CHMOD

I was reading, clicking links and wondering why the links weren't working...

I thought my computer was infeced with a virus !

Trixxxia

The idea is a good one. It's the industry we're in that makes the difference. It's a 'survival of the fittest' game and people will not risk traffic/paid advertisers even if it's for the greater good (the less the surfer sees, the more likely he will buy including on your own galleries & the value of your 'paid listings/paid banners' goes higher). The other factor, in everyone's defence, is 'if' everyone would switch, there would always be fresh sites springing up with hardcore to the bone trying to get the dissatisfied 'surfer'.

The industry could definitely start changing their standards by moving towards more softcore thumbs - say 15 - going to larger pictures and the hardcore ones remaining as unclickable - this way, you'd be preparing the surfers for changes.

*BTW, that's working towards a perfect world like dreaming in technicolor*

FlexxAeon

exactly. but....(playing devils advocate here) if enough key players/companies switched and really stuck to their guns, wouldn't a fresh site offering "the milk without buying the cow" burn out eventually?

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AmateurFlix

What the TGP owners want isn't as important of a factor as what the affiliate programs deliver for them to make use of

Most affiliate programs offer FHG's (which didn't used to be as prevalent as they are now). FHG's are made to look like the same style of gallery that gallery submitters have been making, i.e. 15-16 pics, 2-3 links etc, nothing really optimized for sales.

The idea of a gallery way back when wasn't something that submitters would make money from, it was supposed to be a page of free stuff with a minimum of advertising that would encourage bookmarkers, who would hopefully buy something from a banner ad on the TGP, not from the galleries. This is why they have such stupid rules with the large number of pics, the low number of links, very small amounts of advertising, must have tiny headers, can't have pics on an html page, don't use links that say 'more' if it leads to 'more' content on a tour etc etc...

Some webmasters (myself included) have made very good use of the galleries even under these restrictions and gotten them to convert decently in this crippled state, however the fact of the matter is that it's a poor method of advertising and it is intended to be a poor method of advertising. The TGP owners weren't listing these galleries just to be nice and share traffic all these years...

If the paysites would wise up and quit trying to copy this existing standard of gallery for their FHG's, then TGP's would list the other format (whether that is TGP2 or something else) because that is what they would have available to use.

So it's not really the TGP owners that would need to agree to something like this, it's the individual affiliate programs that would need to start making these types of galleries for this to work very well; most sites don't list submitted galleries anymore and don't make their own galleries either, they just use what is available.

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polish_aristocrat

sponsors should offer both traditional galleries and more agressive galleries with less pics, less movies and less hardcore overall + pics/movies would be on html pages

why don't they do it? for some reason they dont care

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Trixxxia

Yes, in a perfect world, it would be - but as history has shown us, the TGP2 movement didn't really 'move'. In fact, it's on or around that time that FHG started becoming a popular tool *I could be wrong, but I believe it was on or around that same time*. So AmateurFlix has a point that a place to start would be sponsors. Again though, we're back to square1 and have to 'all' agree on things changing. TGPs will have to agree with the concept and use them or it will not serve the sponsor to put time/money/maintenance on a tool that's not being used.

But, I agree, there's alot of free porn out there and cutting will help conversions again. As a program though - you can't expect them to cut the regular FHG for the new style from one day to the next either, until the 'new style' becomes the prominent tool used.

FlexxAeon

i used to think the industry wasn't able to make any "sweeping changes"...until i saw how fast everyone became 2257 compliant it was amazing

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Trixxxia

polish_aristocrat, it's all a circle - the FHG is competing with submitted galleries. The FHG is used by the TGP owner so the FHG is competing against submissions - and it has to 'blend' so....

It's demand then supply - if enough ask, it will eventually be something produced more by more sponsors.

FlexxAeon

but if it's demand then supply, wouldn't that put the first move into the hands of the TGP owner? oh well, we're screwed

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Trixxxia

That's legal issues - everyone was put into the pot of going to jail 'unless....' so people had to move and move quick cuz the government was coming in to clean up. If you go to jail, you can't be making money unless you have someone running your show from the outside + you'll be needing quite a bit of money to pay for the lawyers.

This all boils down to a real BrotherHood where enough big traffic people from all areas - TGPs/MGPs/LinkLists/Sponsors/FreeSites/Submitters/HubCreators/Blogs/SEOptimizers/Legal - set standards for the industry on a whole. If the TGP won't accept you unless *insert rule* and the LinkList won't accept you unless *insert rule* and sponsors won't allow *insert rule* and so on......then the industry will have standards, people who don't follow them won't benefit from traffic. Also, it's becomes like 'self ruling' and we won't have to wait for the government/governments to put rules into effect which will affect growth/cause legal issues/taxing to deter buyers/profitability to both affiliates and sponsors alike...and so on

Trixxxia

To a certain extent it does - it's really 'catch-22'.

They'll make it. If you don't use it, it's no use to make it. If you use it but accept other types of galleries, you won't profit from the new way. It's a vicious circle - one everyone should start thinking about and choose a side cuz eventually, when the governments realize that 2257 didn't really change anything on the real Porn world - meaning that it's not use producing/promoting C-P, then they'll find some other way to come in and 'regulate'.

Dennis69

WOW This is a blast from the past... great idea but I don't think something like this will happen till the goverments decide enough is enough and do something about all the free porn out their!

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HaHaHa

AmateurFlix

This isn't true, I have both TGP2 style and standard galleries on my sites. The TGP2 galleries outperform the others. They have since last summer when I first started using them, so that's too long to be a statistical fluke. I'm fairly sure if my site had nothing but tgp2 galleries it would be even more profitable, however people aren't going to turn away from them just because there's a gallery with 16 pics listed next to it. They see the content, they see all the extra ads, and if they like it they will respond regardless of what the gallery next to it is doing.

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FlexxAeon

yeah i understand that it was a whole other matter, in that they had to comply or "get busted"....but circumstances aside, it was still proof that the industry can move in unison IF they're motivated enough

and you make a good point that switching to a TGP2 type promo model would have more than just the conversion benefit. self regulation is something else that a lot of people are barking about but not really biting.

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Dennis69

That was and still is one of the biggest factors with tgp2... back when it big most tgp2's wouldn't trade with regular tgp's because they said they wouldn't bookmark a tgp2... I didn't agree with it then and I still don't agree with it... free porn is free porn!

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HaHaHa

100freesexsites

Stupid idea to begin with.

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AmateurFlix

yeah that makes no sense at all... it's really hard to build a site or a network of sites without trading with some existing traffic sources. For that matter bookmarkers aren't even as much of a concern now as they used to be, with the advent of skimming trade scripts

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PinkElectric

Great idea man!!

As you already said, there is toooooooo much free porn out there!!

Relish XXX

This idea was awesome. Thing is most people look at traffic as their income not convertions. You will always get more traffic going to normal TGPs because their is more free stuff there.

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Pornwolf

It's really a shame that people didn't try this. It is possible to change still, but enough people would have to do it.

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pornguy

Did I just step into a newb board?? TGP2 tried and failed.

People are cheap, and want free porn. So it should be either no free porn at all, or just keep going as we have been.

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FlexxAeon

but the question is "why did it fail?" because the consumer has such a tight grip on the throats of the supplier?

IMO, porn is an irreplaceable commodity, like gas. and if what i learned in econ is right, getting rid of some of the free porn out there isn't gonna make people stop buying porn altogether

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Pornwolf

This is true. I think it is more of an issue of people are scared to try because they are afraid of what the next guy is doing.

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Series

woot, thanks buddy

Violetta

we need some changes in this industry... thats for sure!

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M&A Queen

Zester

fast post:
CUT THE SUPPLY TO FREE PORN SITES (LIKE TGPS AND PICPOSTS) AND THEY WILL DIE.

long post:
we are looking at all this wrong.
we are isolating TGP2 and their good intentions instead of regular TGP and what they our doing to our bank account.
the first step we need to do is to understand that tgps are the problem!


lets get the facts straight:
1) free porn is killing adult webmaster's money (we all know that, don't we)
2) tgp's are the greatest resources for free porn

conclusion 1:
if we all want to make more money we need to kill tgp.

issue: how to kill tpg's? impossible? bullshit, they are already not very profitable.
solution:
every website on the net feeds from traffic sources, and without them - the site will die.
tgp's are not different.
what are tgp's traffic sources?
submitters, other tgp's, paid traffic/spots, se, blogs, linklists

more facts:
1) tgp traffic is shit

conclusion 2:
trading traffic with tgp's will give you next to nothing other than bandwidth burning.
(not even outgoing traffic cause they only want free porn, unless you skim - they are worthless)

final conclusion:
CUT THE SUPPLY TO FREE PORN SITES (LIKE TGP'S AND PICPOSTS) AND THEY WILL DIE.

a lot of top lists (the ones that actually keep their toplist in good quality and keep the traffic productive so they can make sales themselves) are not accepting tgp's in their listings.
a lot of big sites/directories in certain niches (like pantyhosemama for example) do not accept tgps on their listings.
it seems that the better the traffic is on a certain site - the less chance they would trade traffic with a tgp.

let's say you have a very small site that managed to get some SE traffic,
would you be retarded enough to trade traffic with a tgp?
let's say you have a good boot fetish directory with tons of bookmarks that click the sponsors every time you put up some new ones, would you be retarded enough to trade traffic with a CJ?

it's all about keep YOUR traffic quality traffic with which you can make money with.
once YOU understand that, sites that YOU conclude give away too much free porn like tgps, picposts, CJ, or just pages with tons of links to hosted galleries, will have to BUY TRAFFIC and PAID POSTS which will make it not worthy to ever start a tgp.

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Zester

more thoughts I have on this:
why do most porn sites/pages whatever do not link to hate/warez/dialers/virus containing sites? the content of that site hurt their business.
linking to sites with dialers will not hurt your business more than linking to sites with free porn! linking to dialers/annoying chained popups sites will hurt your surfers- linking to too much free porn sites will hurt YOUR MONEY.

we need to aspire for those massively free porn giving sites to be hard to find, so we can first makes sales - then the surfers can find their ways to those sites cause we don't care anymore.
so many copy the same trading rules from one another, why can't: "No TGP/CJ/Saturated free porn" be one of them?

by the way I DO have a few tgp's of my own as well.

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AmateurFlix

^^^
and that is why most people do not take any of this tgp2 stuff very seriously...

my only point was sending normal tgp traffic to a tgp2 gallery will typically increase conversions. eliminating tgps as a traffic source would be counterproductive

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Bex

I like the idea. I hit you on icq

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FlexxAeon

what Zester is saying makes perfect sense, but I agree with AmateurFlix in that simply trying to "kill" TGP's would not work. it's too sudden. a change like this would need to be gradual like, as AmateurFlix said, shifting TGP traffic to TGP2 or TGP2 type galleries

i hope some of you folks that are reading this and have "connections" are sending a link to "players" in the biz :p

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Dennis69

If you look around these days most of the tgp owners that make there own galleries for there tgps are only using a few softcore pics to increase there sales!

As for the traffic if I trade traffic with a tgp site and burn a 1/4 of the bw and make more sales then I'm a happy camper!

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HaHaHa

Zuss

fact: I just made my first sale. It came from a TGP2 gallery with very little traffic.
conclusion: It works, if the traffic is there.

TGP2 did not fail. We're just too greedy, giving away too much content. Yeah, right...greedy. Everybody wants max. bookmarkers these days. If we'd all limit ourselfes, the world would be better.

Btw: There's still a place to discuss tgp2. There's still infrastructure waiting to get used. You just need the will to do it.

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Dennis69

I've still got galleries making me sales back from this thread was first started... alot of people would rather look at their counter then at there stats!

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HaHaHa

FlexxAeon

so, traffic is not king after all.....?

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SCORE Ralph

Is there a set of updated rules for TGP2 I can take a look at? URL pls.

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Downtime

intersting idea!

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#27024067

Trixxxia

Traffic will always be king I think - getting more bang for your traffic is what we have to focus on. Having pretty designs & the best paysites/sponsors won't make you money if you don't have traffic - let's be realistic here.

Knocking TGPs as a traffic source is not reasonable - it is still one of the best places to get traffic and lots of it. It's where most of us (myself included) entered into the business either by submitting galleries or starting your own little TGP along with building free sites.

It's a different traffic channel and has to be understood and marketed to differently. Not sure cutting the supply to TGPs will solve anything - some are big enough to keep it trading within their own networks and they possess the SE savoir-faire to continue to keep their listings on search engines and keep their flow of new traffic. They can even afford their own designers to keep all the traffic - so you aren't really hurting them, you may actually be hurting yourselves - by not having enough traffic to feed your trades.

FlexxAeon

very true. i didn't mean that traffic isn't king in that "we don't need traffic". that would be ridiculous. but the idea that "traffic is king" has seemed to translate to people that getting traffic by any means necessary, in our case - giving out as much free porn as possible - would result in more sales. while that's not a bad idea on the surface, i think that we're starting to see the actual effects it is having on the industry. conversion ratios are falling, we KNOW why they're falling, yet we haven't really attacked the issue head-on in bringing them back up.

as for TGP's, they are a good source of traffic, but I wonder what kind of traffic. now that we know what the business model results in, why do we continue to support TGP's as they stand. if TGP traffic/conversion trends were a stock trend, brokers would be selling it like mad.

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Dennis69

It would be stupid to knock tgps when you can use them to feed your own sites etc and makes sales from the same traffic... that was one of the biggest problems with tgp2 is most owners didn't want to trade with regular tgps and it was one of the reasons that it all fell apart at the seams.

I'm still running a couple of small tgp2's that only list my galleries and they are feed from internal traffic and trades with tgp's and the ratios are amazing!

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HaHaHa

Zester

ok. so we don't kill tgps.

but if you have a toplist, blog, linklist or even a shitty little page that gets about 50 hits a day but very targeted quality traffic: why should you trade with a tgp that will give you crap traffic in return? you should trade with the site with the same quality of traffic

tgp traffic is for galleries and for other tgps.

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Sausage

The only way tgps will die is if they kill themselves. Water flows downhill ... and the only thing that could take traffic from tgp is something that gives more for free. Thats why tgp2 died ... the tgp2's were feeding the tgps with fresh traffic.

Tgp is already turning into a shitstorm, with paid partner accounts priced for maximum profit, rules that simply don't give the webmaster a chance to market well etc. However if profit falls enough then they will self regulate or just die out. I personally don't care .. I moved away from tgp a long time ago.... and as long as it keeps 90% of the get rich quick newbies occupied less competition outside the tgp game.

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polish_aristocrat

wow how much did the industry change since this thread was started....

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zand_stein

you deserve two thumbs up...........

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potter

it's like being in a time capsule

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Zester

by the bump this thread gets it seem this thread is eternal

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GeXus

Any TGP would be stupid to do this... like others have said.. they will simply lose traffic and make other TGPs stronger. This has been talked about for YEARS and nothing will change, this is not a regulated industry... a TGP owner will do what he/she wants, and if their making $50k+/m their not going to risk any loss of traffic to try and let some gallery submitters convert better.

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DamageX

Change is the only thing constant.

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StarkReality

Wow, interesting...but all lemmings are still marching straight to the cliff

Zester

not much, this industry is still killing itself

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Nicky

wow, this thread sure brought back memories, I wonder what happened to Wolfshade, he was the one who showed me how to make a sexshare account back in '99

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