Bush signs a $417.5 billion defense bill

[GatorB]

WASHINGTON - President Bush signed a $417.5 billion wartime defense bill Thursday providing an additional $25 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan, body armor for troops and reinforced Humvee vehicles.

the measure includes money for 39 more Army Black Hawk helicopters, a Virginia-class attack submarine, three guided-missile destroyers and a 3.5 percent pay increase for troops

As we all know there's nothing more improtant when fighting wars in the desert than the need for a SUBMARINE. I heard Al Sadr's naval brigade is one bad ass motherfucking group.

[DarkBob]

we're fighting a different kind of war...

[GatorB]

Originally posted by DarkBob
we're fighting a different kind of war...

well yes, apparnetly Al Queda has a navy.

[MickeyG]

great, more debt for my grandchildren

[DarkBob]

Originally posted by GatorB
well yes, apparnetly Al Queda has a navy.

we don't yet know the full capabilites of Al Queda, but God will let Bush know when the time is right

[Peaches]

And I bet the complainers are the same ones who want the soldiers to make more money and have the best equipment possible!

[GatorB]

Originally posted by Peaches
And I bet the complainers are the same ones who want the soldiers to make more money and have the best equipment possible!

And...? Please remove Bush cock from your mouth. "Adult Webmasters for Bush" is apperntly the most stupid voting block on the planet.

[Gheenz]

It's good the troops are getting a pay increase considering all the benefits, etc. for soldiers that he proposed cutting.

[Herb Kornfield]

Amazingly bad waste of money as countless people sit here in the US without healthcare, jobs or the ability to get ahead.

The 100 Billion+ that has been pissed away on 2 countires that dont want us there could have been used to figure out quite a few problems at home.

1. AIDS research
2. Healthcare for all people.
3. Getting the economy really pumping.
4. Providing really good educations for the children that will be the leaders of tommorrow.

How can the powers that be authorizing this spending not see that there is absolutely positively no return on the investment when funding defense projects such as the ones singed today?

Continuing to ignore the people of the US and their needs will only result in nothing left to govern one day.

[Nysus]

I think a country would secure themselves more by feeding the rest of the 3rd world. At least then the rest of the 1st and 2nd-class world would have no problem supporting the US government in anti-terrorist activities united.

Matt

[MattO]

I'm glad they're taking care of the troops but where does all this money come from? What's being cut?

Kind of reminds me of a teenager at the mall with daddy's American Express card.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by GatorB
And...? Please remove Bush cock from your mouth. "Adult Webmasters for Bush" is apperntly the most stupid voting block on the planet.

Wrong, I'm not voting for Bush or Kerry. People forget there are others on the ballot.

I just love the hypocrisy about people whining about how the poor soldiers aren't being taken care of at the same time they whine about an increase in military spending!

[robfantasy]

417 billion is a lot of fucking money

[GatorB]

Originally posted by Peaches
Wrong, I'm not voting for Bush or Kerry. People forget there are others on the ballot.

I just love the hypocrisy about people whining about how the poor soldiers aren't being taken care of at the same time they whine about an increase in military spending!

No see there is GOOD spending and BAD spending. Increasing soldier pay is GOOD spending. Body armor is GOOD spening. $200 = hammers BAD. Submarines for DESERT wars = BAD.

Hey I hate the 2 party system 2 but WHO is out there? Nader? yeah Nader is why we have President dumbass now. I'd say I agree more the the Libertarians, but I'm not helping Bush get re-elected by voting for someone who won''t get .01% of the vote.

3rd party candidates would be better servered if they used their limited resources getting party members elected to the House and Senate FIRST before trying to put a candidate in the White House.

[hydro]

wow, give tax breaks then pull 417.5 billion dollars out of your ass. Not good.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by GatorB
No see there is GOOD spending and BAD spending. Increasing soldier pay is GOOD spending. Body armor is GOOD spening. $200 = hammers BAD. Submarines for DESERT wars = BAD.

Yes, one forgets that a) unless the war with Iraq is VERY long, this submarine won't be completed while we are still at war with them b) we shouldn't be prepared for battle with anyone else except countries in the desert and c) we only use the military and it's vessels when there's a war.

I vote for who I think would be the best president. How you decide your vote is up to you - that's one of the things that's great about America.

[sperbonzo]

Originally posted by GatorB
No see there is GOOD spending and BAD spending. Increasing soldier pay is GOOD spending. Body armor is GOOD spening. $200 = hammers BAD. Submarines for DESERT wars = BAD.

ummmmm.....I'd like to point out that there are several aspects to this that you have missed

1. This bill was put together and voted on by Congress, the president is just signing off on it. The president can't make any real decisions regarding spending, all he can do is make proposals to congress, and veto (if there is a less than 2/3s majority)

2. On the Submarine issue....it takes years to build submarines, and we have NO IDEA what threats we will be facing 2 or 3 years from now, there are other threatening countries out their that have quite extensive navies. Also...Submarines have been used in all kinds of ground campaigns as, launch platforms for cruise missiles, special operations transport, blockaide and interdiction roles, etc..... I just thank GOD that the people in charge of national defence are not as short sighted and one dimensional as you people are...

[marcu5]

I don't understand how our economy works, can someone understand what's so hard about spending just 3-4 Billion to repair all of our schools! Maybe another 2-3 Billion for free healthcare for every citizen. I'll never understand how people can continue to support either republicans or democrats. Both politicians are filthy rich and don't give a fuck about us sheep.

[BRISK]

Originally posted by robfantasy
417 billion is a lot of fucking money

Yay for debt!

[Peaches]

Originally posted by marcu5
I don't understand how our economy works, can someone understand what's so hard about spending just 3-4 Billion to repair all of our schools! Maybe another 2-3 Billion for free healthcare for every citizen. I'll never understand how people can continue to support either republicans or democrats. Both politicians are filthy rich and don't give a fuck about us sheep.

Taking a few economics and civics classes could help you understand a lot of what you're asking

But here are some hints: The city of Atlanta spends more per child than any other district in GA. Yet they have the worst school system. Private schools spend less per student than the public schools do (and homeschoolers even less), and the teachers make less in salary, but the private schools are almost always provide a better education than public schools. Do you really think throwing money at public schools will solve the problem?

Are you willing to add an additional 20-30% to your tax bill in order to provide "free healthcare" to every citizen? Are you aware that the vast majority of people in the US who don't have health insurance CAN afford it, but choose not to have it? Are you willing to pay extra tax dollars to pay for the healthcare of those people?

[DarkBob]

At least this new bill came with another good Bush quote: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."

[Vitasoy]

Yay! lets burn more money.

[Ironhorse]

These numbers are getting absurd

[Libertine]

Originally posted by Peaches
Taking a few economics and civics classes could help you understand a lot of what you're asking

But here are some hints: The city of Atlanta spends more per child than any other district in GA. Yet they have the worst school system. Private schools spend less per student than the public schools do (and homeschoolers even less), and the teachers make less in salary, but the private schools are almost always provide a better education than public schools. Do you really think throwing money at public schools will solve the problem?

Are you willing to add an additional 20-30% to your tax bill in order to provide "free healthcare" to every citizen? Are you aware that the vast majority of people in the US who don't have health insurance CAN afford it, but choose not to have it? Are you willing to pay extra tax dollars to pay for the healthcare of those people?

Did you pay attention in your economics and civics classes?

One of the main reasons private schools have results that are much better than those of public schools is that the children who go to private schools are mostly children from middle/upper class families. Not all too surprisingly, those children are a lot easier to deal with and do a lot better in school than children from poor parents.

As for universal health care... when done properly (i.e. retaining competitive elements in the system) it wouldn't add 20-30% to taxes by a long shot. Also, those already with medical insurance wouldn't really see a big difference money-wise.
Those who refuse to get medical insurance would see a big difference, but most of those are irresponsible fuckheads who place a huge burden on society because of their stupid behaviour.

[Serge Litehead]

where's that jesus guy when you need him

[marcu5]

Blah, I don't want to hear a political incorrect answer. The fact is the money is there to rebuild the school system but it's being put to other use. It always has, and it's time this shit ends and someone actually rebuilds US.

[Tom_PMs]

Why do people assume that 417 billon for "defense" means more money for troops?

Dont be silly.

The top 2 million income earners in the U.S. got over 1 trillion in tax cuts from this same administration. To revive the economy, lmfao.

Healthcare costs have risen at a rate of 20% or so per year, while incomes for middle and lower class rise at 1 to 2%.

Get in jail Martha, you're whats wrong with this country

(hey, none of it makes common sense)

[Rich]

Originally posted by GatorB
And...? Please remove Bush cock from your mouth. "Adult Webmasters for Bush" is apperntly the most stupid voting block on the planet.

Right up there with retarted death row inmates for Bush.

[mardigras]

Originally posted by Tom_PM
Why do people assume that 417 billon for "defense" means more money for troops?

Dont be silly.

The bill provides them a 3% pay increase.

[Cassie]

Originally posted by GatorB


As we all know there's nothing more improtant when fighting wars in the desert than the need for a SUBMARINE. I heard Al Sadr's naval brigade is one bad ass motherfucking group.

i havent laughed this hard in a while. although i agree with you, that was still funny.

[Stamen]

Mixed feelings on this one, on one hand, its good to support the troops. On the other hand, thats $417 bil that won't get used on something that will help the country directly.

[Tom_PMs]

Originally posted by mardigras
The bill provides them a 3% pay increase.

3% whoa.. that ought to hold them over for about 6 months of increased costs.

Wonder if it even extends to reservists? Usually not. Been seeing stories on news programs about reservists families left behind without incomes or healthcare while spouse is away overseas.

In NY, Hillary is trying to get them rolled into the military system so at least they can go see doctors if they need to while their spouse is in Iraq.

They should use some of the 87 billion earmarked for Iraq. They've only spent about 400 million of it so far.

[marcu5]

tax cuts mean nothing when everything is inflated.

[Firehorse]

That sucks when there are so many Americans who need health care and education!

[freeadultcontent]

Couldnt we of just bought Iraq for that much?

[Doctor Dre]

Bush is giving as much possible at his allies-compagny before he get kicked out of the whitehouse

[Webby]

GatorB:

Bush signs a $417.5 billion defense bill

Obscenity is not a word restricted to "porn".

The current US Admin are an obscenity in almost everything they do - what's new?



PS... I really gave up on em a while back - don't trust them, don't want *anything* to do with em - don't give one fuck about US laws - it's just a rogue regime based on greed and corruption.

Tho appears I'm not alone - seems no other country trusts them either.

[Peaches]

LOL, if someone is truly poor in the US, they get free healthcare. Almost everyone I know and have dealt with who doesn't have heatlh insurance is spending their money elsewhere - nice car, expensive house, going out several times a week, every possible premium cable channel, fancy clothes, etc.

EVERYONE is eligible for free education from pre-kindergarten to 4 years of college

And if you think private school kids are overall easier to teach than public school kids, I can tell you've never gone to a private school! The difference is parental involvement and no amount of $$$ is going to force parental involvement.

[Peaches]

Oh, and the bill passed the senate 96-0

[crockett]

Originally posted by Peaches
And I bet the complainers are the same ones who want the soldiers to make more money and have the best equipment possible!

yes I'm sure that extra $3.50 on the 100 will make a big diffrence in the adverage troops pocket..

[Webby]

Peaches:

LOL, if someone is truly poor in the US, they get free healthcare. Almost everyone I know and have dealt with who doesn't have heatlh insurance is spending their money elsewhere - nice car, expensive house, going out several times a week, every possible premium cable channel, fancy clothes, etc.

Maybe.... in some instances. In fact the US has one of the worst rates for "inaccessable health care" of any western country. The healthcare system is .. run on greed - from the drug corps downwards.

Your supposition that if someone "doesn't have health insurance" that they are "spending their money elsewhere" is probably correct. They can't afford to eat and cloth their families, and prefer to do that than spend money on an inflated and most probably "limited" health care policy.

The US is the highest debt ridden nation in the world from the govt down to personal finance (tho this "culture" is spreading to other countries).

It's only my - hardly worthwhile, worth, but I have little doubt the US is the most ripped off nation in the world - a total fantasyland, where kids still go hungry and people die because of lack of healthcare, yet it is proclaimed as some success? It sure is in some areas, - perhaps my "values" are just different I just don't "value" a load of shit TV channels.

[fr8]

Bush will sign anything that he is told to sign. He doesnt think for himself. lol

[Webby]

BTW.. Call this capitalism or whatever - I gotta admire the "face" to enable it.

Check out a simple "medication" - such as eyedrops. They are sold at varying prices - from just under $10 upwards..

Check out the content of this container.. it has .001% of "eyecleaner" that costs between $30 - $50 per litre. The rest is called water.

If my calculator is correct and the zeros are not disappearing - this means that one litre of fluid which costs about $40 is "packaged" to sell out at $41 million dollars.

The adult biz has nothing on that!!!

[EviLGuY]

Thats over 1600 bucks for every person in the US.

War. Money well wasted.

[crockett]

Originally posted by Webby
BTW.. Call this capitalism or whatever - I gotta admire the "face" to enable it.

Check out a simple "medication" - such as eyedrops. They are sold at varying prices - from just under $10 upwards..

Check out the content of this container.. it has .001% of "eyecleaner" that costs between $30 - $50 per litre. The rest is called water.

If my calculator is correct and the zeros are not disappearing - this means that one litre of fluid which costs about $40 is "packaged" to sell out at $41 million dollars.

The adult biz has nothing on that!!!

cheers cheers.. and that is the exact reason our country will never have a national health care system as long as Big business has a say.

[Webby]

crockett:

cheers cheers.. and that is the exact reason our country will never have a national health care system as long as Big business has a say.

There are not called drug dealers for nothing

The Columbians have nothing on the "real" drug dealers and they remain "legal" and cloaked in bullshit.

You can apply the same stats to almost any medication - from asprin upwards. The figures are just as stunning - tho it must be research and development costs

I first noticed this when I lived in Florida - it "seemed" the costs of basic meds was more - it sure is!! :-) I hate theives and conmen!!

When the US govt actually wrote a clause in a health bill which said... tho we are going to issue billions of dollars of orders to drug cartels, it is law that no person will deal on prices of drugs. ie.. the drug cartels are allowed to charge the govt *anything* and there is no room for price negotiation. That is ... fraud.

[Peaches]

Originally posted by Webby
crockett:



There are not called drug dealers for nothing

The Columbians have nothing on the "real" drug dealers and they remain "legal" and cloaked in bullshit.

You can apply the same stats to almost any medication - from asprin upwards. The figures are just as stunning - tho it must be research and development costs

I first noticed this when I lived in Florida - it "seemed" the costs of basic meds was more - it sure is!! :-) I hate theives and conmen!!

When the US govt actually wrote a clause in a health bill which said... tho we are going to issue billions of dollars of orders to drug cartels, it is law that no person will deal on prices of drugs. ie.. the drug cartels are allowed to charge the govt *anything* and there is no room for price negotiation. That is ... fraud.

What you're failing to realize is that the cost of medical care is high because of what WE have done to it:

Medications: We must test, retest and test again. And then pull the medication and pay out class action lawsuits if .000001% have a bad reaction to it. I also think the patent office needs to get on grip on the pharma patents and not issue a different patent for the same drug with a minuscule change just because the patent is running out. Another thing is how America takes care of itself: There was a recent TIME magazine article about the high cost of prescriptions. The most expensive and widely used were those for depression and high cholesteral. We are a nation that wants to live irresponsibly and then when the illnesses come, we want the government to pay to make us all better.

Hospital bills: Why do you think they are so high? At LEAST half of all hospital bills don't get paid. Ever. Where do you think the money is going to come from? By raising the rates for those who DO pay, which is usually the insurance company.

Insurance: When the hospitals raise the rates to the insurance companies, who do you think they pass those raises to? The person buying the health insurance.

Doctors: Many doctors have stopped accepting ANY Medicaid or Medicare patients. Why? Because they are both such totally hosed up systems. Guess who is going to running the program if we get national health care? You guessed it - the same people currently running Medicaid and Medicare.

Personally, I think health insurance should be required for EVERYONE on a sliding scale. Home insurance is required if you have a loan. Auto liability insurance is required in every state I know of. I have MANY posters on this board say they don't have health insurance, yet they go to all the shows and/or drive a nice car and/or live in a nice home and/or go out partying constantly. I'll see if I can find it again, but I read where the majority of the people in the US who don't have health insurance earn over $50K a year. And you're telling me they are forgoing health insurance in order to pay for food? BS. They are forgoing health insurance to pay for keeping up with the Jones.

I would mind a national health plan on ONE condition: Not only do I get to keep my personal plan, but I also don't have to pay a dime into the system.

[Peaches]

Oops! I meant I WOULDN'T mind a national heath program under those conditions

[scoobydookc]

Originally posted by Herb Kornfield
Amazingly bad waste of money as countless people sit here in the US without healthcare, jobs or the ability to get ahead.

The 100 Billion+ that has been pissed away on 2 countires that dont want us there could have been used to figure out quite a few problems at home.

1. AIDS research
2. Healthcare for all people.
3. Getting the economy really pumping.
4. Providing really good educations for the children that will be the leaders of tommorrow.

How can the powers that be authorizing this spending not see that there is absolutely positively no return on the investment when funding defense projects such as the ones singed today?

Continuing to ignore the people of the US and their needs will only result in nothing left to govern one day.

To respond to the first one, look at Magic Johnson. He can afford to fly to other countries and get the latest treatment, so I would believe the cure is there --- just not here. Just like stem-cell research, it is a good idea --- but NOT for the government to fund.

To respond to the third one, I want the government as far from this economy as possible. Once the government tries to control the economy (trying to make it do something, ha, ha) only bad things can happen.

To respond to the fourth one, and considering this topic... Education. We spend TWICE as much on education than defense; and the numbers keep going up. Are you happy with the product as of late?

[woj]

Originally posted by DarkBob
At least this new bill came with another good Bush quote: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."