Japanese tanker owner contradicts U.S. officials over explosives used in Gulf of Oman attack

[RedFred]

Looking like the Trump admin is lying to justify starting a war......


The Japanese owner of a tanker attacked in the Gulf of Oman claimed Friday that it was struck by a flying projectile, contradicting reports by U.S. officials and the military on the source of the blast.

U.S. Central Command said the two vessels were hit Thursday by a limpet mine, which is attached to boats below the waterline using magnets. U.S. Central Command released video it claimed showed an Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps patrol boat removing an unexploded mine from one of the tankers, the Kokuka Courageous.

But on Friday morning, the owner of the 560-foot Courageous, said that sailors saw something flying toward the vessel just before the explosion and that the impact was well above the waterline.

"I do not think there was a time bomb or an object attached to the side of the ship."

U.S. officials have not yet responded to the claims. But President Donald Trump reiterated U.S. allegations that Iran was behind the attack, telling the Fox News Channel that the incident had "Iran written all over it."

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said on Thursday that the weapons used and the level of expertise behind the attack suggested Tehran is the culprit.

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif angrily dismissed the claims and said they were without "a shred of factual or circumstantial evidence."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/j...-used-n1017556

[pimpmaster9000]

Awkward...

[baddog]

So, what was that video that has been played on the news?

[Idigmygirls]

Originally Posted by baddog

So, what was that video that has been played on the news?

The video shows what appears to be an Iranian rescue vessel assisting a damaged tanker. Not sure why such assistance would be characterized as a smoking gun that Iran was involved, but just that alone makes the entire narrative suspect.

(As in, if the video showed an Iranian war ship placing mines, that would be a smoking gun. Video of an Iranian rescue vessel helping a damaged tanker after the attack being characterized as evidence of Iran's involvement in the attack demonstrates at best that the USA jumped to conclusions based on no evidence, and at worst is the USA trying to use anything they can as propaganda to prepare the citizenry for a war. By itself, I believe the video and its characterization speak more about the US stance and desire for war than any other evidence so far).

**Side note** It will be interesting (many years from now) when the evidence comes out that this was an attack by one of the US allies (Isreal most likely, Saudi Arabia second most likely) designed to trigger the war that these allies want so badly. Will the US then regard the offending country as an enemy? Don't hold your breath.

[RedFred]

Originally Posted by baddog

So, what was that video that has been played on the news?

You mean that grainy video that looks like it was made in 1950?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by baddog

So, what was that video that has been played on the news?

Who the fuck knows what was in the video.

There is too many unanswered questions. Is this an Iranian ship removing a mine? Is this an Iranian ship rescuing people from a damaged ship? (We know the Iranians rescued some people from one of the ships.) Is this even an Iranian ship? We know a Dutch ship was operating in the area and also rescued people from a ship. Why would the Iranian Navy attach a mine to a ship to damage it when they can launch a torpedo and never been seen? Why would they go back to the scene of the crime to remove a mine? Why is the owner of the tanker saying they were attacked by a torpedo?

I understand this is an unfolding situation and there are a lot of moving pieces here. But none of this adds up at any level.

At the same time, the Trump administration has been looking to start something with Iran. The Trump administration is failing at all levels in all all areas. Trump's approval record has sucked since shortly after getting into office. He is beating beat in the polls by nearly all Democratic candidates. Trump needs a distraction.

Combined with the fact that we cannot trust anyone in the Trump administration at all.... Fuck it.

Why do we even fucking care? The United States it the largest producer of oil in the world. If the entire Persian Gulf gets shut down.... The United States stands to gain.

[crockett]

1st off I think 100% that Bolton and the warhawks are trying like hell to start a war..


On flip side I'm not 100% that Trump wants it. However Trump is weak minded and will eventually go along..


As for the "mines" this attack can very much be mines. Modern mines are not like the big steal balls with spikes that we saw in the WW2 movies. They don't have to be under the water line because they are essentially a magnetic explosive device.

You can clearly see in that video that the boat comes up and pulls a magnetic device off the side of the ship. My bet is they are some sort of cannon launched "sticky mines". I say stick like in saving Private Ryan as the idea is the same.

I think they shot these at the ship and they attach to the ship hull then blow up, meaning they likely don't detonate on impact but are triggered remotely.

What the US is calling a "Lambert mine" is simply a type of device. Usually they are hand carried to a ship hull and attach magnetically then explode via a timer or remotely.

People getting caught up on the word "mine" are not realizing what is meant by it. They are thinking old school WW2 shit but that's not what the military is talking about.. A Lambert mine can very much be attached to the side of a ship and blown up.. it's simply a smaller explosive device that can be attached to a ship hull, usually by a diver but in this case perhaps launched by a cannon or maybe even piloted in by drone.


I'm still up in the air on who is doing it. I don't think Iran is this dumb but hey maybe they are. If I were a betting man I'd blame Russia. Russia has a lot to gain by getting the US tied up in a war with Iran. My question is where did that boat go after it pulled the device off the ship. Clearly they must of tracked it..

Russia gets to stir up shit then supply Iran with weapons.. My thoughts is it's 50/50 Iran or Russia doing it. The war in Syria has wound down and Russia wants a excuse to keep their troops in the ME now..

[crockett]

Originally Posted by RedFred

You mean that grainy video that looks like it was made in 1950?

I think it's either a low light situation or very far distance.

[crockett]

Seems it was a drone taking the video and there were 2 Iranian boats like this. They fired a shoulder launched missile at the US drone and missed prior to the ships being attacked. It also says the same Iranian boats are trying to stop tug boats from moving the ships..

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/14/polit...ats/index.html


In the hours before the attack on the two tankers in the Gulf of Oman on Thursday, the Iranians spotted a US drone flying overhead and launched a surface-to-air missile at the unmanned aircraft, a US official told CNN.

The missile missed the drone and fell into the water, the official said.
Prior to taking fire, the American MQ-9 drone observed Iranian vessels closing in on the tankers, the official added, though the source did not say whether the unmanned aircraft saw the boats conducting an actual attack.

Still, it is the first claim that the US has information of Iranian movements prior to the attack.

The same official also said in the days prior to the attack, a US reaper drone was shot down in the Red Sea by what is believed to be an Iranian missile fired by Houthi rebels.
The Pentagon had tough words for Iran on Friday as the US continues to assert its claim that Tehran was responsible for the attack on the two oil tankers in international waters after releasing video footage its says shows an Iranian patrol boat removing an unexploded mine from one of the vessels' hulls.

"We're making sure that General McKenzie and the central command has the resources and the support that they need to conduct their missions," acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan said, adding that the US continues to work on building an international consensus that Iran was behind the attack.

The United Kingdom released a statement Friday saying it is "almost certain" that a branch of the Iranian military -- the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) -- attacked two tankers.

The IRGC is an elite wing of the Iranian military that was established in the aftermath of the country's revolution in 1979. In April 2019, the US officially designated it as a foreign terrorist organization, a move which was rejected by authorities in Tehran.
No other state or non-state actor "could plausibly have been responsible," the statement added.

But Iran does not appear to be backing off and continues to engage in provocative behavior, according to a US official who told CNN on Friday that Iranian small boats are preventing tug boats from towing away one of the damaged tankers.

President Donald Trump seems convinced that Tehran was responsible.
"Iran did do it and you know they did it because you saw the boat," he said, appearing to refer to the images and video released by the Pentagon late Thursday.


In the video, a smaller boat is shown coming up to the side of the Japanese-owned tanker. An individual stands up on the bow of the boat and can be seen removing an object from the tanker's hull. The US says that object is likely an unexploded mine.

[crockett]

After lots of google searching..









Boats seem similar but not identical but Iran has a lot of different ones. Every other navy's small unit boats I looked up boats are clearly different than the Iranian ones. Iran is the only ones with that low bow. Still not the same model but very close, a few other Iranian boats have that low front as well.

The trick is to find the boat with that very distinctive front section of the grainy pictures and the solo center console. I can't find any that match that exact look for any Navy.

[King Mark]

We got our asses handed to us in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's start shit with a much more powerful nation with nukes now. Saudi Arabia has our back... as witnessed on 9-11-01.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by baddog

So, what was that video that has been played on the news?

I remember videos & photos shown by Colin Powell....

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Dead Eye

We got our asses handed to us in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's start shit with a much more powerful nation with nukes now. Saudi Arabia has our back... as witnessed on 9-11-01.

We didn't really get asses handed to us we simply were fighting a never ending war against insurgents. We took all the land positions we went after but they simply ran into Pakistan or retreated then come back soon as you leave the area..

[King Mark]

^I was there. Twice. We got our asses kicked.

...over some fake shit. And it seems like it's about to happen again, but worse, if trump gets his way.

[Smack dat]

Originally Posted by Rochard

At the same time, the Trump administration has been looking to start something with Iran. The Trump administration is failing at all levels in all all areas. Trump's approval record has sucked since shortly after getting into office. He is beating beat in the polls by nearly all Democratic candidates. Trump needs a distraction.

Trumps approval rating is at an all time high. Lower unemployment, higher wages and the best stock markets on record speak for themselves.

[Smack dat]

Yutaka Katada is clearly guessing. He said, and I quote (rather than paraphrase like NBC did)

"Because of that there is no doubt that it wasn't a torpedo"

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Who the fuck knows what was in the video.

There is no one on this board that figured you had a clue. Don't worry, I wasn't asking you.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Dead Eye

We got our asses handed to us in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's start shit with a much more powerful nation with nukes now. Saudi Arabia has our back... as witnessed on 9-11-01.

You couldn't be further from the truth.

In both cases the civilian governments was quickly removed from power and their military forces destroyed.

In Afghanistan a small amount of troops quickly overpowered the Taliban. It wasn't much of a fight.

In the case of Iraq the battle was over with the first strike. It's amazing really. The first strike against Iraq took out their communications hub. The government could't talk to the military and the military couldn't talk to individuals units. The Iraqi military fell apart so quickly that we had to stop to let supplies catch up for the fighting forces.

In both cases military objectives were quickly reached, governments were removed, and military forces were unable to fight. However, what we have now is not a war, it's small groups of fighting forces who refuse to give up and staging a small scale guerrilla war. It's hardly effective; The amount of casualties they are inflicting are very small.

Now back to Iran.... Do the math. Iraq and Iran were in a war for over a decade where no one won. The United States destroyed Iraq in a matter of weeks. The Iranian military would be quickly destroyed. With that said, take a look at a map... Iran is right smack in-between Iraq and Afghanistan. We already have bases and military forces there.

We would destroy Iran from the air before they know what hit them.

[King Mark]

Taliban still runs shit. We hanged what's his face, and did whatever to bin laden... yeah, but we didnt win shit. Obviously.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Dead Eye

Taliban still runs shit. We hanged what's his face, and did whatever to bin laden... yeah, but we didnt win shit. Obviously.

We didn't hang Saddam.. His own people did. Yes we caught him, but we then turned him over the the new govt and they opted to hang him.

[Bladewire]

Trump tweeted in 2011 , multiple times, that he thought Obama would start a war with Iran to get reelected. So we know exactly what Trump is doing; starting a war with Iran to get re-elected.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Dead Eye

Taliban still runs shit. We hanged what's his face, and did whatever to bin laden... yeah, but we didnt win shit. Obviously.

Sure sure, they "run shit". So far this month we had no deaths in Afghanistan. The month before we had one, but that was an accident and not because of hostile fire. The month before that we lost two in a bombing.

That's not a war or a battle. That's a bombing.

[Idigmygirls]

Originally Posted by Rochard

...

Now back to Iran.... Do the math. Iraq and Iran were in a war for over a decade where no one won. The United States destroyed Iraq in a matter of weeks. The Iranian military would be quickly destroyed. With that said, take a look at a map... Iran is right smack in-between Iraq and Afghanistan. We already have bases and military forces there.

We would destroy Iran from the air before they know what hit them.

It would take pages to detail the issues with this claim, and I don't feel like getting into a huge debate tonight; but I do want to hit some highlights:

1) What country would the US stage its troops for a war with Iran? Look at the map. Unlike Iraq, Iran is not accessible to US ground forces or short-range air forces.

2) Iran has been preparing to repel a US attack that they have believed would be forthcoming for more than 15 years. They have extensive networks of mobile ballistic missiles of all ranges, extensive dug-in defensive positions and the most advanced military in the region (bar Israel).

3) I've read reports (not going to source this right now) that Iran has in excess of 150,000 missiles. They have massive air defences. They have MOABs.

4) They have invested heavily in military. The Iran-Iraq war took place beginning in 1980. That's 40 years ago. Iran's military is completely and utterly different than it was back then. It is an advanced and modern military that would also have been capable of destroying Iraq by air in a few weeks.

5) Iran has "home-field" advantage. The US would be operating a remote war, while also needing to defend against China and Russia on separate fields (Ukraine and Taiwan); and against N. Korea and pressuring Venezuela; and defending troops in Syria and Iraq. This is a very multi-front war. Iran could create chaos from Lebanon, Syria, Iran and Iraq.

6) Iran does not need to defeat the US military. It can defeat the US by blowing up oil production in Saudi Arabia or by blocking the Straight of Hormuz.

These facts create such problems for the US, that trying to compare victory against Iran with the military defeat of Iraq is pointless. Iran is a much more powerful and potent potential adversary, and it is hubris to believe that they can be defeated without devastating consequences for the USA.

[King Mark]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Sure sure, they "run shit". So far this month we had no deaths in Afghanistan. The month before we had one, but that was an accident and not because of hostile fire. The month before that we lost two in a bombing.

That's not a war or a battle. That's a bombing.

Bro. We went to Afghanistan to defeat the Taliban. Trump giving them their shit back lol.

You have no idea wtf is really going on.

[BaldBastard]

Originally Posted by Dead Eye

Bro. We went to Afghanistan to defeat the Taliban. Trump giving them their shit back lol.

You have no idea wtf is really going on.

Afghanistan releases hundreds of Taliban prisoners without conditions.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/afghan...iban-prisoners

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

It would take pages to detail the issues with this claim, and I don't feel like getting into a huge debate tonight; but I do want to hit some highlights:

Great - someone who can actually discuss things rationally on GFY. (No kidding.)

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

1) What country would the US stage its troops for a war with Iran? Look at the map. Unlike Iraq, Iran is not accessible to US ground forces or short-range air forces.

We already have forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. We already have bases there. We would just need to expand them.

From a military standpoint.... This is IDEAL.

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

2) Iran has been preparing to repel a US attack that they have believed would be forthcoming for more than 15 years. They have extensive networks of mobile ballistic missiles of all ranges, extensive dug-in defensive positions and the most advanced military in the region (bar Israel).

Sure sure. No, not really. The Iranian government is not fully in control of it's own military. They have some military forces that do not report to the government itself, and operate completely independent of the government.

The Iranian military is ranked 14 by Global Firepower's 2019 Military Strength Ranking system. This means Brazil has a better / stronger military.

Their air force is horrible. Their best fighters are 33 F14 Tomcats and 25 MiG 29s.... Their "very best" technology in their air force is from the early 1970s....

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

3) I've read reports (not going to source this right now) that Iran has in excess of 150,000 missiles. They have massive air defences. They have MOABs.

Sure sure. They use the "transporter erector launcher" common in the Middle East; Iraq used them too. Truthfully, these were hard to locate and hard to target in Iraq. However, they were completely ineffective. They have limited range, do not do much damage, and very inaccurate.

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

4) They have invested heavily in military. The Iran-Iraq war took place beginning in 1980. That's 40 years ago. Iran's military is completely and utterly different than it was back then. It is an advanced and modern military that would also have been capable of destroying Iraq by air in a few weeks.

Actually, their military hasn't changed much in the past years.

I cannot stress enough that a Middle Eastern country such as Iran going up against a large, modern and highly sophisticated military force such as the United States, Russia, or China would not be much of a fight. Trust me when I tell you the United States has already penetrated Iran's communication infrastructure; We already saw what Israel did to their nuclear program years ago. On day before the first shot is fired their communications network would go down nationwide and they would be unable to communicate at any level.

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

5) Iran has "home-field" advantage. The US would be operating a remote war, while also needing to defend against China and Russia on separate fields (Ukraine and Taiwan); and against N. Korea and pressuring Venezuela; and defending troops in Syria and Iraq. This is a very multi-front war. Iran could create chaos from Lebanon, Syria, Iran and Iraq.

This is very true. However, the United States is very good at fighting wars in foreign countries. We did it in Iraq and Afghanistan and we were very effective at it.

The United States is very capable of fighting a remote war while also defending other interests such as South Korea, China, and Ukraine, etc. We've been doing it for twenty years now.

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

6) Iran does not need to defeat the US military. It can defeat the US by blowing up oil production in Saudi Arabia or by blocking the Straight of Hormuz.

Iran would never really be able to strike back at the United States. This is what makes the United States military special - we have the ability to strike at other countries almost immediately, and other countries do not have the ability to strike back. There are of course exceptions to this. Russia and China would have the ability to strike back, but do they really? For example... If the United States wanted to strike China with airplanes or naval ships, they could do it and do it quickly.... But could China do the same? Could China send fighter planes over the east coast or west coast of the United States? No, they cannot. They also do not have a blue water navy. Russia is a little bit different - They could try to reach the US mainland. They could attack Alaska. But again, no blue water navy.

Oil... Fuck oil. Oil prices have always been set by the Middle East. Let's shut down the entire Persian Gulf. I am so not kidding here. The United States is now the largest producer of oil. We could shut down oil production for all of the middle east and let's see who is going to suffer more - the United States with it's unlimited flow of oil or the Middle East who is unable to meet demand for their own needs no less exports.

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

These facts create such problems for the US, that trying to compare victory against Iran with the military defeat of Iraq is pointless. Iran is a much more powerful and potent potential adversary, and it is hubris to believe that they can be defeated without devastating consequences for the USA.

We had the same exact discussions and debate when we went to war with Iraq - twice. Their military isn't powerful or even an adversary. Iraq, by the way, when we went to war with them, was ranked 4th most powerful in the world.

I cannot stress the difference between the most powerful military in the world vs the 14th most powerful nation. It's like sending a Yugo up against a Ferrari.

I disagree with you.

[pimpmaster9000]

the US army never wins...I mean sure, you defeat the force drafted civilians that did not want to fight you in the first place, but the US army never wins...

what americans fail to understand is that we will never ever do as you say...because you are a fucking joke

go ahead and bankrupt yourselves even more, waste another 2-3 trillion failing in iran, keep telling yourselves the debt will not come due

"thank you for your service"

[directfiesta]

Amazing how americans love war, mainly against vulnerable ones...
The bully position....

[VRPdommy]

Originally Posted by crockett

1st off I think 100% that Bolton and the warhawks are trying like hell to start a war..


On flip side I'm not 100% that Trump wants it. However Trump is weak minded and will eventually go along..


As for the "mines" this attack can very much be mines. Modern mines are not like the big steal balls with spikes that we saw in the WW2 movies. They don't have to be under the water line because they are essentially a magnetic explosive device.

You can clearly see in that video that the boat comes up and pulls a magnetic device off the side of the ship. My bet is they are some sort of cannon launched "sticky mines". I say stick like in saving Private Ryan as the idea is the same.

I think they shot these at the ship and they attach to the ship hull then blow up, meaning they likely don't detonate on impact but are triggered remotely.

What the US is calling a "Lambert mine" is simply a type of device. Usually they are hand carried to a ship hull and attach magnetically then explode via a timer or remotely.

People getting caught up on the word "mine" are not realizing what is meant by it. They are thinking old school WW2 shit but that's not what the military is talking about.. A Lambert mine can very much be attached to the side of a ship and blown up.. it's simply a smaller explosive device that can be attached to a ship hull, usually by a diver but in this case perhaps launched by a cannon or maybe even piloted in by drone.


I'm still up in the air on who is doing it. I don't think Iran is this dumb but hey maybe they are. If I were a betting man I'd blame Russia. Russia has a lot to gain by getting the US tied up in a war with Iran. My question is where did that boat go after it pulled the device off the ship. Clearly they must of tracked it..

Russia gets to stir up shit then supply Iran with weapons.. My thoughts is it's 50/50 Iran or Russia doing it. The war in Syria has wound down and Russia wants a excuse to keep their troops in the ME now..

I would agree with most of that.

Either way, when you place so many assets in a small space, there is likelihood of simple accidents turning very bad very quick. And nobody will look back to verify.
They want this and eventually will have it.
Watch as they move even more assets in.

I do believe Russia has a play in all of this. As a instigator. They seem to be playing all sides behind the scenes but all in their own interest in the end. I see the same in NK.

On the other side of things, Russia is breaking from the '+' in OPEC+ trying to muster up more market share of the oil market. So they have played the Saudi's well too.
The overall oil market is down in consumption (Chinese trade war) and no hope of demand kicking up soon at the same time as production is up so as prices dwindle, and we have a potential war in the gulf involving 20% of oil shipping.

Very interesting.

[Acepimp]

You guys and your ridiculous conspiracy theories

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

the US army never wins...I mean sure, you defeat the force drafted civilians that did not want to fight you in the first place, but the US army never wins...

what americans fail to understand is that we will never ever do as you say...because you are a fucking joke

go ahead and bankrupt yourselves even more, waste another 2-3 trillion failing in iran, keep telling yourselves the debt will not come due

"thank you for your service"

I disagree with this.

These nations can never fight the United States military on the battlefield. They only thing they can do is fight Guerrilla warfare style, which still doesn't win. Take a look at the United States military history for the past forty years...

Vietnam - We never lost a single battle. We didn't "lose" Vietnam, but pulled out because of political reasons. There wasn't enough public support.

Iraq - Removed their government from power and destroyed their military. In 2019 there was one attack on US forces, a bombing, that resulted in three American KIAs.

Afghanistan - Removed their government from power and destroyed their little military. Again, this year there was one attack that resulted in three American KIAs.

With Iraq and Afghanistan we tend to call this a "war" but it's really not.... It's an occupation (if that). One bomb attack in six months is not a war but instead a single terrorist attack.

We would have beat Vietnam too if our politicians allowed the military to do it's job. The politicians refused to allow our military to attack Northern Vietnam and the surrounding countries. The final battle of Vietnam, the Tet Offensive, was a massive surprise attack that ended in complete failure.

The advances in technology since these wars have been fought have increased greatly, giving the United States yet even a bigger advantage.

[celandina]

Originally Posted by Dead Eye

We got our asses handed to us in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's start shit with a much more powerful nation with nukes now. Saudi Arabia has our back... as witnessed on 9-11-01.

" Five star" reply

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by baddog

There is no one on this board that figured you had a clue. Don't worry, I wasn't asking you.

Rochard is smarter than you.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by baddog

There is no one on this board that figured you had a clue. Don't worry, I wasn't asking you.

Oh I missed this.

Do you even work in the industry any more?

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I disagree with this.

These nations can never fight the United States military on the battlefield. They only thing they can do is fight Guerrilla warfare style, which still doesn't win. Take a look at the United States military history for the past forty years...

Vietnam - We never lost a single battle. We didn't "lose" Vietnam, but pulled out because of political reasons. There wasn't enough public support.

Iraq - Removed their government from power and destroyed their military. In 2019 there was one attack on US forces, a bombing, that resulted in three American KIAs.

Afghanistan - Removed their government from power and destroyed their little military. Again, this year there was one attack that resulted in three American KIAs.

With Iraq and Afghanistan we tend to call this a "war" but it's really not.... It's an occupation (if that). One bomb attack in six months is not a war but instead a single terrorist attack.

We would have beat Vietnam too if our politicians allowed the military to do it's job. The politicians refused to allow our military to attack Northern Vietnam and the surrounding countries. The final battle of Vietnam, the Tet Offensive, was a massive surprise attack that ended in complete failure.

The advances in technology since these wars have been fought have increased greatly, giving the United States yet even a bigger advantage.

Yes guerilla warfare is the way to go against invaders...never play the invaders rigged game...then when the invasion gets expensive the invaders go home and we go right back to doing as we wish...fuck the USA...

Not for one second do we ever consider doing anything invaders want...it is just a pause in guerilla warfare until we figure out new ways to fight back...this is the full extent of your victory: we pause to think of a new way to hurt you...this is why you will never win...

[VRPdommy]

UK joins US and seeks others. Germany says not enough evidence for a link to Iran.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-attacks-us-uk

(the german's are not likely to follow us blindly again and I'm surprised the UK did)

[TheSquealer]

Nice to see Leftists rush to the defense of the worlds largest state sponsor of terror with imagined conspiracy theories.... cause.... "hate Trump". You're nothing it not consistent.

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

the worlds largest state sponsor of terror

^^^ the USA...worlds #1 threat to peace...good ol arms lobby...always must have enemies...

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

Yes guerilla warfare is the way to go against invaders...never play the invaders rigged game...then when the invasion gets expensive the invaders go home and we go right back to doing as we wish...fuck the USA...

Not for one second do we ever consider doing anything invaders want...it is just a pause in guerilla warfare until we figure out new ways to fight back...this is the full extent of your victory: we pause to think of a new way to hurt you...this is why you will never win...

You can argue it worked in Vietnam, but mostly because the United States public failed to support the war both originally and in the long term. If the public had supported the war it would have had a completely different outcome.

They tried this tactic in Iraq and it failed. It worked a little better in Afghanistan but still eventually failed.

The reality is even with guerilla warfare the larger, stronger power will win. The larger country has the ability to stay in a foreign country for ever and suffer the damage, while the guerilla force eventually loses support. The longer the guerilla force fights, the longer the invaders remain and the more damage is done. The quickest way for a guerilla force to get an invading army to leave is by... Not fighting.

[RedFred]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Nice to see Leftists rush to the defense of the worlds largest state sponsor of terror with imagined conspiracy theories.... cause.... "hate Trump". You're nothing it not consistent.

^^ Still thinks Iraq had WMD's.

[pimpmaster9000]

Originally Posted by Rochard

You can argue it worked in Vietnam, but mostly because the United States public failed to support the war both originally and in the long term. If the public had supported the war it would have had a completely different outcome.

They tried this tactic in Iraq and it failed. It worked a little better in Afghanistan but still eventually failed.

The reality is even with guerilla warfare the larger, stronger power will win. The larger country has the ability to stay in a foreign country for ever and suffer the damage, while the guerilla force eventually loses support. The longer the guerilla force fights, the longer the invaders remain and the more damage is done. The quickest way for a guerilla force to get an invading army to leave is by... Not fighting.

you did not win in iraq and avghanistan...they absolutely hate your guts...if anything, things are now much worse than before...and it cost you trillions...thats no victory at all...you only made the people dressed in scam uniforms surrender...you have more enemies now than ever in history...

[VRPdommy]

This is interesting and I wonder if it is related...

US ramping up cyber attacks on Russia (without trumps knowledge)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/15/polit...sia/index.html

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crucifissio

you did not win in iraq and avghanistan...they absolutely hate your guts...if anything, things are now much worse than before...and it cost you trillions...thats no victory at all...you only made the people dressed in scam uniforms surrender...you have more enemies now than ever in history...

I never said they liked us.

We removed their government from power and defeated their military. At this point they are no longer a military force, but a small terrorist group only capable of a single bombing once every three or four months.

In both cases this was a complete victory for the United States. Are we still in Iraq? Yep. Are we still in Afghanistan? Yep. We are also in Japan and Germany as well. Italy too.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

Nice to see Leftists rush to the defense of the worlds largest state sponsor of terror with imagined conspiracy theories.... cause.... "hate Trump". You're nothing it not consistent.

Why not stop being a dumbass for 5 minutes. I don't see anyone rushing to defend Iran. Clearly there was a attack but so far the US military hasn't supplied us with actual proof it was Iran. They claim it's Iran but they certainly have not proven that it was.

There are a lot of actors who could have attacked those tankers.. There is obviously Iran, then there is Russia, then there is the Saudis who maybe want to try and push us into a war with Iran. Same with Israel.. for the same reasons. ISIS or someone like them probably could have the capability.

Then there is the other option.. what if it was warhawks with in the US who are trying to push us into war with Iran? How do we know there wasn't a black op by a contractor such as Academi with rouge elements like Bolton in our govt who clearly want a war with Iran..


The simple fact is the US govt has not proven the case that Iran is behind the attacks. I will admit there is extremely high percentage chance that they are but as Bush said...

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”


Bush & Cheney never fooled me because I asked these same kind of questions before Iraq.. I saw then it was a lie before the 1st bomb dropped..

I will most certainly will not simply believe Trump or Bolton because "they say so"..


It's very simple.. if the same boats shot shoulder fired missiles at our drone before they attacked the ship, then show us the footage.. Show us the surveillance footage of this boat before and after the attack..


Don't be a fool for 5 minutes of your life.. act like an adult just once..

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crockett

Why not stop being a dumbass for 5 minutes. I don't see anyone rushing to defend Iran. Clearly there was a attack but so far the US military hasn't supplied us with actual proof it was Iran. They claim it's Iran but they certainly have not proven that it was.

There are a lot of actors who could have attacked those tankers.. There is obviously Iran, then there is Russia, then there is the Saudis who maybe want to try and push us into a war with Iran. Same with Israel.. for the same reasons. ISIS or someone like them probably could have the capability.

Then there is the other option.. what if it was warhawks with in the US who are trying to push us into war with Iran? How do we know there wasn't a black op by a contractor such as Academi with rouge elements like Bolton in our govt who clearly want a war with Iran..


The simple fact is the US govt has not proven the case that Iran is behind the attacks. I will admit there is extremely high percentage chance that they are but as Bush said...

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”


Bush & Cheney never fooled me because I asked these same kind of questions before Iraq.. I saw then it was a lie before the 1st bomb dropped..

I will most certainly will not simply believe Trump or Bolton because "they say so"..


It's very simple.. if the same boats shot shoulder fired missiles at our drone before they attacked the ship, then show us the footage.. Show us the surveillance footage of this boat before and after the attack..


Don't be a fool for 5 minutes of your life.. act like an adult just once..

The problem is there is zero trust in the Trump administration to tell the truth.

This is exactly what Democrats have been trying to explain to Republicans. Everything coming out of the Trump White House is a lie at this point. Every single thing. The latest lie was about a "Secret agreement with Mexico" which is nothing more than an agreement to have "more talks". We tried to explain the Trump White House has ZERO credibility. None at all. Zero.

Sure does look at like Iranians. Then again, this is in the Persian Gulf so they all look Middle Eastern and they all have the same kinds of boats.

We've been here before with Republicans in the White House telling us we need to go war only to find out everything was a complete lie.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Rochard

The problem is there is zero trust in the Trump administration to tell the truth.

This is exactly what Democrats have been trying to explain to Republicans. Everything coming out of the Trump White House is a lie at this point. Every single thing. The latest lie was about a "Secret agreement with Mexico" which is nothing more than an agreement to have "more talks". We tried to explain the Trump White House has ZERO credibility. None at all. Zero.

Sure does look at like Iranians. Then again, this is in the Persian Gulf so they all look Middle Eastern and they all have the same kinds of boats.

We've been here before with Republicans in the White House telling us we need to go war only to find out everything was a complete lie.

Yes and because Bush/Cheney lied to take us into Iraq and because Trump lies daily they have made this country less secure because no one, not even our allies believe us anymore.

Republicans are 100% to blame for this. Can't blame Obama, can't blame Hillary.. Bush lied to take us into Iraq and Trump hasn't made it a day in office with out lying about something.

THIS is why lying matters.. Because maybe it was Iran.. but Iran knows no one will believe a word out of Trump's mouth so they have impunity.. We now have to prove with out doubt 100% that Iran did it because NO ONE believes a word that comes out of Trump's fat ass mouth. Due to this Trump has put our country at risk..


Idiots like Baddog, onehunglo and squealer can not grasp something this fucking simple. The story of the "sky is falling"...

[pimpmaster9000]

UH OH! honest mc honest face prince bone saw of saudi arabia just accused iran of the attacks!!!!!! oh nooooooooooooo! bone saw is such a credible and honest figure!!!...oh shit iran is in some deep shit now...*bone saw noises* "iran did it!" *bone saw noises*...

list of honest entities accusing iran now:

1) honest honest "iraq has WMD" US government
2) bone saw

[VRPdommy]

I find the likely-hood of the Saudi's involvement here to help push for action that they want to see. No other single player has that level of interest to incite the progression.

And while we know there are much more effective methods that could have been used here by any nation in the area, this one makes it hard to 'PROVE' anything.

The only thing we should be advocating is no escalations of involvement at this point. That seems to be what they want, so deny them of it.

But, I can see this tit for tat escalation is well on it's way. What will be done next to seemingly justify our next step.... ...you know it's coming.

[Tasty1]

The dutch ship that took the people on board said that the crew of the attacked ship said there was something suspicious attached to the hull of the ship.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2288909-neder...-van-oman.html

At this moment it could be anyone. So many people want things to escalate to get their goals.
It could be green terrorist. The oil prices went up and that might save the planet for being 0,00001 degrees celcius less high in 100 years.

[crockett]

So now neither Germany or Japan believe the Trump admin..

https://japantoday.com/category/nati...tacked-tankers


See Red Hats this is what you've done to this country. Two of our best allies no longer believe the WH because the WH under the last 2 Republican administrations has consistently lied to them.

This is why telling the truth matters. Trump has now put this country in danger because of his constant lying..