Business How long before affiliates disappear from the porn industry?

[Paul Markham]

My post is shaped by the industry today, maybe for the last 15 years or more and the future

How many of you think that if none of you worked in porn, traffic would decrease? If there were no affiliate programs, would no people ever surf porn?

Who here brings in people who would not have ever bought/viewed porn? The answer is none, you feed off an existing need to devour porn and do nothing but direct them to sites to your choice where they choose whether to buy.

You're not good enough salesmen to sell the user something they don't want. That's the area of real salesmen. Fancy words don't change bad porn into good porn and the user knows the difference.

There has come a time when more models on OF, MFC, scenes on Tubes, pornsites and live cams, etc defeat the object of bringing in new buyers. We reached that point years ago when most sites stopped, slowed down or reduced the cost of the product. That affects the quality, which affects sales, which reduces the profit.

So expect large companies with global profiles to ignore al those but the ones bringing a lot of sales every day. Especially when modes can promote themselves, sites can submit galleries, buy adverts at pennies for 100s.

Then they can spend the money on making sure the product converts. Rather than paying 50%+ and delivering a less than perfect product.

[Klen]

Never, because top 10 tube sites are affiliates.

[ravo]

Affiliates will always be around - it's added marginal income to any program (that knows what it's doing).

Has the typical affiliate changed in the past 15 years? Of course.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Klen

Never, because top 10 tube sites are affiliates.

Maybe they will switch to selling ad and scenes spaces or just buy the sites for pennies on the dollar?

The problem is the number of new sites, the possibility of creating one today from scratch and what it adds to a companies turnover with affiliate payouts as high as they are.

The good old days were the years 2000 - 2006. With offline still existing.

How much of your present income comes 100% from porn compared with 15 years ago? That goes to everyone.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by ravo

Affiliates will always be around - it's added marginal income to any program (that knows what it's doing).

Has the typical affiliate changed in the past 15 years? Of course.

Only paysite affiliates declined, everything else went up.

[ravo]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

How much of your present income comes 100% from porn compared with 15 years ago? That goes to everyone.

Define "porn"? Does it include cam sites? Live chat sites? Hook up sites?

[Klen]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Maybe they will switch to selling ad and scenes spaces or just buy the sites for pennies on the dollar?

The problem is the number of new sites, the possibility of creating one today from scratch and what it adds to a companies turnover with affiliate payouts as high as they are.

The good old days were the years 2000 - 2006. With offline still existing.

How much of your present income comes 100% from porn compared with 15 years ago? That goes to everyone.

Nop, pornhub is actually going to different direction - they want to push paysites as much is possible, as that is far more profitable then selling ad space to general audience if done right.
My income is still 100% porn.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by ravo

Affiliates will always be around - it's added marginal income to any program (that knows what it's doing).

Has the typical affiliate changed in the past 15 years? Of course.

Marginal is the word. Could a site do all of its own promotion, what secrets do you possess that makes your job special? https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...R_0D74Q4dUDCA0

How much of your income comes 100% fromporn today compared with 15 years ago.

Is marginal worth 50%?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by ravo

Define "porn"? Does it include cam sites? Live chat sites? Hook up sites?

Paysites, cam sites, live chat sites. Hook up sites are dating sites and about meeting real people.

The problem is models and sites now promote themselves.

The huge surge inTubes has to affect the numbers buying, this affects the profit, which affects companies survival. Could sites make more money hiring a minimum wage kid to promote them?

How long does it take to submit a scene to the top 20 tube sites, write a few blogs, link to other sites, etc?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Klen

Only paysite affiliates declined, everything else went up.

I'm only talking affiliates, are there as affiliates many in the porn business as 15 years ago?

All industries centralise if a few companies can do what the majority do. Porn isn't rocket science, you know how to produce or you don't. If you know how to produce and promote it or can employ those who do you don't need outside affiliates.

Unless they bring in decent traffic, require little maintenance and on a reasonable commission.

I'm not saying companies can't promote themselves, I'm saying expect more in the future.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Klen

Nop, pornhub is actually going to different direction - they want to push paysites as much is possible, as that is far more profitable then selling ad space to general audience if done right.
My income is still 100% porn.

Ads are getting harder to sell at $5 X 1,000?

Yes sticking up a scene and hoping is the new future?

Is it as high as 15 years ago?

[CaptainHowdy]

Youre worried your sworn enemy, the affiliate model, will outlive you ? ?

[seeandsee]

You just gave me idea to revisit Hun site

[celandina]

Originally Posted by Klen

Nop, pornhub is actually going to different direction - they want to push paysites as much is possible, as that is far more profitable then selling ad space to general audience if done right.
My income is still 100% porn.

Usually mainstream follows porn, but this time porn will follow mainstream ....AVOD is the fastest growing segment, I am sure that AVOD in porn is just arround the corner... Here are the facts:

https://www.filmtake.com/streaming/a...rket-heats-up/

[celandina]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Marginal is the word. Could a site do all of its own promotion, what secrets do you possess that makes your job special? https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...R_0D74Q4dUDCA0

How much of your income comes 100% fromporn today compared with 15 years ago.

Is marginal worth 50%?

We run a VOD for almost 15 years and guess what ? We are doing just fine The reason is simple we make our own high end original content and we do not pay affiliates. 15 years ago adult was 20 % of our business ( the rest was mainstream), today it is other way around.

[ravo]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Marginal is the word. Could a site do all of its own promotion, what secrets do you possess that makes your job special? https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...R_0D74Q4dUDCA0

How much of your income comes 100% fromporn today compared with 15 years ago.

Is marginal worth 50%?

I'm using "marginal" in the financial sense, as in "extra" or "over and above". Any company will spend $1 to make an extra 1 cent in PROFIT. That's what I mean by marginal.

100% of my income comes from porn these days. I've been able to adapt...

[ravo]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I'm only talking affiliates, are there as affiliates many in the porn business as 15 years ago?

Of course not. You know the answer to that.

This business has hugely consolidated. Either get big, or get out of the way. Or, find a niche, and work it. It's no different from any other business, online or off.

[fuzebox]

Not touching this one

[The Porn Nerd]

Paul you are a small-minded person when it comes to business. You focus on the 50% an affiliate gets and, like all failed business people, worry that percentage is too much, what is the affiliate really doing, etc etc.

But here's the thing (my attitude): if an affiliate brings in a sale that is a sale I would not have gotten on my own. So, to me, that 50% is FREE MONEY since I did very little to no work at all to bring it in.

Unless you are a HUGE company like Amazon and you can sell "direct" to consumers affiliates are a major component of all online businesses.

But again Paul you fail to understand how a rising tide lifts all boats.

[Sly]

I still make enough affiliate money to cover a nice car payment and I haven't done any affiliate work in probably 5 years. Residuals and old links.

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by Klen

My income is still 100% porn.

Same here

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

Youre worried your sworn enemy, the affiliate model, will outlive you ? ?

It will take a few more years than I have.

Look at the evidence, is the affiliate model growing, are there more affiliates today than 15, 10, 5 years ago, are more sites promoting themselves?

No one in this thread except Klen with a few mega Tubes has given any good reasons why the affiliate model for porn should be saved. Come up with reasons it's thriving if you can.

No paysite needs affiliates unless they can send a lot of business and most of you can't.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It will take a few more years than I have.

Look at the evidence, is the affiliate model growing, are there more affiliates today than 15, 10, 5 years ago, are more sites promoting themselves?

No one in this thread except Klen with a few mega Tubes has given any good reasons why the affiliate model for porn should be saved. Come up with reasons it's thriving if you can.

No paysite needs affiliates unless they can send a lot of business and most of you can't.

Here are the Affiliate Facts in 2020 Paul:

There are a handful of Mega Affiliates like Pornhub, XVideos, etc. These sites have huge amounts of traffic and therefore can send relatively large amounts of traffic to Sponsors. Sponsors either buy ad space on these sites and/or submit content (pictures and videos) directly as a trade for traffic (banner/text links back to Sponsor's website)

Then there are the hundreds of "little fish" that own small tube sites, review sites, blogs and the like. They may only be able to send relatively small amounts of traffic to a Sponsor's paysite but theoretically that smaller traffic is more targeted so the conversions should be higher.

So: big sites send a lot of joins while the myriad of smaller sites collectively send a lot of joins. As a Program Owner I value and respect both levels of Affiliates because, in the end, they are essential to my success (and theirs). It is a symbiotic relationship.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Paul you are a small-minded person when it comes to business. You focus on the 50% an affiliate gets and, like all failed business people, worry that percentage is too much, what is the affiliate really doing, etc etc.

But here's the thing (my attitude): if an affiliate brings in a sale that is a sale I would not have gotten on my own. So, to me, that 50% is FREE MONEY since I did very little to no work at all to bring it in.

Unless you are a HUGE company like Amazon and you can sell "direct" to consumers affiliates are a major component of all online businesses.

But again Paul you fail to understand how a rising tide lifts all boats.

Thanks for confirming my post. No longer can sites rely on affiliates they have to generate their own traffic. Something fewer did 20 years ago. 1 sale a week per active affiliate is a nice bonus but does it run a real site with real costs and not a jumble of old material thrown together or cheap shit shot for a price. A site needs 100s of sales a week if it's to make a good profit do the maths with a $3,000 turnover and see what the income generated of it is.

Tell us what affiliates do that's so vital, so far only Glen has given an example.

Anyone would think the porn affiliate model is thriving with new affiliates, new surfers, new buyers pouring in by the hour. Truth is it's shrinking by the day. And you're mostly looking to other fields for the future income.

Give me evidence the porn affiliate model is growing because all the evidence I see is it's shrunk over the years. You can put up sites easy enough but that doesn't bring sales.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by ravo

I'm using "marginal" in the financial sense, as in "extra" or "over and above". Any company will spend $1 to make an extra 1 cent in PROFIT. That's what I mean by marginal.

100% of my income comes from porn these days. I've been able to adapt...

Why did you have to adapt, what happened to your affiliate model?

Are emails growing for porn sites or not? How many sites v affiliates do you email for?

As I said to PH no site can exist on marginal sales and he's a great example of how to do it on his own. Yes, the occasional or marginal sale is nice, but few can survive on them. Something they could 15 years ago. Stop using the occasional sale as the reason the porn affiliate is flourishing because it's proof it isn't.

That goes to everyone because it sounds like you're desperate to survive.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Here are the Affiliate Facts in 2020 Paul:

There are a handful of Mega Affiliates like Pornhub, XVideos, etc. These sites have huge amounts of traffic and therefore can send relatively large amounts of traffic to Sponsors. Sponsors either buy ad space on these sites and/or submit content (pictures and videos) directly as a trade for traffic (banner/text links back to Sponsor's website)

Then there are the hundreds of "little fish" that own small tube sites, review sites, blogs and the like. They may only be able to send relatively small amounts of traffic to a Sponsor's paysite but theoretically that smaller traffic is more targeted so the conversions should be higher.

So: big sites send a lot of joins while the myriad of smaller sites collectively send a lot of joins. As a Program Owner I value and respect both levels of Affiliates because, in the end, they are essential to my success (and theirs). It is a symbiotic relationship.

The big tubes, affiliates who can send 100 sales a week will survive.

You then go on to say sites submit, buy ad space. How many sales do you generate yourself and how many do affiliates, are you reliant on your affiliate work for part of your income?

Where are all the new customers coming from?

Do you have any idea how much was made in porn pre-Tubes?

[ravo]

Yes, Paul. You're right...

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The big tubes, affiliates who can send 100 sales a week will survive.

You then go on to say sites submit, buy ad space. How many sales do you generate yourself and how many do affiliates, are you reliant on your affiliate work for part of your income?

Where are all the new customers coming from?

Do you have any idea how much was made in porn pre-Tubes?

Yes I know full well what porn was like pre-tubes (and pre-Internet as I wrote for Penthouse magazine and reviewed porn video tapes LOL). But this matters NOT. I cannot invent a time machine. I cannot get into the porn biz five years earlier than I did thus riding that "Golden Era" to sweet retirement.

I began in earnest in 2008, during the biggest bank crisis since the Great Depression. EVERYONE said it was a race to zero. Did that stop me? Hell no! Unlike you I did not/do not sit around pining for the good ol' days. I had/have different metrics I equate with success NOW, in 2020 and beyond.

You keep saying smugly the "occasional sale". Do the math, you say - yet are terrible at doing the maths. If I have 100 websites and just a quarter of them make just 1 sale a day how many is that? Class? What if some of them made MORE than a single sale a day? Class? What if I had 200 sites? 300? 400??

You think so small Paul. A single website is so much different than a giant network of sites. Can a single new paysite go from zero to a million a year in revenue in 2020? Sure - with enough resources, and that includes affiliates. Not many want to do this however as there is a bigger return for many on those startup costs but it can be done. How do I know? Because paysites - new ones - keep opening, week after week after week.

Thing BIG Paul! Like the size of your ego.

[AmeliaG]

What ravo and The Porn Nerd said.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by ravo

Yes, Paul. You're right...

I sense sarcasm in this post

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by ravo

Yes, Paul. You're right...

That was the goal of this thread right?

[Mediamix]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Here are the Affiliate Facts in 2020 Paul:

There are a handful of Mega Affiliates like Pornhub, XVideos, etc. These sites have huge amounts of traffic and therefore can send relatively large amounts of traffic to Sponsors. Sponsors either buy ad space on these sites and/or submit content (pictures and videos) directly as a trade for traffic (banner/text links back to Sponsor's website)

Then there are the hundreds of "little fish" that own small tube sites, review sites, blogs and the like. They may only be able to send relatively small amounts of traffic to a Sponsor's paysite but theoretically that smaller traffic is more targeted so the conversions should be higher.

So: big sites send a lot of joins while the myriad of smaller sites collectively send a lot of joins. As a Program Owner I value and respect both levels of Affiliates because, in the end, they are essential to my success (and theirs). It is a symbiotic relationship.

[HairyChick]

The industry has changed and people have to adjust to change. Tubes are the “in” thing and TGPs aren’t top dog any longer.

Affiliates made the big sites big. You don’t like paying affiliates fifty percent of the sale but you’re not paying thousands of dollars for an ad that might be profitable.

You could have stayed stagnant but chose to have affiliates and pay them the industry standard at the time. You could have paid less but affiliates would have passed you on the way to the top.

You hate paying affiliates money but can’t make it on your own.

Tubes can grow or you, Paul, can come up with a better idea or model project for the future. I’m sure many here have ideas for the future of porn but lack the funds to create and grow their amazonian creation.

It’s easier to sit and put down those people who strongly helped you and bitch about the money it cost you to succeed.

Ingenuity is the best way to get ahead and get your head out of your way err ass. General statement that doesn’t necessarily reflect on you.

Unless the shoe fits .....

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by ravo

Yes, Paul. You're right...

You're doing well because you were able to adapt, why did you adapt if everything was fine?

So affiliates are doing as well as they did in 2000, 2005, 2010 and so on. Because there is no shrinkage of buyers, Tubes don't attract billions of who a small % buy, customers are as willing to buy today as when there was no free porn.

No ravo you're right in some alternative world no one here knows.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Yes I know full well what porn was like pre-tubes (and pre-Internet as I wrote for Penthouse magazine and reviewed porn video tapes LOL). But this matters NOT. I cannot invent a time machine. I cannot get into the porn biz five years earlier than I did thus riding that "Golden Era" to sweet retirement.

I began in earnest in 2008, during the biggest bank crisis since the Great Depression. EVERYONE said it was a race to zero. Did that stop me? Hell no! Unlike you I did not/do not sit around pining for the good ol' days. I had/have different metrics I equate with success NOW, in 2020 and beyond.

You keep saying smugly the "occasional sale". Do the math, you say - yet are terrible at doing the maths. If I have 100 websites and just a quarter of them make just 1 sale a day how many is that? Class? What if some of them made MORE than a single sale a day? Class? What if I had 200 sites? 300? 400??

You think so small Paul. A single website is so much different than a giant network of sites. Can a single new paysite go from zero to a million a year in revenue in 2020? Sure - with enough resources, and that includes affiliates. Not many want to do this however as there is a bigger return for many on those startup costs but it can be done. How do I know? Because paysites - new ones - keep opening, week after week after week.

Thing BIG Paul! Like the size of your ego.

Never use the word "if" to prove a point. Because it means you don't.

So there are as many affiliates, doing as well, making as many sales as there was 15 years ago. Boards are flourishing, GFY is as active as ever and there's no shrinkage in the porn affiliate game.

The reality and I won't use the word if. Are boards have died through lack of use, GFY is slower than it has ever been, ad space on boards no longer paid the bills and there are no new ones opening.

Tubes taking out a billion surfers daily by supplying them free porn has reduced sales. That does not mean no sales are made, it means less are made. The next big section are the premium sites, Brazzers, Met-Art, etc. They soak up a lot of sales. The figures you say "if" you did are more in line with one of those sites the reality is you don't.

But you're this personal when I point out a fact that 1,000 of affiliates have migrated to the mainstream, got into other jobs or doing less. So let's take out the personal and look at the state of the industry. That is that for porn the affiliate side is shrinking.

I cannot get into the porn biz five years earlier than I did thus riding that "Golden Era" to sweet retirement. So you admit is was possible to retire on the money made pre Tubes.

[femdomdestiny]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Here are the Affiliate Facts in 2020 Paul:

There are a handful of Mega Affiliates like Pornhub, XVideos, etc. These sites have huge amounts of traffic and therefore can send relatively large amounts of traffic to Sponsors. Sponsors either buy ad space on these sites and/or submit content (pictures and videos) directly as a trade for traffic (banner/text links back to Sponsor's website)

Then there are the hundreds of "little fish" that own small tube sites, review sites, blogs and the like. They may only be able to send relatively small amounts of traffic to a Sponsor's paysite but theoretically that smaller traffic is more targeted so the conversions should be higher.

So: big sites send a lot of joins while the myriad of smaller sites collectively send a lot of joins. As a Program Owner I value and respect both levels of Affiliates because, in the end, they are essential to my success (and theirs). It is a symbiotic relationship.

[ravo]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

That was the goal of this thread right?

It was my bad. I forgot the first rule of the Internet; "Don't feed the trolls.."

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Never use the word "if" to prove a point. Because it means you don't.

So there are as many affiliates, doing as well, making as many sales as there was 15 years ago. Boards are flourishing, GFY is as active as ever and there's no shrinkage in the porn affiliate game.

The reality and I won't use the word if. Are boards have died through lack of use, GFY is slower than it has ever been, ad space on boards no longer paid the bills and there are no new ones opening.

Tubes taking out a billion surfers daily by supplying them free porn has reduced sales. That does not mean no sales are made, it means less are made. The next big section are the premium sites, Brazzers, Met-Art, etc. They soak up a lot of sales. The figures you say "if" you did are more in line with one of those sites the reality is you don't.

But you're this personal when I point out a fact that 1,000 of affiliates have migrated to the mainstream, got into other jobs or doing less. So let's take out the personal and look at the state of the industry. That is that for porn the affiliate side is shrinking.

I cannot get into the porn biz five years earlier than I did thus riding that "Golden Era" to sweet retirement. So you admit is was possible to retire on the money made pre Tubes.

You have zero clue how many sales I do daily, and you never will. Must eat you up inside. LOL

Your point Paul seems to be: things are not as good as they were 15 years ago. The answer? Yes and no. YES the "old" online adult business model - the one YOU failed at btw, even when a retarded monkey could make sales in the pre-Tubes days - has changed. But NO this does not mean the Adult Industry is shrinking.

You see, porn has consolidated, like all successful Industries, where only a few major players have emerged. But just because Amazon exists does not mean other online retailers have just given up and gone away. Just because you fail at seeing where all the money has shifted does not mean it's gone.

[MaDalton]

[fuzebox]

I think Paul meant to call this thread "What happened to the TGP gallery submitters?"

[Klen]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

I think Paul meant to call this thread "What happened to the TGP gallery submitters?"

Actually some of them still making good money

[digitalfantasies]

Don't you think it's better to stop trying to understand a business that's too modern for you and start focusing on watering you plants and walking the dogs?

[gorillaz_]

Originally Posted by fuzebox

I think Paul meant to call this thread "What happened to the TGP gallery submitters?"

:

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

You have zero clue how many sales I do daily, and you never will. Must eat you up inside. LOL

Your point Paul seems to be: things are not as good as they were 15 years ago. The answer? Yes and no. YES the "old" online adult business model - the one YOU failed at btw, even when a retarded monkey could make sales in the pre-Tubes days - has changed. But NO this does not mean the Adult Industry is shrinking.

You see, porn has consolidated, like all successful Industries, where only a few major players have emerged. But just because Amazon exists does not mean other online retailers have just given up and gone away. Just because you fail at seeing where all the money has shifted does not mean it's gone.

Why do you have to make it personal?

No, I don't know how many sales you make daily, I only know that people who say "if" they did this or that don't.

The industry has consolidated and part of that has brought about a less important role for affiliates. 15 years ago every sponsor who wanted affiliates did everything they could for them. Today sponsors do very little or will you argue with that as well?

So tell us where has the money shifted and I know it hasn't gone.

15 years ago free porn was a small part of the industry, today it 99.99%. That's only 1-1,000 and it's never as good as that. Tubes and Torrents are a place to get free porn. The money that was spent on porn is being spent outside.

I'm pointing out that sponsors are less reliant of affiliates and the future for many of them is to bring traffic generation in-house because it has a better ROI. Why allow someone else to submit sample scenes to Tubes when it can be done by someone cheaper?

[PornDiscounts-V]

This thread is dumb.

It's like saying that companies who make car accessories will cease to exist because they don't make the main product.

Or that window tinting companies will go out of business because they don't make windows.

I offer the surfer something they want.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by PornDiscounts-V

This thread is dumb.

It's like saying that companies who make car accessories will cease to exist because they don't make the main product.

Or that window tinting companies will go out of business because they don't make windows.

I offer the surfer something they want.

It's not about what you offer, it's about what people will buy and what sponsors will pay for.

In the last 15 years, we've seen sponsors go from offering everything they could to not really bothering about affiliates unless they can send a lot of people that buy. They now rely far more on generating their own traffic. Most of the porn surfers are on 10-20 top Tubes a spot on them is something any sponsor can do himself.

Affiliates don't make porn, which is what your examples are saying. Bloggers write about it.

[Roald]

wow still same old huh :D

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Why do you have to make it personal?

No, I don't know how many sales you make daily, I only know that people who say "if" they did this or that don't.

The industry has consolidated and part of that has brought about a less important role for affiliates. 15 years ago every sponsor who wanted affiliates did everything they could for them. Today sponsors do very little or will you argue with that as well?

So tell us where has the money shifted and I know it hasn't gone.

15 years ago free porn was a small part of the industry, today it 99.99%. That's only 1-1,000 and it's never as good as that. Tubes and Torrents are a place to get free porn. The money that was spent on porn is being spent outside.

I'm pointing out that sponsors are less reliant of affiliates and the future for many of them is to bring traffic generation in-house because it has a better ROI. Why allow someone else to submit sample scenes to Tubes when it can be done by someone cheaper?

Well sorry to make it personal Paul but you personally started this mess.

Let's stop comparing the past to the present ok? Obviously things have changed. Where has the money shifted to from paysite sales? To:

cams
dating
dick pills
discounted offers
sex games
VOD
clips
Only Fans
sex toys
phone sex
erotic literature
direct tube accounts (no paysite needed)
on and on and on....

So are affiliates "needed" for any of the above? YES!!!!!!!!
Can a company do a lot of the affiliate work themselves? Yes - and not really. Not all that affiliates do, no.

So again (and for the last time in this thread): today it's a MIX of big and small affiliates. A smart company respects and works with ALL levels of affiliates.

[fuzebox]

"Affiliate" just describes a commission arrangement. This will never go away.

[mikeet]

Teaching an old dog new tricks can go on forever...