Serious Question: What is the point of the Covid Vaccine?

[Pink24]

From my understanding it won't stop you catching it and it won't stop you spreading it so why take it in the first place?

What does the vaccine actually do?

Sorry if my question is retarded. I am not a doctor but I do have a brain.

[8pt-buck]

Originally Posted by Pink24

From my understanding it won't stop you catching it and it won't stop you spreading it so why take it in the first place?

What does the vaccine actually do?

Sorry if my question is retarded. I am not a doctor but I do have a brain.

Your inquiry is not retarded, actually it makes a lot of sense ...

#1 - The scientists can not give a definitive answer whether the vaccine can halt Covid or not.

The same non-definitive answer applies to the now massive Covid variant strains which seems to be spawning from god-knows-where ..

It's just like the flu shot.. It will handle A, B and C .. but D,E, and F.. you're on your own...

[RyuLion]

There are no scientists here man, you're better off at CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-benefits.html

[Tasty1]

Well, the safety investigations of the vaccine will be held till 2023. So after that they can tell you if the vaccin worked, or not and for who. Everyone is a guinea pig now. People wanted it fast, so they get what they want. An untested 'vaccin'.

[Idigmygirls]

Originally Posted by Pink24

From my understanding it won't stop you catching it and it won't stop you spreading it so why take it in the first place?

What does the vaccine actually do?

Sorry if my question is retarded. I am not a doctor but I do have a brain.

Just like all vaccines, it cannot guarantee that you won't "catch" Covid. It just makes it so that when the Covid virus enters your body (you catch it), your immune system immediately destroys it.

So you could be "sick" for a few seconds or a few hours (technically speaking, though you'd never know it. A single virus has entered your body and started replicating, but your immune system recognizes it right away and kills it before it spreads from the first infected cell to any other cells...)

But in reality what happens is that you will be immune (for all intents and purposes) from becoming anything more than not-at-all symptomatic to mildly symptomatic. Only in very unusual cases would a person who is vaccinated become seriously ill; and in some of the vaccine trials (J&J for example), the vaccine was 100% effective in stopping serious illness - not a single person was hospitalized who got this shot, and zero people ended up dying.

So, you get your shot to prevent yourself from becoming seriously ill. You get the shot so that if you do get "sick" you almost certainly will only be sick for a few minutes to a few hours, and in the worst case scenario, you are sick for a few days with a mild to moderate illness.

[8pt-buck]

Originally Posted by Tasty1

Well, the safety investigations of the vaccine will be held till 2023. So after that they can tell you if the vaccin worked, or not and for who. Everyone is a guinea pig now. People wanted it fast, so they get what they want. An untested 'vaccin'.

[sarettah]

Serious Question: What is the point of the Covid Vaccine?

To get the microchips into your blood system of course. Haven't you been paying attention?

.

[klinton]

Originally Posted by Idigmygirls

Just like all vaccines

no, not really lol.
typically, what is considered as vaccine, is containing dead or weakened viruses, that help your immune system to recognize this danger and make you totally immune to it.

this one, mRNA, is different, is more like a "immune booster".

[grzepa]

Depending on the vaccine it will stop you from catching it in more than 90% , if you don't catch it you will not spread it.

So...yes it's worth it.

[Pink24]

Originally Posted by grzepa

Depending on the vaccine it will stop you from catching it in more than 90% , if you don't catch it you will not spread it.

So...yes it's worth it.

But, the poster above you said that it won't stop you catching it. So, which is it?

Also, if you have had it before and you were asymptomatic or mild symptomatic why should you get it?

[redwhiteandblue]

Originally Posted by sarettah

To get the microchips into your blood system of course. Haven't you been paying attention?

.

Nanochips. Get it right.

[redwhiteandblue]

Originally Posted by Pink24

Also, if you have had it before and you were asymptomatic or mild symptomatic why should you get it?

You shouldn't need to IMO. If you've had it before you should be just as immune, or more so, than if you get the vaccine. Only those who are immuno-compromised need worry about catching it twice. Until it mutates so far that our immune systems no longer recognise it that is, but when that happens current vaccines will be useless anyway.

[CurrentlySober]

The point is so that the Governments, our 'leaders', can be seen to be doing SOMETHING tangible...

Sure, it's not 100% effective (But what is these days) but by organising the jabs, having people get them, and repoorting the % of people vaccinated etc, it gives the public some sense of hope - That progress 'IS' being made and that they are doing 'something' for us...

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

The point is so that the Governments, our 'leaders', can be seen to be doing SOMETHING tangible...

Sure, it's not 100% effective (But what is these days) but by organising the jabs, having people get them, and repoorting the % of people vaccinated etc, it gives the public some sense of hope - That progress 'IS' being made and that they are doing 'something' for us...

This right there is what most government intervention and measures are all about with Corona. It's also how government works with most policies really. Vaccines, masks and closing schools and restaurants are all to show us they are doing something and so we can't blame them for the deaths that will inevitably occur.

They gambled on the vaccine since it's an mRNA type which is a first for vaccines. But fortunately it seems like it is working and will give you immunity for a few years at least. Like Idigmygirls said above, when the virus enters your body you won't get sick or get very mild symptoms if you do. When enough of the elderly get the vaccine then the deaths and hospitalizations will drop. They will also drop because all pandemics seem to Peter-out at about 18 months and then become endemic, meaning Corona will be one of the common cold virus' we have circulating with us every year.

The vaccine will work along with the immunity from people who have been infected already. The reason they say it won't fully protect us is because they want to make sure public opinion is 100% behind the idea of us opening after the vaccine before doing so.

Again they don't want to be blamed for anything and they know we WILL pin anything that goes wrong on them. And they are right.

[hamiltonsteele]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

The point is so that the Governments, our 'leaders', can be seen to be doing SOMETHING tangible...

Sure, it's not 100% effective (But what is these days) but by organising the jabs, having people get them, and repoorting the % of people vaccinated etc, it gives the public some sense of hope - That progress 'IS' being made and that they are doing 'something' for us...

Absolutely right but I'll also add that they made
a mountain out of a mole hill in the first place
for political gain. They're also using this
pandemic as a way to cease tons of power
and money.

Like it or not, we're communists now.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

Nanochips. Get it right.

Micro, Nano, Lays, Doritos... Who Cares????

Chips is Chips.

.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Micro, Nano, Lays, Doritos... Who Cares????

Chips is Chips.

.

Except in the UK where they are 'CRISPS'...

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

Except in the UK where they are 'CRISPS'...

Really? Why do you guys have to come up with a different name for everything?

.

[The Porn Nerd]

What we need are nano bots that can be injected into the bloodstream and go attack various viruses, illnesses and diseases.

It's the fucking 21st century man! I want my Star Trek/science fiction/multiverse/nano tech Borg bots baby!!!

[CaptainHowdy]

They're counting on the placebo effect ? ?

[Rochard]

It's a vaccine, just like any other vaccine.

If you get the flu shot, it helps to prevent you from getting the flu. It doesn't mean you won't get the flu. But if you do, it will be less severe.

Same thing with the COVID vaccine. It should prevent you from getting it in the first place. If you do get it, it will be less serve. If you do get it, the odds of you dying are very slim.

[Pink24]

Originally Posted by Rochard

It's a vaccine, just like any other vaccine.

If you get the flu shot, it helps to prevent you from getting the flu. It doesn't mean you won't get the flu. But if you do, it will be less severe.

Same thing with the COVID vaccine. It should prevent you from getting it in the first place. If you do get it, it will be less serve. If you do get it, the odds of you dying are very slim.

Unless of course you die from the vaccine. Liek all those in the nursing homes.

I have first hand experience of the vaccine. My mom, 70+, her frind 70+ and her brother also 70+ all got the vaccine withing days of each other. Each of them became ill for around 24 hours. It was of course a reaction to the vaccine and is of coourse "perfectly normal" however. I have to wonder if, my fit and healthy 70 year old mom got ill and floored what impact this would have on someone older and more vulnerable.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

Nanochips. Get it right.

Picochips

[PornDiscounts-V]

Just get it and shut up so I can go to Hawaii.

[eric_wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Pink24

From my understanding it won't stop you catching it and it won't stop you spreading it so why take it in the first place?

What does the vaccine actually do?

Sorry if my question is retarded. I am not a doctor but I do have a brain.

The main activity Vaccine do is build immunity in your body against diseases. Yes, you may get Covid ,but with vaccination your body will be better prepared to handle it.

There is no harm in going it. Who knows tomorrow they put a rule to allow only vaccinated people in plane or in dinining

[Darkcrni]

The point is to fuck you up, real good!

[Applebite Media]

Originally Posted by Pink24

But, the poster above you said that it won't stop you catching it.

Well before believing the "person above" that wrote that.... Look at their qualifications.

Someone mentioned microchips... LMAO... You have one in your hand... Your damn phone tracks everything so... that is not needed. How many of you actually are ever without your phone? Seriously. Christ, I have seen some people have 2 conversations in chat and one in real life at the same time.

Take it, don't take it.... that is your choice. Personally, I'll get it... if it works great, if not and I get covid... well I tried everything available to me to prevent it.

Close to a year of isolation and I am about ready to say fuck it all... bring the fucking covid on.... I'm tired of this shit! Fuck, if covid don't get me, over 40 years of smoking will

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by PornDiscounts-V

Just get it and shut up so I can go to Hawaii.

I'm not sure I believe the governments will let us once we're all vaccinated, even though they said they would.

[hamiltonsteele]

Originally Posted by Applebite Media

Close to a year of isolation and I am about ready to say fuck it all... bring the fucking covid on.... I'm tired of this shit!

Even with the vaccine there is not single government that is going to
allow us to go back to normal. There are always going to be
restrictions that will limit our travel, how many friends we can have
and how we do business.

To make matters worse, there are going to be millions of people that
will viciously argue that it's the fault of someone somewhere that's
not doing as they're told is why we're not going back to normal.

It's effectively game over.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Pink24

From my understanding it won't stop you catching it and it won't stop you spreading it so why take it in the first place?

What does the vaccine actually do?

Sorry if my question is retarded. I am not a doctor but I do have a brain.

you having had covid twice doubt you need a vaccine

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Really? Why do you guys have to come up with a different name for everything?

.

The real question is why do you guys feel the need to change everything?

We were speaking English first... You still talk English, even if it IS 'American English'...

[CurrentlySober]

I just had an email saying when my vax apootment is. It also states I'm "Clinically Extremely Vulnerable" and its given me a code to get priority deliver slots from supermarkets etc... Bit late if you ask me - They could have done this last year...

(The Priority Food Slots / Obviously Not the Vaccine)

[Klen]

Originally Posted by hamiltonsteele

Even with the vaccine there is not single government that is going to
allow us to go back to normal. There are always going to be
restrictions that will limit our travel, how many friends we can have
and how we do business.

To make matters worse, there are going to be millions of people that
will viciously argue that it's the fault of someone somewhere that's
not doing as they're told is why we're not going back to normal.

It's effectively game over.

Yet in communist china they party like tomorrow does not exist

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by Klen

Yet in communist china they party like tomorrow does not exist

What restrictions do they have there now? I haven't read much about China and their covid situation lately.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue

You shouldn't need to IMO. If you've had it before you should be just as immune, or more so, than if you get the vaccine. Only those who are immuno-compromised need worry about catching it twice. Until it mutates so far that our immune systems no longer recognise it that is, but when that happens current vaccines will be useless anyway.

incorrect..

mutated or not the vaccine attacks the base of what makes the virus so easily spread, the spikes. So it not only protects you from getting it and spreading within you at an impressive number it also makes it even more unlikely it can be spread due to how your body would handle it post vaccine. They are having people still wearing masks and social distancing post vaccine because you COULD still hypothetically infect someone who is not yet vaccinated and very vulnerable to even a mild weakened form of it. But at these rates it could clear the problem pretty fast.

All this stuff is readily available to anyone who can work the internet, i'm really confused why there is anyone left that doesn't have a basic understanding of how this particular vaccine works.

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

They are having people still wearing masks and social distancing post vaccine because you COULD still hypothetically infect someone

Hypothetically. Not a reason to make people still do things that never really worked anyway.

[Pink24]

Originally Posted by Applebite Media

Well before believing the "person above" that wrote that.... Look at their qualifications.

Someone mentioned microchips... LMAO... You have one in your hand... Your damn phone tracks everything so... that is not needed. How many of you actually are ever without your phone? Seriously. Christ, I have seen some people have 2 conversations in chat and one in real life at the same time.

Take it, don't take it.... that is your choice. Personally, I'll get it... if it works great, if not and I get covid... well I tried everything available to me to prevent it.

Close to a year of isolation and I am about ready to say fuck it all... bring the fucking covid on.... I'm tired of this shit! Fuck, if covid don't get me, over 40 years of smoking will

How do you feel about the possibility that it's effects won't be felt for a generation or more. So, it could make you sterile or make your children infertile?

I'm not saying that's what's happening. Just wondered your thoughts.

The last paragraph you wrote reminds me of a quote.

[Applebite Media]

Originally Posted by Pink24

How do you feel about the possibility that it's effects won't be felt for a generation or more. So, it could make you sterile or make your children infertile?

I'm not saying that's what's happening. Just wondered your thoughts.

The last paragraph you wrote reminds me of a quote.

I'm 56, or will be on the 22nd My days of having kids are done... I am a smoker of 40 years.. so personally, my long term is not as long as some. I believe lung cancer will get me before covid or the vaccine would.

But I hear your concern. I am not a very trusting person in general but when it comes to our government, even less! Dem, Repub... all the same. All work for the corporations and keeping them flowing with money at any cost... even our health. Remember, they made corporations people... think about that when you hear them talking about the "people".

When you think about it..... we are ALL to blame for this virus.

Many companies, American and all over the world, send manufacturing to China for cheap labor. They have basically no environmental policy so their air, water and land are over polluted spawning new disease.

Christ, even the past president... the "Make America Great" president's own daughter was sending her shit to china to be manufactured. HAHAHA!

So, I laugh when I hear the term "China Virus" since we are all responsible for this shit. Even if you are not a manufacturer, you still buy products made in China which further supports their policy.

Something to think about.

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by Darkcrni

The point is to fuck you up, real good!

[S3X_Jay]

Originally Posted by Pink24

From my understanding it won't stop you catching it and it won't stop you spreading it so why take it in the first place?

What does the vaccine actually do?

Sorry if my question is retarded. I am not a doctor but I do have a brain.

I got my Pfizer shot two days ago. In two weeks I'll have an 85% reduction in the chances of having symptomatic COVID. By 3/24 (two weeks after my second shot) that number will go up to 95%.

Why take it? The answer is really simple - to reduce my chances of going to the hospital and dying.

Data out of Israel (where they're basically doing a Phase 4 clinical trial using the entire country) says I'm far less likely to get asymptomatic COVID as well. Which means I'm far less likely to spread COVID to other people.

So while it doesn't completely stop you from catching it and passing it to others it it greatly reduces both. That, and keeping you out of the hospital, is why you should get vaccinated.

Oh, and the other reason to get it, is that it gives you your life back. Come 3/24 I can go out and do stuff, meet with friends, go to bars, etc.

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

I got my Pfizer shot two days ago. In two weeks I'll have an 85% reduction in the chances of having symptomatic COVID. By 3/24 (two weeks after my second shot) that number will go up to 95%.

Why take it? The answer is really simple - to reduce my chances of going to the hospital and dying.

Data out of Israel (where they're basically doing a Phase 4 clinical trial using the entire country) says I'm far less likely to get asymptomatic COVID as well. Which means I'm far less likely to spread COVID to other people.

So while it doesn't completely stop you from catching it and passing it to others it it greatly reduces both. That, and keeping you out of the hospital, is why you should get vaccinated.

I think the OP was asking why take it if nothing is going to change? If you can still get sick and pass it on? Your answer is correct by the way. It will protect you and do what vaccines do, which is beat the virus down and get it to where it is circulating at very low levels. The vaccine + natural immunity from people already infected will do just that. But you'd never know that with media and government messaging who keep giving us the impression that the vaccine will help some, but not enough to really have any significant impact. It's a lie of course but it's being said to prepare people to keep the measures going which leads me to your next point.

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

Oh, and the other reason to get it, is that it gives you your life back. Come 3/24 I can go out and do stuff, meet with friends, go to bars, etc.

Why do you think you'll get that freedom back? Unless you have imposed restrictions on yourself you'll have to wait for the government to decide when you can get your life back. And that's the crux of the issue in our society.

If your restrictions are self imposed then that's one thing. If bars are open and your friends want to meet you can do that whenever you like.

Many others though have a different point of view and feel we can go out to restaurants and meet friends now, without a vaccine. For us, we are waiting for the government to open up those types of places and are not convinced that even a vaccine will be enough for them. They keep moving the goal posts and use vague language as to what is necessary to get back to normal.

[TheLegacy]

Originally Posted by eric_wahlberg

The main activity Vaccine do is build immunity in your body against diseases. Yes, you may get Covid ,but with vaccination your body will be better prepared to handle it.

There is no harm in going it. Who knows tomorrow they put a rule to allow only vaccinated people in plane or in dinining

Agreed - we all got vaccines when younger for various diseases in the past - this will just be another added to that. Why is it freaking everyone out so much? misinformation and lack of trust in medicines and science. There are many viruses that are still around but you don't hear about it unless you hear of a group that refuses to vaccinated their kids - then suddenly a virus that was known long ago appears.

Just thin out the herd by ridding ourselves of idiots who can't think already

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by TheLegacy

Why is it freaking everyone out so much? misinformation and lack of trust in medicines and science.

Some people freak because they are already slanted towards being an anti-vaxer.

But most of us are "concerned" because of the lack of research that went into the development of it. Most vaccines take 10 years to develop. This took 8 months with lots of short cuts. It's reasonable to ask lots of questions and be on the fence about taking this one.

My opinion is that it probably is safe. But what is extremely disturbing is the lack of discussion and even the dismissal of any safety concerns. Why can't we even talk about it without being lumped into the anti vaxer crowd? Because that's how all of this Corona management has been. Shut up, do as you're told and don't ask questions which is an attitude people will always fight against.

[S3X_Jay]

Originally Posted by mopek1

Why do you think you'll get that freedom back? Unless you have imposed restrictions on yourself you'll have to wait for the government to decide when you can get your life back. And that's the crux of the issue in our society.

If your restrictions are self imposed then that's one thing. If bars are open and your friends want to meet you can do that whenever you like.

Many others though have a different point of view and feel we can go out to restaurants and meet friends now, without a vaccine. For us, we are waiting for the government to open up those types of places and are not convinced that even a vaccine will be enough for them. They keep moving the goal posts and use vague language as to what is necessary to get back to normal.

I came out in the middle of the AIDS crisis and had a lover die of AIDS when I was still in my 20s. I cared for him to the end. So I take pandemics seriously. I was also told I had a brain tumor at the age of 18. 22 years later they said it was just a scar, but I've thought a fair amount about my own mortality.

What I learned from the AIDS epidemic is that you listen to science and do risk reduction. So I simply stopped indoor activities with people other than my husband. I still did stuff with my cycling club. And took commuter rail trains and the subway to go on bike rides since neither had been identified as particularly risky. The big "splurge" was going to spend the weekend with a friend and her daughter. But we knew they were low risk as were were and we got tested a couple days before. And of course I put on a mask when outside my home (though not for exercise).

And having had my lover die a year before ARVs came out, when the vaccines came out for COVID and they were 95% effective I got even stricter about risk. My motto was "you don't want to be the person who dies a week before he could have gotten a vaccine". Been there, done that with my lover. Lesson learned. (Though the AIDS crisis was completely different - it's not like he took risk at a time when there was any real hope.)

So it's not like my life stopped. But certain things stopped. I was fine with that but I look forward to having a full life again.

As far as people who didn't stop their lives… I wasn't going to be one of those people for three reasons - 1) my life is worth more than that, 2) I have a problem with killing other people, which is exactly what can happen if you pass it onto someone else, and 3) the pandemic ends more quickly and it's less severe if everyone just sucks it up and does what's best for the community (e.g. like they've done in Taiwan and New Zealand).

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

I came out in the middle of the AIDS crisis and had a lover die of AIDS when I was still in my 20s. I cared for him to the end. So I take pandemics seriously. I was also told I had a brain tumor at the age of 18. 22 years later they said it was just a scar, but I've thought a fair amount about my own mortality.

What I learned from the AIDS epidemic is that you listen to science and do risk reduction. So I simply stopped indoor activities with people other than my husband. I still did stuff with my cycling club. And took commuter rail trains and the subway to go on bike rides since neither had been identified as particularly risky. The big "splurge" was going to spend the weekend with a friend and her daughter. But we knew they were low risk as were were and we got tested a couple days before. And of course I put on a mask when outside my home (though not for exercise).

And having had my lover die a year before ARVs came out, when the vaccines came out for COVID and they were 95% effective I got even stricter about risk. My motto was "you don't want to be the person who dies a week before he could have gotten a vaccine". Been there, done that with my lover. Lesson learned. (Though the AIDS crisis was completely different - it's not like he took risk at a time when there was any real hope.)

So it's not like my life stopped. But certain things stopped. I was fine with that but I look forward to having a full life again.

As far as people who didn't stop their lives… I wasn't going to be one of those people for three reasons - 1) my life is worth more than that, 2) I have a problem with killing other people, which is exactly what can happen if you pass it onto someone else, and 3) the pandemic ends more quickly and it's less severe if everyone just sucks it up and does what's best for the community (e.g. like they've done in Taiwan and New Zealand).

Going through what you have with the AIDS epidemic and losing someone is life changing I can imagine. It would of course lead you to the conclusion that you should reduce risk and listen to the doctors to make yourself better. To contemplate your mortality and see the world differently afterwards. I can fully relate and agree.

I think that if you want to take the vaccine and feel it will protect you then that is the right choice.

My only gripe was about the fact that we can't "discuss" what the right choice is nowadays. That there are thousands of scientists who don't get any airtime because they don't hold the mainstream opinion. Not that the vaccine is bad, but why can't we even question it? That's pretty much what science is all about. Questioning and questioning some more.

Like you I too want to NOT hurt people, but my belief is that these measures are hurting more people and they are doing more harm than good.

On the vaccine front, I'm happy it's working and feel that it's a "good thing" it's available.

Again, I want to know why if I ask certain questions of it am I dismissed or lumped into the anti vaxer crowd when I am pro vaccine and not against people taking this at all.

My conclusion is that this covid issue has become political and emotional, and once that happens it's hard for people to see clearly enough to have a discussion and make the best decisions.

Emotional decisions cost us even though we all do that everyday of our lives.

[S3X_Jay]

Originally Posted by mopek1

…but my belief is …

When beliefs don't line up with facts from peer-reviewed studies and findings large scale datasets, you change the beliefs to match the facts.

The important thing is being able to distinguish good data from bullshit, made up data.

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

When beliefs don't line up with facts from peer-reviewed studies and findings large scale datasets, you change the beliefs to match the facts.

The important thing is being able to distinguish good data from bullshit, made up data.

True. As long as we all get a chance to talk about it, without being censored, cancelled or shamed for putting forth our ideas.

[S3X_Jay]

Originally Posted by mopek1

True. As long as we all get a chance to talk about it, without being censored, cancelled or shamed for putting forth our ideas.

Science doesn't really care about your "ideas". What it absolutely loves is people asking questions and getting to understand the data - both what the studies are saying and their limitations.

So yes, let's have a discussion. But the ground rules have to be that scientific findings have far greater weight than a lay person's beliefs and ideas. The problem lately is that certain news sources have been giving equal or greater weight to unfounded theories than they are to rigorously produced scientific findings. That type of discussion is harmful (in this case to public health) so it deserves censorship. People's lives are at risk. They deserve the actual facts so they can make informed decisions.

[mopek1]

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

Science doesn't really care about your "ideas". What it absolutely loves is people asking questions and getting to understand the data

Science likes that but the media, our governments and many of our citizens don't.

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

So yes, let's have a discussion. But the ground rules have to be that scientific findings have far greater weight than a lay person's beliefs and ideas.

Great. they why have so many scientists who have been epidemiologists for decades been left out of the conversation? Why are they shunned? Thousands, across the world?

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

The problem lately is that certain news sources have been giving equal or greater weight to unfounded theories than they are to rigorously produced scientific findings.

I find the same, CNN, MSNBC and Fox to name a few.

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

People's lives are at risk. They deserve the actual facts so they can make informed decisions.

Of course. here are some facts. Florida is wide open (has been since October) and doing much better than locked down California. Why?

Some states who don't have mask mandates are doing the same in terms of corona infections and deaths, as other who do. Why?

Some countries locked down hard like Peru, UK, Spain and got the worst of it. Others like Japan, Belarus and Sweden didn't lock down or not much at all and are doing the same and in some cases better than the first 3 I told you about. Why?

If you're going to make us wear masks, lock us down and make us all suffer you better have an answer to all these questions.

Otherwise you are taking a situation in which you have no control (a respiratory virus) and compounding it by doing something that makes things much, much worse for us all.

[Applebite Media]

Originally Posted by S3X_Jay

Science doesn't really care about your "ideas". What it absolutely loves is people asking questions and getting to understand the data - both what the studies are saying and their limitations.

So yes, let's have a discussion. But the ground rules have to be that scientific findings have far greater weight than a lay person's beliefs and ideas. The problem lately is that certain news sources have been giving equal or greater weight to unfounded theories than they are to rigorously produced scientific findings. That type of discussion is harmful (in this case to public health) so it deserves censorship. People's lives are at risk. They deserve the actual facts so they can make informed decisions.

But are the facts real? And are they complete? The media only tells bits and pieces. We do not hear about the healthy that are dying from this vaccine. Small numbers? maybe... but who is to say you are not one of the small numbers that die?

Hard to tell what and what not to believe. ;)