Montana Supreme Court: Cursing in public not protected free speech

[Mr.Fiction]

The 5-2 ruling Thursday said such unprovoked utterances are not protected by the constitutional right to free speech. Any obscene language likely to provoke violence can bring an arrest for disorderly conduct, the court held.

In October 2000, Malachi Robinson swore loudly at Missoula County Deputy David McGinnis, who was parked in his squad car, calling him a "(expletive) pig," according to court documents.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ghting_words_1

What a bunch of fucking pigs on the Montana Supreme Court. I guess the U.S. Constitution doesn't mean anything to them. What part of this don't they understand:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I hope this case is appealed and overturned.

[eroswebmaster]

Take it all the way to the real supreme court.

[Gemini]

Same thing happened in Michigan I think it was. The guy did time and a fine for cussing. You only have the rights up to where someone elses rights are and no further. It'll stand.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally posted by Gemini
Same thing happened in Michigan I think it was. The guy did time and a fine for cussing. You only have the rights up to where someone elses rights are and no further. It'll stand.

You have no right to not be offended.

In Europe some countries have laws against certain "hate speech" and political parties like the Nazi party, because they offend a lot of people. That is not true freedom. When the government starts telling you what you can and cannot say and think, then you are not living in a truly free society.

Saying the words "fuck you" doesn't hurt anyone.

Imagine you applied the same logic to the internet. It's fucking ridiculous and it goes against the U.S. Constitution.

[[Brian]]

Not much reason to curse in Montana .. except to say "Where the fuck is everyone??"

[JDog]

But there is nothing illegal with saying fuck, shit, asshole, etc, etc... It's a fucking word, I'd love to see them try and arrest me for cussing!

jDoG

[andi_germany]

The US is weird sometime. If you call someone a pig it is slander and has nothing to do with free speech. Only the US can amplify a small slander case to a free speech issue.

[KRL]

I really don't like when people curse loudly in public especially in the presence of little kids.

When I'm out with my littly guy and some punks start swearing loudly, I tell them with a stern look "Watch your mouth, there's a little kid here", which 9 times out of 10 shuts them up instantly followed by an apology to me.

I've only ever had one punk smart ass back to me and not only did he tell me to go fuck myself, he included my kid too. So of course that wise guy I grabbed tightly by the back of his shirt collar, which instantly scared the shit out of him I guess cause I have that Tony Soprano look, and he meekly walked as I took him out of the store and told him not to come back in till I left.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by Gemini
Same thing happened in Michigan I think it was. The guy did time and a fine for cussing. You only have the rights up to where someone elses rights are and no further. It'll stand.

How is this other person's rights being violated?

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by KRL
I really don't like when people curse loudly in public especially in the presence of little kids.

When I'm out with my littly guy and some punks start swearing loudly, I tell them with a stern look "Watch your mouth, there's a little kid here", which 9 times out of 10 shuts them up instantly followed by an apology to me.

I've only ever had one punk smart ass back to me and not only did he tell me to go fuck myself, he included my kid too. So of course that wise guy I grabbed tightly by the back of his shirt collar, which instantly scared the shit out of him I guess cause I have that Tony Soprano look, and he meekly walked as I took him out of the store and told him not to come back in till I left.

and the only one who committed a real crime was....drum roll please...YOU!

[JDog]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster


How is this other person's rights being violated?

That's what I want to know! The only way you violate somebodies right's is by punching them. I remember from english class a quote, "Your right to move your arm freely, ends before the other persons face" or something like that, but I mean, words anybody could say. Fuck all these fucking people that have a problem with cuss words! Cuss words help express yourself!

jDoG

[pornJester]

This wouldn't hold up in the real Supreme Court.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by pornJester
This wouldn't hold up in the real Supreme Court.

said the same thing...you might even be able to argue that calling him a "fucking pig" is political speech.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

The "Right" always gets over zelious during republican reign...

Funny thing is that guy will probably appeal and file a suit against the city for a couple million.

Ultimatly its those that think they are above the law that cost us tax payers millions every year.

Case and point? George Bush II.

[KRL]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster


and the only one who committed a real crime was....drum roll please...YOU!

Well don't know about your state, but down here if an adult tells a minor 7 years old to go fuck himself, he can go to jail.

[VirtuMike]

Fuck that.

[broke]

Some people are so clueless. Read the fucking ruling. You still 'right' to curse in public.



I swear...

These are the same fuckers who would argue that their 'right' to yell fire in a crowded movie theather supercedes the right of the other patrons not to get trampled by a fleeing mob.

[myjah]

my husband was arrested 2 years ago in North Carolina for the same thing: using obscene language in front of an officer. Had to go to court and pay a fine. It was the most ridiculous thing that has ever happened to us.

[Gemini]

The first does NOT give anyone the right to disturb the peace. Pure and simple. Don't like it? Hunt up a country that doesn't care.

It wasn't all that many years ago that cussing someone could result in the local coronor declaring you dead by premeditated suicide or death by stupidity sometimes called death by misadventure.

You cuss and disturb others rights to NOT hear it. Your minor (now a legal issue) infraction can result in a more serious law being broken by someone retaining their right to not hear the children try out new and exciting words at the top of their lungs.

Laws are all about keeping the peace not allowing the childish to defecate from the mouth.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster


and the only one who committed a real crime was....drum roll please...YOU!

KRL did the right thing.

Freedom of speech is to protect your right to criticize the govt without fear of being jailed or killed, not to protect some punk's right to swear in front of little kids and tell them to go fuck themselves.

[theking]

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction


You have no right to not be offended.

In Europe some countries have laws against certain "hate speech" and political parties like the Nazi party, because they offend a lot of people. That is not true freedom. When the government starts telling you what you can and cannot say and think, then you are not living in a truly free society.

Saying the words "fuck you" doesn't hurt anyone.

Imagine you applied the same logic to the internet. It's fucking ridiculous and it goes against the U.S. Constitution.

The case will stand. As far as I know this is the law in every city (city ordinance), county (county ordinance), state (state law). Free speech does not allow an individual to disturb the peace...profanity...or combative speech is not acceptable speech.

Speech has been regulated to some extent since the time the ink dryed on the writings of the constitution...and this is as it should be.

[theking]

Originally posted by FATPad
KRL did the right thing.

Freedom of speech is to protect your right to criticize the govt without fear of being jailed or killed, not to protect some punk's right to swear in front of little kids and tell them to go fuck themselves.

You are correct.

[theking]

Originally posted by Gemini
The first does NOT give anyone the right to disturb the peace. Pure and simple. Don't like it? Hunt up a country that doesn't care.

It wasn't all that many years ago that cussing someone could result in the local coronor declaring you dead by premeditated suicide or death by stupidity sometimes called death by misadventure.

You cuss and disturb others rights to NOT hear it. Your minor (now a legal issue) infraction can result in a more serious law being broken by someone retaining their right to not hear the children try out new and exciting words at the top of their lungs.

Laws are all about keeping the peace not allowing the childish to defecate from the mouth.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally posted by Gemini
The first does NOT give anyone the right to disturb the peace. Pure and simple. Don't like it? Hunt up a country that doesn't care.

Using this logic, all public protests are illegal.

It always amazes me when people in the adult industry don't like the U.S. Constitution.

Why do you hate America?

[Rich]

You're talking about your constitution like lawmakers are still following it.

[cluck]

A verbal attack like that is called assault, which is often mistaken for battery. Assault is verbal, battery is physical. You're only usually arrested for battery with assault tagged on but they CAN arrest you for assault.

If they said "I think all cops are fucking pigs" as a general statement that would be OK. The fact that he verbally attacked a specific person makes it assault.

Get it?

[theking]

Originally posted by cluck
A verbal attack like that is called assault, which is often mistaken for battery. Assault is verbal, battery is physical. You're only usually arrested for battery with assault tagged on but they CAN arrest you for assault.

If they said "I think all cops are fucking pigs" as a general statement that would be OK. The fact that he verbally attacked a specific person makes it assault.

Get it?

And you are correct.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally posted by cluck
A verbal attack like that is called assault, which is often mistaken for battery. Assault is verbal, battery is physical. You're only usually arrested for battery with assault tagged on but they CAN arrest you for assault.

If they said "I think all cops are fucking pigs" as a general statement that would be OK. The fact that he verbally attacked a specific person makes it assault.

Get it?

"Verbally attacked?"

Bullshit. If you said "I'm going to kill you!" then you might have an argument.

Saying "fuck you" is not assault and it is protected by the U.S. Constitution. Calling someone a "pig" is perfectly legal and protected by the constitution.

If it was illegal, then every American would be in jail.

The very foundation of the First Amendment is that no person in the United States has the right to not be offended.

I can't believe the acceptance of anti-free speech unconstitutional government attacks on freedom that some people in the adult industry find acceptable.

It is anti-American to think that people have a right to not be offended.

[theking]

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction


"Verbally attacked?"

Bullshit. If you said "I'm going to kill you!" then you might have an argument.

Saying "fuck you" is not assault and it is protected by the U.S. Constitution. Calling someone a "pig" is perfectly legal and protected by the constitution.

If it was illegal, then every American would be in jail.

The very foundation of the First Amendment is that no person in the United States has the right to not be offended.

I can't believe the acceptance of anti-free speech unconstitutional government attacks on freedom that some people in the adult industry find acceptable.

It is anti-American to think that people have a right to not be offended.

Combative speech which calling someone a "pig" could easily be intrepreted as...is against the law in every jurisdiction that I am aware of and has been my entire life.

Telling a cop that you are going to kill him...in the state of California...is not a "might have an argument" but is instead a felony.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally posted by theking


Combative speech which calling someone a "pig" could easily be intrepreted as...is against the law in every jurisdiction that I am aware of and has been my entire life.

Telling a cop that you are going to kill him...in the state of California...is not a "might have an argument" but is instead a felony.

If it is illegal to call someone a pig where you live, you need to move. Why are you living in Iraq in the first place?

[theking]

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction


If it is illegal to call someone a pig where you live, you need to move. Why are you living in Iraq in the first place?

Combative speech should be illegal...it helps to keep in check ones dental and orthopedic bills. No I do not need to move...thank you very much.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by FATPad
KRL did the right thing.

Freedom of speech is to protect your right to criticize the govt without fear of being jailed or killed, not to protect some punk's right to swear in front of little kids and tell them to go fuck themselves.

Sorry but using your logic then the biz you are in is no longer protected free speech...because in your opinion it is only "to protect your right to criticize the govt without fear of being jailed or killed."

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by Gemini
The first does NOT give anyone the right to disturb the peace. Pure and simple. Don't like it? Hunt up a country that doesn't care.

It wasn't all that many years ago that cussing someone could result in the local coronor declaring you dead by premeditated suicide or death by stupidity sometimes called death by misadventure.

You cuss and disturb others rights to NOT hear it. Your minor (now a legal issue) infraction can result in a more serious law being broken by someone retaining their right to not hear the children try out new and exciting words at the top of their lungs.

Laws are all about keeping the peace not allowing the childish to defecate from the mouth.

Gemini as has been already pointed out your "disturbing the peace" exception for free speech could be utilized in just about every protest whether peaceful or not because regardless they all do disturb someone's peace at one point or another.

[theking]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster


Gemini as has been already pointed out your "disturbing the peace" exception for free speech could be utilized in just about every protest whether peaceful or not because regardless they all do disturb someone's peace at one point or another.

Allowances are made for "protest" when the proper permits are obtained by the protesters...without the permits they are guilty of disturbing the peace and are subject to arrest.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by theking


Allowances are made for "protest" when the proper permits are obtained by the protesters...without the permits they are guilty of disturbing the peace and are subject to arrest.

We have already visited this issue during the civil rights era. As if a "permit" protected people while excercising their right to peacefully assemble.

[Gemini]

Hmmm thinking back to the Viet Nam protests that I saw... By golly you're right Eros! They DID arrest people with that very darn charge! Imagine that.

The 1st also protects (to a degree) your right to work in porn... just as it protects your right to say some things...

Just as walking around foul mouthing, you are not allowed to go around flashing centerfolds either. What it DOES protect is your right to do it in the privacy of your home. NOT on the public street.

Or if we have it legal to foul mouth on the street, then its legal to have strippers out there too... right?

Rights are NOT 100% no matter how you try to read them. There was, is and will be restrictions so as to not infringe on others rights.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster


Sorry but using your logic then the biz you are in is no longer protected free speech...because in your opinion it is only "to protect your right to criticize the govt without fear of being jailed or killed."

It was originally there to protect what I said.

It's scope has been expanded, rightfully so.

I doubt it's been expanded to protect the right of assholes to run around screaming "go fuck yourself" at 7 year olds in public.

The adult industry is protected because adults should have the right to view porn if they want. You're an adult, do what you want. Hence, rightfully expanded.

What possible reason could saying obscenities to little kids in public be protected?

Use a little common sense.

[The Truth Hurts]

that fucker should have gotten a beatdown.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally posted by FATPad
It was originally there to protect what I said.

It's scope has been expanded, rightfully so.

I doubt it's been expanded to protect the right of assholes to run around screaming "go fuck yourself" at 7 year olds in public.

The adult industry is protected because adults should have the right to view porn if they want. You're an adult, do what you want. Hence, rightfully expanded.

What possible reason could saying obscenities to little kids in public be protected?

Use a little common sense.

The person who was arrested was an adult who called a cop a pig. That is undeniably political speech. A cop is the government. The first amendment exists, in part, so that the people can be critical of the government in a way that they (not the government) choose without fear of being arrested or punished.

If you can't call a cop a pig, why should you have the right to call Hillary a bitch, Bush an idiot, or anyone else in the government anything other than "sir"?

The Montana Supreme court should be overturned on this bad decistion. They have ruled against the very foundation of the U.S. Constitution.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts
that fucker should have gotten a beatdown.

Do you think you should have the right to call Hillary Clinton a bitch or should that be a crime?

Should your hero Rush Limbaugh be in jail for insulting Bill Clinton during the 90's?

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by Gemini
Hmmm thinking back to the Viet Nam protests that I saw... By golly you're right Eros! They DID arrest people with that very darn charge! Imagine that.

The 1st also protects (to a degree) your right to work in porn... just as it protects your right to say some things...

Just as walking around foul mouthing, you are not allowed to go around flashing centerfolds either. What it DOES protect is your right to do it in the privacy of your home. NOT on the public street.

Or if we have it legal to foul mouth on the street, then its legal to have strippers out there too... right?

Rights are NOT 100% no matter how you try to read them. There was, is and will be restrictions so as to not infringe on others rights.

LOL wow apples...oranges hmmm who woulda thought.

Big difference between someone saying shit, pussy, fuck in public than showing them shit, pussy and fucking in public.

The FCC has already ruled that you can say shit on television as well as fuck but it all depends upon the context and how you use it.

As far as expletives go you people get hung up too much on WORDS. I mean seriously if you get offended because I said in public "oh man I just stepped in a big pile of dog shit," vs "oh man I just stepped in a big pill of poo poo." Then you've gotta get a clue. They are only words describing the EXACT SAME THING.

I have spent the last 10 years trying to teach my nieces that there are much worse things that could be said and in the public's perception they would NOT be "obscene."

[The Truth Hurts]

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction


Do you think you should have the right to call Hillary Clinton a bitch or should that be a crime?

Yes.
Hillary isn't a cop. )

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction

Should your hero Rush Limbaugh be in jail for insulting Bill Clinton during the 90's?

George Carlin are my hero, get it fucking straight.
Fuck Rush Limbaugh.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by FATPad
It was originally there to protect what I said.

It's scope has been expanded, rightfully so.

I doubt it's been expanded to protect the right of assholes to run around screaming "go fuck yourself" at 7 year olds in public.

The adult industry is protected because adults should have the right to view porn if they want. You're an adult, do what you want. Hence, rightfully expanded.

What possible reason could saying obscenities to little kids in public be protected?

Use a little common sense.

The debate here is not about saying something to children.

The debate here is about what you can say in public.

Some kid said something KRL didn't like it. KRL gets involved. Let's not pretend either one of us knows the exact conversation that took place. So then KRL claims the kid told him and his child to go fuck themselves and then KRL physically attacks that person.

And why did this whole confrontation take place? Because this person said something in public. Who knows what that was...and where does it end? When is it justified and when is it not?

What offended KRL might have been the use of the word fuck...what may offend the next guy just might be the use of the word damn.

[The Truth Hurts]

I suppose if some prick got all up in your faces and started calling you a fucking pig you'd hug him and buy the guy a beer and discuss the finer points of free speech right?

The cop shoulda beat the prick down, and put him in his fucking place.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by The Truth Hurts

Yes.
Hillary isn't a cop. )

No she is not...but still the cop is a representative of local government and therefore is not immune. No one is.

The guy called the cop a "fucking pig." I bet he would have received the same treatment if he had just called him a "pig."

[theking]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster


We have already visited this issue during the civil rights era. As if a "permit" protected people while excercising their right to peacefully assemble.

The Federal Government stepped in and enforced "civil rights" in that era.

[FATPad]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster


The debate here is not about saying something to children.

The debate here is about what you can say in public.

Some kid said something KRL didn't like it. KRL gets involved. Let's not pretend either one of us knows the exact conversation that took place. So then KRL claims the kid told him and his child to go fuck themselves and then KRL physically attacks that person.

And why did this whole confrontation take place? Because this person said something in public. Who knows what that was...and where does it end? When is it justified and when is it not?

What offended KRL might have been the use of the word fuck...what may offend the next guy just might be the use of the word damn.

You initially said KRL committed a crime.

I posted a response to that. We both based our responses on assuming KRL told the truth and gave an accurate depiction of what happened.

So yes, I was talking about that specific situation.

[eroswebmaster]

Originally posted by FATPad
You initially said KRL committed a crime.

I posted a response to that. We both based our responses on assuming KRL told the truth and gave an accurate depiction of what happened.

So yes, I was talking about that specific situation.

Yes he did commit a crime...and possibly according to local law maybe the guy who said the obscene word did as well...but since KRL acted his crime out in a vigilante type manner instead of allowing the local law enforcement to handle the situation we'll never know now will we.

My exact quote was:

and the only one who committed a real crime was....drum roll please...YOU!

[theking]

Originally posted by Mr.Fiction


The person who was arrested was an adult who called a cop a pig. That is undeniably political speech. A cop is the government. The first amendment exists, in part, so that the people can be critical of the government in a way that they (not the government) choose without fear of being arrested or punished.

If you can't call a cop a pig, why should you have the right to call Hillary a bitch, Bush an idiot, or anyone else in the government anything other than "sir"?

The Montana Supreme court should be overturned on this bad decistion. They have ruled against the very foundation of the U.S. Constitution.

BS...I repeat that combative speech is illegal in every jurisdiction that I am aware of and has been for my entire life. In addition there are laws that prevent the undermining of a Police Officers authority...as he performs his daily duties...as there should be. There are laws against the use of profanity in public...in every jurisdication that I am aware of...and this usually falls under an ordinance...be it City or County...and this is as it should be.

[theking]

Originally posted by eroswebmaster


No she is not...but still the cop is a representative of local government and therefore is not immune. No one is.

The guy called the cop a "fucking pig." I bet he would have received the same treatment if he had just called him a "pig."

In most circumstances the Police Officer is "immune" as there are laws that protect the undermining of a Police Officers authority when going about his daily duties.