2257 Summary

[FightThisPatent]

After going through all the million 2257 threads, reading the many mispresentations and misunderstandings on 2257, and doing alot of talking with legal folk, I have compiled a summary that touches upon a number of issues.

You can read the 2257 summary at:
http://www.2257lookup.com/2257Summary.html

Post questions that were not answered in the summary. I am sure i missed some things. For specific questions pertaining to your business, be prepared for the "see an attorney" brush off. Everybody does their business slightly different that others.


Hope it helps,
brandon

[Global Dialers]

spam

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by Global Dialers
spam

Did you even read the article or was this a post-bot?


-brandon

[junction]

Originally posted by Global Dialers
spam

Cut Brandon some slack. Hes a good guy and is on top of things.

[Jace]

Originally posted by Global Dialers
spam

how the fuck is this spam?

someone is actually going out their way to help people out, and posting his progress on the boards...

seems like one of the most appropriate threads relating to OUR business I have seen all day...LOL...of course I just got on her for the first time today 5 minutes ago...ROFL

but still, come on, brandon is really helping everyone out with this shit

[sixxxth_sense]

spam and a half hehehe

[Illicit]

its only a little spam... mixed in with lots of good info

people really need to start taking this shit seriously

[Mike AI]

What an idiot.

Brandon is the man. He has done a lot for this industry!

[Jace]

Originally posted by ajpiii
its only a little spam... mixed in with lots of good info

people really need to start taking this shit seriously

no, they don't...let the ones get fined or investigated that don't....fuck them...then that will leave more money for us when they drop out cause they are too childish

fuck the idiots, i am all about thinning the heard

[Spunky]

Very intresting read Brandon

[Snake Doctor]

Good article Brandon.

I'm eagerly awaiting the release of your program.

[gornyhuy]

Good read... thank you!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by ajpiii
its only a little spam... mixed in with lots of good info

I believe that anyone can talk about the problem (and some try to scare you about the problem), and some will offer criticisms, but few offer any solutions.

I would be doing a disservice to the readers of my post if I did not give some kind of solution to the problem.

It just happens that I do have a solution to help. There are many people creating new services in the 2257 area, and as I found good solutions, I will be presenting them to people as well.

Like any tool, it's only useful if you use it. Ignorance and misunderstanding is fine for most issues, but 2257 is a federal issue, that leads to a felony... so yes, this is serious and there is alot of misunderstandings of this complex subject. I have tried to explain it in straight talk terms.


-brandon

[freeadultcontent]

Nice article but does not really address to many concerns.

[boobmaster]

Originally posted by sixxxth_sense
spam and a half hehehe

You're an idiot!

[boobmaster]

Thanks again for all the good things you do for this community. I nominate you for GFYer of the year, 2004.

[Illicit]

people who own tgp's are fucked. Although I bet many of them wont bother to change a thing. looks like thumb tgp's have to go softcore or even non-nude to comply. Definately gives the foreign webmasters the upperhand

[Arianna]

Thanks Brandon...very informative and I'll take a closer look at your program!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Nice article but does not really address to many concerns.

Which concerns do you have then?

i covered:

-Webmasters secondary responsiblities
-Content Producers responsibilties
-TGP
-Amateur and solo sites
-CP issues
-Solutions
etc


If i have missed anything, please suggest a question or comment, so that i can add to the summary.

-brandon

[A C]

I just fired my lawyer, thanks!

AC

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by A C
I just fired my lawyer, thanks!

nononoonon.. unless your attorney didn't explain things to you... in that case, get another one that understands 2257.

Information that i have presented and what others have presented help you to ask the right questions to an attorney.

You need to explain how you display your images, and what you need to do for compliance.

There is alot of record keeping you need to do, just to satisfy the current 2257, not to mention the proposed regulations.



-brandon

[A C]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
nononoonon.. unless your attorney didn't explain things to you... in that case, get another one that understands 2257.

Information that i have presented and what others have presented help you to ask the right questions to an attorney.

You need to explain how you display your images, and what you need to do for compliance.

There is alot of record keeping you need to do, just to satisfy the current 2257, not to mention the proposed regulations.



-brandon

Brandon,

hehe I was just joking bro we are planning on releasing some awesome 2257 compliant stuff very soon! Should be good, we at signup4cash are taking it very seriously. I do like your article though, very helpful!

AC

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
Which concerns do you have then?

i covered:

-Webmasters secondary responsiblities
-Content Producers responsibilties
-TGP
-Amateur and solo sites
-CP issues
-Solutions
etc


If i have missed anything, please suggest a question or comment, so that i can add to the summary.

-brandon

Posting rules, 11pt font (who's monitor), basicly all of that (e) section.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Posting rules, 11pt font (who's monitor), basicly all of that (e) section.

You are talking not about the issues and understandings of the 2257 statue, you are talking about specific steps for compliance.

The cop-out answer for what specifically needs to be on a web page is an attorney thing. Granted, they will say the same things over and over to people, but that's their job to convey to you what you need to do.

My focus is on presenting information to understand what the problem is, so that steps can be taken by the webmaster to get 2257 compliant. Being informed of the issues is the first step (in the words of GI Joe, "knowing is half the battle".. doing something is the other half).

The first step after reading about 2257, is to consult an attorney. Spend a couple hundred bucks in having them analyze how you do your business.

Ask them about what tools can be used to help them, or what manual processes that need to be done for record keeping, that also includes what font size, placement, etc that is needed.

No article can be a surrogate attorney. I have seen many people post what they think should be displayed. Copying and pasting from someone else's website is not the answer.

I have already seen people copy/paste 2257.html pages that list every single content producer, despite some not even being on their site.

-brandon

[freeadultcontent]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent


The first step after reading about 2257, is to consult an attorney. Spend a couple hundred bucks in having them analyze how you do your business.

Been there done that, got 3 bills.

Differing answers of course, so I ask what others think in order to attempt to go with what I feel is right.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Been there done that, got 3 bills.

Differing answers of course, so I ask what others think in order to attempt to go with what I feel is right.

I know what you mean... many attorneys will have different interpretations. Somewhere among all of them is a commonality, or maybe it's just the hourly billing

I think i have outlined the areas and suggestions for either a manual solution or a third party solution.

All three of your attorneys should have told you about placement and point sizes of the 2257 disclaimer.. you can read it for yourself within the regs ( for those that haven't read it): (JD's table of 2257 changes)

http://my.execpc.com/%7Exxxlaw/2257Table.htm

75.6 Statement describing lcoation of books and records. (e)

If you have some lingering questions, post up.. i'lll give you my opinion as well as consult with my general counsel on the issues if they are applicable to many, rather than to a specific situation.



-brandon

[Oracle Porn]

If you live outside the U.S. (europe) and host in the U.S. do you still need to comply?

I heared a lot of opinions, I wanna hear your's Brandon.

Thanks in advance.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by Oracle Porn
If you live outside the U.S. (europe) and host in the U.S. do you still need to comply?

If your host is in the US, you are subject to US laws. If they can't track you down since you are outside the US, they can have your ISP shutdown your server and confiscate everything since you would not have appeared before them.

If you have US-based financial transactions (ie. credit card processor), they could go to them and freeze your account, etc.

That's probably the most that can happen, assuming of course there is no CP on the website. (if there was CP, then the FBI would work with international organizations to track you down via information provided by credit card processor).


-brandon

thanx for the good read

[Nickless]

great article, thanks!

a little question, the new regulations ONLY affect hardcore content, so if you do softcore nudes or even non nude sites you don't need 2257 records?

thx!

edit: not for paysites of course, but i mean TGPs or freesites/galleries using softcore.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by Nickless
great article, thanks!

a little question, the new regulations ONLY affect hardcore content, so if you do softcore nudes or even non nude sites you don't need 2257 records?

thx!

edit: not for paysites of course, but i mean TGPs or freesites/galleries using softcore.

current and proposed regulations cover "sexually explicit" content, which covers "hardcore".

softcore doesn't require 2257 if it is not defined as "sexually explicit" (ie. penetration, masturbation, etc)....if you are defining "softcore" as no penetration, masturbation, etc.

as i wrote in my article, what you may have an issue is if a "softcore" image looks under 18.. then you may need to prove that she isn't by a District Attorney inquiry.. so you really should treat softcore with 2257 gloves on to really be on the safe side (and yes, that does sound like a lawyerly conservative/paranoid answer, since that answer about softcore was given to me by my general counsel).

-brandon

[FightThisPatent]

One question you might be thinking.. who is the 'low hanging fruit' that DOJ will pick on first?


My guess is sites that show young looking models on free sites and TGP, especially if "sexually explicit".



-brandon

[pornguy]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
If your host is in the US, you are subject to US laws. If they can't track you down since you are outside the US, they can have your ISP shutdown your server and confiscate everything since you would not have appeared before them.

If you have US-based financial transactions (ie. credit card processor), they could go to them and freeze your account, etc.

That's probably the most that can happen, assuming of course there is no CP on the website. (if there was CP, then the FBI would work with international organizations to track you down via information provided by credit card processor).


-brandon

Once again the US will make sure, that no matter where you live in this world, they have their hand in your pockets.

So for those of you that think that you are not involved in this beacuse you do not live in the US , think again. Unless all of your sponsors are offshore, then you are involved up to your eyes.

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by pornguy
Once again the US will make sure, that no matter where you live in this world, they have their hand in your pockets.

in some part of europe (ie. germany), their laws are stricter than US.

As the EU comes together on laws that apply across all members, issues like 2257 and obscenity will be introduced (and have been introduced).

The US puts pressures on other countries to adopt its policies (*cough* patent system *cough*).


unless you are off on some remote location like vanatu.... these issues will find you.

For those that host in the US, but use an off-shore processor, it's possible that DOJ can go to USA-VISA, that then goes to EUROPE-VISA to have your account frozen.

While the DOJ's powers are within the US, it does have far reaching power in different ways.


-brandon

[FightThisPatent]

for those going to internext:

Don't miss out on the saturday panel discussions:
http://www.internext-expo.com/seminars/schedule.shtml


1:30 - 3:00 Legal Panel

3:15 - 4:15 Industry Straight Talk Panel (i am hosting it).

This is where we can all do straight talk about various issues, like 2257. I picked up a wireless microphone so i can walk around the room to hand the mic out so people's comments can be heard.



-brandon

[Adult Site Traffic]

Fucking great information. Thanks for helping with these issues, we all appreciate that.

[Adult Site Traffic]

One question Brandon, what are you thinking is a "small transaction fee"? Is that per image?

Also, will it (ImageDiff Engine) be able to match images that have been cropped, flipped or created into advertising materials?

[Doctor Dre]

Originally posted by FightThisPatent
Did you even read the article or was this a post-bot?


-brandon

My guess goes for a postbot

[FightThisPatent]

Originally posted by Adult Site Traffic
One question Brandon, what are you thinking is a "small transaction fee"? Is that per image?

Also, will it (ImageDiff Engine) be able to match images that have been cropped, flipped or created into advertising materials?

There are 2 ways that 2257lookup works.

The first option (which i took the demo down since i am tweaking it ) is you can just upload a pic, if there is a match, you get an email that says it found a match, and you pay a small transaction fee (ie. $5). After paying the fee, you get an email that has the info.

This service is more for those that find a pic and want to know where they can buy the set... it identifies the content producer ad/or distrbutor that carries that image, so that you can license the image.

The other way is a subscription service where you sign up to have your site spidered. This service would be a yearly service, with scans done once a quarter (can be done more if desired for a higher price).

Tentative pricing is $100/domain per year.. which is based on a number of images (haven't figured it out yet).

For sites that have one big server and many domain that point to the server, the pricing will be based on number of images (ie. $100 for every 50,000 images, etc).

I'll have more details at Internext.


If you crop an image, then a match won't be found. If you resize an image, it can be found. Flipped images can be found. Composite images (taking several different images and creating a new image) can't be found. Images that have watermarking added to the image (ie. the website url) can be found for a match.




-brandon

[FightThisPatent]

Here's another disturbing 2257 thought:

Banners and advertisements that are sexually explicit (and you know you;ve seen those animated insertions) could be technically required to have 2257 statements.


-brandon

summary of 2257 issues: http://www.2257lookup.com/2257Summary.html

[Cman]

I'm Canadian and host in the US. Above you said you thought the most they could do was shut my site down.

So does that mean that I won't be arrested and/or put in jail? There is no legal action they can take against foreign citizens?

What if I move my hosting to Canada? Would I be safe then?

Does 2257 only apply to hardcore pictures? If you just have regular nudes with no penetration or masturbation, just the model laying there (ie. Playboy style) is that sort of picture exempt from this law? Is it ok to have that type of content without documentation?

[Ray@TastyDollars]

Originally posted by exp0sed
I'm Canadian and host in the US. Above you said you thought the most they could do was shut my site down.

So does that mean that I won't be arrested and/or put in jail? There is no legal action they can take against foreign citizens?

What if I move my hosting to Canada? Would I be safe then?

Does 2257 only apply to hardcore pictures? If you just have regular nudes with no penetration or masturbation, just the model laying there (ie. Playboy style) is that sort of picture exempt from this law? Is it ok to have that type of content without documentation?

IIIIIIf the law does pass, why dont you just get legal? I've been doing some research Its realy not that hard. For sponsors that wont supply docs just buy some cheap content and reaplace it with that. I know its alot of work, I got 3+ years of galleries I need to modify...again..IF the law passes.

Good luck

[Rochard]

Your page says......

"The model ID must be a US driver's license or a passport. Foreign drivers license will not work."

But if I recall the new law states that "ID accepted by the US State Department" is accepted.

It's only later that you say....
"Foreign content producers need to have a passport as the ID, not a country driver's license."

2257 Doesn't apply to most of us - How many of us have "sexually explicit" content as defined by law?

I honestly believe that if "they" come to you and say "I need to see the ID of the girl in this picture"..... You'll need to produce the model's real name, stage name, date of birth, and legal ID in a reasonable amount of time...... And you'll be fine.