--would Chuck Liddell have been able to hang vs. Royce Gracie?-- - GoFuckYourself.com

FelixFlow · 06-17-2005, 09:43 PM

how would chuck liddell have done vs. royce gracie, assuming both in thier prime?

would his grappling skills have been up to par to get a possible submission win against royce ?

dunefield · 06-17-2005, 09:58 PM

the gracies aren't all that anymore since fighters now train both on the floor and standup...

10 years ago royce gracie showed everyone that bjj was the way to go but now fighters have moved on and know how to combat against it... not saying bjj is shit but fighters have wised up...

modF · 06-17-2005, 10:00 PM

You can't really be super specalized anymore, you really need to have a grasp on grapling, fighting, as well as submissions.

I vote for Liddell.

Anthony · 06-17-2005, 10:03 PM

I would say Royce, but that is because I'm a Gracie Nutrider. LOL

dig420 · 06-17-2005, 10:16 PM

no Liddell wouldn't get a sub against Royce, not then and not today. He'd beat him by standing up and trying to stay on his feet. If Royce coudn't get the takedown it's very bad news for him.

Royce isn't done, he's still able to fight, and he still has an excellent chance of submitting anyone as long as he can get them down.

dig420 · 06-17-2005, 10:18 PM

You don't see Royce fighting much anymore because the money isn't right (by his standards). He wants to get paid and paid big to step in the ring.

All the Gracies are this way, you have to pay a LOT extra to get them to fight because their name is the best marketing tool there is in MMA, and they know it.

NTSS · 06-17-2005, 10:20 PM

Royce is a bad mofo...But I think Chuck would kick his ass because he's one tough SOB

WarChild · 06-17-2005, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

You don't see Royce fighting much anymore because the money isn't right (by his standards). He wants to get paid and paid big to step in the ring.

All the Gracies are this way, you have to pay a LOT extra to get them to fight because their name is the best marketing tool there is in MMA, and they know it.

On the same hand, you never see any truly great strikers fight either. Why? Because a big card professional boxing match pays a lot more and carries less risk. This is especially true of the very early UFC fights when it was a tournament. What was the initial prize, $25K or $50K? You had to win three fights for that money too. Something to think about.

Anthony · 06-17-2005, 10:21 PM

Chuck is a purple belt in BJJ, btw, and has great takedown defense.

xclusive · 06-17-2005, 10:22 PM

Liddell would get my vote but it really could go either way

dig420 · 06-17-2005, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

On the same hand, you never see any truly great strikers fight either. Why? Because a big card professional boxing match pays a lot more and carries less risk. This is especially true of the very early UFC fights when it was a tournament. What was the initial prize, $25K or $50K? You had to win three fights for that money too. Something to think about.

True, but the top strikers in MMA are pretty damn vicious these days.. the level of athleticism is rising all the time.

dig420 · 06-17-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Chuck is a purple belt in BJJ, btw, and has great takedown defense.

You know as well as I do how a purple does against Royce on the ground. Not to say Chuck is going to be helpless on the ground, but if it goes down there it's Royce's fight and I'm choosing him.

Royce, on the other hand, has NO chance standing up. Overall in that fight I'm picking Chuck, but if Royce can get him down he can definitely win. Guys are really, REALLY good with their takedown defense nowadays.

WarChild · 06-17-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

True, but the top strikers in MMA are pretty damn vicious these days.. the level of athleticism is rising all the time.

Yes, these days fighters are more vicious in general. Like I said, more so in the original UFCs.

cyber_ninja · 06-17-2005, 10:28 PM

chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes

thats why the gracies always want to get rid of the time limits on fights

dig420 · 06-17-2005, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber_ninja

chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes

Royce is a problem for ANYBODY on the ground. It's not so easy to just stand up, especially if Royce has any kind of control position, side mount, mount, even half-guard.

and they want to get rid of time limits because they feel it artificially affects the true outcome of the fight. If they had their way the bell would ring and you'd go until someone was done, no time outs.

WarChild · 06-17-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

If they had their way the bell would ring and you'd go until someone was done, no time outs.

We've seen that, it's boring and it doesn't make for great entertainment. Looks more like a queer love fest with two men cuddling for an hour.

Anthony · 06-17-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

You know as well as I do how a purple does against Royce on the ground. Not to say Chuck is going to be helpless on the ground, but if it goes down there it's Royce's fight and I'm choosing him.

Royce, on the other hand, has NO chance standing up. Overall in that fight I'm picking Chuck, but if Royce can get him down he can definitely win. Guys are really, REALLY good with their takedown defense nowadays.

It's not because he's a purple belt he would have a chance. A purple belt has a working knowledge of takedowns (Which BJJ is weak in), and ground techniques.

Jeremy Horn, who is known for his awesome grappling skills would be a good precursor to what a fight between Royce and Liddel would be.

Anthony · 06-17-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber_ninja

chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes

thats why the gracies always want to get rid of the time limits on fights

Real world fights don't have time limits, refs, or tapout.

Food for thought.

dig420 · 06-17-2005, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

We've seen that, it's boring and it doesn't make for great entertainment. Looks more like a queer love fest with two men cuddling for an hour.

yes, it's not so entertaining to watch, I don't disagree. That's why I LOVE to train BJJ, not too excited about watching it. I hate to box, but I LOVE to go to the fights.

Anthony · 06-17-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

We've seen that, it's boring and it doesn't make for great entertainment. Looks more like a queer love fest with two men cuddling for an hour.

I used to think so back in the early UFC's.

I put it side by side to watching Golf. After I started playing, I got more interested in watching. I knew how it felt to miss a shot, to go into the shit, etc.

Same thing with grappling.

dunefield · 06-17-2005, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber_ninja

chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes

thats why the gracies always want to get rid of the time limits on fights

royce got rorted that way against sakuraba...

if you ask me renzo is way better than royce... he's a pretty decent standup fighter

dig420 · 06-17-2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunefield

royce got rorted that way against sakuraba...

if you ask me renzo is way better than royce... he's a pretty decent standup fighter

Renzo is shot and has been for quite a while, and imho wasn't in Royce's league on the ground.

As far as Saku, Royce quit with a broken calf. What's the shame in that?

Guys like you always try to make it sound like a professional life-long fighter got punked or something by losing a match. At least he got in the fucking ring, and he's been doing it his whole life. Roy Jones didn't suddenly lose all his honor because he finally got KTFO.

Royce fought Saku and he came up short. End of story.

cyber_ninja · 06-17-2005, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

Real world fights don't have time limits, refs, or tapout.

Food for thought.

were talking about MMA not real world fights.

HAPPYPEEKERS · 06-17-2005, 11:01 PM

Royce Hands Down

TheJimmy · 06-17-2005, 11:09 PM

I'd have to give my vote for Chuck since he's a local...

but really, who knows, it takes one good chin shot to end a fight with a 'stand up guy' and one good take down to wipe out another...sometimes with two highly skilled fighters it can really go either way...nothing is 100%, well cept for the obvious shit ;)

. like death, taxes and the .xxx sellout companies

dunefield · 06-18-2005, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dig420

Renzo is shot and has been for quite a while, and imho wasn't in Royce's league on the ground.

As far as Saku, Royce quit with a broken calf. What's the shame in that?

Guys like you always try to make it sound like a professional life-long fighter got punked or something by losing a match. At least he got in the fucking ring, and he's been doing it his whole life. Roy Jones didn't suddenly lose all his honor because he finally got KTFO.

Royce fought Saku and he came up short. End of story.

i think renzo is more better package... royce has basically no standup skills at all and royce definately can throw back hits... in today's mma i don't think royce could keep up with many of the fighters because his lack of standup skills... but hey i'm not saying he's a shit fighter...

sakuraba totally dominated that match... gracie did basically nothing against him...

Vitasoy · 06-18-2005, 12:41 AM

If they both faught now.. Chuck would win. It's hard to compare back then, cause not that many people cross trained in the past.

Vitasoy · 06-18-2005, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunefield

sakuraba totally dominated that match... gracie did basically nothing against him...

Not only that.. Sak gave his back to him at wil, and royce couldn't do anything.

Royce didn't quit but his corner threw in the towel if I remember correctly... and what cause the injury was saks constant leg kicks

Anthony · 06-18-2005, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitasoy

If they both faught now.. Chuck would win. It's hard to compare back then, cause not that many people cross trained in the past.

Case in point, that's what UFC 54 is all about. Chuck is fighting the only man that has submitted him, Jeremy Horn. Which was when Chuck was new, and now has over 7 years of BJJ under his belt.

Can't wait!

dunefield · 06-18-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vitasoy

Not only that.. Sak gave his back to him at wil, and royce couldn't do anything.

Royce didn't quit but his corner threw in the towel if I remember correctly... and what cause the injury was saks constant leg kicks

amen....

xNetworx · 06-18-2005, 04:40 PM

Chuck in his prime vs. Royce in his prime.... I say Chuck by KO

AVPS Zack · 06-20-2005, 08:30 AM

Don't forget Chuck would also have about 20lbs on Royce.

Rounds w/a decision = Chuck
No time limit/no rules = Royce

WebTitan · 06-20-2005, 09:06 AM

i respect the gracies, but, he was king back in the day when no one else could ground fight. EVERY one successful now can hold thier own on the ground, so thier gracie agvantage would be gone in this day and age.

animal mother · 06-23-2005, 02:17 PM

royce would get massacred, end of story.

chuck outweighs him by 25 pounds and exactly how is royce going to get chuck on the ground? he's not exactly known for his takedowns. his only chance would be to pull guard and chuck's just standing up if he does that. people tend to forget that chuck, while making his living with his fists, was a Div. 1 wrestler.

mma is a whole different animal than it was when royce was subbing the clueless and the overrated. not to take anything away from his legacy because he's done a ton for the sport but it's insulting to today's cross-trained fighters to suggest a small, one-dimensional fighter could hang with possibly the best lhw on the planet.

High Plains Drifter · 06-23-2005, 02:27 PM

AM, you speak like Royce hasn't fought since 1995. It was only a year ago that he dominated Yoshi in impressive fashion. The same Yoshi that submitted Mark Hunt and took V. Silva to a decision in his last fight.

In a fight between Royce and Liddell, tomorrow, Royce would come forward with his leg outstretched, wait for Liddell to throw, tie him up and pull closed guard. He's done it on hundreds of strikers in his life. I'm sure that Liddell would find a way to win, since he knows sub defense and he could wait for his spot, but Royce is getting up there in years.

animal mother · 06-23-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnywussy

AM, you speak like Royce hasn't fought since 1995. It was only a year ago that he dominated Yoshi in impressive fashion. The same Yoshi that submitted Mark Hunt and took V. Silva to a decision in his last fight.

In a fight between Royce and Liddell, tomorrow, Royce would come forward with his leg outstretched, wait for Liddell to throw, tie him up and pull closed guard. He's done it on hundreds of strikers in his life. I'm sure that Liddell would find a way to win, since he knows sub defense and he could wait for his spot, but Royce is getting up there in years.

i'm dissecting this post for sarcasm but damned if i can find any.

royce has 4 fights since the turn of the century--a draw with takada, a loss to 39, a sub over akebono and a draw with yoshida (questinable i'll admit).

the "yoshida subbed hunt and lost a close one to wandy" argument not only falls apart due to transitive limitations, but it fails to take into account the fact that hunt was brand gnub to mma and that yosh is a far better matchup for royce than chuck is.

you're too smart for this so i'm assuming you were dicking around and in that case consider me pwned. fucker.

High Plains Drifter · 06-23-2005, 03:05 PM

Maybe this picture will help jog your memory. The same memory that thinks Royce took a draw with Takada. Royce gets no respect because he isn't interested in proving himself against the current elite, he's already done that. He needs bigger challenges to prove the effectivenss of bjj, like take on an opponent that outweighs him by 300 lbs (and submit him). Just because Royce hasn't submitted wandy yet, doesn't mean he can't. He's beyond that in his career.

I don't seem to remember Wandy raining down GnP from the mount on Yoshi in either of the fights they had. Maybe he was injured or something.

AVPS Zack · 06-23-2005, 03:12 PM

Didn't Royce win a decision over Takada in the first round of the 2000GP? Royce dominated Yoshida in their 2nd (1st MMA) fight. He was a victim of his own special rules (if it goes the time limit its a draw.)

Yoshida/Royce are not the same type of fighter at all. Yoshida has gone toe to toe with Wandy twice and has a chin of concrete.

Royce is over 40 I believe since Royler is younger and turning 40 this year.

High Plains Drifter · 06-23-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVPS Zack

Didn't Royce win a decision over Takada in the first round of the 2000GP? Royce dominated Yoshida in their 2nd (1st MMA) fight. He was a victim of his own special rules (if it goes the time limit its a draw.)

Yoshida/Royce are not the same type of fighter at all. Yoshida has gone toe to toe with Wandy twice and has a chin of concrete.

Royce is over 40 I believe since Royler is younger and turning 40 this year.

Yoshi did go toe to toe with Silva on both occasions, but thats the first time I've heard him refered to with a good chin. Maybe he does have an excellent chin, but Silva didn't really catch him with anything that would have tested it. Neither did Hunt.

06-17-2005, 09:43 PM	#1
FelixFlow Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,779	--would Chuck Liddell have been able to hang vs. Royce Gracie?-- how would chuck liddell have done vs. royce gracie, assuming both in thier prime? would his grappling skills have been up to par to get a possible submission win against royce ? __________________ ICQ: 643 339 687

06-17-2005, 09:58 PM	#2
dunefield www.barely18movies.com Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 10,920	the gracies aren't all that anymore since fighters now train both on the floor and standup... 10 years ago royce gracie showed everyone that bjj was the way to go but now fighters have moved on and know how to combat against it... not saying bjj is shit but fighters have wised up... __________________

06-17-2005, 10:00 PM	#3
modF Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,888	You can't really be super specalized anymore, you really need to have a grasp on grapling, fighting, as well as submissions. I vote for Liddell. __________________ I do things skype:themodF

06-17-2005, 10:20 PM	#7
NTSS Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Da Hood Posts: 5,688	Royce is a bad mofo...But I think Chuck would kick his ass because he's one tough SOB __________________ ICQ: 150-803-430 Email: marketing7(at)cox(dot)net

06-17-2005, 10:22 PM	#10
xclusive Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 35,218	Liddell would get my vote but it really could go either way __________________ I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

06-17-2005, 10:03 PM	#4
Anthony Keyboard Warrior Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: One of the outer rings of Hell Posts: 9,653	I would say Royce, but that is because I'm a Gracie Nutrider. LOL

06-17-2005, 10:16 PM	#5
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	no Liddell wouldn't get a sub against Royce, not then and not today. He'd beat him by standing up and trying to stay on his feet. If Royce coudn't get the takedown it's very bad news for him. Royce isn't done, he's still able to fight, and he still has an excellent chance of submitting anyone as long as he can get them down.

06-17-2005, 10:18 PM	#6
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	You don't see Royce fighting much anymore because the money isn't right (by his standards). He wants to get paid and paid big to step in the ring. All the Gracies are this way, you have to pay a LOT extra to get them to fight because their name is the best marketing tool there is in MMA, and they know it.

06-17-2005, 10:21 PM	#9
Anthony Keyboard Warrior Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: One of the outer rings of Hell Posts: 9,653	Chuck is a purple belt in BJJ, btw, and has great takedown defense.

06-17-2005, 10:28 PM	#14
cyber_ninja Twerk That Ass Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lincoln, California Posts: 2,197	chuck would win no problem,if royce took him down,he would just stand back up.royce tryes to make you tierd then submit you,chuck isnt going to get tierd in 15 minutes thats why the gracies always want to get rid of the time limits on fights

06-17-2005, 11:01 PM	#24
HAPPYPEEKERS Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Margaritaville Posts: 7,559	Royce Hands Down __________________ Please Read All Of My Posts In A Sarcastic Tone So You Get The Full Effect!! HappyPeekers - April

06-17-2005, 11:09 PM	#25
TheJimmy ICQ- five seven 0 2 5 5 0 Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10,747	I'd have to give my vote for Chuck since he's a local... but really, who knows, it takes one good chin shot to end a fight with a 'stand up guy' and one good take down to wipe out another...sometimes with two highly skilled fighters it can really go either way...nothing is 100%, well cept for the obvious shit ;) . like death, taxes and the .xxx sellout companies __________________ Investor with 5m - 15m USD to invest. Do you have a site or network of sites earning 50k - 200k a month income? Email your contact and preliminary data to: domain.cashventures (at) gmail.com....Please...no tire kickers...serious offers and inquiries only.

06-18-2005, 12:41 AM	#27
Vitasoy GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 58,202	If they both faught now.. Chuck would win. It's hard to compare back then, cause not that many people cross trained in the past. __________________ [email protected]

06-18-2005, 04:40 PM	#31
xNetworx So Fucking What Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Whore Island Posts: 14,445	Chuck in his prime vs. Royce in his prime.... I say Chuck by KO

06-20-2005, 08:30 AM	#32
AVPS Zack Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 113	Don't forget Chuck would also have about 20lbs on Royce. Rounds w/a decision = Chuck No time limit/no rules = Royce __________________ AVPS ACH Processing for Adult Merchants Fast turnaround on Payouts & the best rates around!! www.avpsolutions.com

06-20-2005, 09:06 AM	#33
WebTitan Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Western NY Posts: 5,114	i respect the gracies, but, he was king back in the day when no one else could ground fight. EVERY one successful now can hold thier own on the ground, so thier gracie agvantage would be gone in this day and age.

06-23-2005, 02:17 PM	#34
animal mother Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cali Posts: 274	royce would get massacred, end of story. chuck outweighs him by 25 pounds and exactly how is royce going to get chuck on the ground? he's not exactly known for his takedowns. his only chance would be to pull guard and chuck's just standing up if he does that. people tend to forget that chuck, while making his living with his fists, was a Div. 1 wrestler. mma is a whole different animal than it was when royce was subbing the clueless and the overrated. not to take anything away from his legacy because he's done a ton for the sport but it's insulting to today's cross-trained fighters to suggest a small, one-dimensional fighter could hang with possibly the best lhw on the planet. __________________ www.upstandingfuckingcitizens.com

06-23-2005, 02:27 PM	#35
High Plains Drifter Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ♠ ♣ ♥ Posts: 2,341	AM, you speak like Royce hasn't fought since 1995. It was only a year ago that he dominated Yoshi in impressive fashion. The same Yoshi that submitted Mark Hunt and took V. Silva to a decision in his last fight. In a fight between Royce and Liddell, tomorrow, Royce would come forward with his leg outstretched, wait for Liddell to throw, tie him up and pull closed guard. He's done it on hundreds of strikers in his life. I'm sure that Liddell would find a way to win, since he knows sub defense and he could wait for his spot, but Royce is getting up there in years. __________________

06-23-2005, 03:05 PM	#37
High Plains Drifter Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: ♠ ♣ ♥ Posts: 2,341	Maybe this picture will help jog your memory. The same memory that thinks Royce took a draw with Takada. Royce gets no respect because he isn't interested in proving himself against the current elite, he's already done that. He needs bigger challenges to prove the effectivenss of bjj, like take on an opponent that outweighs him by 300 lbs (and submit him). Just because Royce hasn't submitted wandy yet, doesn't mean he can't. He's beyond that in his career. I don't seem to remember Wandy raining down GnP from the mount on Yoshi in either of the fights they had. Maybe he was injured or something. __________________

06-23-2005, 03:12 PM	#38
AVPS Zack Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 113	Didn't Royce win a decision over Takada in the first round of the 2000GP? Royce dominated Yoshida in their 2nd (1st MMA) fight. He was a victim of his own special rules (if it goes the time limit its a draw.) Yoshida/Royce are not the same type of fighter at all. Yoshida has gone toe to toe with Wandy twice and has a chin of concrete. Royce is over 40 I believe since Royler is younger and turning 40 this year. __________________ AVPS ACH Processing for Adult Merchants Fast turnaround on Payouts & the best rates around!! www.avpsolutions.com