Educational What is considered legal documentation these days?

[amacontent]

One lawyer said this...
Joe, I appreciate what you’re saying about the 2257 laws, but I’m a lawyer, so I know that 99% of what the tube sites are now asking for has nothing to do with the law, but has everything to do with keeping credit card processing. the 2257 agreement as signed by a performer or an extra or crew implies release, therefore if it is accompanied by a matching ID, then it is deemed acceptable under the law during a 2257 inspection by the FBI.

Yes. No ?

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by amacontent

One lawyer said this...
Joe, I appreciate what you’re saying about the 2257 laws, but I’m a lawyer, so I know that 99% of what the tube sites are now asking for has nothing to do with the law, but has everything to do with keeping credit card processing. the 2257 agreement as signed by a performer or an extra or crew implies release, therefore if it is accompanied by a matching ID, then it is deemed acceptable under the law during a 2257 inspection by the FBI.

Yes. No ?

Whatever documents you get, back it up by filming the model agreeing to the shoot. Also having witnesses too if you can.

Ideally if they bring a husband or boyfriend to the shoot have them also confirm everything.

[amacontent]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Whatever documents you get, back it up by filming the model agreeing to the shoot. Also having witnesses too if you can.

Ideally if they bring a husband or boyfriend to the shoot have them also confirm everything.

Excellent point but what about purchased content where that idea doesnt exist. Still same question.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by amacontent

Excellent point but what about purchased content where that idea doesnt exist. Still same question.

I read your first post, and I am probably a bit thick as I do not fully understand what you are asking.

If you are asking what docs you may need for porntubes, then they seem to in some cases at least wanting models top sign there own custom contracts and do a custom vid to cover there backs. And I presume they will go the same way onlyfans type sites go for getting models details.

For somone shooting content to sell on, this may be a problem if people want it for a tube site or indeed an onlyfans site. However they may as well shoot there own content.

On the other hand you probably as a content seller want your content on tube sites becase others may not buy it for there sites if it is free on tube sites.

But as I say I am too thick to understand what you were asking at the top of this thread.

PS.

On a side note, I often wonder how content sellers in the UK can sell content due to data protection laws, where selling data becomes very difficult.

[amacontent]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I read your first post, and I am probably a bit thick as I do not fully understand what you are asking.

If you are asking what docs you may need for porntubes, then they seem to in some cases at least wanting models top sign there own custom contracts and do a custom vid to cover there backs. And I presume they will go the same way onlyfans type sites go for getting models details.

For somone shooting content to sell on, this may be a problem if people want it for a tube site or indeed an onlyfans site. However they may as well shoot there own content.

On the other hand you probably as a content seller want your content on tube sites becase others may not buy it for there sites if it is free on tube sites.

But as I say I am too thick to understand what you were asking at the top of this thread.

PS.

On a side note, I often wonder how content sellers in the UK can sell content due to data protection laws, where selling data becomes very difficult.

Not saying you thick ....simply put is a 2257 form acceptable as a model release. I personally thing a 2257 form is model age verification only.

[plsureking]

i think you just walk over the border and they call you in 90 days.

#

[Fenris Wolf]

License agreements, model releases, work for hire contracts are all business agreements that you may have either with the model directly or with a studio to prove right of use.

2257 documents are record compliance documents needed to abide by federal laws.

They each define separate legalities. Having one doesn't mean you have compliance with the other. Over the years I have seen multiple contracts that incorporate the two together, when in fact they should be separate documents and should be maintained that way.

If all you have are 2257 docs then, in GFY terms, you're shit out of luck.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer so use at your own risk.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by amacontent

Not saying you thick ....simply put is a 2257 form acceptable as a model release. I personally thing a 2257 form is model age verification only.

Hi

Sorry I was not having a go at you, but sometimes I am a bit thick and do not fully understand what I read. I like to be honest and admit i can be a bit thick at times.

The problem is that these days sites seem to want you to fill in there documents. In fact I take 2 model release forms to shoots and ask the models to sign all three to covered my back.

BUT

My advice to people is think not what you need today, but what you may need in a few years. By this, I suspect as time goes on they may bring in the need for you to get more id or evidence a model gave consent.

Also, consider not just the usa on laws but other countries too. You may find the EU starts demanding certain docs and so on.

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Ideally if they bring a husband or boyfriend to the shoot have them also confirm everything.

that's the stupidest thing ever

1) why a women need a man to verify her consent on film? women have their own minds ya know

2) she could say later that hubby/bf coerced or forced her into it. very rare, but that has happened in a (very) few public cases

you haven't shot porn in a long minute have you? yt vids got you all engrossed? enjoy your pastime but don't pretend to be in the biz


@AMA I'm guessing this has to do with older content on clips sites? seems like a lot of legit adult is on lockdown these days, esp due to the last few years of regs in the US

short answer: their sites, their rules. I got rejected from a site cuz a scanned, colour notarized copy of my passport was not ok. no, it had to be a pic taken with my cam

lol, for real that's so much more legit considering they also needed a selfie of me holding it, which I provided. totally cloned myself for that selfie shot

then before providing a cam pic of my passport I got a message that they wanted me to re-apply and answer a zillion questions again as part of sign up, and upload pics to get approved, again. maybe? if I get around to it


also another site asking me to hold a newspaper beside my face along with my ID for 're-verification'. was super special. another site I don't work anymore, I did for a decade w/o issue. now my obviously native JA IP is a problem? when Belize and TCI were not? c'mon. total bullshit, see below:


co's are going overboard afraid of being 'non-compliant'. it's annoying as fuck but just current climate. I don't think right now legal terminology plays a decisive role in company decisions

I could be wrong, just what I'm seeing have and experienced

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

that's the stupidest thing ever

1) why a women need a man to verify her consent on film? women have their own minds ya know

2) she could say later that hubby/bf coerced or forced her into it. very rare, but that has happened in a (very) few public cases

you haven't shot porn in a long minute have you? yt vids got you all engrossed? enjoy your pastime but don't pretend to be in the biz


@AMA I'm guessing this has to do with older content on clips sites? seems like a lot of legit adult is on lockdown these days, esp due to the last few years of regs in the US

short answer: their sites, their rules. I got rejected from a site cuz a scanned, colour notarized copy of my passport was not ok. no, it had to be a pic taken with my cam

lol, for real that's so much more legit considering they also needed a selfie of me holding it, which I provided. totally cloned myself for that selfie shot

then before providing a cam pic of my passport I got a message that they wanted me to re-apply and answer a zillion questions again as part of sign up, and upload pics to get approved, again. maybe? if I get around to it


also another site asking me to hold a newspaper beside my face along with my ID for 're-verification'. was super special. another site I don't work anymore, I did for a decade w/o issue. now my obviously native JA IP is a problem? when Belize and TCI were not? c'mon. total bullshit, see below:


co's are going overboard afraid of being 'non-compliant'. it's annoying as fuck but just current climate. I don't think right now legal terminology plays a decisive role in company decisions

I could be wrong, just what I'm seeing have and experienced

1. Not sure what 'yt vids got you all engrossed' means to be honest.

2. Having a witness such as a husband or boyfriend or indeed somone they know sign a form to say they witnessed the model giving consent is rather useful. In the same way if a car ran into your car, having other witnesses is a huge help. Or indeed any crime having a witness is a help.

I stated a boyfriend or husband as if a model brings a friend to a shoot often it is a boyfriend or husband.

If years later the model states she did not sign the model release and tries to take you to court, not only would you have her model release but a form signed by her husband or boyfriend making any claims against you much harder.

Indeed often a model release will have a section for a witness as well as id numbers for passport and driving licence if used as evidence of age.

As for '2) she could say later that hubby/bf coerced or forced her into it. very rare, but that has happened in a (very) few public cases' it is why recording them on film stating they give consent makes this harder.

Under your logic one could dismiss any witness to any crime by claiming the witnesses were coerced into giving evidence.

Your statement suggests that my claim was that women need men to give them consent, however this would apply to male models too, where I would still state a witness statement is of help if possible.

Indeed as a side note I would suggest keeping a copy of emails and communications you have with a model. This was handy not so long ago when a model tried to get cash from me by claiming that she had not agreed to vid. I had kept a screenshot of the communications where she not only agreed to vid but told me of how she loves vid. She was removed from the model site and apparently had done the same to other people.

[amacontent]

All good points but is a 2257 document acceptable as a model release. Wheres Porn Law lol.

[Fenris Wolf]

Originally Posted by amacontent

All good points but is a 2257 document acceptable as a model release. Wheres Porn Law lol.

No it's not.

[marcop]

Originally Posted by amacontent

All good points but is a 2257 document acceptable as a model release. Wheres Porn Law lol.

I would say it isn't. A model release says the model agrees to allow the producer to use the stills/video however the producer wants, in return for some consideration (usually money). The 2257 doc attests that the model's documents were inspected per 2257 law.


Also, DVTimes wrote: "Ideally if they bring a husband or boyfriend to the shoot have them also confirm everything." I never allowed husbands or bf's to be on set during a shoot--that's asking for trouble. Once the guy had brought the girl's bag (lol) to the dressing room, I'd tell them to leave.

For one thing, if the couple had been arguing they'd bring their dispute with them and possibly--probably--fuck up my shoot. For another, the girl might be unwilling to show too much pleasure or enthusiasm during the scene while her guy is there. Also, imho, the fucker should be gainfully employed and be working somewhere, not lounging on my set.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by amacontent

All good points but is a 2257 document acceptable as a model release. Wheres Porn Law lol.

No. As I used to shoot in the UK well before I shot (or sold content too) the USA, a model release was a legal document, where the model signs away all rights to the content, as well as equally assigning them to you, for to use the content as you wish...

After some time, 2257 came in... It was simply EXTRA PROOF as to the identity of the model. That document was necessary to sell the content to the USA...

I eventually used a 'mixture' of the 2 - A model release that also contained the 2257 info as well. I never had any trouble with that document in the UK or the USA... But I never needed the 2257 part, away from the USA. So I just used that one and covered my ass.

Here is my 2257 compliant model release that I used for many years: https://leocaprice.com/docs/adult-model-release.doc

So TL:DR

A model release is the release - The 2257 is additional info required by american law

[amacontent]

Thankyou guys

[SpicyM]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Ideally if they bring a husband or boyfriend to the shoot have them also confirm everything.

Yeah, husband's consent is the most important...

[amacontent]

Originally Posted by SpicyM

Yeah, husband's consent is the most important...

Well i NEVER let spouses on set. Model can just leave if they dont like it

[SpicyM]

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

that's the stupidest thing ever

He is an idiot. Having anyone related to the model on shoot is stupid for many reasons. If you ever need a witness for anything, you need a person that is on YOUR side, not someone that is emotionally connected to the model.

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

2) she could say later that hubby/bf coerced or forced her into it. very rare, but that has happened in a (very) few public cases

That's actually frequent. There are lots of guys that have this fantasy of watching their GF get fucked by someone else or shoot porn. If she is financially dependent on him, it's very easy to see coercion in such a case. Having such a dude on set means nothing but trouble. I would never let anyone that isn't part of the crew and doesn't take part in the filming to be present at the place.

[CurrentlySober]

I was taking some pics of a new gal once at my studios, at the request of an industry colleague. He asked if I had a few moments to spare, could I grab some 'Pretty Girls' of her in a nurses uniform, on my hospital set... I said sure, why not?

Girls rocks up couple of hours later, comes into my office. I ask her if she's happy for me to do as asked (Just Striptrease Photos - Not Sex with me or anything like that, and not even video - Just stills)

We leave my office to start off down the corridor towards the hospital set, and I realise we are not alone - We have been joined by her BF who was waiting outside in the corridor. I'm not exactly happy about this, but its not really 'my' shoot, & I'm trying to help someone else out, and its just a few pics with my canon D20 & speedlight, which were back then, 'State Of The Art'...

I take them into wardrobe (Just across from the set) get her to choose an outfit, and explain to the BF exactly what's about to happen, including the no video / no sex part. I ask him if he's happy, he says fine. One thing though I tell him - I need you to stay in Wardrobe. We wont be far, but I just wanna get this over and done asap - I'm kinda busy... OK?

Yes, thats OK - Thanks for doing it he says... We leave him in wardrobe and walk of of 50 paces round the corner to the set. She stands infront of the desk, and I fire off the camera multiple times at her just stood there, telling her she looks great etc (which was a thing I would do to relax the model) then I say, OK, unbutton a button or two... She does, and she's looking good, and you can tell she's relaxing into it as a her bras on display....

Well, the set isn't the biggest set in the world, and unless you are shooting head on, it soon stops looking like a real hospital room, so I couldn't really shoot her from the left or the right, & so I take a couple of steps backwards into the doorway to get a wider shot...

Next thing I know, I'm falling backwards and smashing my head into a wall, and the last thing I see is my prized camera & flash flying freely up into the air above me!

BF was so desperate to watch, he had crawled on his belly, silently like a snake along the floor, and was laying across the doorway!

Needless to say, that was the last time ANYONE came on one of my sets that didn't work for me, or wasn't working as a model for me...

Anyhoo. no big punchline - Camera was covered by the studio insurance, so mild inconvenience and a sore head, but a big lesson learnt!

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by CurrentlySober

So TL:DR

A model release is the release - The 2257 is additional info required by american law

TO CLARIFY:

I have since learnt that the 2257 needs to be a SEPERATE DOCUMENT in order to comply fully with US Law. That said though, my answer above was as a NON AMERICAN, complying anyway, in order to comply with a law I didn't legally need to comply with.

[Huggles]

Originally Posted by SpicyM

He is an idiot. Having anyone related to the model on shoot is stupid for many reasons. If you ever need a witness for anything, you need a person that is on YOUR side, not someone that is emotionally connected to the model.

Yeah that's nuts... could quickly turn into two people's word against yours...

[AdultB2B]

Joe, I saw your post on XBIZ.net as well.

The only opinion on this that matters is that of your attorney.

If you need a referral, reach out to me directly please.

Bruce

[amacontent]

Originally Posted by AdultB2B

Joe, I saw your post on XBIZ.net as well.

The only opinion on this that matters is that of your attorney.

If you need a referral, reach out to me directly please.

Bruce

It actually not my attorney. I bought a few handjob scenes, not many , but when i ngot docs there was only IDs and 2257 page. I said I need model releases and he said his lawyer said mrs are considered model releases.