I am a Chaturbate cammodel, ask me anything

[LiLi]

Hoping to redirect the conversation about any and all other topics from my Stripchat thread here, I am happy to respond to any questions you might have on any topics including the relationship between affiliates and models

[J. Falcon]

Can we see some pics?

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

Can we see some pics?

. . .

[Boob Bucks]

Hello Lili, do you know any models with extra massive boobs like the picture in my thumb? We are always hiring.

[King Mark]

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

Can we see some pics?

[animeHentai]

Hi Lili
Do you blog?
If not, would you like to blog?

[yuu.design]

Originally Posted by LiLi

Hoping to redirect the conversation about any and all other topics from my Stripchat thread here, I am happy to respond to any questions you might have on any topics including the relationship between affiliates and models

Hi Lili! Do you have recommendations for a new model to start on chaturbate? How to get on the front page of CB. She doesn't have any fanbase yet

[JustBiz]

Hey,
Stripchat pops seem gone from our Russian friend's site when I just checked, banner creative only left. Halfway there? ^^

[sarettah]

Hello Lili,

Since you have expertise in camming and affiliate marketing, and seem to have direct contact with models, what would you recommend as the best way to get models to stop cheating the system by telling users to clear cookies and sign up under them.

I realize that the problem may not be as prevalent as it may sometimes seem but it is an issue. The current method of reporting models to Chaturbate and hoping the support takes action is quite cumbersome and frustrating. It is just whack a mole in the long run.

Most of us (I think) would rather not having to be reporting models. Nobody wants to feel like they are ratting somebody out. I think we would all like to send models traffic.

Some of us, if we are running an api loaded site, will just keep a filter list so when we learn of a model doing that we just make sure that none of our traffic goes directly to that model.

Personally, I would like to send as much traffic as I can to as many models as I can but I do want the credit for my efforts to go to me and not be diverted along the way.

So, as I said at the start, do you have any recommendations in this regard?

Thanks in advance.

.

[Brian mike]

Originally Posted by yuu.design

Hi Lili! Do you have recommendations for a new model to start on chaturbate? How to get on the front page of CB. She doesn't have any fanbase yet

DivaTraffic

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by yuu.design

Hi Lili! Do you have recommendations for a new model to start on chaturbate? How to get on the front page of CB. She doesn't have any fanbase yet

A complete in depth answer to that question would be too long, but I will give you 5 tips that will help her a lot.

1) Long streaming sessions. Tell her to aim to be on cam for 4 hours at a bare minimum and to aim for 7-8 at a a time. This is because of the way CB's positioning works. When 2 models have the same number of viewers the model who has been on longest will be listed first. So this will give her an edge to climb the pages.

2) The first week is critical, she will get the "new" tag and she will be brand new to anyone waltzing in. She has to cam as much as she possibly can that first week, if she can pull all nighters, she should. This is especially so if she has a personality and a modicum of charisma. Personality camgirls are the most successful so the first couple of weeks she will hook the people who will be the building blocks of her incipient community. She shouldn't waste it.

3) If money is not a pressing issue, tell her not to get naked the first week and to focus all of her attention on having fun with her audience. No private shows, no tip menus, she needs to create a sense of expectation and intrigue before she should do anything else. Tell her to not even look at the tokens. She can do fun goals, but no nudity.

4) This ties in with (3) but she must not oversexualize herself. This is probably the biggest mistake new girls make. She is a person, not a niche or a fetish, she has to avoid branding herself after anything sexual. IE: avoid usenames like "BigBoobsCarla" or "TwerkingStacy" or "TightHoles". You attract the crowd you will then have to endure and it's best to aim for gentlemen and people who are there looking to be entertained not just a quick fap. They tip better, are more loyal and actually fun to interact with. All around better experience.

5) No PMs. No split camming. No phones on her desk. She is there to entertain and anything that distracts her from public chat must be kept shut tight.

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Hello Lili,

Since you have expertise in camming and affiliate marketing, and seem to have direct contact with models, what would you recommend as the best way to get models to stop cheating the system by telling users to clear cookies and sign up under them.

I realize that the problem may not be as prevalent as it may sometimes seem but it is an issue. The current method of reporting models to Chaturbate and hoping the support takes action is quite cumbersome and frustrating. It is just whack a mole in the long run.

Most of us (I think) would rather not having to be reporting models. Nobody wants to feel like they are ratting somebody out. I think we would all like to send models traffic.

Some of us, if we are running an api loaded site, will just keep a filter list so when we learn of a model doing that we just make sure that none of our traffic goes directly to that model.

Personally, I would like to send as much traffic as I can to as many models as I can but I do want the credit for my efforts to go to me and not be diverted along the way.

So, as I said at the start, do you have any recommendations in this regard?

Thanks in advance.

.

First is to understand the nature of the offense. There are three types of models stealing affiliate signups: the ignorant, the locusts, and sheep. The ignorant don't know what an affiliate is, they believe if they don't get the extra 20%, Chaturbate keeps it so in their minds they think "why let it go to waste?" there are also those who kinda know a little but don't understand the scope or the impact of what they are doing. This first group is the majority.

Then there are the locusts, the second group, these girls know perfectly well what they are doing and they don't care, they are willing to let the ship sink if that means they get a minimal advantage. It's like those piracy sites, exactly the same mechanic: neither cares what happens to the other side of the equation, they are willing to destroy an entire industry to keep themselves afloat, they have no qualms. These people will never change.

The third group is the sheep. These girls know what they are doing is wrong... and perhaps they didn't steal at first, they had their own reservations, but they see how many do it, maybe she has seen her own members switch affiliate accounts to support another model on the site and they figure "why should I be the only decent one here?" so they join the bad crowd.

What is the solution? First to know you will never change the locusts, they don't give a fuck and in those cases you do need to chase them if you want to stop them from doing this. CB support has been quite vigilant making sure models remove the "clear cookies" texts form their bios, but they can't do anything if the model approaches the member privately... say... on social media.. and asks them to signup with a new account. You need to be prepared to either fight them for it, or accept it as a part of the business.

But there IS something we can do about the ignorant and the sheep. We need to educate the ignorant so they understand what the importance of the affiliate maketers is and how stealing from them puts them off the site entirely. How, when in 2014 MFC got too big for it's britches and decided to cut the affiliate program off they went to the shitter and Chaturbate overtook them in less than a year, they haven't been able to recover from that poor business choice and probably never will. Traffic is what makes our work possible, and we don't get traffic without affiliates. When models cheat the affiliates they go advertise something else. And then models complain about a drop in traffic and difficulty earning what they used to. It is all interlinked!

And for the sheep I think shaming is the best tactic, but that would require to teach the ignorant and get a few of the big names all the other girls look up to in the wagon of "save the affiliates! fuck the cheaters!" which could be quite hard to do.

If you want a piece of advice: no industry is perfectly efficient and there are losses and problems with any job. You put up a supermarket and you will have people stealing shit all the time, what do you do? you should put up better security systems? yeah, will you make it your mission to curb robberies in the US just to save your supermaket? that's an impossible utopia. What you do is you try to secure your own business as best you can and take into account robberies as part of the expenses. Same thing here. There will be stealing, always... very little you can do. Blacklisting models who ask members to clear cookies from your whitelabel is like placing a security system on your supermarket. But what you really should do is figure out a way to make so many signups that if they steal a handful is not a big deal.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by LiLi

You put up a supermarket and you will have people stealing shit all the time...

are u stalking me? how did you no i just been 'shopping'?

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by yuu.design

Hi Lili! Do you have recommendations for a new model to start on chaturbate? How to get on the front page of CB. She doesn't have any fanbase yet

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by LiLi

What is the solution? First to know you will never change the locusts

But there IS something we can do about the ignorant and the sheep. We need to educate the ignorant so they understand what the importance of the affiliate maketers is and how stealing from them puts them off the site entirely.

I agree completely. The problem is, who will do the educating?

I imagine that if I wenet over to Amber's place and started threads that purported to "teach" the models somethingm, I would be greeted with a lot of shit. The thread would probably be pulled. That is because I am not a cam performer so what the hell am I doing trying to tell them how to run their business.

The education, in my opinion, has to come from models to models.

Thanks for your answer. Hope you stick around.

.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by sarettah

I agree completely. The problem is, who will do the educating?

I imagine that if I wenet over to Amber's place and started threads that purported to "teach" the models somethingm, I would be greeted with a lot of shit. The thread would probably be pulled. That is because I am not a cam performer so what the hell am I doing trying to tell them how to run their business.

The education, in my opinion, has to come from models to models.

Thanks for your answer. Hope you stick around.

.

Wouldn't it be in the best interest of the cam company to control their models better? After all, bad business is bad business.

[JesseQuinn]

@Lili I agree completely with your three types of model approaches to trying to gain sign-ups, and @S as well that it probably wouldn't go over well for you to join a performer forum and try to 'educate'

to me cb is the real responsible party when it comes to the 'clear your cookies/use a new browser and sign up under my link' crowd

I know cb is capable of monitoring their site...a friend of mine started camming when he lost his job due to covid and was streaming at my place one day. I had just woken up, didn't realize he was online, walked behind him to get to the kitchen and he got suspended for an unauthorized person on cam. I was on screen in the background for about all of 5 seconds

he had signed up to another site at the same time but hadn't tried it, went there during his suspension, started banking from day 1 and never went back to cb

point is, if cb could catch that, they can check profiles for cammers actively trying to steal clients. cb is the party dropping the ball here

Originally Posted by sarettah

Hope you stick around

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by ruff

Wouldn't it be in the best interest of the cam company to control their models better? After all, bad business is bad business.

Yeah but Chaturbate became so popular with the models because they are more liberal with their policies. It is definitely a "model friendly" platform which in a lot of ways is good.

But because of that it is harder to monitor and enforce the policies they do have.

All in my opinion of course.

Imagine a place where models and affiliate marketers actually worked together for a common goal. Both sides could make money hand over foot. It could be 1999 again ;p

when pigs can fly

.

[mikeylikesit]

"focus all of her attention on having fun with her audience"

best advice a model will ever get.... just a suggestion that ties in with this, do not spam ur room so much with the in-house adbots that people cannot even CHAT in it... if evry word somebody types flies outta the chat right away due to tip menus and lovense timeouts there is literally no point in chatting in ur room

[yuu.design]

Originally Posted by LiLi

A complete in depth answer to that question would be too long, but I will give you 5 tips that will help her a lot.

1) Long streaming sessions. Tell her to aim to be on cam for 4 hours at a bare minimum and to aim for 7-8 at a a time. This is because of the way CB's positioning works. When 2 models have the same number of viewers the model who has been on longest will be listed first. So this will give her an edge to climb the pages.

2) The first week is critical, she will get the "new" tag and she will be brand new to anyone waltzing in. She has to cam as much as she possibly can that first week, if she can pull all nighters, she should. This is especially so if she has a personality and a modicum of charisma. Personality camgirls are the most successful so the first couple of weeks she will hook the people who will be the building blocks of her incipient community. She shouldn't waste it.

3) If money is not a pressing issue, tell her not to get naked the first week and to focus all of her attention on having fun with her audience. No private shows, no tip menus, she needs to create a sense of expectation and intrigue before she should do anything else. Tell her to not even look at the tokens. She can do fun goals, but no nudity.

4) This ties in with (3) but she must not oversexualize herself. This is probably the biggest mistake new girls make. She is a person, not a niche or a fetish, she has to avoid branding herself after anything sexual. IE: avoid usenames like "BigBoobsCarla" or "TwerkingStacy" or "TightHoles". You attract the crowd you will then have to endure and it's best to aim for gentlemen and people who are there looking to be entertained not just a quick fap. They tip better, are more loyal and actually fun to interact with. All around better experience.

5) No PMs. No split camming. No phones on her desk. She is there to entertain and anything that distracts her from public chat must be kept shut tight.

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer i really appreciated it. I'll fwd it to the my friend

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Yeah but Chaturbate became so popular with the models because they are more liberal with their policies. It is definitely a "model friendly" platform which in a lot of ways is good.

But because of that it is harder to monitor and enforce the policies they do have.

All in my opinion of course.

Imagine a place where models and affiliate marketers actually worked together for a common goal. Both sides could make money hand over foot

cb IS popular because it is a very performer-friendly site, particularly when it comes to allowing links to OF, wishlists, insta, twitter, personal websites, etc, but I disagree with Lili and you that they're vigilant about removing the 'clear cookies/use new browser to make a new account' ish. I've read enough of the cb thread to know that this problem is pervasive and it does create tension between performers and affs. affs shouldn't have to monitor the site for what should be a blatant violation of both ethics and what I assume are site rules

Lili and I, we've both been on both sides so we know the drill, for a lot of performers they prob just see other top performers doing it and figure it must be ok (the 'ignorant' type Lili described). they are relatively new to the biz (cb tends to skew towards more youthful performers it seems) and don't understand the importance of affs who drive traffic to their rooms

if cb were to enforce one rule: do not use your profile to encourage existing clients to create new accounts then most of the animosity between affs and talent would disappear

affs and talent should work together, mos def each make more money that way. but cb isn't helping solve that one issue. that's on them. my rec on that would be to hook up with talent on twitter, with performers who don't pull that ish

I don't have a solution, I just think that ultimately it's up to cb to either solve the issue...or not

@Lili, I have a question for you if you don't mind that's not specifically cb-related:

I've helped several friends who have had incomes drastically impacted by covid (tourist town), both male and female set up cam profiles. all of them Black cuz I live in a Black country

none seem to really bank on cb. decent money, but not anything to write home about. in your experience (I haven't worked big box in over 14 years), what would you recommend as the best sites for Black performers? sm seems to be the best so far along with ttm, with cb good but not great for them. wondering if there are any I've missed in my recs on where to sign up?

not looking to make money off helping them sign up, just want to steer them to sites with the best chance of success

do you have any recs on that tip?

hope nothing I wrote above comes across as trashing cb, which is a great site, and that everyone is having a wicked night =)

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by LiLi

First is to understand the nature of the offense. There are three types of models stealing affiliate signups: the ignorant, the locusts, and sheep. The ignorant don't know what an affiliate is, they believe if they don't get the extra 20%, Chaturbate keeps it so in their minds they think "why let it go to waste?" there are also those who kinda know a little but don't understand the scope or the impact of what they are doing. This first group is the majority.

Then there are the locusts, the second group, these girls know perfectly well what they are doing and they don't care, they are willing to let the ship sink if that means they get a minimal advantage. It's like those piracy sites, exactly the same mechanic: neither cares what happens to the other side of the equation, they are willing to destroy an entire industry to keep themselves afloat, they have no qualms. These people will never change.

The third group is the sheep. These girls know what they are doing is wrong... and perhaps they didn't steal at first, they had their own reservations, but they see how many do it, maybe she has seen her own members switch affiliate accounts to support another model on the site and they figure "why should I be the only decent one here?" so they join the bad crowd.

What is the solution? First to know you will never change the locusts, they don't give a fuck and in those cases you do need to chase them if you want to stop them from doing this. CB support has been quite vigilant making sure models remove the "clear cookies" texts form their bios, but they can't do anything if the model approaches the member privately... say... on social media.. and asks them to signup with a new account. You need to be prepared to either fight them for it, or accept it as a part of the business.

But there IS something we can do about the ignorant and the sheep. We need to educate the ignorant so they understand what the importance of the affiliate maketers is and how stealing from them puts them off the site entirely. How, when in 2014 MFC got too big for it's britches and decided to cut the affiliate program off they went to the shitter and Chaturbate overtook them in less than a year, they haven't been able to recover from that poor business choice and probably never will. Traffic is what makes our work possible, and we don't get traffic without affiliates. When models cheat the affiliates they go advertise something else. And then models complain about a drop in traffic and difficulty earning what they used to. It is all interlinked!

And for the sheep I think shaming is the best tactic, but that would require to teach the ignorant and get a few of the big names all the other girls look up to in the wagon of "save the affiliates! fuck the cheaters!" which could be quite hard to do.

If you want a piece of advice: no industry is perfectly efficient and there are losses and problems with any job. You put up a supermarket and you will have people stealing shit all the time, what do you do? you should put up better security systems? yeah, will you make it your mission to curb robberies in the US just to save your supermaket? that's an impossible utopia. What you do is you try to secure your own business as best you can and take into account robberies as part of the expenses. Same thing here. There will be stealing, always... very little you can do. Blacklisting models who ask members to clear cookies from your whitelabel is like placing a security system on your supermarket. But what you really should do is figure out a way to make so many signups that if they steal a handful is not a big deal.

Personally, I think this is a very simple fix. CB just need to assign a unique userID to a user and their details - ie they will be using the same CC / address details etc etc etc

Remove the ability and the problem solves itself. This would not take much to flag in their db.

However I am not convinced that this problem is as prolific as some affiliates seem to think. Having spent a good amount of time going over my transaction stats for the last 9+years recently.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

but I disagree with Lili and you that they're vigilant about removing the 'clear cookies/use new browser to make a new account' ish.

I don't think I said they were vigilant about it in any way. I did say that it is hard, when you are that performer friendly to enforce stuff.

It is Chaturbate's job to enforce their rules and they could do a better job of it.

.

[ZTT]

I admire the willpower and staying power of the people in the CB stats gigathread, but ultimately the issue is: you're either making enough from a site or you're not. If not, it's just time to promote something else, but if you are, you're better off just accepting theft/occasional bad stats as a cost of doing business, rather than popping a vein over something you can't do anything to fix.

Only CB can fix this particular problem, by simply not allowing performers to use the affiliate program, whitelisting allowed links/URLs on profiles to a handful of social networks and banning anyone who tries to get around it. The fact that they don't do this should be a pretty big neon flashing sign that they don't care who they're paying 20% to as long as they're making money.

Affiliates need to do the same: either find a way to get CB to give a shit or stop taking years off your life worrying about what you maybe, possibly, might be losing, and spend that time and energy on what you're making and how to increase it (not necessarily with CB).

As for the cam models and affiliates getting along... LOL... cam models don't even get along with each other, and the same goes for affiliates, except when there's a common problem/scapegoat to gang up on. Everyone is in competition. Divided and ruled.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by georgeyw

However I am not convinced that this problem is as prolific as some affiliates seem to think. Having spent a good amount of time going over my transaction stats for the last 9+years recently.

It is a huge deal when it comes down to the "whales". The funny thing is I think this one "whale" I had was a whaler by trade. I had a guy that was from the other side of the world and would not buy tokens for mos on end but then would come back and for a few weeks to a month would spend thousands upon thousands on CB. This went on for 2 or 3 years and now I haven't seen him in 3+ years.

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by SBJ

It is a huge deal when it comes down to the "whales". The funny thing is I think this one "whale" I had was a whaler by trade. I had a guy that was from the other side of the world and would not buy tokens for mos on end but then would come back and for a few weeks to a month would spend thousands upon thousands on CB. This went on for 2 or 3 years and now I haven't seen him in 3+ years.

I don't doubt that it does occur, I just find it hard to believe that it is as prolific as some affiliates seem to believe.

When CB started pushing users back to affiliates that queried specific users, I went through my stats thoroughly to see if there were any patterns for users who had spent over a certain amount.

Mass drop offs, sudden stop in spending etc etc etc

Did not find any users worth querying, again that's not to say it does not occur, just not as frequently as is talked about here.

I did notice long term spending for the majority of the higher spenders.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by georgeyw

When CB started pushing users back to affiliates that queried specific users, I went through my stats thoroughly to see if there were any patterns for users who had spent over a certain amount.

wait what? so I could ask about this guy from the past to see if he did rejoin and get him back if he did?

[georgeyw]

Originally Posted by SBJ

wait what? so I could ask about this guy from the past to see if he did rejoin and get him back if he did?

This is what a few affiliates have said in the CB thread. I think the first user to successfully do it was MobileVRxxx (was back paid too IIRC) - they might chime in here.

[SBJ]

Originally Posted by georgeyw

This is what a few affiliates have said in the CB thread. I think the first user to successfully do it was MobileVRxxx (was back paid too IIRC) - they might chime in here.

well, that would be awesome if I could get back paid..

[PornDiscounts-V]

Originally Posted by LiLi

First is to understand the nature of the offense. There are three types of models stealing affiliate signups: the ignorant, the locusts, and sheep. The ignorant don't know what an affiliate is, they believe if they don't get the extra 20%, Chaturbate keeps it so in their minds they think "why let it go to waste?" there are also those who kinda know a little but don't understand the scope or the impact of what they are doing. This first group is the majority.

Then there are the locusts, the second group, these girls know perfectly well what they are doing and they don't care, they are willing to let the ship sink if that means they get a minimal advantage. It's like those piracy sites, exactly the same mechanic: neither cares what happens to the other side of the equation, they are willing to destroy an entire industry to keep themselves afloat, they have no qualms. These people will never change.

The third group is the sheep. These girls know what they are doing is wrong... and perhaps they didn't steal at first, they had their own reservations, but they see how many do it, maybe she has seen her own members switch affiliate accounts to support another model on the site and they figure "why should I be the only decent one here?" so they join the bad crowd.

What is the solution? First to know you will never change the locusts, they don't give a fuck and in those cases you do need to chase them if you want to stop them from doing this. CB support has been quite vigilant making sure models remove the "clear cookies" texts form their bios, but they can't do anything if the model approaches the member privately... say... on social media.. and asks them to signup with a new account. You need to be prepared to either fight them for it, or accept it as a part of the business.

But there IS something we can do about the ignorant and the sheep. We need to educate the ignorant so they understand what the importance of the affiliate maketers is and how stealing from them puts them off the site entirely. How, when in 2014 MFC got too big for it's britches and decided to cut the affiliate program off they went to the shitter and Chaturbate overtook them in less than a year, they haven't been able to recover from that poor business choice and probably never will. Traffic is what makes our work possible, and we don't get traffic without affiliates. When models cheat the affiliates they go advertise something else. And then models complain about a drop in traffic and difficulty earning what they used to. It is all interlinked!

And for the sheep I think shaming is the best tactic, but that would require to teach the ignorant and get a few of the big names all the other girls look up to in the wagon of "save the affiliates! fuck the cheaters!" which could be quite hard to do.

If you want a piece of advice: no industry is perfectly efficient and there are losses and problems with any job. You put up a supermarket and you will have people stealing shit all the time, what do you do? you should put up better security systems? yeah, will you make it your mission to curb robberies in the US just to save your supermaket? that's an impossible utopia. What you do is you try to secure your own business as best you can and take into account robberies as part of the expenses. Same thing here. There will be stealing, always... very little you can do. Blacklisting models who ask members to clear cookies from your whitelabel is like placing a security system on your supermarket. But what you really should do is figure out a way to make so many signups that if they steal a handful is not a big deal.

Well put in that last paragraph.

But I would say that the locusts are the most ignorant and the ignorant are just naïve.

Typical conversation with a locust:

Them: Fuck you and your DMCA bullshit! I am not writing all of that and you cannot have my address and my fucking name you sick fuck!!! Take my shit down now!!!!! I will sick my lawyer on your ass and he'll have your balls for lunch!!!

Me: Calm down. You didn't tell me anything that I can use to even look you up in my system. What is your username? Who do you work for?

Them: FUCK YOU!!! TAKE IT DOWN NOW! YOU HAVE 2 HOURS!

Me: Again, I don't know who you are. So give me your username.

Them: Who in the fuck do you think you are stealing my content? ASSHOLE! Take it down now!!!! You have one more hour. Then I OWN YOU!

Me: I'm just going to ignore you now. Bye!


++++++++++++++++++++++++

Another kind of locust:

Them: Hello, I own my content and you cannot steal it. Please remove it immediately. I am __Butter_Cup_Butterfly.

Me: Hello, I am an affiliate of Chaturbate. I send them traffic. People find you on my site and then follow links to your profile and join your fan club, tip you, etc. If you read your modeling agreement, you agreed that Chaturbate could use your likeness, images and stream for marketing purposes and that this extends to their affiliates as well. In your profile you have a little checkbox to "Appear on network sites" and you can uncheck it and you will stop showing up on my site(s). It even tells you, if you choose no you will get less traffic. This is because I am sending you fans, not taking them from you. I am like a newspaper boy on the corner selling more of your stories in the newspaper. Without us you will get half the traffic you normally get. Uncheck the box and hit up the support there asking to no longer be included in marketing materials.

Them: I don't need your help, shithead! I have fans all over the world! I have social media promotions of my own, you blood sucker! You get money for nothing. I do ALL OF THE WORK! So remove my profile from your site!

Me: It automatically disappears if you uncheck the box I told you about and as an extra precaution, ask them not to include you in marketing materials.

Them: I guess we will do this the hard way then. Expect a letter from my lawyer!


+++++++++++++++

In both cases, the letter never arrives.

In both cases, they are clueless as to why they have so many fans. Yes, they are good at all of the 1 - 5 tips you gave. But they also cannot get blood from a turnip. You cannot get a following without surfers I provide.

[The Porn Nerd]

Working with cam models is like herding cats.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by sarettah

Hello Lili,

Since you have expertise in camming and affiliate marketing, and seem to have direct contact with models, what would you recommend as the best way to get models to stop cheating the system by telling users to clear cookies and sign up under them.

I realize that the problem may not be as prevalent as it may sometimes seem but it is an issue. The current method of reporting models to Chaturbate and hoping the support takes action is quite cumbersome and frustrating. It is just whack a mole in the long run.

Most of us (I think) would rather not having to be reporting models. Nobody wants to feel like they are ratting somebody out. I think we would all like to send models traffic.

Some of us, if we are running an api loaded site, will just keep a filter list so when we learn of a model doing that we just make sure that none of our traffic goes directly to that model.

Personally, I would like to send as much traffic as I can to as many models as I can but I do want the credit for my efforts to go to me and not be diverted along the way.

So, as I said at the start, do you have any recommendations in this regard?

Thanks in advance.

.

Dude. You just took the words right out of my mouth.

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

cb IS popular because it is a very performer-friendly site, particularly when it comes to allowing links to OF, wishlists, insta, twitter, personal websites, etc, but I disagree with Lili and you that they're vigilant about removing the 'clear cookies/use new browser to make a new account' ish. I've read enough of the cb thread to know that this problem is pervasive and it does create tension between performers and affs. affs shouldn't have to monitor the site for what should be a blatant violation of both ethics and what I assume are site rules

Lili and I, we've both been on both sides so we know the drill, for a lot of performers they prob just see other top performers doing it and figure it must be ok (the 'ignorant' type Lili described). they are relatively new to the biz (cb tends to skew towards more youthful performers it seems) and don't understand the importance of affs who drive traffic to their rooms

if cb were to enforce one rule: do not use your profile to encourage existing clients to create new accounts then most of the animosity between affs and talent would disappear

affs and talent should work together, mos def each make more money that way. but cb isn't helping solve that one issue. that's on them. my rec on that would be to hook up with talent on twitter, with performers who don't pull that ish

I don't have a solution, I just think that ultimately it's up to cb to either solve the issue...or not

@Lili, I have a question for you if you don't mind that's not specifically cb-related:

I've helped several friends who have had incomes drastically impacted by covid (tourist town), both male and female set up cam profiles. all of them Black cuz I live in a Black country

none seem to really bank on cb. decent money, but not anything to write home about. in your experience (I haven't worked big box in over 14 years), what would you recommend as the best sites for Black performers? sm seems to be the best so far along with ttm, with cb good but not great for them. wondering if there are any I've missed in my recs on where to sign up?

not looking to make money off helping them sign up, just want to steer them to sites with the best chance of success

do you have any recs on that tip?

hope nothing I wrote above comes across as trashing cb, which is a great site, and that everyone is having a wicked night =)

To answer your question, I don't believe there is a site that is better for black performers specifically... It used to be really easy for good black performers to get notoriety because there were so few black girls on camsites, but this has changed somewhat since Colombia learned about camsites and opened 293823948 studios, so now it's somewhat harder. Still, all the same rules apply to black performers and if they are hardworking and committed they are as successful as white girls. The biggest battle they face is against their own feelings of insecurity, for some reason many black models I have talked to really believe they don't have the same opportunities as white or latinas, and they discourage themselves from working because they don't believe they can be successful. Tell your black performer friends to check out the most salient black performers from MFC and CB to get a glimpse of what can be accomplished.

Now, about the rest of your post... I want to clarify a few things..

1) CB is not perceived as a model friendly site by all models, in fact, most models consider them one of the worst sites to work on in terms of relationship with support. Models don't feel CB appreciates them for multiple reasons.. for example, they are ban-happy and will ban first, ask later sometimes with ludicrous reasons like "you look underage" even though they have your ID and you have been working their site for 6 years. Some models rely on CB income for their living and getting CB to respond and unban them when they get a BS ban like this can take weeks... then they struggle to pay rent (b) when there's issues with studios, or users, or affiliates they tend to side with the other parties, I know the perception from the POV of affiliates is different and perhaps the feeling here is they side with models because they allow them to use the affiliate program, but the perception among models is they always get the shit end of the stick.. and they are sometimes right... (c) They are probably the only camsite that charges models for chargebacks. Also: they used to be stupid strict up until like 2015 about linking anywhere. Model's couldn't even link their twitter accounts in their bios. It's only after winning and becoming the most popular site they have gotten more lax about it and allowed models to link to their social media and other sites. My opinion on the subject of the treatment CB gives models or affiliates for that matter, is different though, I do not envy Chaturbate support one bit, it must be really had to be at the epicenter of the tensions between 4 different groups of interest and not embarass yourself... they make a lot of mistakes but they try not to betray any group, maybe they lack a bit of a spine, but it's a very difficult balancing act.

2) You are right about them not being vigilant, I think I used the wrong word. What I meant is when people report a model for "clear cookies" in their bios they do issue warnings to the models and they do so manually. I wonder if they could put up a system to filter texts in bios.. like the do with raffle keywords, maybe they already do, it has been a long time since I saw anything like that in a bio. Also, the reason you friend got banned after you showed up on his stream is because for a while they had facial recognition software and would ban when a second face appeared on stream if there wasn't any other verified performers in the account. I once got banned for showing a video with a face on my phone screen. I think they might have done away with it since, but again, I dont know.

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by ZTT

Only CB can fix this particular problem, by simply not allowing performers to use the affiliate program, whitelisting allowed links/URLs on profiles to a handful of social networks and banning anyone who tries to get around it. The fact that they don't do this should be a pretty big neon flashing sign that they don't care who they're paying 20% to as long as they're making money.

Here is why they don't ban models from the program and why it might not be the best solution to the problem: you get a much higher conversion rate when you have performers pushing the audience to sign up than when you leave it to happenstance. Models will direct members to sign up when they have some skin in the game. If you take them off the affiliate program they will not be interested in pushing anyone to sign up, then the conversion rate drops for everyone across the board. They need to put it in their bios so models mention it when they stream, that's when it's most effective. You could force them to take the links off their bios, sure, but they will continue to lure their own whales to signup with their affiliate link offsite. You could ban them from the program altogether, but how can you enforce it? They can simply open a normal user account and use that affiliate link instead.

There is no solution to this issue. It comes with the game. Affiliates need to understand while on paper it's "lifetime revshare" in the concrete practical reality there are limits when a member becomes too invested in a specific model simply because of the nature of the relationship, I have seen members tell support they want their % to go to the model they support or they will start supporting them through cashapp and onlyfans instead. This after learning from the model about the affiliate cut.

And I am going to break a plate for the locusts here by trying to show you the other side of the coin... When I worked on MFC I had a "whale" who spent around $200k in two years. Keeping him happy was time consuming and unnerving, would pester me offsite to talk my ear off about his psychotic mother and his fox terrier and expected me to counsel him, would take over my time, and wouldn't respect any boundaries. I didn't get rid of the guy (I should have) because I was inexperienced and he was the source of 30% of my income, but the fact remains I earned about $100k after MFC's cut and did intensive labor to get that. And out there, in the world, there was some dude who made $30k in the same amount of time while eating cheetos in his slacks... all he did was provide a popup to click on and wash his hands. I would have very gladly given up $70k if it meant I could skip his long winded story about his uncle's funeral and his dog getting irritable bowel syndrome. So to some models the fact that they have to put up with certain members every day makes them feel justified in stealing the affiliate's cut. They don't see the daily work behind the affiliate's traffic and they believe it is simply putting up a pop-up and going to bed.

In my opinion Chaturbate should explain very clearly to models what the role of the affiliate is and why it is important. They need to drill the idea into their heads so they understand why it is wrong to steal it by instructing existing members to create new accounts. Shaming tactics also work, we got people to stop smoking by teaching them why it is wrong and shaming those who didn't quit, it's a powerful tool but it has to be enforced from the top.

[Fenris Wolf]

Good thread. I'll just leave my mark here so I can easily find my way back.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally Posted by LiLi

And out there, in the world, there was some dude who made $30k in the same amount of time while eating cheetos in his slacks... all he did was provide a popup to click on and wash his hands.

This is why helping new models understand the way things works when they signup for a program would be beneficial.

The person who sent that click likely spent years of their life building a site that was trusted enough by their customer that the customer decided to click to a cam and spend all of that money. While the model is talking to that customer, the webmaster is working to send them future customers. The models are doing hard work, but so are the people who generates leads.

The models understand that they need future leads. Cam sites should help them understand that if they cut out lead generators, their current customer could be their last.

[ZTT]

Originally Posted by LiLi

If you take them off the affiliate program they will not be interested in pushing anyone to sign up

So pvts and tips aren't motivation any more? When did models become so lazy and unmotivated? In the old days, and probably still on some/most sites, there are no affiliate incentives for models. The incentive to get a signup is for a guy to spend money on you.

They need to put it in their bios so models mention it when they stream, that's when it's most effective.

There's a sign up button on every page which they can mention when they stream. There's absolutely no reason at all for a performer to be credited for bringing someone to the site who is already on the site.

You could force them to take the links off their bios, sure, but they will continue to lure their own whales to signup with their affiliate link offsite.

Yes, and there's zero problem with that, at least IMO, because then they're just acting like affiliates, bringing new traffic to CB, and deserve the credit for that traffic. And I'd certainly much rather that than scumbag affiliates (of which there are probably a few here) making fake model profiles on social media.

I have seen members tell support they want their % to go to the model they support or they will start supporting them through cashapp and onlyfans instead. This after learning from the model about the affiliate cut.

A performer privately contacting a member or the member wanting to help out the performer is a different issue (from stuff on the bio), and one reason I think affiliates shouldn't turn themselves grey over this. The one problem with any solution is that performers can always just PM someone and ask them to do it. There's no way to even know that is happening, let alone stop it.

They don't see the daily work behind the affiliate's traffic and they believe it is simply putting up a pop-up and going to bed.

Exactly. If they thought it was easy they'd be doing it. But they know it's a lot easier (for them) sitting on their ass staring at their mobile all day, relying on their good luck in the genetic lottery.

And that cheeto guy (I thought you had veered off to talk about Trump for a second) is (as you know) the reason you made $100k. Assuming he exists. Not everyone reaches CB through a referral link.

BTW, if you would genuinely prefer $30k to $100k just to avoid talking to that guy you'd have stopped talking to him when you made $30k.

[trevesty]

Originally Posted by ZTT

I admire the willpower and staying power of the people in the CB stats gigathread, but ultimately the issue is: you're either making enough from a site or you're not. If not, it's just time to promote something else, but if you are, you're better off just accepting theft/occasional bad stats as a cost of doing business, rather than popping a vein over something you can't do anything to fix.

Only CB can fix this particular problem, by simply not allowing performers to use the affiliate program, whitelisting allowed links/URLs on profiles to a handful of social networks and banning anyone who tries to get around it. The fact that they don't do this should be a pretty big neon flashing sign that they don't care who they're paying 20% to as long as they're making money.

Affiliates need to do the same: either find a way to get CB to give a shit or stop taking years off your life worrying about what you maybe, possibly, might be losing, and spend that time and energy on what you're making and how to increase it (not necessarily with CB).

As for the cam models and affiliates getting along... LOL... cam models don't even get along with each other, and the same goes for affiliates, except when there's a common problem/scapegoat to gang up on. Everyone is in competition. Divided and ruled.

Pretty much how I see it.

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by ZTT

So pvts and tips aren't motivation any more? When did models become so lazy and unmotivated? In the old days, and probably still on some/most sites, there are no affiliate incentives for models. The incentive to get a signup is for a guy to spend money on you.

I don't think you understand the work that goes behind that and how time consuming it is to focus your attention on anonymous users new to the site who don't have any inclination on signing up and convert them into spenders. It can be done but it's time consuming and you can only advertise one thing at a time when you are streaming. The time you spend explaining how to sign up, why to do it, what the benefits of becoming a member is, the payment methods, how it will not show up as "chaturbate" on their bank statement, etc... is time you aren't earning any money. What is worse.. it's time you are losing momentum on your show and many members leave your room because listening to that speech is boring for existing members. So if you want models to take anonymous users by the hand and get them to signup you better offer them an incentive to do so.

Without an incentive models wont waste their time on anons when they can focus all of your attention on members that already have tokens in their accounts ready to spend them.

Originally Posted by ZTT

There's a sign up button on every page which they can mention when they stream. There's absolutely no reason at all for a performer to be credited for bringing someone to the site who is already on the site.

Again, there is a button there but why would they mention that button when they already have 50 users with tokens in the room waiting for a reason to spend them? Unless you are a model on page 12 struggling to get any members in your room and you are keeping your hope alive that one of those anonymous users will one day spend on you... there is absolutely 0 incentive for a model to focus on that when she can do a ticket show or build up momentum towards a goal.

Originally Posted by ZTT

Yes, and there's zero problem with that, at least IMO, because then they're just acting like affiliates, bringing new traffic to CB, and deserve the credit for that traffic. And I'd certainly much rather that than scumbag affiliates (of which there are probably a few here) making fake model profiles on social media.

Seems like my point was lost in the translation... what I meant is.. ban models from having their affiliate link in their bios and they will then promote their social media. Her CB whale follows her on say, twitter, and she asks him there to clear cookies and sign up again under her affiliate link. What is CB going to do about that? It's impossible to police. Then you will see a hit on the conversion rate across the board when models no longer work on getting people to sign up AND YET continue to lose the whales because they will leak them offsite. You could then ask CB to ban models from linking their social media in their bios. Models will not like that at all and some will even move to another camsite with a shitty affiliate program that shaves your earnings, so the quality of CB models suffers and your conversions do too. And the ones who stay? well.. ardent whales will still find them using google like they do on Streamate. There's simply no way to win this for the affiliate.. once a member is too invested in a single model your battle is lost, he has a loyalty and he will follow the model anywhere. What the smart affiliate does is focus his attention on getting a ton of small to medium accounts. Why? for multiple reasons... because your income is much more stable, losing a member is irrelevant, because people who spend in moderation have a sustainable habit vs whales who burn through 5 credit cards in 5 months never to be seen again. It's the same with tippers, actually... much better to have many tippers who know how to spend within their means than to have a whale

Originally Posted by ZTT

A performer privately contacting a member or the member wanting to help out the performer is a different issue (from stuff on the bio), and one reason I think affiliates shouldn't turn themselves grey over this.

Here is your mistake. Models can't turn members en masse. Promoting the link in their bios will credit the account to the original affiliate because the cookie doesn't expire, so the only accounts they get credited for are those without a cookie already in their browser. You should run tests, I have: clear your cookies, click on your own affiliate link, then go to a model's bio and click on her signup link and signup then, you will see the signup credited to yourself. The problem isn't the link in their bios, even if they say to clear cookies.. only someone extremely invested in the relationship with the model will take the extra steps to clear cookies before signing up, but like I said, CB is handling those texts in bios, I haven't seen "clear cookies" or "use a different browser" in over a year. The only members models steal are whales and those who are super invested in her. Which is a tiny percentage but in some cases the biggest spenders.

Originally Posted by ZTT

Exactly. If they thought it was easy they'd be doing it. But they know it's a lot easier (for them) sitting on their ass staring at their mobile all day, relying on their good luck in the genetic lottery.

Sounds to me like you have 0 clue what the actual work of a camgirl is. Super gorgeous models who stare at their mobile all day are sitting pretty on page 12. Good luck might help you the first day, but the vast majority of models will not last 3 months. That's because this job takes skill, talent, commitment, ambition, grit, and a lot of wit. You are just as ignorant about the model side as the ignorant models are of the affiliate's work. I suggest you take the time to see this issue from more than your own perspective, it will make you make smarter choices in business to know how models work and what the landscape is after signing up for your accounts.

Originally Posted by ZTT

And that cheeto guy (I thought you had veered off to talk about Trump for a second) is (as you know) the reason you made $100k. Assuming he exists. Not everyone reaches CB through a referral link.

Here you make the same mistake... consider this job is done by 2 parties. The affiliate gets the member to the door, but the model gets the member to spend. It is a collaboration. I wouldn't have made money off that guy if he didn't reach the door to begin with... but the affiliate wouldnt have made his cut if I hadn't endured his annoying bullshit for 2 years finding ways to keep it interesting for him. So... you see.. it is better when each party has dignity and is valued for their key part in the process.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by ZTT

BTW, if you would genuinely prefer $30k to $100k just to avoid talking to that guy you'd have stopped talking to him when you made $30k.

I should have, but I didn't because the way these whales operate... I can explain in more depth how these whales wreck a model's room if anyone is interested.. but this reply is getting quite lengthy

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by Mr.Fiction

This is why helping new models understand the way things works when they signup for a program would be beneficial.

The person who sent that click likely spent years of their life building a site that was trusted enough by their customer that the customer decided to click to a cam and spend all of that money. While the model is talking to that customer, the webmaster is working to send them future customers. The models are doing hard work, but so are the people who generates leads.

The models understand that they need future leads. Cam sites should help them understand that if they cut out lead generators, their current customer could be their last.

Absolutely. I completely agree with this. I dont think anyone explains this to models and unless they have an affiliate marketing background they have no idea this is going on behind the scenes. Chaturbate should at the very least make a guide for models on this topic

[Sergio]

Hi Lili!

Is it possible to become famous cam model from zero for a person who have been never did this before?

[CamgirlCloud]

@Lili - does your Chaturbate bio design look astonishing?
Usually webcam performers don't give much interest to that because its not their job to learn, know, adapt and apply marketing strategies and by all means, in online environment, image (branding) is a powerful calling card (not to mention the other benefits of having a profile page which works for you)

[ZTT]

Originally Posted by LiLi

What is worse.. it's time you are losing momentum on your show and many members leave your room because listening to that speech is boring for existing members. So if you want models to take anonymous users by the hand and get them to signup you better offer them an incentive to do so.

So it's not worth boring members to attract a new fan who might spend $100k on you, which is why you are there, but fuck them if you can possibly snag a 20% affiliate signup?

It's impossible to police.

There are plenty of ways you're not allowed to promote CB. How do you think they police those? Stasi informers have nothing on rival affiliates.

Sounds to me like you have 0 clue what the actual work of a camgirl is. Super gorgeous models who stare at their mobile all day are sitting pretty on page 12.

There are about 60 pages of female performers on CB, which means 4 out of every 5 female performers are on page 13 or higher, so it's you who has zero clue what the actual work of a camgirl is, beyond your own little fairytale ivory tower.

[emmasexytime]

When will cb be like mfc that don't offer an affiliate program for models?

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by Sergio

Hi Lili!

Is it possible to become famous cam model from zero for a person who have been never did this before?

What do you mean by “famous”? You mean being a front page model? Winning awards? Being recognised on the streets of your city? Being invited to a TV show or radio show as a spokesperson? It is surely possible to join today and make some waves on whatever site you choose. All it takes is having a fun personality and a distinctive look. What happens after depends entirely on the model and her capacity to keep the buzz going

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by CamgirlCloud

@Lili - does your Chaturbate bio design look astonishing?
Usually webcam performers don't give much interest to that because its not their job to learn, know, adapt and apply marketing strategies and by all means, in online environment, image (branding) is a powerful calling card (not to mention the other benefits of having a profile page which works for you)

Nope. My bio is by design text-only. Many reasons for it, but mainly it’s the fact that it loads without an issue on any browser and any device and I don’t have to go through 5000 steps when I want to update it. In general bios are mostly irrelevant since you are quite literally there live so they are already seeing who you are and what you do, and when you aren’t there nobody is clicking on your bio that’s not been to your room before. It’s mainly a place to keep relevant information and links, but not something that is going to contribute in any significant way to your show or your success

[LiLi]

Originally Posted by emmasexytime

When will cb be like mfc that don't offer an affiliate program for models?

The day it wants to fail like MFC.

Even MFC bought Onlyfans, a site that is 100% driven by model traffic and the models get the full affiliate cut since they get a 80% payout and look at how well Onlyfans is doing. Cutting models out of the equation when some of them have built massive followings on socials is shooting themselves on the foot.

[Phoenix]

no pics...not reading

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

no pics...not reading

. . .

[nikki99]

2 webcammers pages