Ibill has handed over our money to some unknow third party - GoFuckYourself.com

gooddomains · 02-11-2005, 11:46 AM

Latest news:
Payout Update 02/11/05
EU Payout Update
We have reached an agreement in principle with a third party trust on the release of our EU funds currently being held. The third party trust will ensure all client funds, both in arrears and future, are managed and paid from a segregated account. Early next week we will be in a position to formally announce the plan, the process to release past due funds, and outline the payment schedule on a go forward basis.

Again, we thank you for your patience. You can be assured that with our new entrusted third party payment program, all payments will be made on time on a go forward basis.

US, RevShare and Catalog Payout Update
Currently we are not in a position to provide a date on outstanding US, RevShare and Catalog Payouts. As soon as we have more information an update will be provided. Please be assured we have every intention of paying our clients.

TurboAngel · 02-11-2005, 11:47 AM

That's not good. I hope you get the $$.

tungsten · 02-11-2005, 11:48 AM

ibill is hopeless

nojob · 02-11-2005, 11:49 AM

Doesn't look to good . Good luck with that.

Repetitive Monkey · 02-11-2005, 11:50 AM

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Manowar · 02-11-2005, 11:52 AM

Shoplifter · 02-11-2005, 02:01 PM

From where I sit this is great news, I guess the Inteca trustee rumour is true.

Pretty curious as to why this is all necessary, but for now I'll be happy with it.

Cassie · 02-11-2005, 02:07 PM

sorry to read that. hope you get what is due to you.

Dawgy · 02-11-2005, 02:09 PM

ibill never had the money. the banks wont give it to them because of how they're mismanaging the funds. you will never get a dime from ibill, but you will most likely get things worked out with the banks.

Screaming · 02-11-2005, 02:10 PM

I dont think you are going to get paid. I hate to say that.

MickeyG · 02-11-2005, 02:17 PM

wouldn't it be good news to have a third party in between. That way ibill cant be stealing anyones money?

4Pics · 02-11-2005, 02:20 PM

looks like things just got worse, since now they lost control of their money.

Pipeline Q · 02-11-2005, 02:31 PM

What I can't figure out is why so many people are still processing with them.

Juicy D. Links · 02-11-2005, 02:32 PM

ouchhhhhhhhhhhhh

DraX · 02-11-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pipeline Q

What I can't figure out is why so many people are still processing with them.

What he said

PerfectionGirls · 02-11-2005, 02:36 PM

Sounds like a trustee has been appointed for there EU operations. So that seems like a safe way for them to say that EU has already filled for Bankrupcy.

A "trust" or trustee is only appointed if you are in receivership or filing Chapter 7.

Expect the same for the US stuff shortly.

Shoplifter · 02-11-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfectionGirls

Sounds like a trustee has been appointed for there EU operations. So that seems like a safe way for them to say that EU has already filled for Bankrupcy.

A "trust" or trustee is only appointed if you are in receivership or filing Chapter 7.

Expect the same for the US stuff shortly.

This is probably true but not necessarily the case here seeing as the funding issue seems to have come about unexpectedly in January. There has been solid talk going back to December that they were in trouble with their EU processor for not paying out to the appropriate clients and amongst other things diverting the EU money to pay USA clients. They may be required to do this at this point by their banks.

The other scenario is that they may file for their USA operations, but need a way to keep the EU setup intact.

Who knows, hoping for the best next week.

Twe Russ · 02-11-2005, 03:32 PM

worthless.....

seer · 02-11-2005, 03:38 PM

wow..............

Jane-Busty.pl · 02-11-2005, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

This is probably true but not necessarily the case here seeing as the funding issue seems to have come about unexpectedly in January. There has been solid talk going back to December that they were in trouble with their EU processor for not paying out to the appropriate clients and amongst other things diverting the EU money to pay USA clients. They may be required to do this at this point by their banks.

The other scenario is that they may file for their USA operations, but need a way to keep the EU setup intact.

Who knows, hoping for the best next week.

You're absolutely right. That is exactly the point.

"There has been solid talk going back to December that they were in trouble with their EU processor for not paying out to the appropriate clients and amongst other things diverting the EU money to pay USA clients."

seeric · 02-11-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooddomains

Latest news:
Payout Update 02/11/05
EU Payout Update
We have reached an agreement in principle with a third party trust on the release of our EU funds currently being held. The third party trust will ensure all client funds, both in arrears and future, are managed and paid from a segregated account. Early next week we will be in a position to formally announce the plan, the process to release past due funds, and outline the payment schedule on a go forward basis.

Again, we thank you for your patience. You can be assured that with our new entrusted third party payment program, all payments will be made on time on a go forward basis.

US, RevShare and Catalog Payout Update
Currently we are not in a position to provide a date on outstanding US, RevShare and Catalog Payouts. As soon as we have more information an update will be provided. Please be assured we have every intention of paying our clients.

so nice of them.

tranza · 02-11-2005, 03:51 PM

I'm just glad they don't own me any money...

directfiesta · 02-11-2005, 04:40 PM

For EU, third party ????

That reads : we lost our merchant account, and we transfered our business to a third party against compensation.....

As for US, where they do owe me money, this is hopeless ... They still take my rebill money, months after months, but pay nobody ( it seems ...).
Cancelling rebills is of no interest: my last new signup was end of september, so all rebills are at their 5th or 6th time.... They wont signup with other processor....

The whole Ibill situation is pointless: put your enerdy in new ventures...

Should I put a blog on:

http://www.ibillsucks.info

NetRodent · 02-11-2005, 05:49 PM

This is certainly an improvement over the previous situation. I have much more faith in iBill's banks than in iBill. Now we just have to wait and see if the pending sale of iBill actually goes though.

GonZo · 02-11-2005, 07:18 PM

What flavor is the Kool Aid today?

slipkid · 02-12-2005, 01:54 AM

Ibill is dead. Awful, but it's hopeless.

xclusive · 02-12-2005, 02:16 AM

they are beyond repair in my eyes unless they are bought out.

Shoplifter · 02-13-2005, 02:16 PM

From the IBD SEC filing:

"Commencing in January 2005, iBill has not received its normal proceeds from its European Union ("EU") processor as a result of Internet Billing Company Europe, Ltd., a wholly owned subsidiary of iBill, not maintaining a bank account at an EU bank. The EU processor had been forwarding funds to the iBill US accounts, but has declined to continue to send money cross border. The EU processor has agreed to send the funds to iBill once iBill has established an EU account. iBill has received approval from Credit Suisse for a commercial banking relationship and the account is pending administrative set up estimated to be up to 10 days. Without the EU money, iBill has a severe liquidity concern. iBill may also experience losses of business due to the delay in payment created by the circumstances."

So it seems for reasons that are obvious they have ditched the EU bank route in favour of an EU trustee.

Webby · 02-13-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

From the IBD SEC filing:

"Commencing in January 2005, iBill has not received its normal proceeds from its European Union ("EU") processor as a result of Internet Billing Company Europe, Ltd., a wholly owned subsidiary of iBill, not maintaining a bank account at an EU bank. The EU processor had been forwarding funds to the iBill US accounts, but has declined to continue to send money cross border. The EU processor has agreed to send the funds to iBill once iBill has established an EU account. iBill has received approval from Credit Suisse for a commercial banking relationship and the account is pending administrative set up estimated to be up to 10 days. Without the EU money, iBill has a severe liquidity concern. iBill may also experience losses of business due to the delay in payment created by the circumstances."

So it seems for reasons that are obvious they have ditched the EU bank route in favour of an EU trustee.

Agree!! But remember who wrote this crap :-) It's the usual "pending" and "estimated" words.

Pity iBill forgot to establish an EU presence in full and open a bank account - assuming this statement has any truth.

Who knows, but it's fair to say iBill is not the type of client that banks would fall over themselves and plead to do biz with.

Any money is safer in the hands of *anyone* than left with iBill to manage, - or mismanage.

It's a pathetic joke that any company did not the foresight to have tools in place for almost all incidents which have happened so far. The ability to "look forward" has severe limitations when left to iBill.

Webby · 02-13-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonZo

What flavor is the Kool Aid today?

It's still "iBill carrott" flavor Gonzo, - and that Kool Aid is dangling from a piece of string at the end of a stick

The Other Steve · 02-13-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Agree!! But remember who wrote this crap :-) It's the usual "pending" and "estimated" words.

Pity iBill forgot to establish an EU presence in full and open a bank account - assuming this statement has any truth.

Who knows, but it's fair to say iBill is not the type of client that banks would fall over themselves and plead to do biz with.

Any money is safer in the hands of *anyone* than left with iBill to manage, - or mismanage.

It's a pathetic joke that any company did not the foresight to have tools in place for almost all incidents which have happened so far. The ability to "look forward" has severe limitations when left to iBill.

Interesting that a company that can't look forward is always "moving forward"

SmokeyTheBear · 02-13-2005, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickeyG

wouldn't it be good news to have a third party in between. That way ibill cant be stealing anyones money?

no its just like me saying , gee mickey i owe you 5k go collect it from juicylinks because i'll have him hold it for me.

Then juicy will say " smokey never gave me any money? "

and i will say " i already gave it juicy take it up with him "

well i hate to break it to you but its called a SHELL GAME and the money will never be under the shell you pick

Shoplifter · 02-13-2005, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Pity iBill forgot to establish an EU presence in full and open a bank account - assuming this statement has any truth.

It's true, and the particular trustee mentioned in another post is the one that has been retained.

IMHO the reason they would not set up banking in the EU previously was probably due to their payout operations being based in the USA. It was just easier for them to do it that way. I'm thinking that the trustee will now function as their EU intermediary and they will not have to go with an EU banking presence. Just a guess.

This is all interesting news, and it can only be good for the industry as a whole if Ibill pulls through.

Webby · 02-13-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

It's true, and the particular trustee mentioned in another post is the one that has been retained.

This is all interesting news, and it can only be good for the industry as a whole if Ibill pulls through.

Inclined to agree!

One of the fundamental problems with third party processing is that there is nada protection/insurance for the clients of these companies.

In a way, they are almost like a bank in that their job is transacting other people's money, - but with no controls or oversight.

In the EU these types of companies are often regulated/audited by govt orgs and, who knows, but that may have something to do with iBill retaining operations in the US where there is no control over them.

Should these proposals happen, it may be the start of an improvement and may also be a scenario that may appeal more to banks to be involved in.

Either way.. I smell an increase in Euro transactions and also new transaction processing models in the EU and out of the hands of the North American VISA banking region - and, maybe at arms length with any card companies

Major (Tom) · 02-13-2005, 06:37 PM

I serioulsy dont know why people are still talking about I bill. The money was gone when it was gone.. Did anyone ever think they would pay? I as sure hell didnt. I had to pay out on some $50k dollars to affiliates. I was infact so sure they wouldnt pay I batch cancelled all my i bill members because I knew what they were up to.
Fuck I bill.
Duke

seer · 02-13-2005, 07:17 PM

If anybody is looking for some stable EU credit card billing options let me know.

Centurion · 02-13-2005, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seer

If anybody is looking for some stable EU credit card billing options let me know.

Dynamite site & design!

yellowmenace · 02-13-2005, 08:34 PM

that's brutal man

directfiesta · 02-13-2005, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Centurion

Dynamite site & design!

Was just updated !

Webby · 02-13-2005, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Was just updated !

I was not gonna utter a word

It was the innovative use of Flash and the overall design that caught me...

OG LennyT · 02-13-2005, 08:50 PM

people still do business with ibill?

hmmmm

tony286 · 02-13-2005, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

Inclined to agree!

One of the fundamental problems with third party processing is that there is nada protection/insurance for the clients of these companies.

In a way, they are almost like a bank in that their job is transacting other people's money, - but with no controls or oversight.

In the EU these types of companies are often regulated/audited by govt orgs and, who knows, but that may have something to do with iBill retaining operations in the US where there is no control over them.

Should these proposals happen, it may be the start of an improvement and may also be a scenario that may appeal more to banks to be involved in.

Either way.. I smell an increase in Euro transactions and also new transaction processing models in the EU and out of the hands of the North American VISA banking region - and, maybe at arms length with any card companies

I agree with you there is nada protection its a flawed model. To start a casino and get a gaming license there must so much money in escrow to cover certain amount of winnings I forgot the number. These third party processors doesnt have to have anything aside, no oversight ,no spot checks by auditors and its scary.

Webby · 02-13-2005, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony404

I agree with you there is nada protection its a flawed model. To start a casino and get a gaming license there must so much money in escrow to cover certain amount of winnings I forgot the number. These third party processors doesnt have to have anything aside, no oversight ,no spot checks by auditors and its scary.

Can't remember exactly Tony, but I think there is some substantial sum dumped on the table - but that is just to pacify Visa. They obviously thought thru the third party scenario and are covering their own ass.

But yea.. agree.. it's scary shit and a biz I'd not like to be involved or responsible for under these conditions. It sounds much better to have accountability and funds specifically tied to client accounts as they are recieved from bankers. It's obviously not what is happening with iBill at this time - the lot seems to be in one big melting pot :-)

Next is a solution for the security of funds within North America - else others, possibly via the SEC situation, may help with an enforced "solution"

Drake · 02-13-2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

no its just like me saying , gee mickey i owe you 5k go collect it from juicylinks because i'll have him hold it for me.

Then juicy will say " smokey never gave me any money? "

and i will say " i already gave it juicy take it up with him "

well i hate to break it to you but its called a SHELL GAME and the money will never be under the shell you pick

The best way to proceed for those owed money from Ibill is to believe that you will never get paid. If you do, well then it's a good day. But don't put any stock into thinking you will. It's like playing the lottery. It's ok to play the lotto but don't live as if you think you're going to win the big one any time soon.

The only other thing is to take proactive action by going the legal route but if you do that, you have to weigh whether or not you think the outcome will be beneficial or just a waste of time with your lawyer benefiting from it all.

Webby · 02-13-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike33

The best way to proceed for those owed money from Ibill is to believe that you will never get paid. If you do, well then it's a good day. But don't put any stock into thinking you will. It's like playing the lottery. It's ok to play the lotto but don't live as if you think you're going to win the big one any time soon.

The only other thing is to take proactive action by going the legal route but if you do that, you have to weigh whether or not you think the outcome will be beneficial or just a waste of time with your lawyer benefiting from it all.

Yea agree!

iBill have enough shit on the table or on the way - either way, it's pay up time or suffer consequences irrespective of whether the company ceases to exist or not. Other action will still proceed even if they do close doors and it ain't good news for the principals of iBill, IBD or PHSL.

The next few weeks are going to be interesting...anything can happen.

V_RocKs · 02-14-2005, 03:02 AM

Ibill sucks on cat shit!

02-11-2005, 11:46 AM	#1
gooddomains Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,127	Ibill has handed over our money to some unknow third party Latest news: Payout Update 02/11/05 EU Payout Update We have reached an agreement in principle with a third party trust on the release of our EU funds currently being held. The third party trust will ensure all client funds, both in arrears and future, are managed and paid from a segregated account. Early next week we will be in a position to formally announce the plan, the process to release past due funds, and outline the payment schedule on a go forward basis. Again, we thank you for your patience. You can be assured that with our new entrusted third party payment program, all payments will be made on time on a go forward basis. US, RevShare and Catalog Payout Update Currently we are not in a position to provide a date on outstanding US, RevShare and Catalog Payouts. As soon as we have more information an update will be provided. Please be assured we have every intention of paying our clients.

02-11-2005, 11:48 AM	#3
tungsten Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,579	ibill is hopeless __________________ VOYEUR /HOMEMADE, HENTAI / CARTOON, Reality, Amateur, Shemale, Hardcore, Cuckold, Celebrity, Retro/Vintage, ect...ALL OUR SITES >> Unbelievable Ratio \| High % of Rebills \| Bi-Monthly Payments (also to E-Passporte) Ton's of EXCLUSIVE Free content & FHG's \|=> GREAT REVENUE $$$ GUARANTEED!

02-11-2005, 02:07 PM	#8
Cassie Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 3,139	sorry to read that. hope you get what is due to you. __________________ ICQ: 309756847 ]

02-11-2005, 02:09 PM	#9
Dawgy Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 5,856	ibill never had the money. the banks wont give it to them because of how they're mismanaging the funds. you will never get a dime from ibill, but you will most likely get things worked out with the banks. __________________ the revolution is coming.

02-11-2005, 02:10 PM	#10
Screaming I can change this!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 18,972	I dont think you are going to get paid. I hate to say that. __________________

02-11-2005, 11:47 AM	#2
TurboAngel H.B.I.C. Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: NC Posts: 30,122	That's not good. I hope you get the $$.

02-11-2005, 11:49 AM	#4
nojob The Original NoJob Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Jerzzey Posts: 3,682	Doesn't look to good . Good luck with that.

02-11-2005, 11:50 AM	#5
Repetitive Monkey Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,505	\| \| \| \/

02-11-2005, 11:52 AM	#6
Manowar jellyfish Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 71,528

02-11-2005, 02:01 PM	#7
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,712	From where I sit this is great news, I guess the Inteca trustee rumour is true. Pretty curious as to why this is all necessary, but for now I'll be happy with it.

02-11-2005, 02:17 PM	#11
MickeyG Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 4,134	wouldn't it be good news to have a third party in between. That way ibill cant be stealing anyones money?

02-11-2005, 02:20 PM	#12
4Pics Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,952	looks like things just got worse, since now they lost control of their money.

02-11-2005, 02:31 PM	#13
Pipeline Q Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,891	What I can't figure out is why so many people are still processing with them.

02-11-2005, 02:32 PM	#14
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992	ouchhhhhhhhhhhhh

02-11-2005, 02:36 PM	#16
PerfectionGirls Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: MI Posts: 4,484	Sounds like a trustee has been appointed for there EU operations. So that seems like a safe way for them to say that EU has already filled for Bankrupcy. A "trust" or trustee is only appointed if you are in receivership or filing Chapter 7. Expect the same for the US stuff shortly. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

02-11-2005, 03:32 PM	#18
Twe Russ Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 3,493	worthless..... __________________ Contact information - ICQ: 7.9.0.3.0.0 · AIM: no roach · E-Mail: roachito \|\| @ \|\| gmail \|\| . \|\| com [Friend Finder - Geo Targeting & Incredible Site Ratio] - [Credit Card Traffic - Make $65 Per Join]

02-11-2005, 03:38 PM	#19
seer Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 280	wow..............

02-11-2005, 03:51 PM	#22
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	I'm just glad they don't own me any money... __________________ I'm just a newbie.

02-11-2005, 04:40 PM	#23
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 29,617	For EU, third party ???? That reads : we lost our merchant account, and we transfered our business to a third party against compensation..... As for US, where they do owe me money, this is hopeless ... They still take my rebill money, months after months, but pay nobody ( it seems ...). Cancelling rebills is of no interest: my last new signup was end of september, so all rebills are at their 5th or 6th time.... They wont signup with other processor.... The whole Ibill situation is pointless: put your enerdy in new ventures... Should I put a blog on: http://www.ibillsucks.info __________________ I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT ! But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

02-11-2005, 05:49 PM	#24
NetRodent Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In the walls of your house. Posts: 3,985	This is certainly an improvement over the previous situation. I have much more faith in iBill's banks than in iBill. Now we just have to wait and see if the pending sale of iBill actually goes though. __________________ "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." --H.L. Mencken

02-11-2005, 07:18 PM	#25
GonZo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Atlanta,Ga. Posts: 3,180	What flavor is the Kool Aid today? __________________ Assclown Bob Rice wants to BANG your credit card! "I am putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage." All the information above is my personal opinion.

02-12-2005, 01:54 AM	#26
slipkid Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 791	Ibill is dead. Awful, but it's hopeless. __________________ Tons of porn sites Sell Adult products on your sites

02-12-2005, 02:16 AM	#27
xclusive Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 35,218	they are beyond repair in my eyes unless they are bought out. __________________ I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

02-13-2005, 02:16 PM	#28
Shoplifter Richest man in Babylon Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Posts: 10,002 Posts: 5,712	From the IBD SEC filing: "Commencing in January 2005, iBill has not received its normal proceeds from its European Union ("EU") processor as a result of Internet Billing Company Europe, Ltd., a wholly owned subsidiary of iBill, not maintaining a bank account at an EU bank. The EU processor had been forwarding funds to the iBill US accounts, but has declined to continue to send money cross border. The EU processor has agreed to send the funds to iBill once iBill has established an EU account. iBill has received approval from Credit Suisse for a commercial banking relationship and the account is pending administrative set up estimated to be up to 10 days. Without the EU money, iBill has a severe liquidity concern. iBill may also experience losses of business due to the delay in payment created by the circumstances." So it seems for reasons that are obvious they have ditched the EU bank route in favour of an EU trustee.

02-13-2005, 06:37 PM	#35
Major (Tom) Boomer Woffen Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Null Posts: 30,262	I serioulsy dont know why people are still talking about I bill. The money was gone when it was gone.. Did anyone ever think they would pay? I as sure hell didnt. I had to pay out on some $50k dollars to affiliates. I was infact so sure they wouldnt pay I batch cancelled all my i bill members because I knew what they were up to. Fuck I bill. Duke __________________ My mother said, to get things done You'd better not mess with Major Tom

02-13-2005, 07:17 PM	#36
seer Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 280	If anybody is looking for some stable EU credit card billing options let me know.

02-13-2005, 08:34 PM	#38
yellowmenace Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,141	that's brutal man __________________ Yellow Menace icq# 322981173

02-13-2005, 08:50 PM	#41
OG LennyT Wall Street Pimp Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 14,345	people still do business with ibill? hmmmm __________________ Tradeking - my online broker \| 4.95 a trade \| make real $$

02-14-2005, 03:02 AM	#46
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,409	Ibill sucks on cat shit!