

you are correct with this statement and this is the reason why you can not see much higher consumer prices yet as long as this stocks are existing.

but there are a few other issues what you did not look at.
one of them is that many companies in china are 100% daughters of foreign companies.

so let´s do this example:

a japanese company owns an own production in china and the mother company in japan sells the stuff.

as this products are not covered by trump´s tariffs (because they are not bought from china but from japan) they will get into the country without tariffs.
but as they are delivered FROM china they are counted like imports from china.

BTW: also the imports that entering the US from china what are forward delivered to a company in canada and is paid from this canadian company is effecting the trade balance between USA and china (what makes no sense at all except to show people completely wrong numbers).

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Trump has been telling us how successful the tarriff war has been , as companies close, layoff employees & raise prices.

Now the lie is revealed and Trump trolls make excuses denying the failure. Typical

Sure seems that way. Let's hope cooler heads prevail soon. But I don't think China is a Canada. At the very least, things are way more complicated.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Companies are overstocking inventories in anticipation of tariffs.

Companies are overstocking for the upcoming holiday selling season. You should be too. I know we are.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by thommy

you are correct with this statement and this is the reason why you can not see much higher consumer prices yet as long as this stocks are existing.

but there are a few other issues what you did not look at.
one of them is that many companies in china are 100% daughters of foreign companies.

so let´s do this example:

a japanese company owns an own production in china and the mother company in japan sells the stuff.

as this products are not covered by trump´s tariffs (because they are not bought from china but from japan) they will get into the country without tariffs.
but as they are delivered FROM china they are counted like imports from china.

BTW: also the imports that entering the US from china what are forward delivered to a company in canada and is paid from this canadian company is effecting the trade balance between USA and china (what makes no sense at all except to show people completely wrong numbers).

Thommy, with an economy as robust as ours is now, we should have a stellar q4. This is where retail profits are taken every year anyway, on top of a hot economy. We are in full swing right now ramping up for it.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Well, one thing that is China's fault is they manipulated their currency to fall 9% and counter the tarriffs while simultaneously limiting purchase power of USA good by it's citizens lowering their demand in China.

and what?
even IF they do that (what i do not doubt) it makes products affordable in USA.
affordable = prosperity

the other products they are delivering to USA are parts of machines and cars and phones for the export market.
means they help to keep the selling price for those exports low.

where exactly is the problem ?

does apple want to produce iphones what are ending up on 3000 dollar in the shops?
how much do you think they would export ?

how many american cars would be exported when they can not compete with the prices from other countries? and 50% of the parts in american cars are made in china.

do you want to buy cars and phones same overpriced as you buy medical care?

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by RedFred

Not leaving your apartment for 2 years gives you an insight to corporation strategies all over America.

it's stated in the article you fucking illiterate retard.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by thommy

and what?
even IF they do that (what i do not doubt) it makes products affordable in USA.
affordable = prosperity

the other products they are delivering to USA are parts of machines and cars and phones for the export market.
means they help to keep the selling price for those exports low.

where exactly is the problem ?

does apple want to produce iphones what are ending up on 3000 dollar in the shops?
how much do you think they would export ?

how many american cars would be exported when they can not compete with the prices from other countries? and 50% of the parts in american cars are made in china.

do you want to buy cars and phones same overpriced as you buy medical care?

They have done it, it's not IF they'll do it.

The problem is it increased the trade gap to record numbers, exactly the opposite of Trump's goal.

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Well, one thing that is China's fault is they manipulated their currency to fall 9% and counter the tarriffs while simultaneously limiting purchase power of USA good by it's citizens lowering their demand in China.

and the USA exports its inflation to other countries and enforces the dollar with war...this keeps the price of the dollar artificially high and increases the purchasing power of americans...you can not honestly expect to tell others something is wrong when you do not lead by example...this is "trumps made in china hat" politics...do as I say and not as I do...

china did not put a gun to your heads to move production there, china did not force you to buy tons of their goods, china did exactly what you wanted when it kept its currency low so that you can produce cheap and buy plenty...you are being hostile towards somebody you used to increase your own standards by means of reducing price...a classic case of "will you love me in the morning?"...

now its bad bad china!...we find your goods too attractive!...AGAIN they are not forcing you to do shit...IRL Trump is telling you a convenient lie to promote his own agendas...americans do not give a shit about buying american, they want cheap shit and the proof is in the pudding <---this is the ugly truth nobody wants to hear....stop all trade with china and your corps will go to africa or somewhere else...

you are greedy capitalists who will always sell each other out...this will never change

[BaldBastard]

Trump has put in place inflationary policies, all currency has fallen to the USD this year, The Chinese and all us foreign webmasters are all making more because of it.

Only ones hit is the American consumer paying the hidden tariff tax.

Call it Import tax and it might sink in better.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

and the USA exports its inflation to other countries and enforces the dollar with war...this keeps the price of the dollar artificially high and increases the purchasing power of americans...you can not honestly expect to tell others something is wrong when you do not lead by example...this is "trumps made in china hat" politics...do as I say and not as I do...

china did not put a gun to your heads to move production there, china did not force you to buy tons of their goods, china did exactly what you wanted when it kept its currency low so that you can produce cheap and buy plenty...you are being hostile towards somebody you used to increase your own standards by means of reducing price...a classic case of "will you love me in the morning?"...

now its bad bad china!...we find your goods too attractive!...AGAIN they are not forcing you to do shit...IRL Trump is telling you a convenient lie to promote his own agendas...americans do not give a shit about buying american, they want cheap shit and the proof is in the pudding <---this is the ugly truth nobody wants to hear....stop all trade with china and your corps will go to africa or somewhere else...

you are greedy capitalists who will always sell each other out...this will never change

You are shell shocked.

I didn't say that China's currency manipulation was bad. I'd do the same thing.

I'm pointing out that Trump is losing at his own flawed game.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Trump has put in place inflationary policies, all currency has fallen to the USD this year, The Chinese and all us foreign webmasters are all making more because of it.

Only ones hit is the American consumer paying the hidden tariff tax.

Call it Import tax and it might sink in better.

correct and this problem will become even bigger when more fresh money is pumped into the market and given to people who will not pay it back but increase the demand.

this will produce even higher prices and the fed can only answer with higher interest rates.

higher interest will:

a. move money from the stock market to fixed deposits
b. bring a higher demand on the dollar because also money from outside will go where the high interest ist.

and the consequence is a even higher dollar what makes imports cheaper and exports
harder.

plus: there will be too much money in the loan market because the demand on loans will decrease.

you can guess 3 times what they will do than.
they will payout credits to people what are even more unable to pay it back and we are back in 2004-2008 when that bubble crashed.

if they do not do that the us will pay higher interst for foreign money that nobody else want to borrow than the financially broken.

if the import prices will increase all that happens just faster because the consumer prices will rise to the sky.

and no - the FED is not crazy when they increase the interest - it is their one and only chance to react on things what have been so predictable wrong.

no matter what the stock market is doing in the next few weeks - it might go up and down - the destination is already stone-chiseled.
it would be the first time in the history of economy when this would not happen and there is not one logic reason for that.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

You are shell shocked.

I didn't say that China's currency manipulation was bad. I'd do the same thing.

I'm pointing out that Trump is losing at his own flawed game.

he can only lose on that game because he is trying to fight against gravity.
he tries to manage a country with the knowledge of a business man who´s only talent is, not to pay bills.

he is repeating mistakes what have done before him.
maybe he does just not know it or he is ignoring the fact that all of them was leading into
a depression.

I don´t really understand why people think a senile old fart can fix things with recipes that are proven garbage. it is the same as with kids. you can tell them 1000 times to not touch the fire - they will not believe it before the hand is burned.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Trump has put in place inflationary policies, all currency has fallen to the USD this year, The Chinese and all us foreign webmasters are all making more because of it.

Only ones hit is the American consumer paying the hidden tariff tax.

Call it Import tax and it might sink in better.

wrong. 7 fed interest rate hikes with more looming are the big influence. trump had nothing to do with those.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Trump has put in place inflationary policies, all currency has fallen to the USD this year, The Chinese and all us foreign webmasters are all making more because of it.

Only ones hit is the American consumer paying the hidden tariff tax.

Call it Import tax and it might sink in better.

moreover, this view completely ignores country's own contributions to their own problems

you think venezuela is in the shitter on account of trump? hardly. you think China has $7 trillion of bad debt unaccounted for is because of trump? no. You think argentina is going bankrupt because of trump? please.

trump sucks but take some ownership.

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

wrong. 7 fed interest rate hikes with more looming are the big influence. trump had nothing to do with those.

Huh?

He had much to do with the reasons they needed to raise rates, it's a classic cause and effect of simulating an economy that doesn't need simulation.

The fear of that is if there's a real reason, like another recession, then bad luck the piggy banks have already been broken.

If the plan was good.. other countries can do exactly the same, strange no other countries have jumped on the bandwagon.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Huh?

He had much to do with the reasons they needed to raise rates, it's a classic cause and effect of simulating an economy that doesn't need simulation.

The fear of that is if there's a real reason, like another recession, then bad luck the piggy banks have already been broken.

If the plan was good.. other countries can do exactly the same, strange no other countries have jumped on the bandwagon.

wait, so trump is responsible for the US economy kicking ass. make up your mind.

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

wait, so trump is responsible for the US economy kicking ass. make up your mind.

American economy would of been kicking ass regardless but at a slower rate, still kicking ass though.

By artificially simulating it, offshore loot, reduced taxes, deregulation, you get a short term boost, which causes inflation "interest rates go up" which is ok as long as that offshore loot and reduced taxes was used to paydown debt, and Government debt is going into infrastructure or economy building projects.

But neither of those two seem to of happened all we've seen is government and consumer debt continue to skyrocket, which is fiscal insanity when inflationary policies are in place.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

American economy would of been kicking ass regardless but at a slower rate, still kicking ass though.

By artificially simulating it, offshore loot, reduced taxes, deregulation, you get a short term boost, which causes inflation "interest rates go up" which is ok as long as that offshore loot and reduced taxes was used to paydown debt, and Government debt is going into infrastructure or economy building projects.

But neither of those two seem to of happened all we've seen is government and consumer debt continue to skyrocket, which is fiscal insanity when inflationary policies are in place.

QE was over here. everyone knows that.

heads up: inflation is the risk of any booming economy, not of an artificial economy. you can't even begin to argue that our economy is artificial. get real. offshore loot? please, plenty of that loot was spent buying back stock. we are not only in no worse shape than any other country, we are debt wise, much better, and certainly way better economy wise.

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

QE was over here. everyone knows that.

heads up: inflation is the risk of any booming economy, not of an artificial economy. you can't even begin to argue that our economy is artificial. get real. offshore loot? please, plenty of that loot was spent buying back stock. we are not only in no worse shape than any other country, we are debt wise, much better, and certainly way better economy wise.

Well we're going to find out how debt wise you are next year aren't we ;)

btw here's an overview of the Australian economy

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/what-s-h...alia-s-economy

no tax breaks, no loot, no deregulation.... BUT ALL of those are an option if needed. Australia is a good barometer as to what would of happened in America, if the economy was just left on Obama fiscal policies.... kicking ass

You go ARTIFICIALLY inflating that, then you speed up inflation, a Government's job fiscally is to mange that... Trumps failed.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Well we're going to find out how debt wise you are next year aren't we ;)

btw here's an overview of the Australian economy

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/what-s-h...alia-s-economy

no tax breaks, no loot, no deregulation.... BUT ALL of those are an option if needed. Australia is a good barometer as to what would of happened in America, if the economy was just left on Obama fiscal policies.... kicking ass

You go ARTIFICIALLY inflating that, then you speed up inflation, a Government's job fiscally is to mange that... Trumps failed.

this is exactly my point. when an economy is doing good, you give that country credit for it. when an economy is doing shitty, you give America credit for it.

I'm not an economist but I but one would blow holes in your theory that the USA can be run like AUS.

and please, stop trying to tell an American business owner who is moving a lot of merch daily that our economy is fake. the only thing fake right now is the fake Christmas tree I'm thinking of getting this year instead of a real one.

[Alex CZ]

American policy is flawed

[thommy]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

wait, so trump is responsible for the US economy kicking ass. make up your mind.

yes and no. trump is not responsible for the economic upswing since 2009 - he can't at all. that was obama.

but obama did it differently (though not without negative consequences). he printed money and indirectly gave it to the companies by buying shares (imagine where that would have led in the long run if the american state had been the owner of the shares in the company at the end).

even if this move wouldn't have worked in the long run, it was clever, because shares are indirect credits that companies needed because the bank didn't have any more money. and shares don't have to be paid back at some point.

but what trump is solely responsible for is the bubble he generated to fuel the booming DOMESTIC economy even further. and the domestic economy is the ONLY thing that is booming. the trade balance since trump is the worst since 2009. by abolishing the dodd frank act, he has enabled banks and financial institutions to give lazy loans again to people who are already overindebted anyway.

this borrowed money has made sure that the domestic market demand has increased enormously. the people who can't afford houses now have some - on credit. the people who could only afford a cheaper car now have a more expensive - on credit.
and in addition, this rising demand triggered fears of interest that even families who can calculate and who had actually planned a house purchase in the distant future, have preferred this house purchase to take the cheap interest rates with them.

the boom you see here is a borrowed boom because it is based on overindebtedness. never before in american history have americans been so heavily indebted - not even in 2008. but there it was the trigger for the financial crisis.

in addition, trump believes you gain your own strength if you weaken others. this may apply to real estate companies but not to world trade. he forgets that he also weakens the purchasing power of his "competition" and that he thus causes interest rate hikes in his own country which in turn strengthen his own currency. customers with weak purchasing power do not buy where it is expensive but where it is cheapest.

the other states of the world have done what obama did as well. but they have ended it a long time ago and thus reduced their debt. america is still indebted at a level that makes the mountain of debt grow faster and faster.

the initial situation for a trade war is therefore very bad, because the "opponents" simply have more room for maneuver, while the USA has already exhausted all possibilities.

a good formula 1 pilot does not only use the speed of his car but also calculates the weight of the fuel. he also knows that he uses more fuel when driving fast and that this will make his car stopping before the aim of the race.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Trump has been telling us how successful the tarriff war has been , as companies close, layoff employees & raise prices.

Now the lie is revealed and Trump trolls make excuses denying the failure. Typical

Do you really believe one President can turn back the tide of 40 years?

They started making cheap stuff, now they lead the world in many technologies. Putting Americans and Europeans out of work, on lower pay and some needing government money to live. Those extra costs make the lower labour costs in the Third World irrelevant.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Do you really believe one President can turn back the tide of 40 years?

They started making cheap stuff, now they lead the world in many technologies. Putting Americans and Europeans out of work, on lower pay and some needing government money to live. Those extra costs make the lower labour costs in the Third World irrelevant.

you're forgetting something very important.
these 3rd world countries were, are and will always be more productive when it comes to the use of people. that's not new that's been the case for thousands of years.

they are 3rd because the 1st were always one step ahead when it comes to long-term thinking and new technologies.

germany, for example, is quite far behind in the race for e-mobility and the reason for this is that there are no battery factories there. the chinese believed in this development and have the infrastructure and production for it already and they are FAR in front of europe and US when it comes to alternative energies and peripher supplyment.

unfortunately, batteries are too heavy to be transported cheaply over long distances. therefore the chinese are building now a battery factory directly in germany and creating many german jobs with german workers. and here it makes MUCH sense because the high transportation costs and the big ammount makes it worth to produce it in the country with much higher wages.

trump doesn't believe in climate change and prefers to mine coal rather than invest in future technologies and thus stay one step ahead of the chinese.

wind, solar, ground heat, waves and much more that not only makes our planet healthier but also creates new industries are unknown to trump.

he created a few 10 k new coal jobs but no one talks about the jobs he killed in this new technology. even when solar parts has been mainly produced in china they have been sold by american companies, maintained and installed by american workers.
and they have to eat coal now.

you can't expect other countries to stop developing just because one of the big ones wants to rest or does not believe in progress. standstill is regression.

and just like you don't understand the world of the internet any more today and assume that they can never do it as great as you could. trump doesn't know how to deal with the challenges of a new world.
he belongs in a retirement home and not on a presidential chair

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

this is exactly my point. when an economy is doing good, you give that country credit for it. when an economy is doing shitty, you give America credit for it.

I'm not an economist but I but one would blow holes in your theory that the USA can be run like AUS.

and please, stop trying to tell an American business owner who is moving a lot of merch daily that our economy is fake. the only thing fake right now is the fake Christmas tree I'm thinking of getting this year instead of a real one.

This will become the next problem, because while your out buying that Christmas tree and American business is bathing in borrowed money celebrating trumps tariffs, the Chinese are spending their Christmas trying to work out how they can lower their production rates and increase productivity to counter those tariffs.

Combine that with an inflationary fiscal policy and you might see trump is doing considerable long term damage to the American economy. Keep in mind internal spending is not where the country makes money, that comes from exports and where you have two competing products being sold in another country, the Chinese will win.. cos they weren't out buying Xmas trees ;)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/66156047.cms

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

This will become the next problem, because while your out buying that Christmas tree and American business is bathing in borrowed money celebrating trumps tariffs, the Chinese are spending their Christmas trying to work out how they can lower their production rates and increase productivity to counter those tariffs.

Combine that with an inflationary fiscal policy and you might see trump is doing considerable long term damage to the American economy.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/66156047.cms

jesus titty fucking christ you're one of the most negative persons I've ever come across. on top of being anti-American and glib.

fact: a negative anti-American GFYer has no fucking idea of the long term effect of anything, let alone economics.

go play with your anti-American ruski disinformation blog. tell your ruski komrades America says get fucked.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by thommy

yes and no. trump is not responsible for the economic upswing since 2009 - he can't at all. that was obama.

but obama did it differently (though not without negative consequences). he printed money and indirectly gave it to the companies by buying shares (imagine where that would have led in the long run if the american state had been the owner of the shares in the company at the end).

even if this move wouldn't have worked in the long run, it was clever, because shares are indirect credits that companies needed because the bank didn't have any more money. and shares don't have to be paid back at some point.

but what trump is solely responsible for is the bubble he generated to fuel the booming DOMESTIC economy even further. and the domestic economy is the ONLY thing that is booming. the trade balance since trump is the worst since 2009. by abolishing the dodd frank act, he has enabled banks and financial institutions to give lazy loans again to people who are already overindebted anyway.

this borrowed money has made sure that the domestic market demand has increased enormously. the people who can't afford houses now have some - on credit. the people who could only afford a cheaper car now have a more expensive - on credit.
and in addition, this rising demand triggered fears of interest that even families who can calculate and who had actually planned a house purchase in the distant future, have preferred this house purchase to take the cheap interest rates with them.

the boom you see here is a borrowed boom because it is based on overindebtedness. never before in american history have americans been so heavily indebted - not even in 2008. but there it was the trigger for the financial crisis.

in addition, trump believes you gain your own strength if you weaken others. this may apply to real estate companies but not to world trade. he forgets that he also weakens the purchasing power of his "competition" and that he thus causes interest rate hikes in his own country which in turn strengthen his own currency. customers with weak purchasing power do not buy where it is expensive but where it is cheapest.

the other states of the world have done what obama did as well. but they have ended it a long time ago and thus reduced their debt. america is still indebted at a level that makes the mountain of debt grow faster and faster.

the initial situation for a trade war is therefore very bad, because the "opponents" simply have more room for maneuver, while the USA has already exhausted all possibilities.

a good formula 1 pilot does not only use the speed of his car but also calculates the weight of the fuel. he also knows that he uses more fuel when driving fast and that this will make his car stopping before the aim of the race.

1. this should be directed to the anti-American ruski komrade, not me. I understand economics and have a finger on the pulse of reality and don't work with ruskis to spread disinformation about USA.

2. a lot of this is inaccurate and implies America operated in a bubble during the financial crisis. it also neglects to include the entire world is immersed in debt right now and taken in perspective, America is doing much much much better than most any other country re: debt, if not all.



you guys can make up wild exclamations about this current boom all you want. the simple point is we are in one, regardless of what you think brought it around. Moreover, all booms end just like all busts end. I'm not going to sit around whining about a boom when I'm in one. you can, but I'm going to make some fucking money, it's a boom economy. why would I bitch about that. Maybe you do because you're not a part of it.

[dyna mo]

Beijing may have to think again about domestic consumption being the main economic driver as rising debt levels take their toll on willingness to spend.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...s-middle-class

add in China's government debt

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/econ...s-credit-binge

add in $7 trillion of bad debt

https://www.businessinsider.com/chin...suggest-2017-8

somehow you guys do the math on that and come up with America bad.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Beijing may have to think again about domestic consumption being the main economic driver as rising debt levels take their toll on willingness to spend.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...s-middle-class

add in China's government debt

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/econ...s-credit-binge

add in $7 trillion of bad debt

https://www.businessinsider.com/chin...suggest-2017-8

somehow you guys do the math on that and come up with America bad.

The topic is Chinas record breaking trade surplus with America.

Trying to spin their record trade surplus as something good for Trump, who started the trade war to end their trade surplus, is futile

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

The topic is Chinas record breaking trade surplus with America.

Trying to spin their record trade surplus as something good for Trump, who started the trade war to end their trade surplus, is futile

I'm not the one who deviated from the topic, in fact I replied to the topic. As an American in touch with reality, I simply addressed those incorrect deviations.

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

Beijing may have to think again about domestic consumption being the main economic driver as rising debt levels take their toll on willingness to spend.

https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...s-middle-class

add in China's government debt

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/econ...s-credit-binge

add in $7 trillion of bad debt

https://www.businessinsider.com/chin...suggest-2017-8

somehow you guys do the math on that and come up with America bad.

Which countries list China as their major trading partner/ source of income?

And the answer to that is basically every country, China is in mega debt because they're doing the biggest infrastructure build in history, USA is in mega debt.. just to keep the country running.

businessinsider.com is Murdoch ruski seed site.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Which countries list China as their major trading partner/ source of income?

And the answer to that is basically every country, China is in mega debt because they're doing the biggest infrastructure build in history, USA is in mega debt.. just to keep the country running.

businessinsider.com is Murdoch ruski seed site.

obviously you didn't read a single word of any of those articles. One of them is specifically about China consumer debt/savings. that has nothing to do with government debt.

you literally have no fucking clue what you are yapping about, anti-American.

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

obviously you didn't read a single word of any of those articles. One of them is specifically about China consumer debt/savings. that has nothing to do with government debt.

you literally have no fucking clue what you are yapping about, anti-American.

Did you read your links?

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/econ...s-credit-binge

like this one, let me refresh you on how it begins...

"Like many other Chinese cities, Changde has been on an infrastructure spending spree that went well beyond what the government could afford"

-- China's personal debt level is still well below western levels, though rapidly expanding. If the Chinese Government did a major clamp down on personal lenders ( and they can ) problem stops. If a crash happened because of Chinas personal debt levels, its really going to effect no one but China, if a crash happened because the Government goes broke... the whole world suffers.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

if a crash happened because the Government goes broke... the whole world suffers.

Nah we'll just get stuff cheaper and they'll stop their militarization of the South China Sea :D

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Did you read your links?

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/econ...s-credit-binge

like this one, let me refresh you on how it begins...

"Like many other Chinese cities, Changde has been on an infrastructure spending spree that went well beyond what the government could afford"

-- China's personal debt level is still well below western levels, though rapidly expanding. If the Chinese Government did a major clamp down on personal lenders ( and they can ) problem stops. If a crash happened because of Chinas personal debt levels, its really going to effect no one but China, if a crash happened because the Government goes broke... the whole world suffers.

I never discounted china government debt. you seem to think China has one or the other and fail to comprehend that they are dealing with both.

you also fail to realize eu household debt is significantly worse than US.

your anti-Americanism blinds you to reality. no wonder you need to make anti-American blogs.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

you also fail to realize eu household debt is significantly worse than US.

i think we should discuss on the same facts.
the household deficit in the eurozone is -0.7 forecast 2019 is at -0.6 while the deficit in us is -5.3

and it went up since trump !

2014: -4.8
2015: -4.2
2016: -4.9
2017: -4.9
2018: -5.3
forecast 2019 is actually: -5.9

these numbers are net % of GdP

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by thommy

i think we should discuss on the same facts.
the household deficit in the eurozone is -0.7 forecast 2019 is at -0.6 while the deficit in us is -5.3

and it went up since trump !

2014: -4.8
2015: -4.2
2016: -4.9
2017: -4.9
2018: -5.3
forecast 2019 is actually: -5.9

these numbers are net % of GdP

i stand corrected. eu household debt is somewhat lower than US. nevertheless, my point still stands, America is not unique re: household debt. and China is certainly not exempt.

it's incorrect to count America out. It's incorrect to assume the future of America is kaput. and it's incorrect to neglect the massive issues plaguing china just so a finger can be pointed at America to conclude the American is doomed. the economy cycles, we're in a boom, it's foolish to exclaim it's a pipedream. of course it will end, it's a cycle. we jump in when the cycle is good and hang on when it's not. we don't sit around and claim the boom is artificial.

[Busty2]

Having lived and worked in China and Taiwan i would not believe a word of what the government say about anything let alone a trade surplus.

I'm surprised Chump dose not get on better with the Chinese as they, like him incessantly lie about everything.

I was working on the science museum in Taiwan some years ago, spending more than a year working with their government and contractors. Everything is done on what we Brits call backhanders. If the contractor dose not get his cash bribe the work dose not get done.
While i was there i visited many of the so called sweat shops where companies like Apple and Invicta watches have there products made for pennies, then sold in the USA and around the world for up to 100 times the cost of production. The only rich people in China and Taiwan are the business owners and government, most workers live below the poverty line.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i stand corrected. eu household debt is somewhat lower than US. nevertheless, my point still stands, America is not unique re: household debt. and China is certainly not exempt.

in compare to many other countries is is an exempt.

government debt to GDP in china is actually at 47.6%

https://tradingeconomics.com/china/g...nt-debt-to-gdp

us is at 105,4 %

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...nt-debt-to-gdp

how much US dept to gdp will be when this tradewar ends?

on top of that busty made a good point.
chinese people will suck every crisis because they are used to.
most of them have just enough to eat and no other expectation.

how many % of their prosperity will americans give up?

i just think it's a bad idea to cut off your fingers because you think the other person can't see blood. but that's exactly what trump is doing, and he's doing so much damage to america and the world economy that on the day he learns, nobody can buy anything that comes from an expensive production country anymore. and i do not mean the us alone.
every other partner in the west will have the same problem.

and WHO won then?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by thommy

in compare to many other countries is is an exempt.

government debt to GDP in china is actually at 47.6%

https://tradingeconomics.com/china/g...nt-debt-to-gdp

us is at 105,4 %

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...nt-debt-to-gdp

how much US dept to gdp will be when this tradewar ends?

on top of that busty made a good point.
chinese people will suck every crisis because they are used to.
most of them have just enough to eat and no other expectation.

how many % of their prosperity will americans give up?

i just think it's a bad idea to cut off your fingers because you think the other person can't see blood. but that's exactly what trump is doing, and he's doing so much damage to america and the world economy that on the day he learns, nobody can buy anything that comes from an expensive production country anymore. and i do not mean the us alone.
every other partner in the west will have the same problem.

and WHO won then?

I don't disagree that the trade war is very very risky and I've always disagreed with it and Trump's negotiating tactics. As I also understand it, China doesn't have much room to give either. Not everything can be perfectly fair.

But I'm not getting what you're saying overall? Busty did make a good point.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

you're forgetting something very important.
these 3rd world countries were, are and will always be more productive when it comes to the use of people. that's not new that's been the case for thousands of years.

they are 3rd because the 1st were always one step ahead when it comes to long-term thinking and new technologies.

germany, for example, is quite far behind in the race for e-mobility and the reason for this is that there are no battery factories there. the chinese believed in this development and have the infrastructure and production for it already and they are FAR in front of europe and US when it comes to alternative energies and peripher supplyment.

unfortunately, batteries are too heavy to be transported cheaply over long distances. therefore the chinese are building now a battery factory directly in germany and creating many german jobs with german workers. and here it makes MUCH sense because the high transportation costs and the big ammount makes it worth to produce it in the country with much higher wages.

trump doesn't believe in climate change and prefers to mine coal rather than invest in future technologies and thus stay one step ahead of the chinese.

wind, solar, ground heat, waves and much more that not only makes our planet healthier but also creates new industries are unknown to trump.

he created a few 10 k new coal jobs but no one talks about the jobs he killed in this new technology. even when solar parts has been mainly produced in china they have been sold by american companies, maintained and installed by american workers.
and they have to eat coal now.

you can't expect other countries to stop developing just because one of the big ones wants to rest or does not believe in progress. standstill is regression.

and just like you don't understand the world of the internet any more today and assume that they can never do it as great as you could. trump doesn't know how to deal with the challenges of a new world.
he belongs in a retirement home and not on a presidential chair

You're ignoring the true costs of allowing the 3rd world to take so many of Western jobs, production and tax revenues. Then create so many poor in the West we are now at a point where the West is unable to pay the costs of supporting the poor.

No doubt when you move so much to the 3rd World the losses to tax revenues are huge. The taxes a business pays from corporation, building, fuel, employee taxes, etc. Now mean Western countries can't raise the revenues they need.

At a time of more demand on Governments to support the poor with benefits of all kinds, we now have more people paying less taxes because wages are lower.

But no worries for you I doubt if you will ever have to pay the true costs. So blindly go on doing something bad just because you can.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by MrBaldBastard

Which countries list China as their major trading partner/ source of income?

And the answer to that is basically every country, China is in mega debt because they're doing the biggest infrastructure build in history, USA is in mega debt.. just to keep the country running.

businessinsider.com is Murdoch ruski seed site.

Add the EU to those in mega debt and rising.

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You're ignoring the true costs of allowing the 3rd world to take so many of Western jobs, production and tax revenues.

paul would never move his production to a cheap country...paul leads by example