The difference between what freedom means between left and right.

[crockett]

With the left, freedom means quite simply that everyone should be free to live their life how they see fit so long as it doesn't negatively affect others.

When the right talks about freedom, what they mean is they want the freedom to oppress other groups of people that are not like them.






Prove me wrong...

[Scott McD]

Zzzzzzzz....

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by crockett

With the left, freedom means quite simply that everyone should be free to live their life how they see fit so long as it doesn't negatively affect others.

When the right talks about freedom, what they mean is they want the freedom to oppress other groups of people that are not like them.






Prove me wrong...

That's perfect.

[2MuchMark]

Good question.

From a purely left and optimistic point of view, I would say that both left and right want the same things at its core, that is "everyone should be free to live their life how they see fit so long as it doesn't negatively affect others."

If this is true, then maybe the left and right have different approaches to this. For example, Guns. Lefties want fewer guns so less people die. Righties want more guns, because, freedom to own guns.

The issue is more complicated than this though because again from the point of view on the left, righties appear brainwashed. Of course the same is true of the left from a righties point of view.

What I would love to do one day is sit down face to face with a righties (Hi Robbie!) and make a point-by-point list on paper, of everything that we both value, and that we both agree should be valued. I bet that in the end we both value exactly the same things, like:

- Clean Air? Check.
- Clean Water? Check.
- Canadian Triangle player jamming in Vegas with Rockstar Robbie one day? Check...

[crockett]

Originally Posted by 2MuchMark

Good question.

From a purely left and optimistic point of view, I would say that both left and right want the same things at its core, that is "everyone should be free to live their life how they see fit so long as it doesn't negatively affect others."

If this is true, then maybe the left and right have different approaches to this. For example, Guns. Lefties want fewer guns so less people die. Righties want more guns, because, freedom to own guns.

The issue is more complicated than this though because again from the point of view on the left, righties appear brainwashed. Of course the same is true of the left from a righties point of view.

What I would love to do one day is sit down face to face with a righties (Hi Robbie!) and make a point-by-point list on paper, of everything that we both value, and that we both agree should be valued. I bet that in the end we both value exactly the same things, like:

- Clean Air? Check.
- Clean Water? Check.
- Canadian Triangle player jamming in Vegas with Rockstar Robbie one day? Check...

But it's not true.. The Right might say they want freedom for everyone but that is not their actions.. They want to oppress gay people, they want to oppress Muslims, they want to oppress minorities.. they want to oppress democrat voters. The list can go on and on..

You see this by countless attempts at legislation focused on oppressing people they are targeting. The left quite simply doesn't do this. The left instead fights against this.

The right then claims they are being oppressed because the left doesn't allow them to oppress others. If you look at the right wing core complaints it's all about oppressing others. They can give lip service all day long but the truth of the matter is you want to be able top tell other people what to do.. They want to oppress people's views they do not agree with.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Scott McD

Zzzzzzzz....

Guess that means you can't prove me wrong... noted

[Sarn]

>Prove me wrong...
join communism

[Scott McD]

Originally Posted by crockett

Guess that means you can't prove me wrong... noted

Yes you win the prize.

Congrat's to the winners !!

[OneHungLo]

Originally Posted by crockett

But it's not true.. The Right might say they want freedom for everyone but that is not their actions.. They want to oppress gay people

No they don't. We don't want kids being taught by drag queens. We don't want 8 yr old boys being pumped full of hormones because they picked a flower. We don't want 97 genders. We don't want kids prancing around in high heels in gay clubs @ 2am where grown adults are throwing money at them.

Originally Posted by crockett

they want to oppress Muslims..

Islam is incompatible with our Western values and constitution. You want them here? Look at what happens to women and gays when they are the majority. They need to be oppressed till they bounce the fuck out of here. You can't be for women and gays and be for muslims. You need to pick a side.

Originally Posted by crockett

they want to oppress minorities..

We're doing a terrible job since the top 3 earners in America are Indian Americans, Chinese Americans and Taiwanese Americans. Oh those people don't count as minorities? Maybe the minorities you're referring to are oppressing themselves with shit culture that promotes criminality.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

No they don't. We don't want kids being taught by drag queens. We don't want 8 yr old boys being pumped full of hormones because they picked a flower. We don't want 97 genders. We don't want kids prancing around in high heels in gay clubs @ 2am where grown adults are throwing money at them.

So what you are saying is you want to tell people how to live their life, because you don't like something. You prove my point..

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

Islam is incompatible with our Western values and constitution. You want them here? Look at what happens to women and gays when they are the majority. They need to be oppressed till they bounce the fuck out of here. You can't be for women and gays and be for muslims. You need to pick a side.

There are many Muslims living in the US who commit no crimes. There any many Christians living in the US who commit no crimes. Meanwhile in both groups there are radicals who do commit crimes.. You are trying to oppress one group you don't like while excusing away the other group you do like. Once again you prove my point..

Originally Posted by OneHungLo

We're doing a terrible job since the top 3 earners in America are Indian Americans, Chinese Americans and Taiwanese Americans. Oh those people don't count as minorities? Maybe the minorities you're referring to are oppressing themselves with shit culture that promotes criminality.

Again you have selective hate based on specific groups you disagree with. You lump them all into the same as reason to excuse your hate of the entire group. By your standards we should ban Christians because countless Christian priests and preachers have molested kids. Again you prove my point that the Right wing view of freedom is "freedom to oppress" people you do not like.


Every single one of your arguments was a excuse for you to make up a reason to oppress people you do not like. You have validated my opening statement.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Sarn

>Prove me wrong...
join communism

communism is a failed ideology just like trickle down economics. Capitalism is by far the most proven stable system but it has it's flaws, Pure capitalism would fail just like pure communism. (granted even the USSR could not reach pure communism because they were corrupt which is why the concept is failed) This is the same reason you can not have pure capitalism because it can become too corrupt.

You can not base everything on 1 single solution. You need a mix of concepts to have a working society that benefits all. A little bit of socialism, a little bit of conservatism and a whole lot of the middle. Too much of either end causes problems.

The problem we have in America today is the right wing has become a extremist movement which is unwilling to compromise and they want to oppress everything they don't like. They have decided to turn their backs on the founding principles of this country. They are in short turn coats. They are traitors to our Constitution, our laws our country, the very values of this country.

They are just like the Taliban, you give them a inch and they push for more.. Today it's the Black, Hispanics, Gays & the Muslims. Tomorrow it's Anyone not white enough and not Christian. Then it's you aren't Christian enough or you are the wrong branch of Christians not white enough.. ect..ect.. It never ends with these types of people because they have an absolute need to be offended by other's action and there fore grant themselves reason to oppress someone. The right wing is authoritarian by it's basic principle, they are the direct opposite of supporting personal freedom.

au·thor·i·tar·i·an
/əˌTHôrəˈterēən/
adjective
1.
favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

Radicals always become more radicalized as new wannabe leaders try to out due the current ones. Those then still in power inch their selves further to the extreme so they can fit in and the cultist follow suite.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by crockett

With the left, freedom means quite simply that everyone should be free to live their life how they see fit so long as it doesn't negatively affect others.

When the right talks about freedom, what they mean is they want the freedom to oppress other groups of people that are not like them.

Prove me wrong...

So easy.

At it's extreme the liberals want to impose their standards and culture on everyone, including you. Yo continually call Republicans names, like Nazis, child molesters, etc. Yes these Right Wingers who don't want their children taught be a man in drag, or children labelled before they're capable, etc have just as much right to make that decision.

Then comparing Christians to Muslims was your worse mistake. Islam is a religion that preached violence, Jesus said turn the other cheek. mo led armies and his followers have rarely been at peace ever since.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by crockett

So what you are saying is you want to tell people how to live their life, because you don't like something. You prove my point..

There are many Muslims living in the US who commit no crimes. There any many Christians living in the US who commit no crimes. Meanwhile in both groups there are radicals who do commit crimes.. You are trying to oppress one group you don't like while excusing away the other group you do like. Once again you prove my point..

Immigrants must add to the society they join is a positive economic way, immigrants don't.

Again you have selective hate based on specific groups you disagree with. You lump them all into the same as reason to excuse your hate of the entire group. By your standards we should ban Christians because countless Christian priests and preachers have molested kids. Again you prove my point that the Right wing view of freedom is "freedom to oppress" people you do not like.

Someone who constantly targets the Right, with screams on Nazi, etc.

You pot me kettle.

Every single one of your arguments was a excuse for you to make up a reason to oppress people you do not like. You have validated my opening statement.

No you have just buried yourself.

[pornmasta]

Originally Posted by crockett

With the left, freedom means quite simply that everyone should be free to live their life how they see fit so long as it doesn't negatively affect others.

When the right talks about freedom, what they mean is they want the freedom to oppress other groups of people that are not like them.

Are these people that want censorship, to be more inclusive, for freedom ?

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by crockett

communism is a failed ideology just like trickle down economics.
...

China №1 economy, ideology works.
but people under this ideology...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

Originally Posted by crockett

...
The problem we have in America today is the right wing has become a extremist movement which is unwilling to compromise and they want to oppress everything they don't like.
...

Reason of the radicalization?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Sarn

China №1 economy, ideology works.
but people under this ideology...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides


Reason of the radicalization?

Ummm no the US is still a bigger economy than China.. You could have to add China's and Russia's economy together and still not match match the US.


As for right wing's radicalization.. It's called brainwashing. They have had right wing radio hosts talking shit for years and years, then came fox news and they moved it to the TV. Reagan became popular with Republicans because he used to do paid recordings on fucking records back in the 60's.

The right wing has had for years political talking heads yapping in their ears telling them the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Reagan was yapping about socialist in the 60's..

Right wingers will sit there and watch Fox news all day long like it's fucking entertainment. If you watch them actually watching Fox News they look like brain dead zombies just staring at the TV being told what to think..


The left never had this sort of shit.. but the right wing became more radical and more radical then they went bat shit crazy after a black man was elected president.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So easy.

At it's extreme the liberals want to impose their standards and culture on everyone, including you. Yo continually call Republicans names, like Nazis, child molesters, etc. Yes these Right Wingers who don't want their children taught be a man in drag, or children labelled before they're capable, etc have just as much right to make that decision.

Then comparing Christians to Muslims was your worse mistake. Islam is a religion that preached violence, Jesus said turn the other cheek. mo led armies and his followers have rarely been at peace ever since.

Paul is crying non sense again...

[NewNick]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Immigrants must add to the society they join is a positive economic way, immigrants don't.



.

So sayeth the immigrant.

You are a fucking leech Markham. Sponging off the society to which you added zero.

You dont even attempt to learn the language.

How dare you pontificate about immigrants.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by crockett

Paul is crying non sense again...

Not an answer.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So easy.

At it's extreme the liberals want to impose their standards and culture on everyone, including you. Yo continually call Republicans names, like Nazis, child molesters, etc. Yes these Right Wingers who don't want their children taught be a man in drag, or children labelled before they're capable, etc have just as much right to make that decision.

Then comparing Christians to Muslims was your worse mistake. Islam is a religion that preached violence, Jesus said turn the other cheek. mo led armies and his followers have rarely been at peace ever since.

what you guys still not have realized is that "right wing" stands for conservative values.
so what do you think are the muslim values?

they are right wing - same as you - and when it comes to the point that the world is right wing you will see how far every single right winger´s view is from the other.

right wing conservative thinking has NEVER resolved a problem in human history. it CREATES the problems.

let´s take you as an example.
you know that 90% of all right wingers are climate change deniars, pro guns and pro war.
you do not deny climate change and you have a quite logic view on the gun problem.

now image what will happen when right wingers take over the planet.
WHAT will you be than when the "muslim problem" could be resolved through that ?

i tell you what will happen:

you will be again the one that complains that the world is completely wrong because you would not get what you want.

it is never easy to live with many people together. one important talent you need for it is to agree to compromises.
this is something what you guys have never learned. and you will also not learn it when you would ever get into power.
because you guys are egocentric - and this is the opposite of freedom and democracy.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by crockett

Ummm no the US is still a bigger economy than China.. You could have to add China's and Russia's economy together and still not match match the US.

China is poised to overtake the United States as the world's top economy as early as next year, according to a new report by the Standard Chartered Bank. ... India is also estimated to overtake the U.S. economy by 2030, largely thanks to rapid urbanization.

As for right wing's radicalization.. It's called brainwashing. They have had right wing radio hosts talking shit for years and years, then came fox news and they moved it to the TV. Reagan became popular with Republicans because he used to do paid recordings on fucking records back in the 60's.

The right wing has had for years political talking heads yapping in their ears telling them the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Reagan was yapping about socialist in the 60's..

Right wingers will sit there and watch Fox news all day long like it's fucking entertainment. If you watch them actually watching Fox News they look like brain dead zombies just staring at the TV being told what to think..

The left never had this sort of shit.. but the right wing became more radical and more radical then they went bat shit crazy after a black man was elected president.

The Left is just as guilty of brainwashing. You want illegals to be allowed to stay in the US, even though it's proven they cost far more than they bring. You rant on and on about how bad Trump is when for decades the US has been on a downward spiral no matter who is in power.

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by crockett

Ummm no the US is still a bigger economy than China.. You could have to add China's and Russia's economy together and still not match match the US.

Do you count nominal GDP? Then this is true, if not watch on prices by countries and national currency exchange rate.

Originally Posted by crockett

...
As for right wing's radicalization.. It's called brainwashing.
Right wingers will sit there and watch Fox news all day long like it's fucking entertainment. If you watch them actually watching Fox News they look like brain dead zombies just staring at the TV being told what to think
...

And what you offer for fix it?

[Sarn]

Originally Posted by thommy

...
so what do you think are the muslim values?
...

Islam, it is left ideology))

[Paul Markham]

The deterioration of the West has been slow and steady over the last 50 years. Due to policies of both sides.

The industrialisation of the 3rd world has led to the 1st losing too much of it's industrial power and customers, we have in fact turned into a consumer of goods rather than a producer.

The belief that the 1st should accept millions of 3rd world immigrants has also led to the loss of balance between takers and contributors to the system. Add on top of that our own home grown low paid and unemployed who only take out of the system and the effect is obvious.

The reason for this is the price of goods. As Rochard complained things cost more. Yes saving the West from eventual decline will cost more, if you're not prepared to pay more then watch your country sink. Low wage immigrants have slashed the market for home grown labour, yes you get the temporary benefit of low cost labour. But you have to pay more taxes to pay for the out of work and low paid.Oh I forgot you were recently bitching you didn't get any tax refunds this year.

One sector has profited from this trend by a huge margin. The wealth within the 1% has leapt in the past 50 years, the top 20% kept pace or grown slowly. The 80% have got poorer.

Trump has called for zero tolerance of illegal immigrants and is attempting to push China to buy more or face huge tariffs. The Left oppose both because they've been brainwashed.