So this Model Fucks me over, it's time for a little payback (cool Pic) - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Pleasurepays · 10-02-2004, 04:25 PM

100 shitty photographers.

Liquid_cash · 10-02-2004, 04:37 PM

This was one I shot which is one of Sylvia's first shoots.

Eva

My good friend Casandra

Anita

Obviously Mr Sly and James I am not up to your standard of photography.

Sly · 10-02-2004, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquid_cash
I dont care either way if the model's boyfriend is on set. I have shot for Hustler and years ago when Suze Randalls was in the UK used to shoot with her. I have shot for Playboy, Penhouse, Hustler to name but a few. A photo shoot was supposed to be a photoshoot not an chance for the photographer to fuck the model. If she feels easier was her guy on the set then so be it. If anything it makes for better photos as she is at ease and not stressing.

edit - "I dont care either way if the model is on set." - must make a note it does help if the model is on the set!

Ah, just going on what I've heard. Guess different people have different rules.

Sly · 10-02-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquid_cash
Obviously Mr Sly and James I am not up to your standard of photography.

Nope, great stuff. I usually prefer that style.

mary34d · 10-02-2004, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquid_cash

This was one I shot which is one of Sylvia's first shoots.

Eva

My good friend Casandra

Anita

Obviously Mr Sly and James I am not up to your standard of photography.

nice

emthree · 10-02-2004, 04:42 PM

You typed too fucking much

I cannot belive people who continues to convince people even after the story is told. boo fucking hoo

sltr · 10-02-2004, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mary34d
btw...$200 is not an expensive hotel....a least not in miami

don't be an idiot-

austin does not equal miami

James Greuel · 10-02-2004, 04:45 PM

liquid thats good work, but for my market it would not work at all.
The markets I shoot for are the opposite of that. It's not that I could not shoot that. But that's not the market I shoot for.

And I have no problem with boyfriends, I have several models I shoot with who I am happy to have along.

But take my word for it, if you had to put up withthis one, you would have had him escorted off the set, and cancelled the shoot.

Now don't tell me you never had that happen. Not if you have been doing it this long. Be honest.

James

Liquid_cash · 10-02-2004, 05:01 PM

I am to greedy to waste money so no I dont cancel shoots. i always managed to salvage something. I would have atleast got to the hotel. The thing with me is that I like buying models cabs, food etc. I like them to know that when they are with me they are treated like royalty. That way they always come back.

FTVGirls · 10-02-2004, 05:35 PM

OMP models are a waste of time; I never bother with that site to actually recruit. The ones who contact me there are not FTV material, and ask for way too much money.

Hey James Greuel, I know the Magic Moments/Promotions/VMC guys

Vendzilla · 10-02-2004, 07:13 PM

Well alot of people from here must be voting because your girl is a head, yeah I voted, she was better looking any ways!a

James Greuel · 10-02-2004, 10:37 PM

Hey Mr FTV
My biggest competition. LOL

Hey James Greuel, I know the Magic Moments/Promotions/VMC guys

so why don't you post that I have shot 70 solo girl vids for them, and my work is in 17 out of 25 of their best of editions?

More folks know what my condo looks like from the background than I do. LOL

Thanks for posting. And Thanks everybody who voted.

I really do appreciate it, and I am setting up affiliate programs for my new sites , and some of you will be hearing from me.

Some of you won't, .

hate the player, not the game

word

James

p.s. Has anybody seen the video I did with pimpadelic in it?

Paul Markham · 10-02-2004, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by imageman

In the last year we have hired or tried to hire from many web sites that purport to be managers or agency's, i won't post names ( yet ) but the last 3 we tried, who had some excellent models didn't even have the business acumen to reply to our offers of work. These models are cute enough to work almost daily but with this sort of management i doubt they work one day a month ?

We found that a lot of these sites are only to get the girls to pay money to be submitted, they don't have some of the girls and no intentions of sending models.

Paul Markham · 10-02-2004, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James Greuel
Liquid,
I have been making a full time living from this biz since 91. I was willing to cut some slack, I always am. But when I get played I call it like it is. The girl is not shy, and she is the one who stomped off when I would not cough up cash on the spot before she did any work. As for her appearence, the deal was she would show up ready to shoot.

Now I can understand make up, but not having showered at least? It's obvious that some of the recent posters have no idea what it's like to put up with some of the talent out there these days. Then there's the pros who are a joy to work with.

Bash me all you want, it won't change the facts. If you think she is all that you trying hiring her.

J.

What ever you haver been doing since 91 you have not been selling pictures to magazines or videos.

Because the samples you have posted are simply not good enough. Which shows to me you do not know what is good and what is not and in 13 years shooting you would have learnt that.

Also your equipment is not good enough for a pro. More I read this more I smell BS.

Prove me wrong and post a link to your site and I will tell you how long you/ve been shooting.

This proves how long I've been shooting, crap stuff but WTF, it's still better than anything you posted.

Paul Markham · 10-02-2004, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pleasurepays
am i the only one that happened to notice that his photography sucks ass?

Nope, but how long did it take before all these porn pros spotted it, that's the saddest part of this thread.

Paul Markham · 10-02-2004, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James Greuel
yeah liquid, you sure got my number. I spent ten years learning this business, been in it another 14, shot over seven hundred models and in all that time I have fucked none of my models. I have turned down more than a few though.

If your going to comment, read the thread first. The model was supposed to show up at noon with her Mom. The only problem I had with the boyfriend was trusting him around expensive camera gear. Like I said, if you don't know anything about this end of the business, you just don't know.

I would have turned down sex with the model, I was there to make two grand in 24 hours, that's what gets me excited. She would have made about half that, had she been serious about working. To some of us this is how we make a living. I get laid on my own time.

You just confirmed it,

YOU ARE A WANNABE

I know more porn shooters than anyone here, real pro's who sell to Hustler, Penthouse, Playboy, Private, Wicked, etc. Not one of them could ever say they have never fucked a model. We create porn in a sexy atmosphere, we get turned on, the model get?s turned on, it happens. We don't force them because we don't have to.

My mate Bob Twigg was an assistant to David Bailey, he was told there are two rules he if wanted to keep his job, do not take pictures or fuck his models, that?s David?s job.

Now look at all the shooters who are married to ex models, dating ex models or were ex models and taught by a shooter. Too many to list.

Do pornographers sleep with models?

Does a bear shit in the woods?

venus · 10-03-2004, 12:06 AM

whats the URL for OMP ?

Kevin2 · 10-03-2004, 12:27 AM

voted

mary34d · 10-03-2004, 12:40 AM

wtf did this thread go to 3 pages

gwilkins · 10-03-2004, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by venus
whats the URL for OMP ?

onemodelplace.com

Pleasurepays · 10-03-2004, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by emthree
You typed too fucking much

I cannot belive people who continues to convince people even after the story is told. boo fucking hoo

hehe

here's a little psych 101 for you.

innocent people deny.

liars try to convince.

Tricksy · 10-03-2004, 02:03 AM

I voted!

James Greuel · 10-03-2004, 12:19 PM

Gee Paul,
Just last week you were ICQing me wanting to buy my content to resell.
Stupid me I have four hours of Mini DV, and three Cds here that I was getting ready to send for the price we discussed.

Then you gotta go bash me.

Look, you can get all the hot chicks in the world you want who can't speak english.

I'll keep shooting video of the prettiest girls in Texas on video, talking in that drawl, and making it look like their boyfriend shot it.

It's a niche, and it pays my bills.

I spent a whole afternoon once with another photographer talking about how we spent ten years learning to shoot, and now we shoot so it looks like her boyfriend shot it with a point and shoot camera.

It's a certain style, it's a niche. That's what I do.

This thread is about a model who tried to cheat me, and I cut my losses. Nothing more, nothing less.

her losing out on the bikini contest costs her about two grand, about what she cost me.

fair is fair.

But Paul, I won't be letting you rep me after this, thanks.

James

TweetyBird · 10-03-2004, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NoCarrier
Never trust trannies

worthy advice. thank you

kmanrox · 10-03-2004, 02:16 PM

god i love sluts.

pxxx · 10-03-2004, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ella

ROFLMAO

Ella you are hilarious. That was too funny for my asking.

Liquid_cash · 10-03-2004, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James Greuel

I spent a whole afternoon once with another photographer talking about how we spent ten years learning to shoot, and now we shoot so it looks like her boyfriend shot it with a point and shoot camera.

A whole afternoon learning how to shoot a style? I took ten years to learn how to light properly. I think that is maybe why Paul Raymond pays me over £1m - $1.8m per year for pictures.

So your little niche pays but you can do what I do if you wished.

You are full of shit and know nothing. You will continue to be a nobody for the rest of your life, always blaming others for your lack of success.

I will make a bet with you now, shoot a picture to the quality that I do on this site www.jackselite.com use a model who is world known (as you are big time you will know their numbers) and post it here.

As you can do what I do an you are not a twat like most people think then it will be easy for you.

Your downfall is pending and I am enjoying.

Liquid_cash · 10-03-2004, 02:54 PM

Sorry I misread. I studied for 10 years to ensure I was in the top league. I made a mistake in my post where I say that you spent a whole afternoon to learn how to shoot in a style that is shit.

I do apologise. I will go and clean my toilet with print outs of your pictures as a punishment.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2004, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James Greuel

I spent a whole afternoon once with another photographer talking about how we spent ten years learning to shoot, and now we shoot so it looks like her boyfriend shot it with a point and shoot camera.

It's a certain style, it's a niche. That's what I do.

I think you should of spent more time talking about it because you have not captured it right.

A girl posing for her boyfriend is doing it as a prelude to sex, she has a look on her face that says "Put down that camera, stop messing about and fuck me" you seem to have missed that look totally.

Liquid_cash PRO publish 9 magazines 13 times a year. Each magazine publishes around 8 sets a month and pays $700 to $3,000 tops for a very good boy-girl. Most of the sets are $,1000.

9 magazines x 8 sets x 13 times x $1,000 = $936,000.

So it seems you are being paid twice there total sets budget a year. Probably Steve Colby or Viv Thomas are their largest suppliers, selling them 8-12 sets a month. Are you representing Jack Harrison?

So much BS going down in this thread.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

I spent a whole afternoon once with another photographer talking about how we spent ten years learning to shoot, and now we shoot so it looks like her boyfriend shot it with a point and shoot camera.

You see this is the problem with some here, they look at a photograph a lover takes and just see a bad picture, what they miss is what the girl is thinking.

This whole business is about psychology.

Get the model thinking along the right lines, posing to show those thoughts and the surfer will follow.

It's not a meat market where we lay out flesh, we generate ideas.

Liquid_cash · 10-03-2004, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by charly

So it seems you are being paid twice there total sets budget a year. Probably Steve Colby or Viv Thomas are their largest suppliers, selling them 8-12 sets a month. Are you representing Jack Harrison?

I represent Jack Harrison and he is with me here now. Jack has always got paid more than most people. Even Viv Thomas's cousin will state that they only buy his content as 'filler' content. Viv Thomas is no way there biggest supplier. Steve is one of them then Jack, however Jack also supplies to alot of other PRO stuff.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquid_cash
I represent Jack Harrison and he is with me here now. Jack has always got paid more than most people. Even Viv Thomas's cousin will state that they only buy his content as 'filler' content. Viv Thomas is no way there biggest supplier. Steve is one of them then Jack, however Jack also supplies to alot of other PRO stuff.

Well give Jack my regards, he knows who I am. Last time I saw him was in which London night club at a models party?

I would love the answer to this.

And Jack has been out of the loop for a while and is not the largest supplier at PRO. I will tell some of the editors what you said when I see them in a week or two.

But if Steve is their largest supplier and Jack second, and there are lots of others selling their budget for pictures must be $5 mil or even more. News to me.

Ask Jack about the night club.

PrivateIvy · 10-03-2004, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mary34d
seems kinda weird if you ask me. most models in the biz show up to work in comfortable clothes w/o make-up anyway. i can't believe anyone would expect a model to show up in a tight sexy outfit with hair done, especially just getting off a plane.

voting for someone else in a bikini contest isn't even "getting even" if you ask me

I have to agree Mary!!! Gawd, when I used to travel for shoots with other photographers, I'd hate to think they judged me by the way I looked when I stepped off a plane. I'd be in sweats, ponytail and no makeup! Usually only the surfers imagine that we are all glammed up 24 hours a day, every day LOL

Ivy

Liquid_cash · 10-03-2004, 04:54 PM

Jack isnt out of the loop at PRO. He is over for atleast a week each month and is still going over and seeing David Spencer alot. Neville Player is still bitter that the internet happened and wandering around Earlsfield likea headless chicken. Karen Waterfield and Jack and still acting like a loving couple and drunk all the time. As for your estimates on budget you are so wrong. You are in the minor league of football where as Jack, Steve etc are in the Premiership.

Just wondering do you still sell all that total shit content from John Mason? john and Inet publishing have been hit with a rather large court summons due to John and Inet thinking they dont have to pay their bills.

uchase/webpry · 10-03-2004, 05:26 PM

... boy, I smell BS when I read it and that was 120 post earlier in thiss thread.

James Greuel · 10-03-2004, 10:04 PM

tomorrow morning when some of you wake up

and go to your daytime job

I'll be be getting up around ten or so

Like I have for the last 14 years

I shoot a niche

I shoot it well.

I am a bum with a camera

actually a couple of them

I only shoot stills to make jacket covers for my videos

my point was a model tried to run game on me, and I cost her the two grand she cost me. Thanks everybody for your help.

As for the paint stirrers, your DISMISSED.

See ya later, lets kill this thread.

James

BadBrad · 10-03-2004, 10:28 PM

Voted!

Paul Markham · 10-03-2004, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liquid_cash
Jack isnt out of the loop at PRO. He is over for atleast a week each month and is still going over and seeing David Spencer alot. Neville Player is still bitter that the internet happened and wandering around Earlsfield likea headless chicken. Karen Waterfield and Jack and still acting like a loving couple and drunk all the time. As for your estimates on budget you are so wrong. You are in the minor league of football where as Jack, Steve etc are in the Premiership.

Just wondering do you still sell all that total shit content from John Mason? john and Inet publishing have been hit with a rather large court summons due to John and Inet thinking they dont have to pay their bills.

Now we know you are lying and Jack is not there.

Firstly you did not take those pictures, Jack did. They have his style all over them so as you lied about that we have to really question what you are saying.

You also are out of the loop, well out of it. Neville I assume is working for John Graham in Earldfield, John Graham is part owner of Score.

So Jack and Karen go out and get drunk do they, Karen pays the bills at OPRO and Jack was thrown out of the building for being drunk a little while ago.

David Specer is actually David Ryder and edits two magazines there.

Prove I am wrong about the budgets, so far I have shown you to be wrong on four levels.

One you did not take those pictures, Jack Harrison did, Jack is not sitting with you as he would know the night club, the amount of sets Jack sells to them no shooter sells more than 1-2 sets a month per magazine and the budget at PRO.

You are lying and until you can show us otherwise I guess we have to question what ever you say.

WTF has it got to do with John Mason, stop side tracking a losing argument.

I never said Jack is out of the loop, I said he has been and if you know him you know why.

Paul Markham · 10-03-2004, 10:34 PM

And about Steve Colby, Steve is a very good friend of mine and has been for over a decade.

We earn more than he does, becasue we sell content on the net. Magazines are dying out and any magazine shooter not selling on the Net will go with them. Some had the fore sight to get into videos.

On PRO I've given magazines, set prices, times a year they publish. You've given us the name of the girl who pays the bills and the wrong name of an editor.

fl_prn_str · 10-04-2004, 12:44 AM

Here is a great Yahoo Forum for Adult Models.........

10-02-2004, 04:42 PM	#106
emthree Dialer Kingpin Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York Posts: 10,816	You typed too fucking much I cannot belive people who continues to convince people even after the story is told. boo fucking hoo __________________ • Sell Patches & Pills •

10-02-2004, 07:13 PM	#111
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,200	Well alot of people from here must be voting because your girl is a head, yeah I voted, she was better looking any ways!a __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that

10-03-2004, 12:06 AM	#117
venus Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Phoenix, Az Posts: 3,112	whats the URL for OMP ? __________________ Muscle/Fitness Adult Affiliate Program Since 1997 www.venuscash.com

10-03-2004, 12:27 AM	#118
Kevin2 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 1,429	voted __________________ Webmasters Trade Traffic!!!

10-03-2004, 12:40 AM	#119
mary34d Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Northern Cuba Posts: 3,358	wtf did this thread go to 3 pages __________________ The guys at CJ Bucks will do absolutely anything to get your business. You owe it to yourself to at least ask! Free Hosting, Content, etc. CJ Bucks has it all. Sign up! I'll show you my tits now you show me your traffic.

10-02-2004, 04:25 PM	#101
Pleasurepays BANNED - SUPPORTING TUBES Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: I live in a pile of boogers Posts: 11,913	100 shitty photographers.

10-02-2004, 04:37 PM	#102
Liquid_cash So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 165	This was one I shot which is one of Sylvia's first shoots. Eva My good friend Casandra Anita Obviously Mr Sly and James I am not up to your standard of photography.

10-02-2004, 04:45 PM	#108
James Greuel Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 243	liquid thats good work, but for my market it would not work at all. The markets I shoot for are the opposite of that. It's not that I could not shoot that. But that's not the market I shoot for. And I have no problem with boyfriends, I have several models I shoot with who I am happy to have along. But take my word for it, if you had to put up withthis one, you would have had him escorted off the set, and cancelled the shoot. Now don't tell me you never had that happen. Not if you have been doing it this long. Be honest. James

10-02-2004, 05:01 PM	#109
Liquid_cash So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 165	I am to greedy to waste money so no I dont cancel shoots. i always managed to salvage something. I would have atleast got to the hotel. The thing with me is that I like buying models cabs, food etc. I like them to know that when they are with me they are treated like royalty. That way they always come back.

10-02-2004, 05:35 PM	#110
FTVGirls So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 1,052	OMP models are a waste of time; I never bother with that site to actually recruit. The ones who contact me there are not FTV material, and ask for way too much money. Hey James Greuel, I know the Magic Moments/Promotions/VMC guys

10-02-2004, 10:37 PM	#112
James Greuel Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 243	Hey Mr FTV My biggest competition. LOL Hey James Greuel, I know the Magic Moments/Promotions/VMC guys so why don't you post that I have shot 70 solo girl vids for them, and my work is in 17 out of 25 of their best of editions? More folks know what my condo looks like from the background than I do. LOL Thanks for posting. And Thanks everybody who voted. I really do appreciate it, and I am setting up affiliate programs for my new sites , and some of you will be hearing from me. Some of you won't, . hate the player, not the game word James p.s. Has anybody seen the video I did with pimpadelic in it?

10-03-2004, 02:03 AM	#122
Tricksy Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,601	I voted! __________________ Real-Bucks.com - Real Bucks for Real Webmasters.

10-03-2004, 12:19 PM	#123
James Greuel Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 243	Gee Paul, Just last week you were ICQing me wanting to buy my content to resell. Stupid me I have four hours of Mini DV, and three Cds here that I was getting ready to send for the price we discussed. Then you gotta go bash me. Look, you can get all the hot chicks in the world you want who can't speak english. I'll keep shooting video of the prettiest girls in Texas on video, talking in that drawl, and making it look like their boyfriend shot it. It's a niche, and it pays my bills. I spent a whole afternoon once with another photographer talking about how we spent ten years learning to shoot, and now we shoot so it looks like her boyfriend shot it with a point and shoot camera. It's a certain style, it's a niche. That's what I do. This thread is about a model who tried to cheat me, and I cut my losses. Nothing more, nothing less. her losing out on the bikini contest costs her about two grand, about what she cost me. fair is fair. But Paul, I won't be letting you rep me after this, thanks. James

10-03-2004, 02:16 PM	#125
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,292	god i love sluts. __________________ Crypto HODLr Crypto mining Angel investor

10-03-2004, 02:54 PM	#128
Liquid_cash So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 165	Sorry I misread. I studied for 10 years to ensure I was in the top league. I made a mistake in my post where I say that you spent a whole afternoon to learn how to shoot in a style that is shit. I do apologise. I will go and clean my toilet with print outs of your pictures as a punishment.

10-03-2004, 04:54 PM	#134
Liquid_cash So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 165	Jack isnt out of the loop at PRO. He is over for atleast a week each month and is still going over and seeing David Spencer alot. Neville Player is still bitter that the internet happened and wandering around Earlsfield likea headless chicken. Karen Waterfield and Jack and still acting like a loving couple and drunk all the time. As for your estimates on budget you are so wrong. You are in the minor league of football where as Jack, Steve etc are in the Premiership. Just wondering do you still sell all that total shit content from John Mason? john and Inet publishing have been hit with a rather large court summons due to John and Inet thinking they dont have to pay their bills.

10-03-2004, 05:26 PM	#135
uchase/webpry So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Do you use sex.com's XML feed, try ours and make double the money. Posts: 2,085	... boy, I smell BS when I read it and that was 120 post earlier in thiss thread.

10-03-2004, 10:04 PM	#136
James Greuel Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 243	tomorrow morning when some of you wake up and go to your daytime job I'll be be getting up around ten or so Like I have for the last 14 years I shoot a niche I shoot it well. I am a bum with a camera actually a couple of them I only shoot stills to make jacket covers for my videos my point was a model tried to run game on me, and I cost her the two grand she cost me. Thanks everybody for your help. As for the paint stirrers, your DISMISSED. See ya later, lets kill this thread. James

10-03-2004, 10:28 PM	#137
BadBrad Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 618	Voted! __________________ Your sig chose me!

10-03-2004, 10:34 PM	#139
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	And about Steve Colby, Steve is a very good friend of mine and has been for over a decade. We earn more than he does, becasue we sell content on the net. Magazines are dying out and any magazine shooter not selling on the Net will go with them. Some had the fore sight to get into videos. On PRO I've given magazines, set prices, times a year they publish. You've given us the name of the girl who pays the bills and the wrong name of an editor. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70 Last edited by charly; 10-03-2004 at 10:36 PM..

10-04-2004, 12:44 AM	#140
fl_prn_str Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 5,736	Here is a great Yahoo Forum for Adult Models.........