I told you so. Iraq now belongs to Iran.

[CamChicks]

We still haven't caught the fanatic Osama...
- the man who was responsible for 9/11
- a man demanding Islamic Law in all arab/muslim states
- who wants all power in the hands of Islamic clerics
- who hated the secular regime of Saddam
calling him an "Infidel" and a "Bad Muslim"
- who had been calling for Saddam to be overthrown



But we got rid of the secular Saddam...
- a man who embraced western culture
- a man who was our ally until Bush Sr doublecrossed him
- a man who fought against Iran and Islamic fundamentalists
- demonized for killing the same types of people we're killing now
- someone with nothing to gain from another fight with the USA


GW Bush makes vague allusions that these two ideological enemys are somehow working together? WTF! ... completely absurd ... but americans are too poorly educated to understand why that's a ridiculous premise.



With Saddam gone, the extremely religious majority of the population in Iraq are now "free" . . . . free to set up their own Islamic State. (Saddam was the only obstacle to this) "Democracy" in Iraq means another nation of religious nuts voting their even more insane religious leaders into power. When a citizenship is culturally ready for real freedom, they'll have their own revolution (like we did).

Who really has the power in Iraq is perfectly demonstrated by the Al-Sadr standoff in Najaf. The BS puppet Iraq government can't do anything about it - but as soon as the Holiest Of Holy Cleric tells them to cease fire, everyone obeys. Al-Sadr and/or his nominees will be appointed upon the first election and then Iraq will belong to Islam. Iraq will ally with Iran and be protected by Irans shiny new nukes. Iran in exchange for protection and/or proliferation of WMD then gains control of Iraqs oil reserves.



This is the legacy of George W Bush.
Treason? I think so.
Bad news for America? absolutely.

Knocking down the WTC was NOT Osamas goal.
It was simply a tactic. And thanks to GW, he won the game.
Osama says thank you, and "four more years".

[JakeR]

[sexeducation]

Originally posted by CamChicks
TEXT DELETED ...

in Iraq means another nation of religious nuts voting their even more insane religious leaders into power.

TEXT DELETED ...

I don't agree with that.
Maybe I am naive.

Let the voice of peace (global information/opinion) do it's magic.
There will be some bumps - but eventually they will get there.

[hydro]

yep its all fucked up

[crowkid]

Originally posted by CamChicks
We still haven't caught the fanatic Osama...
- the man who was responsible for 9/11
- a man demanding Islamic Law in all arab/muslim states
- who wants all power in the hands of Islamic clerics
- who hated the secular regime of Saddam
calling him an "Infidel" and a "Bad Muslim"
- who had been calling for Saddam to be overthrown



But we got rid of the secular Saddam...
- a man who embraced western culture
- a man who was our ally until Bush Sr doublecrossed him
- a man who fought against Iran and Islamic fundamentalists
- demonized for killing the same types of people we're killing now
- someone with nothing to gain from another fight with the USA


GW Bush makes vague allusions that these two ideological enemys are somehow working together? WTF! ... completely absurd ... but americans are too poorly educated to understand why that's a ridiculous premise.



With Saddam gone, the extremely religious majority of the population in Iraq are now "free" . . . . free to set up their own Islamic State. (Saddam was the only obstacle to this) "Democracy" in Iraq means another nation of religious nuts voting their even more insane religious leaders into power. When a citizenship is culturally ready for real freedom, they'll have their own revolution (like we did).

Who really has the power in Iraq is perfectly demonstrated by the Al-Sadr standoff in Najaf. The BS puppet Iraq government can't do anything about it - but as soon as the Holiest Of Holy Cleric tells them to cease fire, everyone obeys. Al-Sadr and/or his nominees will be appointed upon the first election and then Iraq will belong to Islam. Iraq will ally with Iran and be protected by Irans shiny new nukes. Iran in exchange for protection and/or proliferation of WMD then gains control of Iraqs oil reserves.



This is the legacy of George W Bush.
Treason? I think so.
Bad news for America? absolutely.

Knocking down the WTC was NOT Osamas goal.
It was simply a tactic. And thanks to GW, he won the game.
Osama says thank you, and "four more years".

Thank God the President of The United States can only be elected by Americans, not misinformed, misguided, Canadians and Europeans "who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace when in fact it was a place of indescribable cruelty, torture chambers, mass graves and prisons that destroyed the lives of the small children held inside their walls." (Props to you for that help Mr. John McCain ;-) )

[Mr Pheer]

" a man who was our ally until Bush Sr doublecrossed him"

I guess you forgot about the invasion of Kuwait, which is an ally. There was no doublecross involved in that.

[Martin]

I tried to tell people that Saddam was keeping his thumb on things over there. Everybody always looked at me like I had two heads.

[p3rsian]

iran rulz

[CamChicks]

Originally posted by MrPheer
" a man who was our ally until Bush Sr doublecrossed him"

I guess you forgot about the invasion of Kuwait, which is an ally. There was no doublecross involved in that.

Saddam asked our permission. We said we had "no opinion". He went ahead with military action. Bush Sr doublecrossed him for economic and political gain.

[crowkid]

Originally posted by CamChicks
Saddam asked our permission. We said we had "no opinion". He went ahead with military action. Bush Sr doublecrossed him for economic and political gain.

Really? Bush Sr doublecrossed him! OMG! I haven't heard this theory yet....Been talking to Michael Moore? tell him I said whattup Fatty :-)

[CamChicks]

Originally posted by crowkid
Thank God the President of The United States can only be elected by Americans, not misinformed, misguided, Canadians and Europeans "who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace when in fact it was a place of indescribable cruelty, torture chambers, mass graves and prisons that destroyed the lives of the small children held inside their walls." (Props to you for that help Mr. John McCain ;-) )

I am American.

I don't care if Saddam killed or tortured islamic fundamentalists. If he hadn't been brutal, they would have taken power. As we are learning, it's hard to keep these psychos under control. He also gassed the kurds (a group of religious radicals trying to start a civil war and claim land they have no historic right to) while busy battling Iran.

When thinking strategically, you cannot afford to cry over individuals. I'm sure innocents suffered. However that has nothing to do with what is in the best interests of America.

Thanks to GW Bush, in the absence of someone as tough on the clerics as Saddam, soon we will be facing a United Islamic States who will be governed by the most fundamental anti-western extremist religious leaders - who will control almost all of the worlds oil and share a nuclear arsenal.

[JakeR]

Originally posted by CamChicks
Saddam asked our permission. We said we had "no opinion". He went ahead with military action. Bush Sr doublecrossed him for economic and political gain.

i bet you dont shave your pits

[gwilkins]

Originally posted by MrPheer
" a man who was our ally until Bush Sr doublecrossed him"

I guess you forgot about the invasion of Kuwait, which is an ally. There was no doublecross involved in that.

cough cough, pull up a search engine and do some reading

[CamChicks]

Originally posted by crowkid
Really? Bush Sr doublecrossed him! OMG! I haven't heard this theory yet....Been talking to Michael Moore? tell him I said whattup Fatty :-)

WASHINGTON, Sept. 22 -- On July 25,President Saddam Hussein of Iraq summoned the United States Ambassador to Baghdad, April Glaspie, to his office in the last high-level contact between the two Governments before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait on Aug. 2. Here are excerpts from a document described by Iraqi Government officials as a transcript of the meeting, which also included the Iraqi Foreign Minister, Tariq Aziz. A copy was provided to The New York Times by ABC News, which translated from the Arabic. The State Department has declined to comment on its accuracy.


http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html

GLASPIE: I think I understand this. I have lived here for years. I admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. I know you need funds. We understand that and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.

I was in the American Embassy in Kuwait during the late 60's. The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America. James Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction.

[mule]

Originally posted by gwilkins
cough cough, pull up a search engine and do some reading

Republicans don't read, they just parrot

[CamChicks]

the story continued:

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)

On August 2, 1990, Saddam's massed troops invade and occupy Kuwait. _____

Baghdad, September 2, 1990, U.S. Embassy

One month later, British journalists obtain the the above tape and transcript of the Saddam - Glaspie meeting of July 29, 1990. Astounded, they confront Ms. Glaspie as she leaves the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.

Journalist 1 - Are the transcripts (holding them up) correct, Madam Ambassador?(Ambassador Glaspie does not respond)

Journalist 2 - You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait ) but you didn't warn him not to. You didn't tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the opposite - that America was not associated with Kuwait.

Journalist 1 - You encouraged this aggression - his invasion. What were you thinking?

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - Obviously, I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait.

Journalist 1 - You thought he was just going to take some of it? But, how could you? Saddam told you that, if negotiations failed , he would give up his Iran (Shatt al Arab waterway) goal for the Whole of Iraq, in the shape we wish it to be. You know that includes Kuwait, which the Iraqis have always viewed as an historic part of their country!

Journalist 1 - American green-lighted the invasion. At a minimum, you admit signaling Saddam that some aggression was okay - that the U.S. would not oppose a grab of the al-Rumeilah oil field, the disputed border strip and the Gulf Islands (including Bubiyan) - the territories claimed by Iraq?

(Ambassador Glaspie says nothing as a limousine door closed behind her and the car drives off.)

[crowkid]

Originally posted by mule
Republicans don't read, they just parrot

And Democrats don't research, they just "theorize" (Michael Moore, cough cough)

[CamChicks]

1000 American soldiers dead so that we could give Iraq to the enemy (the jihadists of Islam)
Your president is Osama Bin Laden's fairy fucking godmother. Like a genie granting wishes.

[crowkid]

Originally posted by CamChicks
1000 American soldiers dead so that we could give Iraq to the enemy (the jihadists of Islam)
Your president is Osama Bin Laden's fairy fucking godmother. Like a genie granting wishes.

Misinformed, misguided, mislead Europeans/Canadians, gotta' love em

[Joe Citizen]

Originally posted by crowkid
Misinformed, misguided, mislead Europeans/Canadians, gotta' love em

She's American, dimwit... and far from misinformed. Which, for an American, is quite rare.

[IKE]

CamChick

You are absolutely right. You are one of the few well read intelligent people I have seen on this board. Good for you. You really put a smile on my face today

Are you a camchick? what do you do? send me an ICQ at 197399178

[WarChild]

Iran is only a forced march North for a regime change themselves.

Not to mention the Jews are probably preparing now to bomb them to the stone age.

[crowkid]

Originally posted by Joe Citizen
She's American, dimwit... and far from misinformed. Which, for an American, is quite rare.

Thank you GFY nerd.. this place is one big highschool for christ sakes, hey guess what, HIGH SCHOOL is over...U don't have to be in a big popular group anymore and try to fit in! YOUR FREE! YOUR FREE!!!

[mule]

Originally posted by crowkid
Thank you GFY nerd.. this place is one big highschool for christ sakes, hey guess what, HIGH SCHOOL is over...U don't have to be in a big popular group anymore and try to fit in! YOUR FREE! YOUR FREE!!!

Not if you live in America

[Chichio]

She's right. Iran was one of the first countries to flood Iraq with agents. I bet the Marines were even fighting some of the Iranian Army regulars.

[jimmyf]

Originally posted by crowkid
Thank God the President of The United States can only be elected by Americans, not misinformed, misguided, Canadians and Europeans "who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace when in fact it was a place of indescribable cruelty, torture chambers, mass graves and prisons that destroyed the lives of the small children held inside their walls." (Props to you for that help Mr. John McCain ;-) )

yep

[Joe Citizen]

Originally posted by crowkid
Thank you GFY nerd.. this place is one big highschool for christ sakes, hey guess what, HIGH SCHOOL is over...U don't have to be in a big popular group anymore and try to fit in! YOUR FREE! YOUR FREE!!!

I haven't seen high school since I left in 1988, shit for brains.

But thanks for caring.

[crowkid]

Originally posted by Joe Citizen
I haven't seen high school since I left in 1988, shit for brains.

But thanks for caring.

Well I graduated in '99...I'm younger than you, and I work for myself, not some company in a corporate building....So I think that means I Own you doesn't it????



-Young and living Crazy

[Chichio]

He also gassed the kurds (a group of religious radicals trying to start a civil war and claim land they have no historic right to) while busy battling Iran.

Not to split hairs here because I agree with you about most of your points. The Kurds do have some historical rights to slices of Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. They were just left out of the country carving back in the day because they are fairly nomadic people. It was easy to step on them.

[iwantchixx]

nothing like fresh propoganda

[WarChild]

I predict that Iran will attack Iraq (Either real or staged) and the USA will have to rush to the defense of their friends Iraq.

While the USA is assaulting their troops from the air, the Jews fly in quietly and bomb the shit out of their Nuclear facilities.

[mule]

Originally posted by crowkid
Well I graduated in '99...I'm younger than you, and I work for myself, not some company in a corporate building....So I think that means I Own you doesn't it????



-Young and living Crazy

So how come you still speak and think like a child?

[Joe Citizen]

Originally posted by crowkid
Well I graduated in '99...I'm younger than you, and I work for myself, not some company in a corporate building....So I think that means I Own you doesn't it????

What makes you think you know what I do for a living, boy?

[Tempest]

Great post. I actually believed Bush senior did the right thing in that war. Now I need to go do some new research and re-evaluate my position about it.

[crowkid]

Originally posted by Tempest
Great post. I actually believed Bush senior did the right thing in that war. Now I need to go do some new research and re-evaluate my position about it.

Attack of the ZOOMMMBIESS..... ZOMBIESS

[genomega]

Don't you just love it when left wingers call others stupid.

[Chichio]

Originally posted by crowkid
Attack of the ZOOMMMBIESS..... ZOMBIESS

How ironic.

[mule]

Originally posted by genomega
Don't you just love it when left wingers call others stupid.

Well, even as a right-winger you've gotta admit that this crowkid is a grade A moron

[Webby]

I told you so. Iraq now belongs to Iran.

Can be! If the Iraqi's prefer to deal with Iran - that's their decision.

That's what is called "democracy" - tho Iraq sure won't have that till there is an election and a valid government. Meanwhile, it's called an "occupation".

[Tempest]

Originally posted by crowkid
Attack of the ZOOMMMBIESS..... ZOMBIESS

You're the one doing the attacking and are so mindless you won't re-evaluate what you believe based on new information. Sooooooo.. was that actually a statement of your life moto??

[rickholio]

Originally posted by CamChicks
Thanks to GW Bush, in the absence of someone as tough on the clerics as Saddam, soon we will be facing a United Islamic States who will be governed by the most fundamental anti-western extremist religious leaders - who will control almost all of the worlds oil and share a nuclear arsenal.

While this scenario sounds somewhat plausable if you only take into account religous leanings, Iraqis have a clearly defined nationalism that has been generated out of a generation of war with Iran. While there are crossovers of support within certain sects of islam, and 'invasions' of particular strains of islam (ie. khomeniist shi'ism into iraq which advocates control of government by the supreme jurisprudent), Iraq as a whole and their shi'i contingent specifically would not take kindly to Iran exerting control over their country... at least, not at present.

Now, should there be some sort of external event that crystalizes islamic support across all intercultural barriers, say something like israel attacking iranian nuclear facilities, you'd be in serious danger of seeing a unified islamic presence... one set and determined to sweep over israel and exterminate every jew in the place. Something like that could well be the trigger point for the final overthrow of the house of Saud as well, an event that's been brewing for quite some time.

It's entirely possible that the current administration is aware of these possibilities and are, in fact, banking on them in order to use these events as justification to bomb the hell out of the entire region with some quasi-plausible motive... although Occam tells me that they just lack any sort of cultural sensitivity and foresight beyond the next election cycle.

Juan Cole examines the nuances between the various brand of islam and the complex interplay between them, and has written on these exact same topics. Check his site out: here at 'Informed Comment'

[crowkid]

Originally posted by Tempest
You're the one doing the attacking and are so mindless you won't re-evaluate what you believe based on new information. Sooooooo.. was that actually a statement of your life moto??

ZOMBIEEEEES!!!

[Chichio]

Originally posted by Webby
Can be! If the Iraqi's prefer to deal with Iran - that's their decision.

That's what is called "democracy" - tho Iraq sure won't have that till there is an election and a valid government. Meanwhile, it's called an "occupation".

True. But I think her point was that had the U.S. stayed out of Iraq, both Iraq and Iran might?ve fallen under their own weight. As it stands now, the U.S. will have to ?occupy? Iraq for quite a while in order for a REAL democracy to take hold. You can be sure that if we pull out now Iraq will not resemble a democracy for years and years to come. The only hope we have is that the intellectuals of Iran finally over throw their religious captors before Iraq turns into Iran II, the second coming.

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by mule
Well, even as a right-winger you've gotta admit that this crowkid is a grade A moron

Tell me about it, silly boy probably couldn't even remember the first gulf war. First he didn't have the reading comprehension to read that camchicks was American, now he's whining about zombies... probably part of his "crowkid" "Vampire: The Masquerade" failed goth uni student thing hehe.. Doesn't even have the commonsense yet to understand he's been schooled.. oh well.. they say you don't stop developing until you're 23-24 so he's got a chance yet.

[crowkid]

Originally posted by bhutocracy
Tell me about it, silly boy probably couldn't even remember the first gulf war. First he didn't have the reading comprehension to read that camchicks was American, now he's whining about zombies... probably part of his "crowkid" "Vampire: The Masquerade" failed goth uni student thing hehe.. Doesn't even have the commonsense yet to understand he's been schooled.. oh well.. they say you don't stop developing until you're 23-24 so he's got a chance yet.

WATCH OUT! THIS THREAD IS FULL OF ZOMBIES!

[Chichio]

WATCH OUT! THIS THREAD IS FULL OF ZOMBIES!

How so? Explain your opinion. How does it differ? It's easy to post pics. Well....

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by Chichio
As it stands now, the U.S. will have to ?occupy? Iraq for quite a while in order for a REAL democracy to take hold.

Close but no cigar.. basically we're installing Saddam II (Lite version.. less calories) We don't want democracy in Iraq, because that would mean Islamofascists running the country.. Or at the very least it's an incredible pipedream. We need a strongman in Iraq keeping the shiite's under countrol under a veneer of secular democracy.

[bhutocracy]

Originally posted by Chichio
How so? Explain your opinion. How does it differ? It's easy to post pics. Well....

Don't worry, he's not intelligent enough to articulate a cogent position.. he's just a silly ignorant kid. Let him have his monsters and vampires - hes the crowkid lol.

[Chichio]

bhutocracy,

True dat. A "democracy." I guess it's all relative.

rickholio,

Great read, thanks for sharing.

[CamChicks]

Originally posted by Chichio
Not to split hairs here because I agree with you about most of your points. The Kurds do have some historical rights to slices of Turkey, Iran, Iraq, and Syria. They were just left out of the country carving back in the day because they are fairly nomadic people. It was easy to step on them.

What land rightfully belongs to which group of people depends on what date you choose to begin history. It's been over a thousand years for this particular group, and I think it's fair to say that anyone claiming back land you haven't owned in over 1000 years has no case.

They were trying to start a civil war and Saddam had every legal right to put down the rebellion. All his conventional forces were busy fighting Iran, so he used gas. Boo-Hoo. How is dying by gas worse than dying by bullets? They chose that fight. They were not innocent. They are also religious radicals who kill their daughters if the girl is seen to dishonor the family etc etc. So I don't sympathize.

How would the US gov't react to the same situation here? With flying gunships, of course.